A Film at 45: Moonraker

0:00 Listen up, Bond fans before you climb aboard the Moonraker with our special guest Van Allen Plexico. We want to let you know about the extended version of this episode that's available right now on our Patreon and it's absolutely free. A Film at forty five's Moonraker, The Plexico cut is packed with an extra forty two minutes that's more coverage of the music, the stunts, the henchman, and the gadgets of James Bond, as well as some other fun surprises, and again it's free. Go to patreon dot com slash a Film by podcast and sign up as a free member now, or download the Patreon app and start listening. Hello everyone, and welcome back to nineteen seventy nine with a Film by Podcasts limited series A Film at forty five. David Burns is on assignment this week. I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Sky Hoffman. As usual, we're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems that we can't stop watching. In this episode, we're boldly going where no Bond has gone before with Roger Morris, one of a kind space odyssey, Moonraker, my name is bon James Bond.

1:12 Look after mister Bond, see that some harm comes to him. Despite your efforts, my finely wrought dream approaches its fulfillment. The human race as you know it will cease to exist. Your dream, whatever sort of flight there it is, has n Strakes. There's no way we could pilot this episode without a Bond expert on our crew, and Scott, I want you to look after this guest and see that some harm comes to him. Van Allen Plexico. Van is a noted author and the host of several podcasts, including on Her Majesty's Secret Podcast, and we were very excited to have him with us. Van, Welcome to the Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me aboard. It's very very exciting. I'm really looking forward to talking about a bond that means a lot to me. We'll see how in just a little bit. But when did you first see Moonraker? I saw a Moonraker summer of nineteen seventy nine in the theater in my little small town in Silicaga, Alabama, and I was very very excited. I really enjoyed it. It was yet another Roger Moore. So you kind of knew what to expect going in, but I was not expecting what I got in that third act, and so I was on the floor. I was amazed and gotta tell us quick story too real quick you don't mind, is that

2:45 I was still suffering the ill effects of the previous movie from nineteen seventy seven, The Spy Who Loved Me. The story I've told many times, but in case your listeners haven't heard, it is our little theater in Silicaga, Alabama, middle of nowhere, you know, forty miles out of the We didn't get movies very often. We had to wait a long time to get them. You know, you may have heard of the movie that came out about the same time as The Spy Who Loved Me. I know this story, Star Wars. I wanted to see Star Wars. My older brother wanted to see the James Bond movie because he was older, and you know, he was into it more at that point. And so we went down to Daytona, Florida for vacation and my dad says, we're gonna go see one movie while we're here, and I'm like, yes, we're gonna see Star Wars like We're gonna see the James Bond movie, and I'm like, oh, and so I have irrationally hated the spy who loved me ever since.

3:34 So so Moonraker was just going to be an improvement, no matter how bad it was, you know, in that circumstance. Well, and it probably set us. It scratched a little bit of that Star Wars edge. I'm sure, yeah, just a touch, Jeff, what about you? As I've said on some of our other episodes, I clearly was a James Bond fan before I seen Moonraker. I don't remember the first time I seen it, which I'm assuming was probably on TBA watching it with my dad. However, I remember the first time I became aware of Moonraker would have been probably like eighty three eighty four, when I picked up a back issue of Cracked magazine they used to do the parodies yep, and I was like, oh, they're doing a James Bond movie. I'd never heard of Moon Raker, so you know, my first truly my first experience was was reading the parody of Moonraker in Cracked magazine, which I want to say is like I did some digging on this. I think it's like issue one fifty five from like the nineteen eighty that's a deep series. Yeah, so yeah, collectors, I looked it up. It's like you can go to EBA for like twenty five thirty bucks, so check it out. Well, yeah, I mean kind of a similar thing with me, Like, you know, my my brother got me into sci fi with Star Trek, Doctor Who, Star Wars.

4:51 We shared all those kinds of things. But James Bond was always my dad's thing, except he would always watch it on wherever it was on syndication, wherever it was playing, and inevitably fall asleep in his recliner, so I'd essentially be watching it by myself. And this one, I remember a lot of the action sequences, but I remember probably losing interest at that age, pretty young age, whenever they would start dialoguing, or whenever he'd be amorously involved with a woman or anything else like that, just coming back for the pew pew kind of moments. So I kind of feel like this is the first time that I've genuinely sat down and focused on Moonraker. But I'm also fascinated by the divisiveness of it, which we'll get into a little bit later. I personally love it. So for any listener that has not seen Moonraker, how would you describe Moonraker for someone? Industrialist Hugo Drax is planning to reshape humanity by wiping out most of it with a deadly nerve gas and replacing them with those that he's deemed perfect. At the core of his plans his fleet of Moonbaker space shuttles, which he uses to take his perfect people to say the orbiting station where they'd wait for the guest to clear. It's only Hope as Usual is James Bond, who's recruited by six to travel around the world, unravel the mystery of a hijacked space shuttle, avoid the deadly bite of the iconic villainous assassin Jaws, and eventually stop Drags from killing everyone on Earth. It's a James Bond classic that often divides audiences and critics, but it's undeniably one of the most unusual and profitable entries in the franchise.

6:26 So you talked about this debate amongst Bond fans. Van What are your thoughts on why is this movie? Why does Why is this Bond? Particularly why does it divide Bond fans the way the way it does? Is this an underrated classic or is it? Is it better left behind? This is absolutely an underrated classic. I think it's probably the most underrated Bond movie. And I think there's reasons why it legitimately can be kind of scorned a little bit, and there are reasons that it is unfairly scorn. I think the reasons that are fair is that it continues the kind of over the top silly comedy stuff that had been going on for several movies at this point, and it kind of reaches new heights in this movie. And that's fair. That's fair.

7:20 But I would say that it's unfair in that the same thing that people point to in Moonraker and say, oh, that's horrible, they never say about Live and Let Die. They never say about the Man with the Golden Gun, which were the two you know in nineteen seventy three and nineteen seventy five. You know, everybody kind of looks at the Spy who Loves Me in seventy seven, and they look at on her for your eyes only in eighty one. This is in between. So basically Moonraker is sandwiched in between two that are more highly regarded. And they always say this. They always say, oh, it's so, it's unbelievable, it's ridiculous. It's Bond Star Wars. And I'm like, look, if Bond got in an X wing, jumped into hyperspace and fought Darth Vader, yes, I'd be right there with you. But instead he flies in a vehicle that we don't even use anymore because it's too old. It's like he flies in the famous exploding pickup trucks of outer space that we built. We were building these vehicles while the movie was being made. Okay, the actual shuttle flew two years after this movie came out. Two years, not two hundred years, not off in the future, right, So you know, and they go up to get this Earth orbit. Oh my gosh, how unbelievable human beings in Earth orbit get out of here. I don't get the problem. So I've never and you know, and again you have the Moonraker shuttles, and you have the actual US Space Shuttle taking troops in packs. We have those packs,

8:56 the only thing in that entire We have a space station, we have those exact shuttles, we have those flying packs. The only thing in that entire battle that's not accurate technology wise are the laser guns. That's it, right, So I don't I always thought that was the coolest thing ever. That's one of my favorite scenes in any Bond film is this awesome astronaut space battle. It's awesome and it's not unbelievable. So that's the thing I've always had with it is it seems completely plausible to me, and more plausible than a lot of the stuff. You know, nobody complains about the underwater city in the previous movie, and yet we don't have an underwater city exactly. We've got a space station. We got a space shuttle. Yep. So that's that would be my immediate probably more than you wanted, but that would be I don't understand the divisiveness of this, of this particular Bond outing, because everything Van just spoke to He's absolutely right. There's there's nothing completely absurd for for James Bond to be doing in this movie. If anything's absurd, you know, Bonda and Van backed me up here, doesn't doesn't Ean Flaming say that Bond at age forty five, he should be he should be on a desk job right, he should be, he should be out out of the field. Roger Moore, this is his fourth James Bond or yeah, it's his fourth James Bond film. He's fifty two years old when he's when this one comes out, but he the man is still doing an amazing job.

10:31 Roger Moore was too old to be an m I six before he filmed his first Bond movie. It's unbelievable to say nothing of a view to a kill when he was almost sixty. Yeah, Scott, Yeah, you Scott, you had a first like this was more or less the first time watching for you. Where do you stand on this? On this take? You know, was this a divisive film for you? It really wasn't. I think I was expected because I had only remembered scenes. Most of what I remembered from when I was a kid was seeing like you know, Jaws's romance, romance, it was blooming with Dolly, right, it saw probably the space battle, but I mean any of those elements. If people are having an issue with the space battle, and to your point, the only unrealistic part of that are the lasers are the only things that aren't possible. They even go into the physics of the space station. Why when they stopped the spin of the station to cancel out the artificial gravity, that seems like it's pretty deeply rooted in science. Fact, you know, a clever way to do that. I saw the places where people, you know, I've seen people talk about the double take pigeon and things of that nature, and some of the places where it gets a little bit maybe more juvenile. But think about how much of our generation has watched this as more of a family experience,

12:05 right It's kids going to see it with parents. So I think there's leeway for that, for scenes like that, for a little bit of intentional comedy, for a little bit of things that are have a bit of a wilder imagination to appeal to a broader audience. But there's never any part of it that doesn't seem like it's taking yourself seriously. And to me, I think some of the most amazing things about this movie or how it was actually made, specifically the stunt work, the special effects. Considering what they had available in nineteen seventy nine, the things they did in this were amazing. I know it's inspired by an Ian Fleming novel of the same name, but it doesn't share a lot else, right, basically just Hugo Dracx's name and the core plot. Am I right? Space track something that flies up off the ground. Yeah, that's pretty right, and Bond and a girl running around together trying to stop it. Yeah right, naturally, Yeah, yeah, Well it's got a great screenplay by Christopher Wood. Obviously, like you said, written to kind of capitalize on that space craze sparked by Star Wars.

13:15 It wasn't supposed to hit where it did in the franchise. I think it was supposed to be for your eyes only, correct, That was kind of announced the end of the last movie, and then they inserted this one, knowing how popular Star Wars was, right, Yeah, Now, I what I what I understand is that CUBBC Star Wars and just is over the moon for it pun intended, So we rush, We rushed to Moonraker. He actually contacts ILM to do the effects and they kind of they kind of over budget themse like they kind of price themselves out because they're busy with other work they're getting ready for Empire. Allegedly, they they tell Kubby Brockley, we'll we'll do the effects for Moonraker. It's it cost you two million dollars and we want two points on the movie, and to which he's like, absolutely not, We'll do it ourselves. Is it Van? What do you know about the effects on this? I don't know a lot about their connection with ILM. I know that that was the time that ILM was really just getting up and going and starting to farm out to other films and other studios.

14:22 But yeah, they were about to They were working on Empire for sure. The production thing, as far as I'm concerned, it's interesting. I addressed the Dracts thing too, was that this was the last of the ken Adam Bonds, and it really shows. I think that if you look at all the Bonds from the very beginning nineteen sixty two Doctor No. Up through Moonraker, they all share that ken Adam esthetic of his big, spacious, bold design work. And if you look at every Bond movie after this, they look completely different. They just don't look like big sixties seventies Bond movies anymore. But I mean, the effects that are in this movie are so different.

15:03 Right, there's no other Bond movie before it, and probably not after it, that did anything in terms of like well, I mean the rocket in You Only Live Twice, the Rocket that eight rockets, because obviously this is a remake of the previous movie, which was a remake of You Only Live Twice. Right, this is the third movie out of time, so the third time in ten years. If they did the same movie they just did, did one from Japan to space, one underwater, and then one back in space again, but it's the same movie. Yeah, So this is the only one though, other than the Rocket in You Only Live Twice, where they really needed believable spacecraft taking off and flying, and I mean in the space station, and I mean they you know they did. I thought they did a perfectly, perfectly fine job with it. I don't know that ILM in nineteen seventy eight when they were filming this probably would they have done a better job than what we got. I don't maybe, you know, I think the only thing that Mike could have been better is like the fire effects out of the engines. You know, movies struggled with that for ages until probably the eighties. Right, They always just kind of look like like a cigarette lighter upside down when they were flying, rather than rather than the fire. You know, they could have probably done that a little bit better. But I mean the scene with the with the Moonraker in the opening blasting off and blowing up the seven forty seven, that was great. It's fantastic as far as I'm was saying. For nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine,

16:33 that was spectacular. So they did great well. So it's times when they have to work around certain limitations and they find clever ways to do it. Like in the Inside of Moon Record documentary, they talked about a certain scene where Bond and Holly are in their Moon Raker going up into orbit and at a certain point there's not jet blasts coming out of the rockets as much as it's of like the vapor trails coming out from it. And they essentially turned a space shuttle into a salt shaker, like they filled it full of salt and then just lifted it up and let the salt drain out, and it made these perfect streams of what looked like smoke. When I was watching it, it was hard not to see the salt shaking out, but I could see how it was also plausible, like it looked perfect just the way it was, and it's just somebody that had an idea to turn it into a salt shaker. Stuff like that is absolutely fascinating. And thinking about what they had to work with in seventy nine compared to what we're used to now is light years apart. Like I said, the stunt work in this film off the charts. What do you think, Scott, Yeah, absolutely, I mean, especially when you hear some of the stories about what they had to go through. You know, thinking about the aerial fight with Jaws is one that specifically stands out for me hearing about how back then cameras were so incredibly heavy and to have the perspective that they did, they'd literally have to

18:10 be holding a camera as they're falling out of the airplane. They took I think it was eighty eight jumps to film that sequence and found it seems like by by chance, they were in a pawn shop in Paris and found a plastic lens that they could use that I think all the way about seven pounds that gave them just the right amount of weight to be able to go up and make all these jumps and film this big elaborate sequence. Now that's one where the you know, there's an intentionally funny moment when Jaws is kind of falling there at the end and he has no parachute, so he starts flapping his arms. Right about then is when he got the most wily coyote for me. And it was hard to shake that image of him by being a cross between None from Superman two and Wildly Coyote. But it worked really well, and just knowing what they had to go through to get that done, you got to respect it that. And then when they go over the waterfall and he pulls the steering wheel off the boat, those are probably as low his low point, kind of just what you said, You're exactly right.

19:18 They found that lens and then they had to have a camera built that would use it. There was light enough, so they built the camera and then they they made five separate jumps every day, and they did it in the United States because it was just the weather was better and the laws were easier to get around than they were in Europe. And they and he said that the stunt coordinator said that every day they'd go to the he'd go to the airfield to get the get the get the parachute guys out, and they were always asleep because they didn't have the same work ethic as movie people. So you had to go wake them all up, scream at him to go get on the plane, get their parachute on. And I love the fact they had to put a special small parachute on the one that they kind of swapped back and forth in air in case somebody dropped it, because it could kill somebody. It had like an automatic small parachute. And they said one time when they were filming, they dropped it without the parachute and it came down like a rocket and hit the ground and they had to stop everything and go find it because they didn't have a backup, so they had to like crawl all over their woods looking for where this parachute had come through this bundle of parachute to come down like a cannonball. So that was pretty good. But yeah, they that opening scene is worth it though, because you get I mean, it's it's so cool, because it's good enough just having Bond thrown out of an airplane without a parachute and then having to like, you know, when I was a kid, I'm like, he's dead. There's no you can't out of a p You're dead. You can't jump out without a parachute and then he starts like angling and I'm like, can you do that?

20:49 Yeah, he catches the guy and just when you think, oh, okay, I see where this is going, then here comes Jaws out and you're like, oh no, So I just that was a really well put to you know. I mean, what they were trying to do was top the the previous movies opening credits where they had bonded jumped off the cliff in like Austria or wherever the Alps and had popped out the British flag parachute, which was awesome, right. Yes, they wanted to say we can even do better than that, and I think they did this. This went on much longer and was much more involved. I thought when I was young, this was a very thrilling opening for a James Bond film. Oh yeah, and I gotta wonder. I don't know about you, guys, I'm wondering.

21:29 Uh, it's a young Catherine Bigelow watching this and going, I'm gonna use that at some point because I'm watching this recently. Again, I couldn't wait to watch watch Point Break, you know. And yeah, and if if, if Moon Breaker and Point Break have taught me anything it's really that I should have no fear of jumping out of an airplane without a parachute as long as there's someone below me that I can I can angle myself to and and uh and connect with. I don't know. It's a thrill sequence, absolutely, Scott. That tells me I should never go skydiving with you. That's what I'm learning from that jet. At least I should be the one with the parachute. Well, yeah, as long as you got the parachute, we'll be fine, exactly. Yeah. I mean, we talk a lot on this series about how, you know, seeing how it has an influence on future films, And I think that sequence alone has to have influence on a lot of movies like Point Break that use that same kind of sequence.

22:27 And you know, I think anybody on a stunt crew, or a camera crew for that matter, looking back on what they did, knowing how difficult and complex it has to be, even nowadays, they're going to respect what's happening, especially van like you said, considering if they're up there with a handmade custom camera. If that falls, oh no, production's over right, Yeah, So yeah, I got one other little story about the opening. If y'all want to hear it. You may not even to use this, but I think it's it's really funny. So Bond escapes with a parachute and jaws hits the circus tent and bounces off, and then it goes into the Maurice Bender opening credits. Originally the script was that he crashes through the circus tent, catches the trapee, swings all around. They couldn't do all that. That was never going to work, so they just showed it.

23:22 They just immediately transitioned from him hitting the tent to the opening credits, and all of Maurice Bender's opening credits have naked women dancing around with Bond, right, and the one hundred more they're filming him. They had the naked women, they're filming them in silhouette. But the problem was it was the late seventies and those ladies had not shaved anything and did not want to shave anything, oh boy, And so when they would turn sideways in silhouette, there was a problem, right, definitely a problem. Yes, yes, So Maurice Bender says, well, what are we going to do? He go a little old, kindly old man, right, he goes and gets some vasoline and he's there with these naked women vacillining them down. Oh, when Cubby Broccoli walks in. Cubby Broccoli, the producer, the owner of the whole franchise, stands there staring at him for a minute, and he goes, I'm the producer of this movie, and I have no idea what I'm paying for here, Like what is God? Yeah? Wow, Okay, I definitely think it's time for a break. We are back with our special guest Van Allen Plexico going through the lens for Moonraker Scott, do you want

24:52 to talk a little bit about the budget here? Well, I mean, you know, it's an undisputable fact when we when we talk about the divisiveness of it. The only other thing I wanted to bring up is just that this one took more than thirty four million dollars to make, which was more than twice of the movie before. But it was also the highest grossing Bond film with two hundred and ten million in profits, which made it the highest grossing Bond film until GoldenEye in ninety five, which is fascinating for something that people tend to you know, poke fun at or whatever, but you can't deny the fact that people came to it in droves and apparently they keep coming back. So and I'll address the double taking pigeon in the room. Yes, he does probably represent the he or she represents probably the high point or low point of silly inserts that don't have to be there. But I would point out that there's also the Tarzan yell in. I can't remember which one it is now, maybe this one, the one where he swings through the jungle. And there's also to me much worse is the slide whistle when they're doing that when they're doing that incredible boat jump that the Book of World Records where they jumped the boat and Live and Let Die over the road spin at

26:26 a three sixty and they they ruined that beautiful scene with the boom noise, and it's like, and yet everybody thinks Living Let Die is just the greatest thing ever and they have no problem and they and they can't stand the double taking pigeon that's on the screen about a second, Yeah, exactly, sitting on the wrong things, I think, Yes, man, I'm I'm kind of curious on your take on this. Sadly, this is this is the last time we see Bernard Lee play the role of M. Your thoughts on his performance in this one or you know, favorite favorite performances as M. Yeah, this is another thing. I mean, it is like Moonraker.

27:07 As the seventies come to a close, you lose Ken Adam and you lose Bernard Lee, two tremendous blows. I mean we do get of course, you know, we eventually get Judy Danch who I think is equal to Bernard Lee, but that takes a while. You got to go through, you know, all the eighties and half of the nineties before you you know, be fifteen more years, sixteen more years. But yeah, he was such an important part of the whole Bond film universe. He was integral to it. And you know, nobody came close to measuring up to him for sixteen years. And they you know, they had like the Minister come on for one, and they brought in a new m for a couple of movies, but it was just nobody had that gravitize he was. You know, he really was like a father figure to Bond. And you know he could be equally golding or encouraging. Right when Bond was down, he he'd kind of do something to pick Bond up, and when Bond got a little full of himself, he'd criticize him and bring him down. And then of course that that my favorite Bond and m interaction ever, and I think and you only lived twice or no, it was after that because they because it was going to Japan. There was another one somewhere in there where where Bond said something about it. And then there was that time M and I were out late at night in Tokyo and he was like, oh, let's change. The subject does not want that coming out. So but uh, yeah, Bernard Lee was a treasure and and it really I think the movies will suffer for

28:42 his loss for a little while. Well, I think is what I think is really fascinating about his performance in this one especially. I think, you know, I could be wrong, but I think that is this the only time where M actually shares screen time with the film's villain, like they were there face to face in the same street. I scene, Oh, that's right, because he has that moment where you know, Drax kind of pulls the wool over everyone's eyes when Bond, you know, kind of takes him to the lab. That's no longer there and on behalf of Britain. I'm terribly sorry. It just then he's pissed, like he's like he's like Bond is off the case, getting so well. It's it's appropriate that they were together there because you mentioned the book a minute ago, Scott, and I'll say a couple of things that in the book, the premise of the novel, and again this is a book from the fifties, so it's very different you know, early in the Space Program at all. But in the book, Hugo Drax is British and he's I guess he's British here too, but he seems more like a I don't know what he's supposed to be in the movie, another one of these Belgians that want to conquer the world like Blowfelt, I guess. But in the book he's very British. He's a he's a card player and he plays cards with him like every week. And it's during these card games that im I think, gets some information that realizes I need to investigate what he's up to. And that's when he goes to Bond and says, I need you to come and play cards with dracts and kind

30:12 of figure out what's going on, and that's where and that's where he's like it's kind of like Casino Royale where they're like, all right, Bond, are you sure you're good enough to sit in on a you know, maybe a poker or whatever they're playing with with Drax and not making pool out of yourself. Yeah. So so yeah, that's that's so it's appropriate that if he's gonna meet it, if if em is going to meet any Bond villain, it's appropriate would be Dracts because in the book they are they start out as like poker buddies or whatever. Yeah, Bon Bond is only as good as his villain. And I think Michael Lonsdale's performance as you Go Dras It might be one of my favorite performances for a Bond villain. He's he's incredible And and Scott, you know, I know this is like, you know, you're kind of a first experience with Drax. I watched it, you know, like I said recently, rewatching this, when you look at his face, when you when you hear the inflection of his voice, I'm almost asking myself like, is is this Peter Diglitch's dad? Like that's what he reminds me of you know. And meanwhile, like this guy has got an incredible setup, He's surrounded by beautiful women. He just never seems happy though.

31:26 I just don't get it. Man, what man, what is Hugo Drax's problem. I've always called him the Perry Como of Bond Villains. He's like, you know, come up with the singer that was renowned for just like laying back on the sofa almost being asleep while he sings. You know. Drax just kind of drowses his way through this movie. And when I was younger, I really did not like Drags because I'm like, come on, do something at least, you know, even even Blowfell pulled a gun on Bond and you know, and and well, I guess Drax does at the very end. He gets a little active towards the end when he asked him. But Drax is just so inactive. But as the years have gone by, I've come to appreciate Dracts a lot more movie. Dracts a lot more in the sense that he he's just he's so arrogant, he's so full of himself. Everything he the reason he gets caught and loses is his own fault. Every bit of it is his own fault. You know, if he hadn't stolen his own moonraker back from the British, yes, by blowing up their plane, they never would have known until it was too late, right. If he'd let Bond look around and go, huh, nothing to see here in California and go back, Bond would have told him, yeah, I looked around this rocket facility and I saw them building some moonrakers.

32:46 I didn't see anything else. But instead, much like Blofelds sending the helicopters to kill Bond when he was about to turn around and say, I couldn't find anything, right, and you only live twice, there's this long, proud tradition that the villain can't just leave well Enough alone. They've got to double down on killing Bond, and that always ruins him. You can't leave well enough alone Bond. Bond confronts him like, why did you steal your own plane? I needed it? Okay, okay. It's very interesting, Jeff that you mentioned the Peter Dinklish reference, because that's what Jude asked me when we were watching Your kidding. Yeah, I forget what role he recognized it, but he was like is that And I was like, no, but very interesting to make that connection. I'm maybe he was upset because he had, you know this Noah's ark he was trying to do with, you know, two by two couples that were making out on moon Breaker as they were coming up to the shuttle. He's all on his onesie just kind of like, oh, that's a good point. Get somebody for myself. Yeah, you know, that's that's a good point. Because the whole time I'm watching, I was like, well, who's who is his uh, who's his girl? You know, who's who's his special person? You know?

34:07 And say and say what you will about Dracs, but the fact is he was a champion of diversity long before we even talking about it. Anyway. He's got he's got a what Van backed me up here, He's he's got a French helicopter pilot he does. He's got he's got a j he's got a Japanese Yeah, well brutal, brutal in for her, but but he's got a Japanese hitchman. He's got an American scientist yep, who I missing? And the and the and the and the perfect people that he's taking up to the station are all pretty diverse too. I know there were a couple of black people. It's a melting pot up on h on space station drags. It's it's a wild scene. Man. It did make me think, literally, I'm kind of pontificating about this after watching the movie, Like, but I don't think he's thinking it all the way through, Like, Oh, I've killed all the doctors that know about these you know, uh, diseases that might be on the planet. I've gotten rid of the engineers that have all these other expertise. Like that. Seemed like he was collecting a lot of pretty people. But I don't know if he collected you know, if they're all I assume they're all outstanding in their field. Well, he had talked about how he they had all worked for him in various facilities, So yeah, I imagine all these kids and barbies. They they're kind of like a Christmas Jones, you know, they're that was maybe doctor Goodhead was supposed to be his woman. Whether she knew it or not, she was gonna find that out after the fact. Yeah, that's a good point.

35:42 It appears that you and I are the only two singles left. We could my palatial quarters now and our dogs. Then she pulls a con and she's like, where's the override? The override, Scott, we can't talk Bond with about without music? You want to you want to score this one? Yeah? So I know. This was composed by John Berry, recorded in Paris, which is a turning point in the franchise because it goes away from CTS Studios in London. It was also a turning point in john Berry's technique, which before had a lot of reliance on brass and now was going into, you know, more string kind of focus. It seemed like it was all very appropriate for the scenes. It was all very well orchestrated and fitting with with every scene that we got. The one thing that I thought was was interesting where I got more more information was around the theme song by Shirley Bassi. I'm I saying that correct, the third of the Bond films that she had done a theme song for, after Goldfinger and Diamonds or Forever.

37:00 Apparently this also was at one time offered to Frank Sinatra Kate Bush, which is interesting. Wait, running up that hill. Kate Bush apparently and Johnny had started a recording part of this at a certain point, but ultimately had to back out and it went back to Bassie. Now, then you mentioned, you know, the the elaborate scenes in the beginning, those kind of intros. Apparently Kebby complained that the title sequence cost more than the entire budget of Doctor No. Well, the entire budget Doctor Now was a million dollars, so, right, so it's not much of a stretch. Yeah, but No, I thought it was very appropriate for the movie. I don't think it's one of my favorite theme songs, but you know that that's all connected to you know, the ones that I first see in the theater, and this wasn't one of them. But what are your thoughts on the music?

38:00 This is my number two theme song after You Only Live Twice. I like this. I like the airy, spacious ones more than the ones you know, And so You Only Live Twice and Moonraker right up there, they're the two I probably played the most. The interesting thing about this one too, is that, from what I understand, this is the only Bond score where the entire score was not preserved properly, and so there has never been a release of the full complete score of this movie. And there's like private organization, at least one out there doing kind of the equivalent of a Kickstarter or whatever, trying to reassemble it from whatever is available. So they've been I don't know that might have changed in the last couple of years, but the last I heard about it two or three years ago, when Alan and I did our most recent review of it, was that they were trying to reassemble it and they were just having a hard time because it's just not you know, good quality recordings of all this music are just not available. Like you know, if you go to You Only Live Twice, you can get like a double album of every bit of music that was even composed for that movie. But for Moonraker, you're doing good to get you know, snippets of what was on the screen. So it's it's unfortunate because I really do like this one. Well, let's take another break and when we come back, we'll get into the rewind. Welcome back, Scott. Let's go to the rewind and talk about what keeps us coming back to this movie. The one that I got the most out of was the scene where we see the reveal of doctor good Head as a CIA agent and we go through all of

39:32 her gadgets, which it seems like she's stacked a lot better than Bond was. Yes, and that's not the first time. It wouldn't be the last time, right, Doctor, I mean Agent Triple X in the previous movie, although she was Russian not American. So in both cases it's the it's the superpower hanging out with the British agent. In fact, in some ways Bond gets along better with the Soviet agent than he does with the American agent, entertaining. Yeah. And then and of course later on we get the we get the circle complete when we get the Chinese agent with with Michelle Yoh, my favorite Bond girl. So so I always enjoy when Bond has a Bond girl who's not just there to scream and cry for help, but is also you know, a match for him in every way and has her own brings her own hardware, you know, brings her own gadgets. That's really cool. So I like Doctor. I didn't like her when I first saw the movie, because you know, you you want you want the women to get along with with Roger Moore Bond. He's so charming, he's so funny and nice. Of course they're all gonna love him, and any of them that show any resistance, you're like, hey, what's wrong with her?

40:39 You know? But but again, just like with Drax, as the years go by and you revisit it and everything and you see it in perspective, my opinion of doctor Goodhead has has increased over time. I like her a lot well. And she's the only one who knows how to fly a moon raker. I mean, he would have been she hadn't been a lot right. She's there with the check listening the floating pen, like, right, this is what we have to do, and he's like, I know, I do. What's happening here? Van? I love that you mentioned it's it's nice to see a bond girl who's not screaming and carrying on throughout the whole movie, because ironically, you know, when I think of Lewis Childs, you know, I should be thinking about doctor Holly Goodhead, but I always think of her performance and Creep Show too, when she played with Missus Lansing the you know, the hitch hiker, you know, and she's screaming for like twenty straight minutes. Yeah she is. She's an awesome Yeah she saved it up. Yeah yeah, Van. If you remember when we did our we did our best of the Bond Girls draft, you know, I remember, you know you mentioned Michelle Yeao. Holly Goodhead was what was on my list. Yeah, she made the cut for my team. So he's formidable. I got to point out one of my favorite little fact toys.

41:52 This is the only Bond movie where Bond never fires a pistol. He fires a hunting rifle that kills the guy in the true and then he uses his little watch. He has his watch that shoots missiles the whole rest of the movie, so he never actually takes out of hand, and ever he has a pistol. Really, I don't think. Yeah, so we never see the Walter PPK right, mm hm wow, I don't think he has it in the plane at the beginning. He doesn't doesn't use it for sure. It's another Mandela effect. You just assumed that Bond is going to shoot someone in every single movie. Yeah, you're right, he does not see he doesn't. He doesn't shoot a single guy. Yeah. That actually makes me think of the cable car scene. I remember saying out loud because I knew what was going to happen, that it was going to be a hand to hand fight between Jaws and Bond. But at the moment where they had stopped his cable car, why didn't they just take a rifle and shoot him like he's stuck in a cable car. He's a sitting duck. But yeah, no, that's interesting. I didn't even remember that. Yeah, speaking of Jaws and a couple of other things about him, I love the fact that he's well you might say, why would why would Drax have a henchman that he's not gonna think is perfect and can go up on the space station and all. But remember Drax was a replacement. He was brought in at the last minute because Bond killed the Asian guy that he fought in Venice. And there's that. Great my one of my favorite. Drax has a couple of great lines. You mentioned one when you said look after you, you paraphrase

43:23 look after mister Bond. See that some harm comes to and that's a great line. Okay. Drax also tells Bond, James, Bond, you appear with a tedious inevitability of an unloved season, which is a great line. That's just so beautiful line for a while. Yeah, but the but the Jaws one though, I was saying, is they kind of hired him as a temp right. They called up the temp agency and said, do you have any super villain Injamin because he says that I need a I need one in a hurry, and you don't hear the other end of the conversation, and then Drax says, oh, well, if you can get him, and then Jaws show up, You're like, oh, he's recruiting from the other movie. Cool it. He just called up wherever. You know, there's like a task master in the in the James Bond universe that hires out flunkies, you know, yep, dilute trust. And that's why Jaws was eligible. Was not eligible to be a you know, go up to the sanctuary thing other than just for a few jobs. But yeah, so he was. He was never really supposed to supposed to be involved at all, and it but it gave them a way to bring him in because again, you know, people wanted him to be in this movie, and in fact, there was talk that he would have been in the next one. But I'm glad they dialed it back because obviously with the next one they were trying to get more grounded again and Jaws. Jaws at that point had become just a parody of himself. I'm afraid so, Scott, Uh. I know this is a typically part of the rewind, but I just got to ask

44:53 you watch a movie like Moonraker, and I kind of feel like this informed a lot of other movies where we already mentioned point Break, like with the daring daring scene at the beginning with the you know, bond jumping out and catching the guy without a parachute, But any any other newer movies come to mind when you when you think of Moon Breaker now, So for me, I would say Austin Powers. I really wanted to watch an Austin Powers movie like The Spider Shagged Me with the yes, I mean, well yeah, even though it's probably not my favorite Austin Powers movie, at least one that's related to it, because you can see where they're kind of taking the any kind of camp aspects of it to the end degree. And I think that would, you know, especially if you're watching with the younger audience, depending on how appropriate it might be, it certainly would come up as a as a good chaser to to this one. In my opinion, Van, what do you think, yeah, the only thing. I mean, I've waited for so long for another movie that does a kind of a low orbit space battle, and they just there really haven't been movies that have done anything like that. I think that probably the closest we've gotten is For All Mankind on Apple Plus. But even that has never given us anything quite like this.

46:16 I mean, it's given us stuff on the surface of the Moon or Mars, or like you know, on a ship or something. But I just the big battle between the astronauts from the US and the Drax astronauts that to me has never been They've never nobody's ever even attempted to do that again. And I still, by the way, I still ask this question, where do these villains go to get henchmen who are willing to die for their boss for their paycheck. They must have like all of the lives tied up in the closet or something. I mean, because in the real world, when the when the military shows up, those guys that all be like, oh, we're done, surrender, put me in prison, dine out of space for that rich dude. No paycheck is worth this. Take me to prison, guys. I mean there, so I'm always impressed with the with the devotion of these guys. You know, I'm glad vance, I'm glad Van's here to offer a little gravitas to some of these these questions because Scott, you you're talking Austin Powers. I gotta be honest. When I was watching this, uh the other day, there's that great moment where Drax when he when he when Bond first meets Drax, and he's got these just ferocious looking, insanely scary Doberman sitting there and he tosses the meat and they don't move, and like minutes go by, and then he just snaps his fingers and

47:47 then and then they eat, right. I immediately thought of Last Action Hero when when Arnold knocks on the door and the dogs show up and he's I snapped fingers and arterials arterial red will be on the page. I was like, damn, Like everyone is going back to the Moonraker when they if you want to spoof Jays Bond, you want to talk James Bond, it was going to Moon Raker. It seems like, so yeah, all right, Well, speaking of Jaws, I know we talked about a couple of times, but Dave and I usually at some point in the show, we talked about quotes from people who were close to the movie, people who were involved with the movie. I found something interesting from a two thousand and nine interview with denn A Geek about talking with Richard Keel about being cast as Jaws and how seriously he was taking it. So he says, when mister Brockley was describing the character, he said, Richard, this character is gonna have heath like tools that might be like a shark, but they're going to be made out of steel, and he kills people with his teeth. For me, it was a put off. It was a monster role. And then they had said they had interviewed David Prowse, who was already in the suit for Darth Vader, and it made me feel like it was an acting role.

49:00 A little voice inside me said, Richard, how much do you love the Bond series? Make it work. So I took a chance and said to Broccoli, whomever you cast, whether it's me or somebody else, I think it needs to be an actor because the character who kills people with his teeth could become over the top quite easily. If I were to play the role, I'd give him some human characteristics, perseverance, frustration, those kinds of things. He liked that because he took making the Bond films very seriously, and I think that he felt I was taking it very seriously as well, and that I would add something to the character. So he said, I like that. What are you doing for dinner tonight? He invited me to meet his family and the writer who was staying in his poolhouse, and that's how it came about. So very interesting perspective that both Cubby and Keel took the character seriously. As much as it was beloved by the younger audience, he wanted it to have something more. And I think that's kind of punctuated by the fact that we get I don't remember Jaws having dialogue in the last movie, but the fact that he just has a little bit of dialogue there at the end, I think really helps to show that they wanted to do a bit of rounding out for this character, and I was glad to see it. I met Richard Keel once at a convention a few a few years a couple of years before he died, and and I wanted to go over and talk to him at length, but I was still scared to death from seeing those two movies. When I was down, You're like, hey, look it's Richard Keel sitting there. He was in like a little head of little buggy he rode around in because he couldn't really walk anymore. Yeah, so he was just kind of hunched down in his little scooter at the table,

50:31 and I'm I don't care he still jaws. I'm like, nah, I'm not gonna go. He might eat me. Yeah. He always had that till the end. Yeah, exactly. Well, Jeff, we also talk about what if kind of scenarios in the show. I didn't find many alternate casting choices. I know that Jacqueline Smith was offered the role of Doctor Goodhead at one point, but I was also interested to see that Steven Spielberg had a chance of directing this at one point. My understanding is that he had been talking to Kubby about directing a Bond film. Uh, and Van might be Van might need to correct me here on what I know or what I've read, But apparently Kubby talks to Spielberg about using the the Notes, the five Notes for close Encounters. Yeah, but that great moment, yes, and that kind of started their whole conversation about, yeah, let's maybe I'll do a Bond film, but it's Lucas and Hawaii who says, well, I've got a Bond character. Mm, and uh, he's an archaeologist, and then we know the history there. He does Raiders instead of doing a Bond film. Yeah, well that came that came full circle, right because then when Spielberg talked to Broccoli about using the double oh seven theme music in the scene for the Goonies mm hmm, Broccoli kind of apparently gave him

52:04 a little bit of hassle, like a tongue in cheek, kind of like, I don't know about that. That's not that's not five notes, that's more right exactly exactly, But thankfully he was able to use it. Van. Had you heard anything about any kind of what if scenarios for this one? Well, Lois Childs was originally cast as Agent Triple X for The Spy Who Loved Me, which would have been an interesting if she played a Russian ends up playing an American. So that's that's kind of odd. But I don't I don't know the story of how she ended up dropping out and it went to Katherine back. Is it Katherine Bock, I get the Box, Barbara, Barbara, Barbara Black, Barbara, I get the Box mixed up? One one was in the General Lee and one was in the Underwater uh lotus. They both had cool cars, so how can you keep him straight?

52:46 Right? Was married to Ringo and one could have dated her cousin. I guess the other one. And we mentioned James Mason was the first choice for Drax, which I think is fascinating. I think because James Mason, he he does get to be a Bond villain at one point, kind of because he's the villain north by Northwest, which is all but a Bond movies. It's it's bonding that we bond, right, Yeah, it's Kerry Grant doing bonding. Yeah, doing a Bond that doesn't know what he's doing. The other thing that to me that's kind of interesting about all this is that in a normal cycle, talk about what could have happened and how it did happen. In a normal Bond movie cycle, usually the new Bond actor starts in a more small espionage oriented story and they kind of slowly build up to save the world from the supervillain plot. Right, there's an escalation and when they get to that one, they usually would pull the plug. Wait a couple of years, bring in a new bond and they start back over again.

53:53 Roger Moore is like the only Bond actor that gets two acts. He gets to do the whole thing twice because he starts out and Live and Let Die and Work, which is about drugs in the Caribbean basically, and works his way up to too Almost Save the worlds right, well, it does save the world from too almost destroy the entire world. That's as big as you can get, and you're like, okay. Moon Raker is the perfect movie for Roger Moore to bow out because he's now done the seventies, he's climbed the ladder, he's reached that point. Time to go and instead, and they do cycle back around to For Your Eyes Only, and he just starts over again at the small level, because I mean, think about it.

54:37 In nineteen seventy nine, he's trying to prevent the entire world from being nerve gassed the entire world. In nineteen eighty one, he's trying to recover a stolen coating machine. So you know what I mean, it's quite right back down to the beginning. Again the attack at Cirl a tack two Saints Cirl but he and he builds his way back up to I guess if you do a kill with the killer blimp and all that and then yeah, you know, the slowest blimp in history that's creeping behind you. What of you to a kill? I gotta tell you. I listen, I Scott, you know last time you guys, uh, you did Rocky too. You invited me on. You know, I'm a huge Rocky fan and as big a fan as I am of Rocky, I'm just as big a fan of James Bond. So you know I was I was happy to uh to get the call to to come talk because you know, and again another opportunity to talk with Van. Yeah we know. Van's done some awesome stuff with Docum based seventy seven. Uh. We did the best of the Bond Girls episode with the show you Can't Be Serious podcast. That was a blast. That was a good time. We had Deaf Dave from the Apples and Oranges podcast with us. That was a really fun one. But yeah, this has been this has been amazing. But Scott, I gotta ask, like, you know, uh, because I've got the I've got the last, the last big box set that they brought out, I think when Specter was coming

56:12 out. That's that's the blue rays that I've got, you know, physical media. As Dayton Johnson would say, it is always better, Scott, where'd you see this one? Where'd you catch it? So? Unfortunately I caught it on a DVD that for some reason does not have English subtitles, And I remember having this the hardest time getting the right volume on this thing, Like all the dialogue was whisper quiet, and all the action scenes were very, very loud. So I would definitely recommend finding the blue ray. Absolutely, find something that can, you know, sit in your collection, something you can hold on to, but also something that gives you all those behind the scenes facts and documentaries, because to me, it's you can't watch one without the other, then what about you. I've got somewhere around here the Blu rays for some of these movies. But I really, I mean, I've never felt the need to do that, because I have when these came out around two thousand and five, two thousand and six ish, I got the four box sets or Gorgeous and all four of these and I immediately transfer them all to the Plex server, so I can Apple TV and watch any of them anytime I want. And I mean, yeah, the result it's not Blu Ray level, but it's just so much easier. See, I dating and I don't always agree, and I'm a big fan of streaming and having stuff on a computer. I don't like physical media. I don't

57:45 mind having it back here stashed in the basement, but I don't like it. I don't like using it, I don't like watching it. So I'm not a big fan. So I like having these on my computer and I can just pull them up on my iPad, my TV, my phone whenever I want. So, yeah, guys, I I obviously I'm the you, I'm the Yugo Dras of the group because I'm I have the Blu Ray the set in its entirety. And I'm complaining because I want a four K. Uh. I want these four K That's that's why why don't we have them? Like? Where where are the four K options? Because I say, what you will like, Yeah, I mean the the Daniel Craig era like those. I mean, everything's on it's digital, it's gorgeous, it's very clean. But I would love to see four K restorations of the Sean Connery films and and the Roger Moore films especially. You know, I don't know where it's at, but I'm waiting. Yeah, that's a good point.

58:40 I haven't thought about that, but yeah, I'm surprised they haven't put out like a three hundred dollars boxed metal four K everything. Yeah, the whole set. They'd have my money. Yeah, it's already bought. Well, Jeff, like you said, I'm glad that you were able to to join us for this one, and Van, I'm extraordinarily grateful that you were able to join for this episode. I think we could not have done that without you, so thank you for being with us. I'll admit I was intimidated to do this one because of what you do with on Her Majesty's Secret podcast. I was like, this guy's gonna take me to school, Like there's there's so much more that you've got to know about this. I'm on there with Alan Porter. I just try to struggle to keep up with him.

59:30 I'm like tread and water with Alan, Like just saying if I can just just don't come off as the dumb one is all I try to do on that, so exactly, well, where else can we find you? Tell us about some of your other work. Yeah, so I have several podcasts on the White Rocket Entertainment Network. I have the obviously on Our Majesty's Secret Podcast, which I do some shows with Alan Jared Albrick and a few other folks have done like the Rookie Agents on there. We do a variety of them. We've reviewed every movie including like the TV Show from the sixties and The Abominable Casino Royale with David Niven and Woody and we've reviewed everything. Then we came back around and reviewed like the first half of them over again, looking at like categories of rating, the rating the bonds, raiding the gadget rating the girls right and all that vehicles. So that's out there if you just look for on Her Majesty Secret podcast. I've got the White Rocket Podcast where I just do generic, random whatever strikes my fancy. Daton came on a few months ago and we just talked about Judic Priest albums for an hour, which was awesome, just whatever we feel like talking about, you know. And then I have the White Rocket Babble on five review podcasts where Andy Fix and I have have been going for the last three or four years through every episode of Babylon five and breaking it down for about an hour and a half a week. So if you like Babylon five or you want to get into it, check out the White Rocket Battle and five review podcasts.

1:00:50 And you know. Other than that, I got a bunch of books. Haven't done a Bond book yet, ought to, but yeah, but there's there's two I wanted to ask you about because I'm big fan of the The Modern I guess uh new trilogy that sparked with Ocean's eleven. Yes, and you have a couple of heist novels, right, I do, Yeah, Vegas Heist and Miami Heist. Vegas Heist is set in nineteen sixty five, Miami Heist in nineteen sixty six. Allen and I are actually going to do a third book called Monaco Heist, set at the nineteen sixty seven Monaco Grand Prix. We're nice and we borrow from real life for every one of these.

1:01:30 So there actually was an incident at that race where two of the two of the cars and the race had diamonds attached to the hood as a promotion, and at the end of the race the diamonds were gone, so of course getting our heisters involved in that when they're when they show up for the race. So yeah, the cool the Vegas. The Vegas one is about these guys trying to rob uh Caesar's Palace as it's about has never opened before it is about to open. They find a way in, and then Miami Heist is a year later and they're down in South Florida trying to get uh, get a hold of a bunch of money hidden on an island off of the coast of Miami. That's cool. I have to check those out band for for all the listeners that share your disdain for physical media. If if they're gonna, if they're gonna, if they're gonna read a Van al of Plexico book? Uh, is there is there best bet like Amazon? Or is there a is there a van Allen like? Is there like a website that they could go to in order the books? Yeah? You can find everything, the podcast, the books, everything at plexico dot net p l e x i c o w I gues w w w dot p l e x c o dot net and that has links to the podcasts, the books, to everything Alan did by the way, do have an amazing Bond book.

1:02:43 He's done a couple now, but he did the Bond Lexicon, he and his wife. So if you look for the Bond Lexicon with Alan J. Porter, I mean, it's like a dictionary or encyclopedia of everything Bond, from the movies, from the comics, from the books. It's all in there. It's this huge book in my company publish a couple of years ago and it's been doing really well. But yeah, you can find all that if you go to ww dot plexico dot net. And my books are on Audible, they're on Kindle, they're in paperback, hardcover. Sure, whatever you want, we will get that information in the show notes for sure. Yeah. Listeners, if you want to leave a comment, discuss what's next, or even you've got suggestions, you can find us at a Film by podcast dot com. You can reach out to us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com. And of course you can find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, x, all the social channels.

1:03:37 Until our film reels start rolling again, go out watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you will discover next. Van. Thank you very much, Scott always a pleasure. Likewise, thanks everybody,