A Film at 45: Phantasm

0:00 Hey everybody. Jeff Johnson here from a Film By podcast with some exciting news before you start today's episode. This Friday, November first, at seven pm, will be joined by actress Tiffany Helm and writer director Nio cavosos Garcia talking about their new Christmas horror movie, Catnip. It's being called Grimlins for grownups, featuring a ferocious band of feral killer cats and the best part is you can be involved in this production. The Catnip Kickstarter campaign is live right now, and during Friday's episode, the cat Nippers will be offering a contest for all the viewers who contribute money to their campaign. One lucky winner will be drawn for a perk package upgrade.

0:51 You donate one hundred dollars, you could be awarded the perks from the two hundred. Fifty dollars package. Donate two hundred and fifty dollars and you could get the five hundred dollars perks and so on. So make sure you tune in this Friday at seven pm, and remember, when you're donating to the Catnip movie, include the phrase a film buy in the comments of your Kickstarter pledge to participate in this cool contest. The website is Catnipmovie campaign dot com. Just click on the link you'll find in today's show notes and join us this Friday, November first, at seven pm. You don't want to miss this conversation or this contest. Hello everyone, and welcome back to nineteen seventy nine. In a Film Buy Limited series A Film at forty five.

1:36 I'm David Burns. And I'm Skyle Hoffmann. As usual, we're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever, the fresh look at modern classics and hidden gem so we can't stop watching. This week, we're talking about the start of a horror franchise with balls, sorry, spears that have that have drilled fear into our heads for decades. The one and only Fantasm. Boy, I've been waiting for you. Good game boy. The game is finished now you die. Boy.

2:28 If you're looking for horror that's got balls, it's found you. Phantasm the delusion of a disordered mind, a phantom, a spirit, a ghost. That's right, we are diving back into another classic horror film that gives us floating orbs that are out to kill anyone in its path, A tall man that will scare anyone, and a story that will keep you on the edge of your seat until the very last. Of course, as Scott mentioned, we are talking about Don Coscarelli's fantasm. There is a special place in my heart for this film, always has been, because I am such a fan of horror films, especially from this time period. Of course, we couldn't have timed it any better than we have, because we just recently got back from Scarefest in Lexington, Kentucky, where we got to meet a lot of this cast in person, and even the director himself.

3:21 We got to see and hear their passion for the film and its fans, which I know we are both very excited to talk about. But before we do that, Scott, please tell our listeners what this is about. Death is just the beginning, and it's never over. In this tale of two brothers who are relentlessly pursued by a sinister group of grave robbing, cloaked figures and their mysterious leader of the Tall Man, armed with deadly flying spheres. The Tall Man that is turning the dead into his own private army and pursuing brothers Jody and Michael as his next recruits with help from their friend Reggie, the brothers fight back to keep their small town from sinking into the depths of hell, one headstone at a time. If you like the mind bending side of horror, you'll love the granddaddy of them all, phantasm.

4:03 As I said, we recently got back from the sixteenth Scare Fest that is held in Lexing and Kentucky, and we really got to experience this film through the eyes of those in it and its creator. The only thing that was missing was a very talented and wonderful Angus scrim who sadly passed away back in twenty sixteen. But getting to meet them just before we discussed this film, we really puts it into a new place for me. You know. To me, there is nothing more special than small independent films, especially those in the horror genre. I believe this film had like a budget, I think like three hundred thousand dollars. But the reason I find these films so fascinating special is the fact that they are truly driven by passion. So many people have to wear different hats to get the job done, which helps create this family among the cast and crewe like no other. And you truly got to see that at these conventions, you know, when they're interacting with each other and their fans. It seriously makes you have such a different level of appreciation of a film when you experience this, which is why I highly recommend and I'm sure you do too, Scott, anyone who loves films and has a passion for them go to one of these convention and experience it yourself. Trust me, you will not be disappointed.

5:12 Yeah, I mean, it's it's clear when you certainly when you go to the panel like we had seen for Phantasm, a forty fifth anniversary panel that featured a lot of guests, and especially when you get a chance to go up to them at the tables, you can see how all of that passion and an excitement that went into this movie all those years ago is still fresh. And hearing the stories directly from those who put it together gives you an entirely new perspective. And as we'll talk about it later, it also gives back to those who made it. Obviously.

5:53 They you know, when somebody makes a film, not everyone is going to be a hit, not everyone is going to resonate with everyone in the same way. But they brought that perspective on how it really is so meaningful to to get that perspective from the fans and to hear different ways that it's that it's meaningful for people in different places in their lives. So yeah, I absolutely agree. This was when we knew we had to attend because of the breadth of the cast and the crew that was going to be there for this anniversary event. And yeah, it was. It was a gargantuan event that I'm sure we'll talk about some other time, but a great way to kick off this latest viewing.

6:44 It really is. You know, it's sitting there and listening to these casts, the cast of Fantastic and the director just talking about it, knowing that you and I are going to be talking about it just in a few days. You know, it just it. We got so much information from them that it was just just fantastic research based is really what it was. So with that being said, let's go into the funeral parlor at Morningside, walk down those marble halls of the maus and Willium, and take a peek to see what is hidden behind that door. So this film opens up with a really creepy music, which I thought they used very well throughout this film, they didn't overuse it. It leads us into the cemetery at Morningside, where we get our first glimpse of the lady in Lavender, played by the beautiful and talented Kathy Lester, where she is pretty much going to and does kill the guy on screen that we see Tommy.

7:38 So, yeah, you hit on a couple of interesting things there. Music does a lot to drive the story here, and music and sound almost become additional characters for me, those kind of other worldly growls and the snarls and all this other kind of stuff. You get hands of those in the beginning. But it really is such a simple setup. I saw a note from Don Coscarelli talking about how any good horror film has to start off in a graveyard, which is a great perspective to have on that, but that idea of it kind of turning this trope on its head, Like you always expect the girl to die in the early part of it, and it turns a lot of things on its head because not only is she the one that kills him, but she's a vessel for the tall man.

8:29 Yep. And what an odd way to introduce Angus in that role. I know, right, what just happened here because you got a glimpse of you know, uh what exactly like. But you know, as all good horror films need a creepy or fascinating location, you know, Jason has Camp Crystal Lake, Michael Myers has hadden Field, Freddy has Your Nightmares, and well the Tall Man here in Phantasm has the Morningside Funeral Home, which Scott is a pretty damn creepy, scary place just by looking at it from the outside. There is no way I would want to be creeping around that place, especially at night. No, not at all. And I mean I don't remember seeing any other horror movies that dive into the mausoleum itself, which I think is a stroke of genius. It is right, because there's a you know a difference between and I want to make sure that I'm not, you know, serroying an experience for people that are buried in a mausoleum or visiting family. But to be fair, you know, there's a difference between walking through a graveyard when it's kind of open and airy, to being in a building where you're surrounded by walls of those who have passed away, using that pristine kind of marble interior made it so much more imposing, and knowing that there was you know, bad things around the corner made it almost feel maze like in some scenes, which is brilliant, especially when that

10:00 sphere comes flying around the corner yep at very high speeds. Yeah, I mean it just floating through the hallways like that just made it even creepier in my opinion, And just the sound that you get from it, uh, just added to that that fear. So I thought it was used quite well in doing that. I know. Right after this, you know, it jumps to Tommy's funeral, and this is where we get our introduction to the main cast. We get Reggie Reggie who's played by Reggie Banister, and Jody played by Bill Thornberry, and of course Michael, who is watching them with binoculars from the distance, uh, played Michael bald One. Yeah, I know, right, they didn't want to come to the funeral. I guess because I guess Jody and him losing their parents was a year or two before I.

10:50 Believe it was, yeah, I think it was two. Yeah, And so I guess Jody was just basically protecting his brother from that, you know, didn't want him to see it. So but yeah, we get our introduction in them, and I gotta tell you, the first introduction to the tall Man still made me jump out of my skin when he slams his hand down on Jody's shoulder. You know I'm talking about And you know, sir, hello. Pretty polite for your boogeyman, right, yeah, I mean he's just like your derves already, sir. Okay, I mean he clearly you know, takes his job very seriously. But you know, in terms of casting, just to hit a couple of notes there, I think it's pitch perfect. Obviously because Reggie was written for Reggie Banister based on Register YEP, which would probably be a fascinating biography to go through on its own right. But the brothers Bill Thornberry and Malcolm Baldwin do a great job as Jody and Mike. You can see there's a lot of connection there. It was a great idea to rate them as brothers who are recently orphaned for lack of a better term, and their connection throughout that kind of protective nature is really unusual, I would say in this era. Usually it's you know,

12:21 a group of kids, and usually there's you know, trying to protect some females in the group and things like that. This is really about this trio, these brothers and this friend an Angus scrim As the tall man, I mean, the guy. I would love to have met him in public in his heyday because he has that imposing presence. There's throughout the movie he's just slowly strolling through hallways, you know, or standing there with his arms outstretched. He commands every inch of that screen. You couldn't know better casting with him. Uh, there's there's no doubt about that for sure. But let let's patsack a little bit of talk about Reggie Banister. One thing I did not know is he is a Vietnam VET.

13:12 You know, when we saw him at the convention, he had the Vietnam hat on and he took off as you know, he was signing autographs and stuff like that. You know, I basically thinking for his service. And his wife is a Vietnam VET too. Oh wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, So I found that quite interesting. Just me gave me a much more appreciation of not only Reggie Banister, but Reggie in this films too, because I look at me a lot differently now because He's a badass, right he really? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, Reggie and Gigi were fantastic. Hear from in the panel, Gigi has some continuation work that she's doing with novelization of Fantasm, so you can tell they both have they still have a lot of passion for this franchise, which, again, forty five years later, that's amazing.

13:54 Yeah, absolutely, I think didn't She even said that she scripted Part six and is in a book that she was selling, if I remember correctly, I didn't get a chance to purchase that book. I'm kind of regretting that now, but yeah, I mean, I'd really be interested to check that out. So listeners definitely hunt that book down. I'm willing to bet you could probably find them on Amazon or something written by the Gigi Banister and you know, so I definitely check that out to see how Part six might have been if it had come a film. But going on to the brothers a Michael Baldwin and Bill Thornbury, I totally believed they were brothers in this film because you really had that chemistry between the two of them, You had that relationship that you believed, you know, even and Jody was very protective, you know of Michael, and I like that. But you have a really odd situation here because Jody has that incredible car, but Michael is driving it, and Michael is only thirteen years old, you know, and he was only thirteen when he actually made this. But I found that very fascinating because that's something you typically wouldn't see because I mean a guy like Jody in that day when this was made, kind of like you hint it on, it's something I don't think a character of that would typically allow their younger brother to be the one touching that vehicle, let alone driving that vehicle, you know. So it just shows you that relationship between the two of them.

15:14 Yeah, I mean that's I guess you could consider the the car the third brother right, right, because just as much of an iconic product as franchise as they are. Yes, that black Plymouth Hemicouda with the pistol grip. Clearly it's been customized in a lot of different ways. Clearly it's been taken care of it in a lot of ways. And thinking about the fact that they have been on their own for the past two years, there's a point in the story of it. Reggie asks about like, so, what's going on? Are you gonna are you gonna leave him? Are you gonna whatever? But it seems like Mike had to grow up very quickly. Oh yeah, And clearly he's a pretty mature kid. I probably would have pegged him for more like sixteen than the the thirteen or fourteen that he's supposed to be in the movie. And clearly he's been taught to drive. Maybe it's by his parents before they passed away, or by Jody, but you can tell there's that trust that Jody knows that Mike can take care of himself, but they still have a responsibility to take care of each other, to look out for each other and keep them safe. I thought it was interesting to hear from Michael Baldwin that he actually did learn to drive on set at fourteen. That's one hell of a first ride.

16:31 Yeah it is. I mean we saw that car in person. Well, we saw a replica another car that is used in the franchise. That's the same kind of idea. Yeah, wow, Yeah, I mean a lot of us can remember kind of remember the first car that we tested in or learned to drive in. He's never going to forget how he first learned to drive on the set of Phantasm and driving the vehicle that he did, so, yeah, what an experience that would be for him for sure. So one of the things that I do you remember from the convention is a story about Angus scrim You kind of mentioned that how fascinating would being to run into him, like on the street or something like that, when you know he was alive. So Don Costarelli was talking about a moment of Angus Grim. Apparently he was at a market, you know, doing some grocery shopping and stuff like that, when a young boy kept looking at him.

17:24 So the boy eventually approached him and said hello. Angus, being very friendly as he was, looked at the boy and replied hello in his regular voice. The boy apparently looked up at him, recognized him, asked him to say it. Angus knew right away what he wanted, so he immediately went into character, raised his eyebrow, and in the voice he said, boy, I just that just shows you how fascinating Angus Grim was. Yeah, yeah, and how willing he is to share that with his fans. Yeah, right, every you know, when we get into a favorite scenes, everyone with Angus is a favorite because any poster is going to feature Angus with the trademark eyebrow and the spheres and without knowing anything about it, that's a pretty badass image there, and knowing that that's what's pursuing you, that it doesn't stop just like everybody else, but it has another level of that kind of reality bending, dreamlike situation. I know that there's some odd things about like was it all a dream?

18:37 The dream sequence, and also the kind of stuff at the end I don't personally believe, So I feel like what happened at the end was more of a dream. But you know, when I look at a lot of other things that followed this without looking at things that preceded it, When I look at things that follow like hell Raiser, like night Breed, like Nightmare and Elm Street that have that different approach to horror, you can absolutely see influences from phantasm. Oh yeah, and that's one of my most favorite, I guess subgenres of horror because it does leave you with more to kind of think about and pour into, and it kind of sparks the imagination to continue running wild. It also artistically allows you to do a lot more with special effects lighting in this is a whole other thing. Oh yeah, yeah, it's just fascinating to watch a movie like this.

19:34 I mean, this film's really dealing with aliens, right, You're dealing with another planet a portal that takes them to the other planet that we learn a little bit towards the end of the film. So, I mean, the Tommin really is an alien, and you know, you get the explanation of why those dwarfs jawwall creatures that are running around that are really creepy as grap so you get the reason why they're so short too, because of the gravity that's on the planet that go to. So, I mean, it is a horror film, but it's kind of got a sci fi element to it if you really think about it, right. True right there? You know how the spheres kind of convert people has a bearing on that as well, because the first time I saw it from the box art, it just seemed like the spheres would kill you in some kind of way. They go a lot further than that.

20:24 They drill into basically the center of your skull and apparently pour all of the blood out you see it squirting out the end of this thing. And then when any of these creatures. When the tall Man gets injured, it's almost like a yellowish custard kind of fluid replacing it. So it feels like that's almost part of the process, right, and reducing someone's size. They're becoming more compact and possibly because they're losing all the blood and having it replaced. I'm glad that we didn't see the hooded Henchman revealed. Yeah, no, thank you in this one, because I couldn't imagine seeing that.

21:05 I imagine that'd be pretty horrific. Yeah, no doubt about that. So we talked about the coupe vehicle. We already talk about Reggie's ice cream truck. Talk about it like that the economy of cars there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One of the scenes that I found so fascinating in this movie, Scott, and it really gives you chills, is the scene after Michael had already seen the Tall Man, saw what he had done, but it was like kind of his main introduction to the tall Man when he was walking down the sidewalk in downtown. Yeah, and Jody and. Reggie's with the ice cream truck just basically with the door open and he's working, you know, I guess putting ice cream into the truck, and the tall Man walks right behind him, just stops, turns kind of glances over to Michael, but he's but he's really kind of freaked out by it. I guess the the that's coming out of the react to that. You get that reaction, yeah, from the tall Man, but the mere fact that you have this major villain just standing right there next to one of our main characters and he doesn't even know who that is at that point, I just I love that scene so much. Man.

22:18 I love the mystery of it as well. So there's kind of a Pennywise element there in my opinion. When you look at like a modern day it just kind of like, wait a second, he's out here in public, doesn't care about the fact that he's being seen, and reacts in an odd way to cold. So there's various theories about is he reacting positively because of all the heat in his you know, other world. Yeah, maybe he's drawn to that, or maybe he's completely opposed to that because of the same kind of reasons. I think the fact that there's inherent mystery in that opens it up so that everybody's theory is right, because it doesn't really matter how he's reacting. It matters how somebody is personally thinking what's happening in there, But each person put their imagination into that to give a reason behind it is brilliant.

23:14 It is, and it speaks to the fact that he's like, he's a working guy. He still works for the cemetery. It's not like he's like hiding behind these doors exactly. He's out there picking up, you know, coffins on his own. Like that's pretty tough. And it's funny that you touched on the it thing because there's a scene when Michael goes with is it his aunt the two girls at the antique store and he's looking into that cabinet and finds the pictures and sees the picture of the tall Man back in like the eighteen hundreds, and it starts coming to life. When I saw that, I'm like, man, this this really has the Stephen king It vibe going on here. Of course this was before it, So I love that aspect of this film because it really it really attached me more to the film that other horror films at this time could have done, which is just that.

24:04 Yeah, I think it's a demonstration of don cost Rally's mastery of the beauty of patience. Yes, because when I think of that scene, it doesn't go to anything overt It takes its time, and that you're staring at this thing and there's little subtle movements and you think to yourself, is that actually moving before it zooms in? Before it gets into it? And he uses that masterfully throughout the entire picture. Yes, a lot of moments where he's like, I know where this is going, let's take a beat before we go there, Like thinking about when Mike is closing is kind of going through the room before the tall man kind of you know, breaks through the window.

24:48 He looks in that first one and you're expecting a jump scare, You're expecting something to happen. He's fine, he moves on to the next one. That patience helps to heighten the tensions much more and helps to kind of diffuse anybody's defenses to say like, oh, I guess there's no jump scare. Cool, and then it happens. Right, it's so much more impactful. It is it Absolutely, it's brilliant. It's what it is. But I'll tell you what, Scott, Let's take a little bit of a break we come back, we will continue our discussion about Phantasm. All right, listeners, welcome back to a film at forty five, where Scott and I are continue our discussion about the horror classic Fantasm. So, Scott, there is a scene in the film where Jody and Reggie are sitting on the porch just playing the guitars, singing and having a good old time in this horror film.

25:42 So apparently Bill Thornbury wrote that piece of music and they performed it in the film, which first off, is really incredible. I love to hear when actors can put their own music into a movie like that. So I didn't really know that. So when we went out to Bill, you know, Booth to get his autography, you know, and he was at that time, there was no lying. Thank goodness, I got there just in time for that, so we were able to have a little bit of time to talk to him. He was actually working on music that song on a piece of paper when we approached him, because people apparently ask about it all the time, so he actually sketches it out and I guess gives the fans from time to time when they're talking about it, and he will autograph it. So he was actually doing the music as we walked up to him, and we're talking to him about it. So I thought that was really fascinating in itself right there, that he was actually working on that piece of music when we walked up to him.

26:40 That's really cool. Yeah, And I mean, I think it's a brilliant idea to have a character like Reggie a character like Jody. There's a certain kind of, I guess, the dichotomy between the two because when you look at Jody, he seems like, oh, okay, so that's going to be the hero of the picture, right, It's all going to come down to Jody saving the day. Reggie. You know, he's driving the Kuda, he's super cool, he's got his leather jacket. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of inspiration for David Hasselhoff to get his Michael Dight look from Bill Thornberry in this one, especially with the black car.

27:23 I'm sure there's some connections there. But Reggie seems like the Danny DeVito to that Arnold Scheorzenegger there. Right to be fair, and that's not a dig at all. That's to say that he's you know, he's kind of setting up the audience for a surprise because he's you know, he doesn't have as much hair as Jody. He's driving an ice cream truck, not a Kuda. But he ends up having a lot of the heroic moments of this movie and becomes a continuing hero through the franchise. That's fantastic. So when you see these two characters on a porch jamming out and it feels like you're you're kind of passing by a moment noticing friends doing this just on their own, Like it looked like Bill and Reggie's were just doing it on set. It's It's a great moment and I'm glad that we had that in the movie.

28:21 It weaves together this kind of trifecta of brothers. You've got biological and brothers in friendship. Yeah, it is definitely a great combination. I like the cast of characters that we got here. I like when we the lady in Lavador who's trying to do her work on poor old Jody and it was starting to work. But thank goodness, Michael was this creeper who continues to follow his brother around. Pays off this time because he basically saves his brother from getting killed just goes run through the semetary as the evil Jawwalls were chasing after him. Funny enough about that too. I My understanding too is the Dwarves they were created before Star Wars did the Jawwalls, if I remember correctly, if I remember reading that correctly, So even though I use the term Jawwalls, I'm not picking on this film at all. You know, they are really creepy dwarves, Okay, yeah, especially when they're runn thro the woods chasing somebody would just pitch black out. That scares the crap out of me right well.

29:23 And I mean, you know, again going back to what I said before sound design, the fact that they have children in those robes that are always cloaked in darkness, so it's very hard to see what's going on. When you mentioned like Star Wars and this, I know that I had seen that they had talked about possibly changing their robes from brown to black, yeah, so that it wouldn't have so much of a connection. But I would say it's not absolutely necessary because they're always kind of shaded just right. Yep. The aspect that makes them even more creepier for me is the sound designed effects. It almost sounded like a dogs snarling in reverse. Be a cat, you know, I don't want to say him owing, but a cat kind of crying in reverse or something like that. There was always this other weird, worldly aspect to it that just made it so much creepier. It sounded like they were almost like chewing on something as they were pursuing him. Yeah, I'd probably run, you know, past my brother getting it on with some lady if that was happening, to say run, maybe drop the underpants out of your mouth.

30:33 And right well, say they're just so creepy. And then you'll get glimpses of them every now and then and you hear that that sound that they make like you were describing. It's just, man, they give you goosebumps. Just and even when Michael was in the garage working on the car, you were getting that again. You know, he was under the car working on it, and those creatures were supposedly in that garage with him, and they were moving around and making those sounds. There's another aspect where it gets into you know, we've talked about a lot of the the villains and the scary army and all this other kind of stuff. It kind of hits another level after Mike is able to chop off some of the tall man's fingers. Yeah, which is an interesting kind of progression there because so he captures the one figure that's still wiggling around. I loved seeing that. Costca really got that idea when he was drinking from a styrofoam cup and his finger happened to poke through the bottom and he saw that kind of affect.

31:40 You're like, yeah, that's independent, independent filmmaking, practical effects. I love those kind of things. But that it continues to link leak custard all over the inside of the box where he's keeping it until it eventually mutates into a giant fly, which you wouldn't think is like it's a fantastic scene because I mean, like, come on, it's a fly, So how much is it really gonna you know, how much is it really going to threaten you? But the things like you know, jumping around. All they had to show was that initial kind of puppetry work, and then they just have it wrapped up in a jacket, so they're just fighting a jacket until the stuff into a garbage dis. But it works so well, man, Yes, and.

32:23 They have to do it twice so that Reggie has a chance to come in and observe this thing firsthand, so that everybody's bought into. Okay, there's a legitimate threat. I did notice that. I think that's the first time that Reggie is knocked on his butt. Yeah in that scene. Yeah, interesting quote? Was it? There a story? Yah, go ahead tell it? Scott was so. On the Scarefest panel, they got into talking about stunts, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. There's there's some great uh stunt performers there. But don Coscrelli looked down the table at Reggie and said, Reggie, do you remember what we used to say at the start of every day? We always said on set, the day doesn't start until Reggie's on the floor. Yeah, he's he takes the brunt of it.

33:16 Man. He's in that you know room with all the the jahwa barrels that are getting sucked into the void. Yeah, he gets stabbed by the you know, the lady of Lavender. Yep, he's not having an easy ride, forget. He takes a bit. Yeah, he takes a beating, that's for sure. But like I said, Reggie's a badass. So and he proves that in this film. I want to go back. What did you think? So for me, the first introduction of the ball the sphere, when you get to see it for the very first time, you hear it and then it makes its appearance. I can remember when I first saw it back in the eighties on how creepy that was, because I remember seeing it in the trailer. They kind of hinted to it in the trailer, and you knew it was coming, so I guess you were kind of anticipating when you were going to get its first appearance, and there it was. You know, Michael got to see it for the first time, and so did we when it happened. Dude, I just thought that whole scene was fascinating. You know, you kind of touched base a little bit on it drilling into the head of the person. I remember on that panel they kind of talked about too that I guess there was like a tubing that kind of like ran up them into the sphere that you couldn't see on camera. Yeah, and it started shooting because it was just basically the tube of bee for the blood, the fake blood, and they would just start shooting out the back of the of the Sphere. I just it still creeped me out when that sphere made its first appearance. And this is I can't tell you how many times I've seen this movie, but it still creeps me out.

34:45 Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a mesmerizing weapon, right. Apparently it was built by Willard Green, who only charged the production of a little over eleven hundred for creating it. Unfortunately he died before he could see the work on the big screen. But it's a very simplistic, futuristic kind of a thing. I know that they talked about how you know, reverse photography was used, so they kind of have it on their forehead and then they pull it away. I had seen something about using a baseball pitcher to have it hurtling down the hallway. But you know, if you're seeing one of these things in real life, and I think you had a chance to hold one in your hand, didn't you. Yep, it's it's pretty big. It is it is really and it's a completely mirrored sphere.

35:37 So it has that kind of mesprizing effect that every probably everyone who's been around a Christmas tree at a young age can relate to. That idea of going to the ornament and just you know, leading back and forth and just being mesmerized by looking at this thing. It has that kind of captive, captivating nature. And then it turns into a flying Swiss army knife that seems to be unstopped. It's it's a great idea to have that kind of design, turning people into these, you know, other worldly creatures. Yeah, so it's fascinating. You mentioned that we get to touch the actual sphere when you go up to Don's booth to get his autographed talk to him, which, by the way, listeners, Don was absolutely incredible. Everybody in this cast was.

36:25 Yeah. But I'm telling you, Don would talk your ear off and he you know, you get your autograph and you get a picture taken with him, and the first picture, you know, is you know, the nice picture, you know, hanging out with him, But you had to make he would make sure you got a second picture with him with the spear coming right at your face, and he would he would control the sphere and make it look like it's coming at you. So, yes, I have a picture of that, of the sphere coming right up my face, and I will treasure that for the rest of my life. That's for sure. Yeah. I mean, aside from being somebody who's really person and approachable at a con, I thought he had an amazing voice. Yeah. I probably could have listened to him talk all day. Oh, absolutestly.

37:09 Yeah. So it makes me want to go and hunt down, you know, commentary tracks with him there, but also just hearing experiences that you and Jeff had with meeting him and him wanting to learn more about the two of you personally, right, each of your experiences with phantasm. That's the kind of experience that you want. It absolutely is the first time I went to his table, I had a beast Master poster. Anybody who doesn't know he directed the first The beast Master in the eighties, which is my favorite fantasy film from the eighties. So as soon as I put the poster down for him, he's like, oh the beast Master. He goes let me, let me tell you how difficult he is working with kids and animals. That was like the first. Yeah, well, especially when you're dying a tiger to become a panther, Like, yeah, that's probably not a very happy.

37:53 Cat, right, absolutely, yeah, but he gets some fun things. Oh yeah, me too, He get some fun things to talk about that, but I'm hoping I'm a hold over a future podcast where we're going to discuss the Peace Master. I'll save that for that. But to go back to the film, another part of that scene is when you get that standoff between Michael and the tall Man right after the sphere had killed that guy, so you know, and then you know, they get closer and closer and they're just like it's almost like a Western standoff right there for a little bit, and then Michael turns it just takes off running and dude, the tall Man can run. He ways going full glass trying to grab Michael as you know, racing through the hallways. Dude, that in itself was just as creepy as the damn evil Joe Walls.

38:38 Yeah. I mean he's got a hell of a stride. Yeah right, no, thank you no, and. You can tell that he's got a grip that's not going to let go. Yeah yeah, I have no interest in that. Thank you for creeping me out again and again and again. But no, it's a really good scene. I absolutely love that, And of course, you know, I love the fact too that, you know, to go back to the Finger a little bit, I like the fact that, you know, Jody who was on the steps with the shotgun with the finger in the box in the morning. I guess he had slept there basically protecting his brother, right because Jody was upstairs asleep. So Jody gets up, comes walking down steps and sees that, you know, Michael is sitting on the steps with the shotgun and it sound asleep. But I love the fact here how quick Jody was convinced by Michael. I mean, I grant it would probably convince too if you open up a box and the fingers and they're moving around and stuff like that shirt. But I love the fact that how quickly he bought into it. And the same thing with Reggie. You know how quickly they bought into it because they they were obviously very close with one another, so they trust each other and they would believe in each other, right, So you see that with those characters right there, And I like that because, I mean, obviously you got to move at a quick pace, especially in horror films. You don't have a lot of time to waste, so you didn't have to beat around the bushes like, oh my god, I don't believe you're gonna have to show me something and blah blah blah, they didn't do that.

39:57 Here you have characters who believe in one another and quickly bought into that. And I like that. Yeah, I think that's that says something about, like you said, the trust between this kind of trifecta. It also feels like it leads to that dreamlike nature of the entire story. When you don't have to spend a lot of time convincing people they are living in the same world in reality so they know what's going on, it definitely helps to speed up the pace he does and makes them more of united front instead of, you know, somebody trying to believe that there's not anything strange going on in this place. There's a certain amount of personal investment that the three of them also have in this because from Reggie's perspective, he just lost a friend with Tommy, so the idea that soon after losing him something is corrupting what's left of Tommy. Obviously, for Mike and Jody there's always the concern about their parents. There's a beat in there where both Jody and Michael reluctantly open their father's coffin. Yes, that was a masterstroke. Of adding a little detail where we didn't need to see bones, we didn't need to see a corpse. We see characters that are terrified of just the weight of that idea, I don't know, rather to be more scared of seeing if there's something in

41:30 there or if they're gone. Mike's seeds an empty coffin, which terrifies him because he knows what that probably means. Jody before then opens the same coffin and chooses not to even look at it. I couldn't tell if he was like, you know, reluctantly with one eye kind of looking, but it would be terrifying to see his father's corpse in there. So either way, just the idea of using that tension to not turn it into a jump scare, not turn into anything horrifying. But just know, like there's a personal side to this that's not just the creepy monsters. It's creepy monsters made from people that you love. Right right, let's o say what, Scott, Let's take one more break. When we come back, we will continue our discussion.

42:20 All right, listeners, welcome back to a film at forty five. Well, we are still talking about the classic horror film phantasm. So Scott apparently Michael is McGivern because that the exploding hammer that he creates to get out of his bedroom was a really fascinating invention, and a quick one at that. Yeah, and as a as a kid, I probably would have been fascinated at a As a parent, I was absolutely horrified to say, like, maybe just this once, have this blanking disclaimer that says don't try this at home, kids, Right, So many things gonna in south in that, And I know that Don has said in the past that he's very happy to know that there haven't been any reports of kids kind of emulating that, thank goodness. But I mean it goes back to this kid knowing how to fend for himself. Now, I think that's used to great effect.

43:12 But I also remember doors like that in the house that I was growing up in aren't necessarily like still reinforced doors. They're the cheap, hollow things you could probably break through pretty easily, throw your shoulder or piece of furniture into it. So I don't think he had to mcguy for it. But what a great little beat because it just reinforces Jody as a kid, a teenager that can take care of himself. Yeah, very very intelligent young man, and he definitely proves that over and over in this film. Well, let's talk about the ending of this film, Scott, So you kind of test base on the ending here where we think the whole thing was a dream. Michael wakes up next to Reggie and we learn that apparently Jody had been dead for a while, correct, And so basically Reggie's there to kind of help Michael get through this, and he basically tells him, hey, you know, let's once you go upstairs, get your things, let's go on a little road trip, you know, let's get your mind off of things, those kind of things. And of course then he goes upstairs and we get the ending that we get where you know, he gets the stuff, he shuts the door, and then there's the tall man in the mirror, you get boy, and then of course he gets grabbed to the mirror and gets yanked through it. Basically, I guess he's dead, right, So what do you think about that?

44:29 Theoretically, like he's theoretically transported or dead. And it goes back to like you know, a nightmare elm Street connection where at the very end, she's you know, at the end of Elm Street is it's not where she's it's where she drives off in the car. They pull up, they get ready to leave, and then the mother gets you yank. Through the door, through the window. Okay, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't like, you know, collecting a bunch of different endings but similar kind idea, right cause the audience to kind of test their perception of what reality is within this movie. It seems like it has kind of a Wizard of Oz aspect of it as well, where if the entire thing was a dream, is there any reality to Oz at all? Is there any reality to what's happening with the Tall Man and it's just coincidence that they happen to overlap. I kind of feel like I choose to believe that it's that that end scene next to the fireplace where he talks about having a road trip is the dream. That that's a portion where Michael is having a dream where everything they went through is a lie and that everything's going to be okay.

45:48 It feels like that would be his body kind of processing it and saying like, Okay, after all that you've been through, let's slow down for a beat so you can sleep and let you get into this experience. Right. Anything that makes it seem like everything up to that was a dream just breaks the kind of movie that I want this to be. Right, that is part of reality and we're watching people kind of process it. Yeah, what about you? What do you think now? I'm kind of in the camp with you on that one. I feel like the whole, the whole thing being the dream is kind of cheating me a little bit, you know, So I feel you're right. I feel like the part he is right there with Reggie is the actual dream and the rest of it was the real what we saw.

46:33 That's what I feel anyway, and that's what I want to believe. But you know what I like about that though? That tells us that it was written really well, because here we are talking about this forty five years later. Right, right, No, exactly. It's another one of those elements where it leaves enough mystery for people to pour into it. Yep. If somebody watches the rest of the sequels and it happens to explain some of that, so be it. But if somebody doesn't and they stay with this, it's something that they can continue to chew on for a while, and it adds to the rewatchability of it because it causes you to kind of test your own theories as you're as you're going through and it obviously leads the discussions like this. Yeah, absolutely, here we are and you know that's that's kind of things. You know, even the actors were talking about to their fans and stuff like that. You know, so let's talk about some of our experiences at this panel.

47:23 And you know at this convention, we were sitting at that panel listening to the cast talk about their experience with phantasm, those kind of things. One of the things that was brought up that really gave me the feel here was and I believe was Bill Thornberry who brought it up where he mentions about the fans that you know, they are there because of this movie you know that they created, but the main reason they're they're there is because of fans like us who appreciate, we love and we're there to show our love of this film. We show our love of the actors who were in this.

48:03 And Bill was even tearing up. You remember that when he was talking about this, he was actually cheering up when he was saying on how appreciative he is of the fans and the experiences that he has had at these conventions over the years, and he says it happens each and every time when people approach him and talk to him about him playing Jody, that you know it just the love that pours into this film, into its cast is just unbelievable. And he did the same thing to Jeff and I when on Sunday after the panel, when I went back to get his autograph on my poster, same thing. You know, I told you he was working on the music sheet, you know, from the song that he created for this film. But as we were talking to him and conversing about fantasm our love of it and talking about some of the scenes and the scene in particular where him and Reggie were on the porch playing the music, he was tearing up again talking to us, showing how passionate, how much he loves not only for being in this film, but being able to discuss and talk to people who also love what he brought to us.

49:11 I love that man, and when he talked about that in the panel, that just hit home for me. And then to actually experience that exactly what he talked about the next day when I went to meeting. That was just something else. Yeah, And I mean, you know, it speaks to this kind of experience and what you can get out of it as a fan. I know that experiences very and unfortunately there are sometimes when you come up to a table and for whatever reason, the person is somewhat disengaged or distant and you don't quite get that connection. I'd say more often than not, it's the opposite of that. It's a very positive, very personal kind of experience that you're allowed to have meeting a lot of people over the years Peter Cullen, especially for me, there are a lot of moments there where you can finally show that appreciation to the people that bring it to life. And if you're new to a con and you're not quite sure to expect, if there's a panel with the people that you want to meet, consider going to the panel first, because it does help you get a view of this person as a person, getting their personal perspective on it, and finding out how much of a connection they want to make with fans. That'll help you feel so much less nervous about going up to their table and actually making that connection. It was a great panel moderated by Joe Lewis, who we've seen a lot of other shows, does a great job consistently, but this is a panel while that included a Michael Baldwin, Bill Thornberry, Don Coscarelli,

50:43 Gigi Banister and Reggie Banister, Gloria Lynn, Henry, Kathy Lester, Lynn Eastman, and Sarah Scott Davis. Let me know if I'm forgetting abody there now. When they were asked a great question about when they knew that Phantasm had an impact and a life beyond just one movie, there are two stories that stood out to me. The first one was from Dawn and this is kind of a funny one who said that he always was always asked after every movie when they'd make another, And to paraphrase, he said that once the sequel came out, the previous movie was revered as a classic. So when p two came out, Phantasm two came out, they said it was too dark, I think, but that first one was a classic. And then when Phantasm three came out, they said it was too campy, but Phantasm two was a classic, and that that happened all the way through the last movie, which I think is Ravager. Yeah, and clearly people are coming back to these as classics. A lot of people go into them. They recognize that from the outset, which is easy to see, but it shows the longevity and the lasting power of these kind of movies. Yes, the other one, along the lines of what you were saying, we got great perspective from Gloria Lynn Henry from Phantasm III, who talked about the personal impact she's seen on fans and had a heartfelt reflection on what it means to her.

52:12 To paraphrase, I heard her say something along the lines of people come up to me and talk about how these movies help them through struggles with bullying or mental health issues or a rough time in their lives, and something they find in these movies helps them find the strength they need to get through it. When we hear those stories from fans, it doesn't just show us it had an impact. It gives back to us and tells us we're doing more than just making a movie when we hear fans. When we hear from fans, it means a lot to us. So again, if you have a chance to go to one of these have that kind of experience, just know that there's some reciprocity there. There's something that a lot of these aside from the money you're putting down for an autograph, it does give you a moment to connect with them.

52:57 She really touched on something there when she said that, and it really made me think about my past experiences with horror conventions. You know, she said somewhere when she was talking about that, and I can't quote her exactly, but she mentioned in what you were talking about on how horror films really bring out the best in people, and that's not exactly what she said, but it was something very similar to that. And she's absolutely right, because when I think back of my experience, not all my experiences have been really good at all the conventions, but when I think about horror conventions, I mean, these people are so friendly. And I'm not talking just the cast and the actor of the guest. I'm talking fans too.

53:40 You know, I can't tell you how many times I you know, you see smiles on people's faces as they're walking around the convention. They're meeting people who they never thought they would ever meet. They're getting to shake their hands, they're getting to hear their stories, they're getting their autographs, on pictures and posters and those kind of things. You know, it was just fascinating when she said that. It's like, oh my god, I never imagine to even think that a horror film could possibly, you know, be something healing for someone, but it is. He is absolutely correct when she says that, and I never ever thought about that at all. Well, yeah, and I mean the additional depth you get from what inspired her in her role. She talked about, you know, taking inspiration from Grace Jones, taking inspiration from Wesley Snipes to shape the character that she had to see that reflected in the fans that show how her inspiration built onto theirs is something you can't buy. I know, there's different opinions on you know, coming up to somebody, you know, meeting a guest and having an emotional story and emotional response. I think it's completely worthwhile though, because there are people that might think, like, you know, all I did was a cartoon character's voice, and it saves people a lot. That's what I had said to Peter Cullen, and it had an emotional response on him, and Gloria clearly had the same. She was tearing up talking about this,

55:13 but she powered through it, and she said, this is absolutely worth it. Guys. This is what we get into the industry for, even though it's something that they never expected to have. And not to get on a tangent, but it really takes you back to when you were a kid again. You know. It brings up such good memories of things when you were a kid. So when I went to talk to John Franklin from Children of the Corn, I told him, I says, man, I said, you scared the living crap out of me when I was a little kid, and he basically just raised his hands up in the air. Well, then I did my job, didn't I. Stuff like that, you know that just it brings you back to that first experience you had with these films, and you're getting to meet people you never imagined you thought you would get to meet, you know, I mean, for crying out, I never would have thought I would be standing right next to Malachi and getting with Courtney Gaines and just having conversations with him or anything like that, and getting to shake his hand and talk to him converse with him. Yeah, it's I'm going to keep glowing about conventions and please listen.

56:16 If you've never been to one, go experience at least one of them. Please do yourself a favor. Now, Again, not everybody's going to have the same experiences, you know, but I mean, for me, this event was just incredible and this cast of Phantasm was just phenomenal. And I love this movie before going to this weekend, but I love it even more now after getting to meet and greet and talk to these people who were in this movie and see if their passion and their love that has now bled into me. And I appreciate this film even more because of that. Yeah, And I mean, an experience like that tells me that I haven't seen a commentary track on Phantasm, but this leads me to believe definitely be worth a watch with that commentary track, especially if cosk Reley is involved, because he's a great storyteller, has a great voice, and you get to hear these kind of perspectives, these kind of behind the scenes things when we're talking about these movies, you know, forty five years later, obviously we're in the in the scary season. It's a great time to dust it off. And if you've seen it so many times that you'd know it by heart, maybe track down the commentary track and get a little bit of inside perspective where you get that nostalgia.

57:32 At the same time, it will definitely be in my rotation every October going forward. I have the typical films I always watch in October. This has now been added to my rotation that it will be watched every year in October just because of this of what happened. Yeah, for sure. So I do want to talk a little bit about the score. The music was by Fred Moiro and Malcolm Seagrave. I thought that it was really creepy when it needed to be. I know, Don didn't want to overuse the music. He did use it a little bit more than I think what he was anticipating to do. But I thought what he when he did use it, it was absolutely perfect and spot on throughout the film. It was never overused.

58:17 It was in the perfect spots at the perfect time when it needed to be, and I thought that helped fill out the film beautifully in my opinion. Yeah, I totally agree, especially the Is it fair to call it a theme? I would think so. Yeah, it had a pretty much a theme to it. Sure, it's just a few simple notes that again I'll make an Elm Street connection here because I think there's a similar kind of beat there, or a similar kind of approach. I guess I should say, just a few simple notes strung together with a very slow presentation that just adds to every whether it was a sinister scene or an action film, the scene and I think it was done really well. I know there's another interesting kind of music connection that I came across.

59:03 What is that? So apparently the song Ace of Spades was released after this movie was put out, I think a year later, and somebody had said that, let me compared Mike's head to looking like the Ace of Spades. Yeah, and uh spent the rest of the movie writing out lyrics on a notepad and the pencil apparently that was used was given to him earlier that day by David Soul from Starsky and Hutch. Oh nice, So that's true. That's a great connection to Motorhead. That is a fantastic connection. If that's true. I hope that is. That's awesome. I know you already mentioned a couple of your quotes that you got from the guest that we saw this weekend. One of the ones I found hysterical. So we approached a Michael Baldwin, you know, to get us autographs and talk to him a little bit, see how he's doing. So I asked him, I said, you know, we're getting ready to do a podcast on phantasm.

1:00:08 What can I tell the listeners? And he put his pen down, wasn't wna autograph, and looked right in my eyes and says, please tell them to stop asking why I'm not in phantasm too. Apparently he gets this all the time from people. So listeners, let's help him out. Let's not ask him anymore why he's not in fantasm too, because he's tired of hearing it. Leave them alone, Yeah, just leave him alone. Just celebrate the movies that he is in, because you know, we love we love a Michael Baldon and what he did and what he brought for us. So let's just celebrate that. Yeah, all right, So we don't really need to talk about the rewind because we both have already like glowed onto this film.

1:00:57 Just the biggest thing about this is, and get scrim what a what a perfect villain he was in this movie, if you would call him that, I just thought he was fascinating it. Yeah, and it's a it's a shame that we lost him. Yeah, would have loved to have heard some some things directly from him. But yeah, the fact that he was chosen for this I think he had worked with Don CUSKRELLI before. You can see why he tapped Angus for this movie about Yeah, that was perfect casting. And I mean I know that we usually talked about what if. I don't know of anybody else that was considered for these roles, but I can't imagine anybody else being considered for them.

1:01:42 No way. We got the perfect cast for this film without question. So the So the impact, Again, we've already talked to a numerous moments about the impact of what this has done for horror for its fans. One of the things that I think that we definitely should point out is just hearing boy has become recognizable just as much as we're going to need a bigger boat line from Jaws in my opinion, Would you not agree with that? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean it's a pretty simple line, but you can tell that basically means like he's coming to get you. Yeah, And I mean we got we get four sequels. We'll get three sequels all together beyond this one, so we get two three, and four. Well, no, we get five, we get four sequels. Yeah, so hopefully we'll get another one, but who knows any any anything's possible in this world.

1:02:33 So where do you see this at? I saw it on Amazon Prime? What about you? Yeah? I owned the whole collection except for the newest one, So I did watch this on on DVD because I feel like having a hard copy of this is worth having because it is a classic horror film. So cool, all right? Well, as always, I want to thank our listeners and hope you are excited as much as we are. We are coming to pretty close to ending our nineteen seventy nine. We've got a few more films that we have to covered. When did you see this film? Fantastic? Did it make a huge impact on you as it did us here as a film buying let us know. If you want to reach us, you can find us at www dot film buy podcast dot com. You can write to us at a film by podcast at gmail dot com. You can find us on all social media platforms.

1:03:20 Until our film REI will start well again, go out watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you'll discover next. Thanks everyone,