A Film at 45: Rocky II

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to
nineteen seventy nine in a Film Buys limited

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series A Film at forty five.
I'm David Burns and I'm Scott Hoffmann,

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and as always, we're dusting off
the end of a decade the changed cinema

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forever with a fresh look at modern
classics and hidden gems that we can't stop

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watching. In this episode, we're
stepping back into the ring for one of

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the biggest sports sagas in film history, Rocky Too. It's one thing I

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wanted your tree? What give me? When? Wit? Wait? Wait,

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you got the decision? Man.
I'm fun, but I didn't beat

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him. I just want to say
what there to my wife? You'll wait,

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dude, you adrid, I did
it. We are headed into the

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ring with the Italian Stallion Rocky Balboa
and Sylvester Stallone's Rocky two. But we

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are not doing it alone. Joining
us in this heavyweight rematch is a huge

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Rocky fan, and we had no
doubts he would be joining us for this

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one. We have the one,
the only Jeff Johnson. Jeff, Welcome

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to a Film at forty five,
guys. After so many episodes and so

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many amazing movies, you guys have
captured in seventy eight and already in seventy

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nine. I've been looking forward to
this one. I was so excited when

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you invited me on this one.
So thank you very much for that.

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Absolutely I got we wouldn't do it
without you. There's no way. Soon

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as I saw this on the list
of like and just go ahead and pimple

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jeff In, Oh yeah, that's
a good Yeah, absolutely so, gentlemen,

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I have a question, and a
very serious one. I must ask

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why do cowls wear bells because their
horns desert? Oh? I got it.

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I killed too many times. It
killed in third grade. I don't

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know why. It was laughing right, well, Scott, just like Alien

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that we recently covered, I'm hoping
that everyone has seen this film, but

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just in case they haven't, how
would you describe this film to them?

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Well? And hopefully those same people
have watched the first Rocky otherwise this will

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make a lot of sense. The
ring of the last bell is still echoing

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as we catch up with Apollo Creed
and Rocky Balboa shortly after their latest match

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shook up the boxing world. Rating
world champ. Apollo won the fight,

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but not as easily as expected.
This leaves Apollo plagued by doubt that's compounded

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by the public. Was Rocky just
lucky or is Apollo still worthy of being

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the champ. Rocky is also realizing
that post life isn't all that he expected.

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The money doesn't last long, and
everyone wants to cash in on his

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fame. All he wants to do
is start a nice life with Adrian and

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leave the fight behind. But the
last bell is still ringing. Apollo wants

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a rematch, and Rocky struggles with
a big decision. Go for another round

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risks his health and possibly his life, or leave the boxing world behind.

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This is a film that proves that
powerful boxing movies are about much more than

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what happens in the ring. This
is Rocket two, and you know,

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Rocky needs to learn how to budget
because he didn't do a really good job

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at that in this movie. Yeah, you know so much. I gotta

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tell you, so, he tells
Gazo. He clears thirty seven thousand dollars

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after you know, after the fight. Yep, taxes, taxes kill you.

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It's it's a shockingly small number when
you're watching it in twenty twenty four,

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But then you got to think adjusted
for inflation, that's nearly one hundred

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and sixty thousand dollars. So Scott's
absolutely right. He he blows through this

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money in a hurry. Well he's
bleeding right like it's it's just money that's

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going as the clock ticks and no
prospect of what to do next other than

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you know, weird Fred Flintstone type
commercials on the side. Right, he

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staffed to shave the poor guy.
Come on, let's give it a break.

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Yeah, not very good at being
an actor that, there's no doubt

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about. That. Failed at that, failed at the meat packing. Well

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he didn't fail at it. I
guess they just let him go. He

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hit the he hit the bad road
of it all, and luckily Adrian came

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through went back to work at the
pet store. Right, but let's back

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up a little bit. So this
film opens up what first six minutes seven

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minutes are the ending of the first
Rocky. We're getting to see a himt

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Apollo Creed uh duking it out a
little bit again. And then we pick

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up right there with the trip to
the in an ambulance to the hospital,

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and of course Pollo Creed wants to
apparently continue to fight there in the lobby

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of the hospital. Yeah, he's
a little upset, a little a little

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it definitely felt like I had some
Karate Kid two vibes right where it's just

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kind of like, all right,
right after the last one, here's where

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it, you know, picks up
kind of the aftermath of the fight,

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and yeah, he's he's trying to
taunt him in front of the press the

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whole time, and it's just kind
of like, guys, calmed down,

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Yeah, you can't walk, you
know, Scott, I liked I liked

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that you you mentioned Kardi Kid too, because I'm wondering and you guys might

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might have the answer because I don't. The beginning of this film, that's

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that six to seven minutes, which
is basically the end of the first one.

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You know, Scott had mentioned like, hey, if you haven't seen

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Rocky, you might be a little
lost. But but I don't know how

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lost you'd be because we get this
this uh, this this interesting opening.

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I don't know if that had ever
been done in a in a film franchise

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before, had it. I can't
recall if it had it or not.

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To this point, I don't think
so. And I mean some of the

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other sequels might not necessarily be picking
right up where it left off kind of

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ideas, right, It's kind of
like more of the same but in a

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different setting, right, Yeah,
because I mean right, I mean,

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the Rocky franchise kind of sets us
up as like this is we we always

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expect it, right when you when
you go to see Rocky three, you

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know you're gonna get the ending of
two, and when you see four,

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you know you're gonna get the r
inga three. It's when we expect it

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from from this franchise. I just
I think it's pretty cool, Like I

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don't recall that ever happening with another
film franchise. That is that is interesting

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to think about. But yeah,
I mean it sets up the whole story

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right then and there for you,
so you know what to expect. I

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mean, some good things happen to
Rocky here, right. You know,

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he gets he proposes to Adrian at
the zoo. You know, they get

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married, she gets pregnant with her
child. They get a house or a

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condo or a townhouse, wherever you
want to call it. So some good

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things have happened. He's retired.
You know, things are seemed to be

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going the correct way for Rocky here. But of course, you know,

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things come tumbling down for him,
and you know he's unfortunately gonna have to

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find his way back into the ring. And it's not just because he wants

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to. Obviously, it's Apollo Creed
who really pulls him back into that ring

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because he's what the Italian chicken,
uh basically is what Apollo is calling him.

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The one scene that I absolutely loved
is when he came home and he's

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loving on his dog, you know, the TV's on, and then you

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get that interview with Apollo, you
know, calling him out, and I

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think the interviewers too are calling him
out that you know, he needs to

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come back and do it, and
you could see it in his face his

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reactions, and he really didn't say
anything to Adrian. He just what turned

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around, walked up the steps and
uh, you know Adriane come out of

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the kitchen, you know, so
you could just see it on his face

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what was going to have to happen. It's crushing because you know, you

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get Conti's that that sad score,
that sad Rocky score, and there's so

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much going on inside of inside of
this guy that he's not he's not sharing

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with people and I'll go ahead and
say it, I this is some of

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I think this is someone Stalone's best
work in the Rocky franchise when it comes

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to emoting, you know what I
mean? You know Dave like, yeah,

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you know what I you know you
mentioned agent going back to the pet

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store. Just the shame and the
embarrassment that he has having that conversation with

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her. He doesn't want her to
do it, but he you know,

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he's kind of given. He's kind
of like, you wouldn't mind doing that,

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You're sure you want to do that? And when she's like, yeah,

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we need the money, he finishes
his workout. But then he gets

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that snarl that that Mickey loves,
and you just see the anger is releasing

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him when he's hitting that, he's
punishing that bag in the basement. I

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know there were some kind of autobiographical
beats from Stillone with this as well,

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right knowing that he had what was
it before this? There is Paradise,

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Paradise Ye Fist And both of them
did well, so they weren't necessarily failures,

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but they weren't as successful as Rocky. So I think maybe a lot

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of that went into his emoting.
Like you said, Jeff his performance in

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these scenes to be like, you
know, is this who I want to

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be because it seems like it's who
everybody wants me to be, and him

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him coming to terms who who he
is. You know, he has that

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moment with with Adrian that we we
just discussed, you know, don't I

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never asked you to stop being a
woman. Don't ask me to stop being

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a man. But again back to
his his his range that he shows here

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when he's like, you know what, I'm just gonna be what they expect

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me to be. I'm going to
be a fighter. Mm hm. When

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he goes to Mickey to say,
hey, let's let's get back in the

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gym, let's fight. Uh.
You know the disappointment that he gets when

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Mickey's like, you know you don't
you got the heart, but you don't

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got the tools anymore, and just
the desperation where he's like, hell,

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well maybe I could help out around
the gym, and you know, mix

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like what do you want to carry
towels and spit buckets? Where's your dignity?

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And he that line, you know, he's near tears stallone. You

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can see the tears welling up in
his eyes and he's like, I gotta

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be around it. Yeah, he
even says, you know, you're royalty

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around here, so you would be
seen on that, you know, just

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the idea that he's willing to sacrifice
his dignity just so he can be a

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part of that that world. And
like I said, the tears welling up

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in his eyes and then mix saying
all right, you know, see it

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tomorrow. And when his voice breaks, like when you listen and you hear

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his voice break it when he says
thanks Mick, you know, he's walking

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down those steps crying. Oh yeah, it's it's such a it's such a

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it's such a heartbreaking scene. Well, and it's one of it's one of

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the better rocky Balbo moments in this
entire franchise as far as I'm concerned.

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Yeah, well, I mean,
and I think he's feeling like not a

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lot of people are accepting him,
like he's not really worthy of Adrian.

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I think is part of the thoughts
that's going around in his head. Even

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when he's proposing, it's in his
usual kind of you know, the way

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he delivers the dialogue and his usual
speech pattern, but it almost sounds a

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little apologetic, like he's creeping into
it, like real slow, like testing

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the waters before he does it,
because I think he's always thinking, like,

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you know, I'm not good enough
for this lady. And for me

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to be able to continue to be
good enough for I got to do everything

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that I can't. Yeah, well, I think one thing to take in

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as well here, I mean,
think about this is the late seventies,

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and when we saw this the first
time, we were we were little kids,

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right, so we didn't at least
I didn't connect make this kind of

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connection. But think about the the
average guy going to see this in the

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in the late seventies and think about
Rockies, think about the hit that his

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masculinity takes because in the late seventies, like the man was the was the

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breadwinner, right, the man had
to provide for the family. The man

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like that. That whole, that
whole aspect, that whole way of looking

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at things. So you gotta wonder, like, you know, if you're

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if you're an adult male watching this
in nineteen seventy nine, how are you

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connecting with Rocky And what kind of
what kind of stuff is that you know,

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dredging up in your in your head? Yeah, you know, one

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of the things that really bothers me
in this is when Polly approaches Adrian in

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the pet store. Yeah, yeah, that's you know, I understand what

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Polly's trying to do, because I
mean, let's let's let's really think about

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this. Rocky was struggling in training
because his mind was not in it,

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because he thought Adrian didn't want him
to do it right. So he was

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struggling on training and we're getting closer
and closer to the fight with Apollo,

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and Nicky's right, man, you're
gonna get yourself killed. You know,

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even got there to embarrass yourself because
you're not ready for this. And I

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forgore with the number he threw out
there. It's like forty five minutes.

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You gotta do what forty five hundred
hours or forty five thousand? That's what,

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forty five thousand minutes. And you
know they didn't have time to waste.

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But Polly approaching Adrian like that in
the pet store, man, that

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just broke my heart because it's like, what are you doing? Man?

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You know she's pregnant, she's working
her butt off, and you approach her

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like that. Really? Yeah,
I mean, I'll tell you Shires,

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another person that has great performances in
this and I've always felt sorry for Adrian

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because she always feels like somebody who
probably has a history of mental or verbal

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abuse in some way. So you
know that she's always kind of wilting,

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she's always kind of like bowing her
head, possibly with family, possibly with

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Pollie, And that's that's not the
way to go about it. That is

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absolutely not the way to go about
it, and it big backfires in a

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big way. Scene. This scene
is so important not only to the film

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but to the character of Polly because
we need to see he's always been that

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guy that you don't like him,
but you have to love him because he's

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family. And when you think about
his relationship with Adrian in the first film,

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Scott, You're absolutely right there is
there's a long history of abusive,

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abusive treatment where he is. He's
always been ragging on her. He's always

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been, you know, tearing her
down, whether it's emotionally or mentally.

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Uh, you gotta wonder physically sometimes. But this scene kind of harkens back

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to the that whole, that whole
thing in Rocky where we need it so

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that she can make a stand right
she does. She met she does a

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great moment, the pivotal moment of
the first Rocky film where she loses it

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and she's like, what do I
owe you? I do? You know,

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she kind of she stands up for
herself the first time. Yeah,

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you can't expect that the relationship is
mended in that moment. So we're gonna

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have to see it through the rest
of this franchise now, albeit it gets

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a little bit more easy, I
guess, a little more, a little

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more nicer along the way. But
but that moment, you know, he's

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Pauli is one of those guys,
like you got to take issue with him,

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but you can't be all the way
angry with him because he's just trying

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to help. He's not doing it
the right way, but he's just trying

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to help. In this scene,
in this moment, it was it was

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00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.320
just tough to watch. You know, It's exactly why it was there.

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You know, it's it's tough to
watch, but you know it leads us

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eventually. We we know she goes
into a calma. You know, she

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has the baby, Rocky still struggling, and it leads me to another scene

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that I absolutely love between Mickey and
Rocky when they're in the chapel. That's

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another one of my favorite scenes in
this movie. And you know, Mickey

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again, you know, he knows
things are going on, he knows Adrian's

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and Acoma. Rocky is struggling with
that, but he still has to approach

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him about, you know, being
in the ring, you know, because

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it's important to him, because he
doesn't want to get Rocky killed for crying

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out loud. You know, he
knows he has to get prepared, and

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they're running out of time, and
it's just that conversation they have right there

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I thought was really really not a
good place to do it, maybe not

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with what was going on with Adrian
before the story. I think it added

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so much more depth. Would you
guys consider that moment with Burgess Meredith,

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Would that be one of his better
moments in the three movies that he's or

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the four movies that he's a part
of. I would say yes, I

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think so. You know, he
clearly he's a surrogate father for Rocky yep

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and Dave, I think you hit
it right on the head, like a

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good father. He's trying to explain
to him what he needs to do,

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what his responsibilities currently are. But
He also, like a good father is

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like, you know what, I'll
sit here with you. If that's what

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you need to do, then I'll
stay as long as you as long as

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you like. So it's a very
tender moment and one of the better moments

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for Mickey Goldmill as far as I'm
concerned. Yeah, I totally agree,

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and I mean the fact that he
he wants him to succeed because he wants

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to see Rocky succeed. He doesn't
want to ride the coattails of that and

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be in the corner of a multimillion
dollar chant. He just wants this kid

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that he's always believed in to be
able to do the best that he can

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and find happiness in a way that's
you know, not breaking legs or breaking

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the law, right, It's about
loving him and supporting him wherever he is,

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whatever he decides to do, and
knowing that there's moments to push and

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there's moments to prop him up.
I think Purchas Mary that does a fun

250
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nominal job in this aside from being
absolutely golden entertainment every time he's on the

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screen, especially like the scene where
he's you know, having him chase the

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chicken and his voice is breaking a
little bit, and that whole uh,

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that Popeye type inflection that he has
is just it's just entertaining to listen to,

254
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like God in another world. I
wish there was a Popeye movie starring

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Burgess Meredith. That would just be
amazing. It kind of reminds me of

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when we covered foul Play last year
when he played mister Hennessy. Remember you

257
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guys, you guys did that one
with Jason Colvin. That's a that's a

258
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fantastic episode. I love that one. Every time I see my screen,

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I think you have missed mister Hennessy
and I just laugh. But yeah,

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Birds, Meredith knocked it out of
the park in this movie. There there's

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no doubt about that, you know. And he does stick right there with

262
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him, you know, he's there
in that entire montage where Rocky is,

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you know, reading the books to
Adrian, right there with her the whole

264
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time and builds up to Jeff I
know, is one of your favorite moments

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when when she says There's one thing
I want you to do for me win.

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That was just spectacular moment, right
that. That might be the best

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kickoff to a Rocky training montage in
the entire series, as far as far

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as I'm concerned, he is.
Rocky is just so happy and elated that

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Adrian's out of the coma. He's
just moving wanting to move forward. Hey,

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you don't want to mix it with
Creed no more. We'll figure it

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out. And when she gets behind
him, you know, because we know,

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like typically, Adrian is not overly
supportive of Rocky's fighting career. And

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it's not because she doesn't think he
can win. It's because she's she's concerned

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for his health and as well being. Right the first movie, she comes

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from a position of why do you
want to fight? And you know,

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and it's not that she has a
choice in it. She just wants to

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understand it. But in the second
one, she does understand it, and

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she knows the consequences and she's and
then you know, this is where we

279
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see Adrian take that stance of you
can do anything you want, you just

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you don't have to be a fighter. So for her to get behind him

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like that and just you know,
one thing I want you to do for

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me win And then Kanci's score hits
yep, Mickey, what are we waiting

283
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:23.119
for? You know? So good, We're already behind Let's go. Yeah.

284
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So I you know, I've seen
this movie a thousand times probably,

285
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and every time when that happens,
I jump up. Yeah, you know,

286
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I'm excited. It is an incredible
moment. And yeah, and leading

287
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into that amazing montage of Rocky training
which we see us so much. But

288
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man, you just cannot get enough
of that at all, and Kanti score,

289
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how it just builds and builds and
builds, and then we go into

290
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the running scene where he runs and
you get all those kids running behind him,

291
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and then when he goes full speed
and you just hear that go,

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go go, and he just digs
off running and that score. Oh my

293
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god, man, just it gives
you a chill. It's give me kills

294
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:07.480
now. Yeah. Well, and
what's awesome about this moment we get and

295
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.839
I got a lot of this credit
goes to Kanty, right, because we

296
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.839
get the going the distance track from
the time that you know, she says

297
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when we get a whole training montage, and then that segues into the popular

298
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track from the first film, Gonna
Fly now. So it's like it's almost

299
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.319
like double double bill CONTI greatness because
we get the fight the training montage and

300
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then it goes right in this running
which I don't know if you guys looked

301
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:38.880
into this, but Andy, Tom
and I when we talked, when we

302
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talked Rocky on the nineteen seventy six
series, which was a fantastic episode.

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He's from Philly. If you're running
from South Philly to the museum, Yeah,

304
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:56.839
it's just over thirty miles. Rocky
steps at the end, Yeah,

305
00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:02.960
and then steps. Rocky is doing
four miles more than a marathon on one

306
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of his training days. I just
is that ridiculous? Absolutely, but I

307
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still love it. I still absolutely
love it. You know. Well it

308
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:12.319
makes it a kind of an interesting
time capsule too, because he runs up

309
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.680
to the top of those stairs and
there's no Rocky statue yet. Yeah.

310
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Right, but you see what it
means to Philly, You see what it

311
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means to all these kids that are
running right alongside with him, And yeah,

312
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:30.079
it's a powerful moment. That's when
with Creed making the fight there in

313
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.400
Philly just fed into Rocky, which
was a silly move on Creede's part.

314
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I understand what Crew was trying to
do. He was trying to, you

315
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:37.880
know, he wants to embarrass him
on his own turf, you know,

316
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.640
those kinds of things. But you
know you're feeding into those fans, You're

317
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.279
feeding in the audience as you know, you know, fans can really win

318
00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.519
things for people, football, baseball, you name it, and you just

319
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.119
the athlete just feeds off of that, you know, and you know I

320
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.200
felt it did it in this too. So let's talk about this final fight,

321
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.920
guys, very very interesting. I
know a lot of things happen,

322
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.400
and despite a lot of choreographing going
on, there's some very humor here too

323
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.799
that I found funny. So when
they are in the ring together and Creed

324
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.200
comes up, you know, they're
getting their introductions and stuff like that,

325
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:17.400
he says that you're gonna you're going
down and he goes back and Rocky is

326
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.000
like, you know, uh,
he's still angry, he's still upsett.

327
00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:26.119
Yeah. Well, even when it
comes out, you know, he's he

328
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.279
kind of mentions a you know,
Mickey's like, it's a polo. He's

329
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:33.680
like, who do you expect?
He's like, he's kind of hope he

330
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.759
wouldn't show, you know, but
can we talk a little, you know,

331
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.559
you want to talk about this fight. Can we talk about how great

332
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:48.319
Carl Weathers is doing in this film
because he's I love the fact that he

333
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:55.440
has established the iconic character of Apollo
Creed in the first film. He's you

334
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:57.279
know, he's we all know it's
a play on Muhammad Ali, right,

335
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.839
yep. And he's he's a bit
of a prankster. He's a jokester.

336
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.440
He's he's smiling throughout throughout all of
Rocky One, he is smiling and have

337
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:10.160
a great time. The man does
it smile once in this film. He's

338
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.680
playing It's almost like he's playing a
whole new character. This is a this

339
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.960
is a different side of Apollo Creed
that we've never seen. The guy is

340
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:21.480
angry, he's bitter, he's he's
feeling challenged because everyone, you know,

341
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.880
everyone's saying, ah, yeah,
you carry the guy. It's a fake

342
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.039
it was a fake fight. You
know. I love. I love Carl

343
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.480
Weather's Apollo Creed in this one.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it makes

344
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:37.039
it very important to the entire franchise
overall. What we see in the next

345
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:47.039
few Rocky movies. This is very
important for Apollo's arc. It's tremendously important

346
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.960
for somebody like me who's a giant
fan of the New Creed movies. Oh

347
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.079
yes, and the background that you
get seeing this kind of movie, seeing

348
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.559
where his mental state was, wondering
at what point did Adonnis come into the

349
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:07.559
picture to see him as a boxer, as a champ that's theoretically near the

350
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.680
end of his career, as this
up and coming boxer, as just at

351
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:19.000
the beginning of his right and also
aside from you know, the talent is

352
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:25.279
a boxer, there's the the businessman
side of him who knows exactly what to

353
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:30.720
do. He's got that savvy that
Rocky isn't anywhere near having. But he

354
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:37.279
sees what that could possibly do to
how he's providing for his family, how

355
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:42.599
he's creating a legacy for himself,
how he's you know, he's got a

356
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:48.119
lot of people in his corner that
are depending on him, and it's it's

357
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.559
a phenomenal performance, Dave. I
think one thing that you mentioned that's what's

358
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:56.160
kind of interesting is choosing to have
it in Rocky's hometown. Technically it's a

359
00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:02.799
it's a win either way. So
if Apollo wins, then he's humbled this

360
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.519
man in his own hometown, so
he has that to kind of build on.

361
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.799
If he doesn't, then he's made
it possible for this hometown hero to

362
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.839
make this big achievement in his own
hometown. So either way, it's a

363
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.640
win for the press, I would
think, and it's a win for Apollo

364
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:26.079
to be able to benefit from that. Carl Weathers just has like you said,

365
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:30.440
he doesn't smile on the whole thing. It's It's a powerful performance and

366
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.880
absolutely necessary for this character. I
think one of the other things noteworthy about

367
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:40.519
about Apollo Creed in this one is
he, for the first time in his

368
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:45.519
career, is dealing with doubt and
pressure the way we see Rocky dealing with

369
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.440
it again. I got to call
it the scene where he's with his entourage,

370
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.920
right and he's trying to promote the
fight. He's trying to figure out

371
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:57.319
how to get Rocky back in the
ring. And Tony Burton, who plays

372
00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:00.079
Duke, Yeah, he's just you
know, when when you think about the

373
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.079
first movie where they're all hanging out
and just like, ah, yeah,

374
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.279
we're you know, they're talking business. It's not about training, it's not

375
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:10.720
about you know, keeping Apollo Creede
safe because he's untouchable in the first film.

376
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.920
This time around, I love that
Duke's like, let's move on,

377
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.920
let's let's go away, And it's
my favorite. It's my all time favorite

378
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.000
moment for Tony Burton's Duke, that
that line he gives him, you know

379
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.880
when well, first, you know, Polo Creed's like, do you think

380
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.960
I beat him? He doesn't immediately
respond with a course champ. You know,

381
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.240
he doesn't, he doesn't, he
doesn't protect him there. He looks

382
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.319
the other way because he doesn't want
to his pants and he's like, yeah,

383
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.440
I don't know if you want me
to answer that with the truth,

384
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.319
right, Yeah, but he's like, he's like, why don't you want

385
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.559
me to fight him? I love
when he's like, I saw you beat

386
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:51.319
that man more than any man has
ever been beaten down before, and the

387
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:55.759
man kept coming after him. Yeah, yep, we don't need this kind

388
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:00.200
of man in our lives. Like
he's he's trying to protect Apollo the way

389
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.200
Mickey's trying to protect Rocky's Tony.
I love love that moment for Tony.

390
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.319
Yeah, no, that is a
really good moment before we talk more about

391
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.559
the boxing. Let's Rocky his list
of things he wants with the money he's

392
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:18.039
getting. Come on, that was
hysterical, was it? Ernie Kermit?

393
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:25.920
And yeah, I love it.
Yeah, you like snow cones, don't

394
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.720
you. I love the fact that
this is done at a time when the

395
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.640
Muppet Show was taking off in real
life. Yep, the loan had recently

396
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.359
done an episode of the Muppet Show. So to get a little Kermit not

397
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.000
in there, that kind of makes
me smile. It did, Scott.

398
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:41.160
Scott was gonna ask you because I
was wondering. I knew stillone had done

399
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.480
the Muppet Show as as Rocky Balboa, but assess me straight the Muppet Show.

400
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.799
And I was just like, well, Scott's gonna know, like,

401
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:53.160
is this before Rocky too? Is
it after Rocky too? Yeah? Again,

402
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.200
like just Rocky. I don't know
what to say. I don't know,

403
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.319
I don't know what to call it, but just his just the innocence

404
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.160
that this character has, which is
a funny choice of words when you think

405
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:10.319
about him being a thirty year old
former enforcer for the mob. They always

406
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:15.400
elect wretor and collector, but he
has like this childlike innocence when he's when

407
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.559
he's talking about his family, when
he's talking about his wife and his soon

408
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.880
to be born child. I love
that moment, David. Yeah, it's

409
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.519
funny too. It is. So
let's go on and talk about the boxing

410
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:33.000
between Rocky and Apollo. I have
seen this movie many times, but I

411
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.920
got to tell you it still puts
me on the edge of my damn seat.

412
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:40.960
You know, when you get to
the end, they both fall down

413
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:45.279
and you get that final countdown and
both of them are trying to get up.

414
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.920
Rocky is getting there, and we
get to like what seven, and

415
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.640
they're still neither one of them are
up. I'm not kidding when I tell

416
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.559
you that I still streamed at that
television get up as loud as I could,

417
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.720
knowing I know the end of this, but I was still so involved

418
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.039
in this fight because it's filmed so
well that I couldn't help myself. It's

419
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:14.000
it's very hard to believe that Rocky
makes it that far, given how many

420
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.000
times he's punched in the head.
Like at the fight choreography, it's it's

421
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.799
like bouncing back like a like a
speed bag. Yeah, knowing what happened

422
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.200
in the previous movie, it's like, it's how is that possible? This

423
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.519
could this could have happened again?
And guess that very very tense climax.

424
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.759
Yeah, and those those slow motion
scenes that you get like those. Some

425
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:41.160
of those shots are brutal when you
see their faces and stuff going sideways,

426
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.720
and oh my god, it's it's
so intense. We got to think about

427
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:52.319
the the physical pain that Stallone is
in while they're filming this, because you

428
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:55.880
know, I we got to talk
about the South Paul switch situation. Oh

429
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.880
yeah, go ahead, you know
if you don't mind, this is what

430
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.119
this is again. This is this
is genius where you know, anytime you

431
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:07.400
have a writer that or a director
that can that can adapt to a to

432
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:12.720
a real life situation that they weren't
planning for. You know, Rocky Balbo

433
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:17.680
is a South Paul, and Mick
has this idea like, hey, we're

434
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:22.319
going to fool Apollo Creed because you're
not gonna fight left handed. We're gonna

435
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.759
you're you're I'm gonna train you to
be a right handed fighter. And the

436
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:29.319
idea behind that, where where it's
born out of, is that, uh,

437
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.920
Stallone has a training injury when he's
working out with a bodybuilder Franco Colombo,

438
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:38.039
m hm, he's he's doing two
twenty four reps. There's a the

439
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:45.279
weight slips, Stallone tears his his
right uh pectorals major and they do a

440
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.519
quick surgery and he's he's back on
set like that. You just don't do

441
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.160
that, you know, And the
idea, yeah, they had to,

442
00:30:55.319 --> 00:31:00.599
they had to reattach it. So
while it's somewhat of ascess, he can't

443
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.440
fight. He can't fight left handed. So they're like, okay, well

444
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.400
here's our idea. Well, you
know you can you can throw your you

445
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.000
can throw your your right hand,
so let's do that and we'll we'll make

446
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.599
it this whole strategy thing that Mickey
gold Mills come up with. So I

447
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:22.480
love that for the fight because the
guy is still in the ring with a

448
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.160
seasoned athlete and Carl Weathers who can
who can throw his weight around? He

449
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.079
can, he can, he can
do some damage if he wants to,

450
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.759
and and he does. And so
when you see some of these these uh,

451
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:37.359
these physical grimaces that that Rocky Babo
is giving, it's because he's he's

452
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.519
in serious pain. It's it's real
pain that he's feeling. That's that just

453
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.319
adds so much more depth to the
film when you look at it that way

454
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.640
and think about that, that's that's
dedication, right, there's what that is

455
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.079
mm hmm without question. And you
know, in speaking of Sylvester Stallone.

456
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.440
He had to like fight tooth and
nail to direct this, just like he

457
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.319
did to star in the first Rocky. Is that right? Yeah, Dave,

458
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.440
that's a right point to get into. Let's take a quick break and

459
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:07.720
we'll talk about that in a few
other moments. Through the Lens, all

460
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.519
right, welcome back. Everybody's continue
with through the Lens and I talk about

461
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.559
Rocky too here. So yeah,
you know, Sylvester Stallone basically had to

462
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:17.799
fight tooth and nail to direct this
film, kind of like he did his

463
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:22.240
star in the first Rocky, you
know, because I know the previous two

464
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:23.759
films that he had done. You
know, they were successful, but they

465
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:29.279
didn't see them as huge success and
they were kind of concerned of him,

466
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:30.759
you know, not only starting in
this but directing it, writing it as

467
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:35.319
well, but they didn't think he
could handle it. Boy were they ever

468
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:39.359
wrong. John G. Albatson he
declines this one right because he's he doing

469
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:44.920
pre production on Saturday night fever.
I correct, yep, Yeah, So

470
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.640
I mean better to do this than
right. It's gotta Stillon. He pours

471
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:54.400
a lot more than you know,
writer director Starr. Apparently he also did

472
00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:59.440
the novelization. Oh yeah for this
right, yeah, which seems like it'd

473
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:04.000
be interested in because it's all all
of Rocky's parts are written from his perspective,

474
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.000
in his voice, you get kind
of a third person for everybody else,

475
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.799
like Apollo and whatnot. But kind
of interesting to think about that.

476
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.680
In addition to the fact that he's
the fight choreographer. Yeah, he's basically

477
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.519
in charge of plotting out how every
punch would land. He and Carl Weathers

478
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:24.039
are training and choreographing this fight for
two and a half months, so that

479
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:31.960
every single telegraphed move is it's second
nature to him. And even then there's

480
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:36.200
some mistakes, right, Dave,
Yeah, isn't there an incident that happens

481
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:42.759
in the boxing match where I guess
they both land some punches against each other

482
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:46.519
and they're actually shoving, pushing,
haunting each other, which is in the

483
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:52.759
film that's actually them mad at one
another, because if they had actually landed

484
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.319
some punches on each other, that
shouldn't have happened. But they kept it

485
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:59.039
in the film because it looks so
good, so real, because it is

486
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:01.960
right if you're watching for it.
It's right around the end of round two,

487
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:06.039
there's a bunch of shoving and taunting
and things like that, and apparently

488
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.559
stillone like the way it looked so
much that he kept it in, which

489
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:13.199
makes it all worth it, right, Yeah, but he's got to have

490
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.639
a little bit of an extra edge
on him because he's fighting injured, Jeff,

491
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.880
Like you said, well, you
know, get in, get in

492
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:24.000
Sloane's headspace for a minute. He
has spent two and a half months working

493
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.280
this out right, so there shouldn't
be any mistakes. On top of that,

494
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.360
he is in some serious pain in
the ring trying to trying to do

495
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:38.000
this post surgery. As it happens, I guess Carl Weathers misses a few

496
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:44.800
a few moments and actually lands one
or two real punches. So stallone,

497
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:47.360
you know, he's anger getting the
better of him, decides that he'll land

498
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.119
a few of his own punches,
and before you know it, like they're

499
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.280
they're ready to swing for real.
And that that moment is such a great

500
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.679
moment in the fight because it just
boils over, right, I mean,

501
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:01.760
you know, it's like the stands
clear, everyone's got to jump in and

502
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:07.199
keep them separated. And you're like, oh, you're excited, you know,

503
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:08.519
put you you can't wait for around
three to start. I think,

504
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.599
Yeah, it's the genuine intensity that
you see in that scene, and it

505
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.000
pays off so well. Yeah,
I mean it kind of stuck that that

506
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.440
happened between the two of them,
but the fact that it shows so well

507
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.159
on screen it was worth it in
my opinion. Absolutely well. I mean,

508
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:27.119
on top of the two months of
planning the time that they had to

509
00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:30.519
film it, they took eight more
months to edit just that final fight scene.

510
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.760
And as the choreographer, you got
to kind of think, you know,

511
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.079
as much as you're in charge of
making sure that you know when people

512
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:42.320
are going to punch, when people
are going to take a hit a certain

513
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:46.239
way, how they're going to react, you also have to know how to

514
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:52.320
manage the safety of this situation and
you have to know absolutely when to leave

515
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.679
emotion out of it. And for
Stallone, I imagine, you know,

516
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:04.079
in the moment, it's the harder
to control than others, but he's probably

517
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.320
also invested in, you know,
the moment, like, do I leverage

518
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:12.440
this in such a way that I'm
you know, making a better scene basically?

519
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.639
Yeah, So, Jeff, I
think there's a real fighter in this

520
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:20.639
movie, Is that right? Oh
yeah, I didn't know if you guys

521
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:24.280
had caught that. If you look
at the guy that is a Rocky Babo's

522
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:30.639
sparring partner back of gold Mills,
that is none other than Roberto hands of

523
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:37.440
Stone Doran. This guy former world
champion in four different weight classes. If

524
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.840
memory serves, I think he's only
the second fighter to ever fight in in

525
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.599
five separate decades. Guy's a legend, you know. And I want to

526
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:52.519
say it's Miles teller What five ten
years ago they did a Hands of Stone,

527
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:55.000
they did a movie about him.
I think Miles teller By played the

528
00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:00.000
role. But yeah, just it's
it's fantastic when you see a legend,

529
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:04.440
you know, in a film like
this. It's before he's a legend,

530
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:06.239
right, it's like, hey,
who is you know? And if you're

531
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:07.679
like I said, you know,
I love boxing, I love M M

532
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.079
A and all that stuff. And
when you catch that, you know,

533
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.480
you don't see that as a young
kid, but then as you grow up

534
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:20.360
and you're become a fan of some
of these these amazing uh boxers over over

535
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.760
time, he's like, whoa,
it's Roberto Duran fight with Rocky. What's

536
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:29.000
up? Let's go around one another
thing that I caught that I found kind

537
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:30.880
of which is it's just you know, a coincidence that was happened in it.

538
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.239
But right before the fight when one
the announcer states that Apollo wants to

539
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:46.679
draw first blood. Yes, interesting
alone. There's even when he was training

540
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:50.400
he had the red the red bandana
on. Yes. I was like,

541
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.719
oh my god, this is like
Rainbow again. You know, I could

542
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.199
talk all night about why I love
Rocky too, and I feel it's probably

543
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:01.760
the best of the sequels to Rocky. But you know, you are you're

544
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:07.000
getting a little bit of the DNA, the John Rambo DNA in Rocky two

545
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:08.880
because he's wearing the red hit headband
you know, and this is more of

546
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:13.800
the shaggy Rocky haircut that he's got. It's dude, A Ham's out there.

547
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:15.719
Yeah, Paula's gonna draw first blood. It's like, ye, he

548
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.320
knew what he was writing, we
know, as a reporter out in the

549
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:22.840
audience with the pen and papers going
on. But that's a gold mine.

550
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:28.960
Yeah. I think it's also interesting. Like we talked Dave, I think

551
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.440
we talked with Jaws two about how
there weren't a lot of trilogies there weren't

552
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:37.840
a lot of franchise movies out there, right, at least not the way

553
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.000
that we've been used to, you
know, growing up in the eighties.

554
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:45.039
Of course everything had a part two, part three, whatever, and I

555
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:50.400
think this is part of what added
to that. I think it's interesting.

556
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.719
You know, we know about Rocky
now, so it's kind of hard to

557
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:58.159
you know, take your sales out
of that mind space. But thinking back

558
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:02.480
to what could have been, it's
entirely possible this movie doesn't do well and

559
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:07.559
we end at Rocky two and that's
it. I think it could have been

560
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:14.079
a good enough ending. I can't
imagine it not continuing after this, because

561
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:17.639
I know that he had sides on
really just making this a trilogy, right

562
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.559
yep. He immediately started the script
for Rocky three after Rocky two, and

563
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.079
it's very interesting to see some you
know, some threads kind of repeat there.

564
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.440
But there were no plans originally to
make any fourth film, so it

565
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.320
was it wasn't going to be the
franchise that we have today, which is

566
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.320
hard to imagine. Thank god we
got part four. Well yeah, oh

567
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:40.800
yeah, hold on, I got
you know, Scott makes a great brings

568
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:46.719
up something really cool here and again
why this might be one of the better

569
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:51.840
well, why it is the better
sequel out of all of them. Stallone

570
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:57.480
himself even said after Rocky two he
had run out of ideas. I feel

571
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.239
like this is the last film in
the franchise to focus more on Rocky's life

572
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:04.280
outside the ring, with the everyday
obstacles of living, you know, finances,

573
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.960
marriage, children, relationships. You
don't really get that in Rocky three,

574
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:13.320
Rocky four, because it's all about
the training, you know, montage,

575
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.880
it's all about the big fight sequence. And I'll go and say it.

576
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.000
You know, this is the last
time we're gonna see Rocky. And

577
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:24.760
what I'm what I'm gonna say is
realistic shape. Okay, So if you

578
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:30.960
look at him in Rocky he's about
one hundred and seventy five pounds and great

579
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:36.719
shape. I'm not about to you
know, disparage his his his physical form.

580
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.159
But as far as the Rocky Bible
character goes, he's a little more

581
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:44.159
doughy. Right in Rocky two he
packs on under twenty five pounds. Now

582
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.559
he's fighting at two hundred pounds,
and he looks just phenomenal in my opinion,

583
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.639
because it's you know, it's Rocky
three where he's going to drop down

584
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:54.519
to like one sixty five, he's
maybe three percent body fat, and he

585
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.199
he just looks unrealistic. He looks
he literally looks like an action figure,

586
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.079
you know, and it's just not
realistic. You know, think, when's

587
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:07.599
the last time you saw a pro
fighter look like Rocky Balboa does in Rocky

588
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.440
three or Rocky four. You don't. It just doesn't happen. No,

589
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:14.960
this is yeah, you know that
still Loan's vanity as he gets into those

590
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.440
that time of his life when he's
doing Rocky three and Rocky four. Yeah,

591
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.079
well he was doing Rambo, he
was doing Rambo two during those times,

592
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.000
so he was in some kind of
unusual shape to be in all of

593
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.239
those films. Yeah, right,
well, and very much being the action

594
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.639
star. And I think without this
movie, it doesn't, Like I said

595
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:37.199
in the intro, boxing is about
more than just what happens in the ring,

596
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.119
right, It's their lives, how
it's intertwined here. I don't think,

597
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:45.480
you know, I thought that the
following sequels, you know, Rocky

598
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:54.239
three, Rocky four, fantastic.
I think Rocky Balboa was a very good

599
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:59.440
movie, an interesting movie, and
obviously I've said my love for the Creed

600
00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:02.119
films. I don't think you get
any of those without this setting the tone

601
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:06.280
for that. You don't to be
able to talk about, you know,

602
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.119
Rocky behind the scenes, the dynamics
of you know, what's happening outside of

603
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:13.880
the ring. And I think that's
very, very important, and it wouldn't

604
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:19.360
be as inspirational an action sports movie
without those threads. If it was all

605
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.800
action and missing all those things,
it doesn't quite have the same meaning to

606
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.280
people. I don't think, well, I mean, let's let's go ahead

607
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.079
and skip over to the impact then, because I mean, you've hit it

608
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:35.360
right there. What this film was
able to do just set up so much

609
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:38.519
for the future, not only for
this franchise, but for what Sylvester Stallone's

610
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:42.679
going to give us, you know, in his career. But you talk

611
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:49.079
about your love of Creed Scott,
those movies are incredible and we would not

612
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.079
have those if it wasn't for the
success of the Rocky franchise and what Sylvester

613
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:59.199
Stallone did with these. And I'm
sure Jeff would agree with that. Dave,

614
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:01.039
I absolutely would agree with that.
You know, when you think about

615
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:06.440
the the the impact, the pop
culture impact that this film has. Rocky

616
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.360
bout Boa is one of the all
time most memorable characters in the history of

617
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:15.239
cinema. He personifies inspiration and overcoming
adversity. He's He's the ultimate underdog as

618
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:21.480
far as I'm concerned. And without
without a movie like Rocky two to pave

619
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:24.400
the way for for the you know, Rocky three, Rocky four, Rocky

620
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.800
bout Boa, the Creed franchise.
You know, we don't get the video

621
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:34.440
games, the toys. Uh.
You know, nobody visits Philly without running

622
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:38.039
the steps to the Philadelphia Museum of
Arts, right, how could you so?

623
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:43.800
You couldn't. There's so much.
It is such an impact from this

624
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:45.360
film, you know, And that's
why we do this series, because we

625
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:49.039
want to show what these kind of
films did at the end of the seventies,

626
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.280
what it did for cinema. And
you know, this is one of

627
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.800
those films that has done so much
for us. You just don't realize it

628
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:58.480
until you start talking about it and
you start breaking it down. Well,

629
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.960
let's even talk about Carl Weathers for
crying out loud. Look what it did

630
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.440
for him. It blew him up. I mean, come on, he's

631
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.239
been in so many films for us
and his character. You know, his

632
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:13.159
son is the one who takes up
uh you know, the boxing for what

633
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.199
his dad did, you know?
And Creed but you know we all love

634
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:20.000
Carl Weathers and Predator for crying out
loud. Come on, you have to

635
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:24.239
you have to Dylan your son of
a bit. Yeah, you have to.

636
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:28.480
Man, Hey, I'm a bit. I'm a big Weather's fan regardless,

637
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.400
you know, whether it doesn't have
to just be Apollo, Creed or

638
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:35.719
or Dylan in the Predator film and
you know Action Jackson. Come on,

639
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:39.320
oh absolutely, last year on a
film at forty five, you guys covered

640
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:44.840
another Carl Weather's film. We had
the we had the opportunity to meet him

641
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:46.880
and talk and talk with him.
Yeah, at that time before his passing.

642
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:51.199
So yeah, yeah, I'm glad
you got a chance to talk to

643
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:53.800
him. Jeff, I think that
name too. I mean, losing him

644
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:59.000
recently, it's man, that was
tough interacting with him on that day.

645
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:01.159
And Scott, you should have seen. I mean, I'm telling you he

646
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:05.480
was in phenomenal shape. I promise
you he could have been in a Rocky

647
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.119
film. He could have been he
could have been a Rocky film. That

648
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:12.239
weekend you know in prep for one, he the band was in just incredible

649
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:15.280
shape, look fantastic. Well,
I'm glad you had that experience, Jeff,

650
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.599
I really am, absolutely thank you. Yeah, all right, well

651
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.800
let's let's score this film because we've
got to talk about music by Bill Conti,

652
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:28.800
because the Rocky films are good films, but they're nothing without the music

653
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.920
this man brings, right, Yeah, I mean it's it's iconic as the

654
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:38.880
John Williams Superman march. Oh.
Absolutely right. And anytime somebody is working

655
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.280
out, if they've got this in
their head, I don't care who you

656
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.079
are, you're hearing at least a
few beats at Bill knty. Come.

657
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.559
I'm looking at Jeff right now.
I know you work out, Jeff,

658
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:52.199
and I know this is you listen
to the playlist. I could tell you

659
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:58.079
right now there are several tracks of
Bill Kanti that are always on my playlist.

660
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.400
You're any any playlist that you you
see me, whether I'm running or

661
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:07.960
I'm lifting, there's gonna be a
significant amount of Rocky Balboa soundtrack songs.

662
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:10.840
There has to be, you know, well, I mean think about it

663
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:15.519
like this is it's all about that
motivation factor. I don't care how I'm

664
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.480
tired. You are if you're forty
minutes into training and you're like, all

665
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:22.679
right, I'm done, and then
you know your shuffle puts puts the Rocky

666
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:25.199
theme on, or going the distance, You're like, Okay, I've got

667
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:29.079
three more minutes in me. You're
not tired anymore. You're not tired anymore,

668
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.000
You're you know. I mean,
I do want to I do want

669
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:35.679
to point something out though. I
feel that this is one of the most

670
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:40.039
recognizable pieces of music and pop culture. And I'm assuming you guys would agree,

671
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:44.679
Oh yeah, yeah, So how
is it not you know, doing

672
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.719
a little digging, I'm just curious, how is this not even in the

673
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:53.320
top fifty for the AFI's most Memorable
Film scores? Jeff, who made that

674
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:58.639
list? I don't know, because
you know, I did a podcast with

675
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:04.599
Docking Bait seventy seven with top seven
scores. Yea, and Rocky was in

676
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:10.199
my top seven because this movie,
this score is so incredible and when you

677
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:15.360
hear this, you immediately put yourself
into what is going on in this movie,

678
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:21.079
and you you know what's happening.
And I don't understand why it does

679
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.800
not get the respect and the love
that it deserves, because yeah, it's

680
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:29.519
phenomenal music. Everyone. You can
hum a couple of bars of this of

681
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:32.400
this song, and everyone immediately recognizes
it. I don't care who you are,

682
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:37.199
how old you are, what country
you're in, we all know it.

683
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:42.719
And and Scott, how many how
many film scores ever enter the Billboard

684
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:49.079
two hundred or the Billboard one hundred? I can't think of it. Yeah,

685
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.840
but yet this one, this one
does it for five consecutive weeks.

686
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:59.440
Yep. So it's just amazing.
It is amazing music, lovely stuff,

687
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:06.559
niceable in six notes. Right,
you know exactly what somebody's looking for.

688
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:15.199
Right. It's absolutely iconic. And
I think you see that again echoes through

689
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.199
all the sequels, and this has
a pretty long arm of a franchise in

690
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:25.360
terms of movies that are, you
know, succeeding these movies from seventy six,

691
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:31.559
from the whole thing started. Those
those beats continue through that and has

692
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:37.599
I would say, more powerful moments. The more you see it evolve and

693
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:45.599
come back as thematic elements for this, I can vividly remember after seeing I

694
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:50.800
want to say it was Rocky four. I can vividly remember bouncing around in

695
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:57.280
my backyard to this music and punching
air and just going to town because of

696
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:01.519
what how inspirational this music is.
And it really breaks my heart, Jeff,

697
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.159
that you said that that it's not
in the top fifty. I don't

698
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:09.360
understand how that is even possible.
Blows my mind. Man. All right,

699
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:14.239
well, let's move on to quote
this anything interesting, Jeff. You

700
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.639
know, I had a hunch that
you guys were gonna focus on the bigger

701
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:24.840
characters. So I watched the most
fascinating interview with Burgess Meredith. I couldn't

702
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:30.320
tell you what the show was.
I saw this clip on YouTube, so

703
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:35.519
it's from nineteen seventy nine. But
he's doing press for Rocky two and the

704
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:42.679
woman asks him if he eagerly accepted
the role for the sequel. Burgess says

705
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.280
no, Well, you know,
I did not want to do it,

706
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:50.480
but I got a lot of things
going on and thought the joke's over.

707
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.239
But on the other hand, I'm
a friend of Stallan's and once I began

708
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:58.159
it, I became involved and I
like it. But this picture, on

709
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:01.400
the other hand, I'm involved with
the one hundred percent and I never go

710
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.039
out on these junkets because I feel
uncomfortable praising our own work. I never

711
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.079
in one hundred and twenty five pictures
gone out, but this one I have

712
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.000
an emotional investment in and have great
hopes for. And I think it's some

713
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:19.679
kind of masterpiece. Wow, that's
cool. And that speaks the volume of

714
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.519
what his performance was in this movie
because it was yeah right, It blows

715
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:27.480
how much of him goes into Mickey
right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely think

716
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.760
about that. I mean, man
was born in nineteen oh seven, you

717
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.239
know, we lost him in nineteen
ninety seven, one hundred and twenty five

718
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.400
pictures before Rocky Too, he never
did press and this is the one he

719
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:40.800
chooses to do press for. Yeah, I love it. What do you

720
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:43.400
guys got for me? I know
you guys always come up with these,

721
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:45.280
you always dig out these these amazing
quotes. What do you guys got,

722
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.039
Scott? What do you got?
Mine's a little bit of an interesting turn

723
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.840
because it's not from anybody involved with
the movie at all. Well, I

724
00:50:52.840 --> 00:51:00.480
guess maybe tangentially. So. Apparently
there's an interesting article that came out where

725
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:05.920
Roger Ebert had a chance to sit
down with Muhammad Ali to watch Rocky two,

726
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:14.239
and Ali said a few interesting things. He absolutely sees himself in Apollo

727
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.039
Creed. He says, Rocky Part
two starring Apollo Creed is Muhammad Ali.

728
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:22.559
Apollo sounds like me insulting the opponent
in the press to get him psyched out.

729
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:31.559
That's me exactly. There's another scene
where he sees Rocky kind of falling

730
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:36.400
down and kind of praying in the
locker room before the fight. Apparently that

731
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.320
had quite an impact on Muhammad Ali. He said, that's the most scary

732
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:45.079
moment. The most scary moment in
a fighter's life is right now, the

733
00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:47.599
moment before your fight, in your
dressing room. All the training was behind

734
00:51:47.599 --> 00:51:51.519
you, all the advice in the
world don't mean a thing. In a

735
00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:53.480
moment, you'll be in the ring, everyone's on the line, and you

736
00:51:54.199 --> 00:52:00.639
are scared. To hear that kind
of admission from Muhammad Ali is something else.

737
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:05.800
But ultimately his review of his review
of the movie gave it a thumbs

738
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:07.239
up. He said, it's a
great movie, a big hit. Has

739
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:13.519
all the ingredients love, violence,
and emotion. The excitement never doult nice.

740
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.920
So you've got endorsement from Muhammad Aldi. Yeah. Well, and Ebert

741
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.400
didn't Scott Scott didn't. Ebert give
it like three and a half out of

742
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.800
four or was it three out of
four? I know he was a big

743
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:27.079
fan of it. Yeah, so
I went with the obvious Sylvester Stallone.

744
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:30.800
So this was around the thirtieth anniversary
of Rocky. He says, people accept

745
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:35.440
Rocky Balboa as authentic. I can't
tell you how many people have come up

746
00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:38.599
to me and asked how my boxing
career. It's like they really want to

747
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:42.880
believe that Rocky exists. You know, I'm amazed by all of this.

748
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:45.280
At one time, I thought people
would get over the fascination with the character

749
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:50.840
and move on. Didn't happen.
After thirty years, Rocky has taken hold

750
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:54.320
to a degree I never could have
imagined. And here we are forty five

751
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:59.880
years and it continues to have the
success. All right, let's talk about

752
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:04.920
what guys. I didn't find too
much, But Jeff, I think there's

753
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.800
some different There were some titles for
this film that they didn't go with.

754
00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:12.000
Is that correct? Before we just
got the simple title of Rocky two,

755
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.199
we tried out Rocky two Redemption and
you know, as you guys know,

756
00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:21.800
Redemptions. It's one of the tracks
from Bill Conti's a It's a big theme

757
00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:27.639
in the Rocky franchise that was eighty
six and they went with Rocky Returns,

758
00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:31.280
which, no, thank you.
We've seen that in so many superhero films.

759
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:37.119
I'm glad they didn't. Sometimes sometimes
just a simple Roman numeral is the

760
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.039
way to go, and I feel
like Rocky one of the better examples of

761
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:45.039
that. Absolutely, But I got
too I got too interesting. What ifs

762
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:49.239
for you guys. We talked a
little bit about Roberto Duran as his sparring

763
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:53.880
partner. There was another real life
boxer who was in the running for that

764
00:53:53.960 --> 00:54:01.039
role. Stone specifically wanted this guy, and he had a abysmal reading with

765
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:05.679
with with stallone. His audition went
about as badly as he could go,

766
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.159
talking about a guy named Chuck Webner. Really, yeah, Scott, Okay,

767
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.960
so Scott, uh, you know, Dave, you jumped on that

768
00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:15.159
name real quick. Yeah, I'm
assuming you guys know who Chuck Webner is.

769
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:19.320
Yeah, well, tell us a
little bit about him. He is

770
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:27.000
the real life inspiration behind the Rocky
Babo character. He is the the unknown

771
00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.800
you know, late in life unknown
that that went up against Ali and went

772
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:36.639
the distance. You know, we
we have we have the Rocky character because

773
00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:38.920
of Chuck Webner and Stallone as a
as a thank you, as a payback

774
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.119
he wanted he wanted him in the
film, but Chuck could just not.

775
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.280
He can land a punch, but
he could not land, could not land

776
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:50.159
the role apparently. Uh so,
so his audition went as good as Rockies

777
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:58.719
did doing commercials. I'm guessing so
beast after shave take twenty, there's somebody

778
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:00.599
in the wings who was like,
wait, we can use this in the

779
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:04.119
script. Hold on, hold on, probably probably, I'll tell you who

780
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:09.119
wasn't making decisions like that. We
talked about John g Albertson declining to come

781
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:14.239
back because he was busy with Saturday
Night Fever. So he also didn't agree

782
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:19.199
with the story specifics and was disappointed
that we weren't going to get the original

783
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:22.000
concept that Stallone had come up with
for Rocky two and three. Are you

784
00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:27.400
guys aware of this? No,
I have this. Does it have anything

785
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.800
to do with somebody being the mayor? Oh my god. Yeah. So

786
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:35.280
the original concept, and the one
that John g Allinson was a fan of,

787
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:42.480
was that Rocky would go on to
become elected mayor of Philadelphia on the

788
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.559
on the Reform, on the Reform
ticket, only to be kicked out of

789
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:52.679
office after a scandal involving Polly stealing
funds from the treasury, breaks to the

790
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:58.840
press, and then Rocky loses everything
and he ends up broke. And if

791
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:01.360
you're if you're, if you're sitting, are signing a sigh of relief knowing

792
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:05.079
that this is not what we had
to deal with. I want you to

793
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:07.800
think about the worst film in the
Rocky franchise, which I think we can

794
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:13.639
all agree, is Rocky five.
Yep. The concept was recycled for Rocky

795
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:16.639
five, where Rocky goes broke,
loses everything, and ends up back on

796
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:22.920
skid row. And John Gavelson was
the director of Rocky five. Eleven years

797
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.920
later, he comes back to do
Rocky five and says, no, what

798
00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:28.519
what what? What were we going
to do? Yeah, okay, well

799
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:30.119
he can't be the mayor now,
but let's at least take all his money

800
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:36.840
away, no thing, and give
him brain damage. And considering the scene

801
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:42.239
in this movie where Rocky has no
chill whatsoever when he's negotiating the price of

802
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:51.079
the house, of the apartment or
whatever they buy. Yeah, Mayor about

803
00:56:51.079 --> 00:56:57.199
investing condominiums, it's safe economy.
I never use them. You never use

804
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:02.800
them. That house buying moment,
Scott, you know, good moment for

805
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:06.519
Adrian, which she's like, you
know, you're making this guy's job really

806
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.320
easy. Yeah, you know who
cares? You know, we'd like the

807
00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:14.199
house. I will take it.
There is what if that I would love

808
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:16.440
to see. I would love to
see the alternate universe where we get a

809
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:23.440
better poster for the theatrical rediase of
this just no offense to the well,

810
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:28.239
yeah, everybody has a moment,
but no offense to the designer that created

811
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:30.599
it. But it's just the rocky
to at the top and then just a

812
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:36.880
giant black field with yellow letters that
just as the story continues in the middle,

813
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.239
like I don't know that's Jazz and
anybody yet It's like this would have

814
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:44.519
been a great Browsters and moment to
say, like, I mean, maybe

815
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:46.880
paint is a picture that looks like
it's going to get people excited about round

816
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:51.679
two, right, like, oh
okay, so here's where I'm at with

817
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:57.480
it. Sometimes a little goes a
long way. Think about when we saw

818
00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:02.000
a poster for a Jurassic park and
it was just like the logo and it

819
00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:07.559
just said next summer and you were
excited, right, We didn't need Drew

820
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.559
strewsand To to give us an amazing
piece of artwork. We were just we're

821
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:15.920
excited this one. It is,
I mean, just an all black poster

822
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:22.000
with a yellow frame with just the
story continues, and there's there's and I

823
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:27.360
hear what you're saying, but there's
like a there's this minimalist kind of approach

824
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:32.239
that eventually took on with these kind
of things and through it can hook somebody.

825
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:37.360
But this is bo that's in franchise
world, right when everybody's like,

826
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.880
ooh more, what else is going
to come out of it? Right?

827
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:45.320
And then this one it was just
kind of like, you know, another

828
00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:47.719
Rocky movie, and it's kind of
like it's already kind of an underdog.

829
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:54.280
People didn't want to make it.
People saw Fist, people saw Paradise Alley,

830
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:59.639
and we're like, I don't know
if I want to still a movie

831
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:04.079
to just have that kind of land
simple approach. I think I agree that

832
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.719
they could do. Sometimes a little
yeo is a long way. I think

833
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:10.159
a little more could have gone a
little bit further. In this case,

834
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:13.320
Yes, it could have. You
could have you could have given us,

835
00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:15.480
you know, his boxing gloves,
hanging hanging up, or you could have

836
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:21.679
like a silhouette of the ring,
any anything other than a blacked out poster

837
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:23.599
that just said the story continues,
you know. I mean, you could

838
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:28.880
have had a simple poster that just
said get ready for Round two coming next

839
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.960
summer, Sylvester Stallone, tell ya, Shire people would know what the hell

840
00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:35.880
it is. I'll tell you right
now. This the franchise, well,

841
00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:38.760
at least the first two or three
movies, the franchise does a great job

842
00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:44.760
of showing us legitimate like fight posters
like super Fight one, super Fight two.

843
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:50.519
I think they missed the the marketing
department really missed the mark when they

844
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.159
could have just had the fight poster
Super Fight two that you see hanging above

845
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:58.440
the ring in the climactic moment.
Yeah, put that out there. Make

846
00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:00.920
it make it feel like a real
fight. Right. That failed miserably?

847
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:07.199
Oh well, it is what I'll
take it, ask us. I mean,

848
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:08.480
I was only you know what,
three years old of the time.

849
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:14.320
Yeah, but well, what does
it feil? Miserably is this film?

850
01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:20.800
Though it is the second highest grossing
film of nineteen seventy nine, ironically behind

851
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:22.920
another fight movie, which I have
to believe you guys are going to cover

852
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:29.280
obviously Kramer versus Kramer. Yeah,
that is quite the fight. That is

853
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:34.400
one fight movie. Yeah, you
know that's when they meet that boxing poster.

854
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:37.280
Back to the drink. You know
that that joke didn't land. You

855
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:44.039
know, that's back to like a
Rocky's cow joke, the Cowjoke Club,

856
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.159
Jeff, the Kramer family is hurting. Yeah, all right, let's head

857
01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:53.760
on over to the rewind gentlemen,
Likes dislikes, Jeff, any favorite scenes?

858
01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:55.880
What do you love about this besides
all of it? I know,

859
01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:59.639
well, you know, I gotta
I gotta tell you, I feel like

860
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.920
my likes. I probably already addressed
them, you know, I liked them,

861
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:07.480
Like I said, Rocky Rocky Baba
being in a realistic fighting shape,

862
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.400
talked about some of the moments that
some of my favorite scenes are are not

863
01:01:12.519 --> 01:01:15.239
in the ring. There the tender
moments that he has with Mickey or with

864
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:19.159
with Adrian. So yeah, as
far as what does it work for me,

865
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:22.440
honestly, I think the only thing
I could I can come up with

866
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:24.599
is, you know, the marketing, the poster that that Scott brought to

867
01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:29.239
our attention. I don't know.
I love this film. Absolutely wouldn't change

868
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:32.000
a thing, Scott, what about
you? Aside from a lot of what

869
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:37.599
we already mentioned, there's there's two
things that stand out to me. They're

870
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:45.000
likes, they're not dislikes. There's
that moment where Rocky rolls up to Apollo's

871
01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:49.079
room in the hospital and just asked
him that question, did you give me

872
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:52.800
your best? Because they're both played
with a lot of doubt. I thought

873
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:57.320
that was a great moment. Yeah, it just says a lot about their

874
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:00.519
characters right there, and it does
a great job of setting up the not

875
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:01.880
only the rest of this movie,
but I feel like it has some beats

876
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:06.480
of the Carrier through into Rocky three, where Rocky starts to get something of

877
01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:10.199
his own doubts kind of peppered in
by Clever lang Stan was just a funny

878
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:14.320
moment when he's proposing in the park
and he asks the Tiger if he's going

879
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.639
to be there, mister Tiger,
what do you think you're gonna show up?

880
01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:21.119
You want to you want to be
a kiss? Scott? How how

881
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.920
how adorable is it that he asked
Adrian what she's doing for the next forty

882
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:29.239
to fifty years. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good line. And then

883
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:31.960
that's a I mean, when it
comes down to movie proposals, this is

884
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:36.159
one of my favorites. H yeah. Yeah. And the dead of winter

885
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:42.079
in the zoo. Yeah yeah,
when nobody's outside coming out snow it's snowing.

886
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:44.760
It smells clean. I like the
fact that he says it's snowing it

887
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:49.400
it just smells clean. Yeah,
you're in the zoo man with that tiger.

888
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.079
I'm pretty sure he just went out. I had to drop on.

889
01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:53.360
But that's all right, Dave,
what about you? So for me,

890
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:58.960
you know, a lot of the
Nickey scenes I talked about one earlier,

891
01:02:59.079 --> 01:03:02.199
his heart to hearten the chain,
one of the lions, just it cracks

892
01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:05.519
me up. I don't want to
get mad in a biblical place like this,

893
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:07.880
but yet he still kind of blows
up a little bit because he can't

894
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:12.760
help it, because he cares.
You know, Jeff hit earlier when he

895
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:15.360
said, you know, Mickey's like
a father to Rocky, and you know,

896
01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.719
you see that relationship between the two
of them, and it comes out

897
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:23.199
so much in the scenes between these
two guys, and you can't help but

898
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:30.559
just love the chemistry between these two
that you see on screen, and anytime

899
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:34.039
it happens, you're just glued to
it. There's even the other scene where

900
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:37.360
they're watching the footage of Creed in
Rocky fighting. You guys remember that,

901
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:44.400
and then Mickey stood up and like
the film was on Mickey's face as he

902
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:47.320
was talking to Rocky. I love
that scene. You know, that's the

903
01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:52.519
cinematographer in me coming out with like
man, that is such a cool scene,

904
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:57.639
so much meaning right there. You
know they're watching that footage and you

905
01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:00.840
know Rocky's doubting himself, and you
know Mickey's up there trying to get him

906
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:05.119
to believe in the footage is showing
on Mickey. That is just so such

907
01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:10.880
a powerful scene. But yeah,
all their things together I just absolutely love.

908
01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:16.079
And I can watch over and over
seeing the excitement on Mickey's face with

909
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:23.000
the fight tape across it, and
you know his whole he's almost got like

910
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:28.039
a glee about him on how they're
gonna they're gonna beat the champ with this

911
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:32.639
right handed fighting style. That's a
fantastic moment. Dave good good good call.

912
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:36.320
Yeah, thanks all right, gentlemen. Where'd you guys watch this up?

913
01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:44.320
Well, the latest way that I
watched it was on Max before it

914
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:47.639
leapt off to another streaming service,
which is just another example of why you

915
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:51.280
got a you know, physical media
has a pretty big case there, so

916
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:56.000
you're not chasing streaming services. Jeff, what about you? Well, I'll

917
01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.239
tell you this is this is a
franchise you know much Les Star Wars or

918
01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:05.320
The Evil Dead, where I have
bought it multiple times. I thought I

919
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:12.440
was done. Last year they the
Rocky Knockout Collection in four K was released.

920
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:16.559
I couldn't buy this fast enough because
it did only focus on the first

921
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:20.840
four films. My only the only
pain point for me was that Rocky Bo

922
01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:25.079
Bo wasn't in the in the collection, but you do. You did get

923
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:29.760
the Rocky Versus Drago director's cut of
Rocky four, So I was like,

924
01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:32.119
I'm done, I'm good, okay, nice, And that's the one I

925
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:36.239
own, which I'll be donating to
one of you, probably here soon,

926
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:44.840
because on July sixteenth, the Ultimate
Knockout Collection in four K will be released,

927
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:48.280
and this time it's going to have
all six films with director's cuts of

928
01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:53.119
not only Rocky four, the Rocky
Versus Drago cut, but also a director's

929
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:56.760
cut of Rocky ba baa, so
you know, loaded with extras. I

930
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.920
can't wait so you know, I'll
put you two in the ring, and

931
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:02.920
you know the winner can have the
collection I got. Now it's on Scott,

932
01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:08.119
it's on Dave. Dave, where
did you say this? One of

933
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:13.199
first I want to tell Scott I
will break you. Hey, I'm gonna

934
01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:17.119
buy the kids a snow cone machine? Could you say snowcones? Think?

935
01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:19.400
No? You see this is a
series I believe or not. I don't

936
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:24.079
own on Blue Air DVD surprisingly and
I should. I know I should own

937
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.559
this in my Uh it's a physical
copy of these because these are incredible films

938
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:31.440
and they should be in everybody's library. I actually rented it on Amazon Prime

939
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.239
is uh where I watched it?
So but yeah, uh so Scott,

940
01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:39.840
be prepared to fight Scott. You
had, You had a good opportunity there.

941
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:42.679
He he jumped ahead a couple of
films and he's he's quoting Draga.

942
01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:45.079
You should have came right back with
him with a with a club or lane.

943
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:47.599
It's been like just been like,
no, I do not accept Dave's

944
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:50.480
challenge because he is no challenge.
I'd be happy to beat up on that

945
01:06:50.519 --> 01:06:56.320
fool one more time. Do you
have a prediction about that paint about that

946
01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:03.280
fight pain. Oh boy, here
we go at my age. That's likely.

947
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:08.719
Yeah, yes, here and one
damn what were we thinking? See

948
01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:11.679
that's the difference. Man, Like, I know how old we all are,

949
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:15.280
but I'll watch this film and I'll
assume, like, yeah, you

950
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:17.920
know what, I with the proper
training, I could probably you know,

951
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:21.679
every like Bicky says, every pug
thinks he's got one last fun in him.

952
01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:26.960
True, they do. He's true. It's true. Yeah. Well,

953
01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.559
Jeff, thank you so much for
joining us. Man. It's nice

954
01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:31.960
to have you hang out with us
here in nineteen seventy nine and join a

955
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:35.519
little bit with a film at forty
five. We appreciate it. Guys.

956
01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:41.280
Going sixteen rounds with you in nineteen
seventy nine has been has been a lot

957
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:43.920
of fun. So thank you again
for let me be a part of it.

958
01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:46.559
Absolutely our pleasure. Well as always, I want to thank our listeners

959
01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:51.280
and hope you're excited as we continue
our journey through nineteen seventy nine. You

960
01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:56.239
can always reach us at a film
by podcast dot com, a film by

961
01:07:56.360 --> 01:08:00.000
podcast at gmail dot com, You
can reach us at any other social media

962
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.159
until our film. Are you going
to start rolling again? Go out watch

963
01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:05.719
something new, watch something different,
and who knows what you will discover next.

964
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:06.679
Thanks everyone,