A Script By: James Cameron - The Terminator

0:00 Welcome to a Script. By episode five, I am your host, Brad Kozo. Thanks for joining me on this show. We break down some of Hollywood's most notable screenplays and explore why they remain so powerful the page. Last episode, I mentioned that this month's screenplay would be Mean Streets by Martin Scorsese and Martic Martin, but after some consideration, I decided to call an audible and swissings up a bit. Now. While Mean Streets is a fantastic script, I ultimately felt that it might be a little too obscure for the season first season of the show. But don't worry, we'll definitely get us some Scorsese next season. Because today I have a real crowd pleaser, a screenplay so well crafted that it's almost impossible to put down once it starts moving.

0:43 I'm talking about nineteen eighty four As the Terminator, written by James Cameron with Gail and Hurd, a script so iconic that Cameron's words on the page became part of American film culture itself. A screenplay that perfectly blends action, science fiction, horror, and real world anxieties into one relentless cinematic experience. From its dark haunting opening to its terrifying vision in the future. The Terminator is a screenplay that, much like the Machine as its center, simply does not stop. This is a script by Let's turn the page. Welcome back to a script by I am your host, Brad Kozo.

1:41 And this is episode five The Terminator written by James Cameron with Gail and Herd. Now let me explain the difference of James Cameron with Gail and Herd instead of by Cameron and Herd. Written by typically means the credited person or person's contributed substantially to most story and screenplay, with often suggest additional collaboration, development, or contributions that were meaningful but not necessarily equal authorship. While The Terminator's mistakenly driven by Jim Cameron's voice and storytelling instincts, Gail Ann Herd was an important creative collaborator in helping shape the screenplay and bringing the project to life. This is the script that changed science fiction forever by blending time travel, one of my favorite subjects, the threat of artificial intelligence and the fear of nuclear holocaust one of my least favorite.

2:34 You know subjects sometimes overlooked by the bigger and financially more successful Terminator to Judgment Day. The magic all starts here. The script doesn't just move, it hunts you. Every scene pushes forward, every moment escalates, every line has purpose. I mean it like the machine does not stop. And that's what makes The Terminator such a fascinating script to study. But as always, I would like to introduce my guests this evening. She did such a great job with me on get Out, I thought it would be wise to bring her back. That's right. Jeff Johnson likes to call her the voice of Reason. Returning to the show is Amber Lewis. Amber, welcome back.

3:15 Thank you. I love this movie. I can't wait. What are your earliest Terminator type of memories, because I mean, I don't remember the first time I've seen it. I just remember that era of seeing it a lot. Yeah, it was one of those that kind of was always on at some point in like the later eighties. I was not really interested. My brothers definitely. Were, Oh it was a guy film. Yeah, yeah, I was just like, you know whatever. I'd be in and out and it was on in the room. And then they were so excited for Terminator too that I know that I it was probably around that point that I saw out the first Terminator, Like all the way through it seemed like pieces and you know, heard.

4:08 Arnold say I'll be back, you know, and all that. But I think I didn't sit down and actually watch it until nineteen ninety one. Yeah, I think it was like I wore I rented the video, taped it from cable, watched it on cable, you know, wore out the probably the tape that I taped it on. You know, it was just so much but. The boys, but that was not me. But I had never actually read the script, and reading it for the first time, I mean just you know, I was really surprised how well this script is written. I mean his Cameron's description of images and camera movements.

4:50 I mean, it's very easy. This is not for a novice person. I mean, you know, Chinatown last Picture showed. These are all great, but they're not really fun reads. You know. It's like The Terminator is a script with exciting descriptive and highly emotional and I mean I had a hard time putting it down. If I could, I just want to read this one little portion. This is the portion where the Terminator is in Sarah Connor's mother's cabin in like big Bear, and I just want you to read his direction and his description, and it is dead on what you see on the screen. Slow pan around the room as the conversation between Sarah and her mom continues completely voiceover. The pan continues, revealing an overturned chair. The pan comes to a table, smash plates, spilled coffee, a splatter of blood, a phone. It follows the phone cord onto the terminator and close up as it continues in a perfect simulation of her mother's voice, I love you too, sweetheart.

6:02 I mean, that's exactly what you see. I mean, what did you think reading this for the first time. Well, like you said, sometimes scripts are difficult to read, Like you write, yeah, it's a movie you like, and you think, oh, it'll be interesting to read the script and it'll be just like watching the movie. And then you're like, this is not the thing. And I always thought, correct me if I'm wrong. I thought it was like a faux pas. To put camera direction in a screenplay you're planning to direct it yourself, really doesn't matter. But so I was fascinated at how, like you said, how technical it is. But even with those technical aspects, it doesn't make it difficult for you to envision what he is describing. And I also was very interested in how specific he is, Like he could have just said machine gun, but he you know, AR one eighty, you know, like I gotta know what that is.

7:07 And the thing is, he's dead on in the movie. That's exactly what he has. Each time it's it's it's hilarious. But now you know, of course, we know James Cameron is so about the technical and so about the little details. But for his kind of first movie, you know, uh, to have that specificity is really interesting right out of the gate. Yeah, and just I can imagine the person, the studio person at Hemdale that reads this for the first time and it's just like Stellar, Let's let's go right ahead. I wonder if they were like that, or if they were like, who the heck is this guy?

7:48 This is? You know a star? Yeah, well, then let's get into a background of James Cameron, because to understand the Terminator, you gotta understand where James Cameron was at the time in the eighties. Camera wasn't the filmmaker we all know today. He did a variety of jobs in the film industry, model making effects work, all that stuff. Now that technical background would become as like you were saying, one of the defining you know, the strengths of the Terminator. But at the time he had only directed one picture, Pirana to the Spawning, covered previously by a film Buy, a troubled production that suffered from budget issues and creative conflict.

8:28 But while he was staying in Rome on the picture, he had a fever dream above a metallic, metallic skeleton emerging from fire carrying blades. That image became the spark that eventually evolved into the Terminator. The script was so arrived at the perfect moment. You know, America was deep in the Cold War anxieties, living with fears of nuclear war advancing technology. Terminator just tapped right into those fears, I mean, but at the same time turning it into one of the most iconic science fiction stories. I mean, it's it's a nightmare, but it's one of the you know, Hollywood's defining screenplays.

9:13 Well, and I think it succeeded so well because it wasn't it I don't know, for me, it wasn't selling the fear of a nuclear holocaust like say war games. You know, did. It was this almost like a slasher film, with this relentless you know, machine coming after this woman and the hope that if we can get her to the end of the movie, everything's gonna be okay. And the thing is, though it is and it isn't. Right, you still have the war, Like, we're not stopping the war, We're just saving the woman who's going to give birth to the hero.

9:57 Of the war. Yeah, game, well, very much like your brothers. I was very intrigued when I found out A Terminator two was happening because I was so obsessed with the first film, you know, and it had been but eight seven eight years, you know since that movie came out, So that fever dream finally coming true and seeing what was could almost be at first looking at it somewhat of a cult movie. It got a little bit of a cult movie. Look then the next time around, turning into this spectacle, you know, just monstrosity, you know, spectacle. But that was I was one of those guys, you know, and I it felt good knowing the movie so well that when the little things were thrown at me, I was like, I know what he's talking about. I know what he's talking about.

10:52 Well, and see I have missed that all these years. Like I remember seeing T two in the theater and just enjoying the ride like it was fabulous, But it was I just rew had to do a double feature because that's what you do. And there were a lot of things that went over my head, like I didn't know that the psychiatrist was the same guy. I was like, oh my god, is that guy. The first thing that Arnold says to her in T two. I'd forgotten that that was the first thing that Reese says to her in the first movie. So like, there were all.

11:33 Kinds of little things that I was very excited about this time because I had just done them back to back like that. The only thing is I wish they wouldn't have shown in the trailer that he was, you know, protecting him this time. I would have been a nice to go in not knowing. But they is a good point, But I mean they were they were so excited about the T one thousand. I can't blame him for being. Like, Okay, forget it, this is the really cool thing that we have to show you. Yeah, well we're gonna take our first break and when we come back, we're gonna dive in the first ten pages and Act one of The Terminator. Welcome back to a script by We are covering the script for The Terminator.

12:16 So let's get into those first ten pages. Now. What's amazing about the first ten pages of The Terminators that James Cameron and Gayle an Herd established nearly every essential element of great screenlighting almost immediately. The tone from the opening images of darkness, machines, human skulls, The screenplay media feels cold, apocalyptic and dangerous. Mystery. Who are these men, why have they arrived? Who is Sarah Connor? And who exactly is this real threat? This real threat? The script constantly pulls us forward, though unanswering, you know, not answering the questions. Character. Cameron defines character through action. The Terminator's calmon mechanical Reese is desperate and traumatize, Sarah's ordinary and vulnerable.

13:02 We understand them before it's even explained to us. Conflict starts early Terminator versus the punks, rece versus the police, you know, all of them, racing towards Sarah Connor. Theme core fears technology overpowering humanity, future invading the present. You know, normal people getting caught in these catastrophic events. The pacing, what incredible speed, future war arrivals, pursuit, Sarah's introduction, and the first meds all happened within the first ten pages. And as we talked about, before, he tells this story visually. He talks about the red scanning, the point of view, the phone book, the police sire, I mean, everything is in there. The suspense, I mean the audience learns before Sarah does you know, we know something's hunting her? She doesn't.

13:56 That tension locks the audience in almost immediately. That's why these opening pages are so effective. The screenplay doesn't just introduce the story, it creates momentum. My question is these first ten pages it throws a lot at the audience. Why do you think it feels exciting instead of confusing? My biggest thing is the lack of dialogue. Yeah, I feel like if it had been very exposition heavy already trying to kind of explain things, we would have gotten lost and you wouldn't have been able to retain all of that for the rest of the story. The fact that you know you're really just visually following these characters. You know there is some dialogue, but it's Yeah, it's not exposition at all.

14:47 So it allows you. To start asking questions and making inferences and you are actively engaged with what you're watching. And then just when you start to kind of hit fatigue, he cuts to Sarah, who is the familiar. She's going to work. It's daytime, La looks pretty, you know, it's regular life. And I just think that that pacing, like he knows exactly when everybody's gonna say, all right, I've had enough, Like what is going on? Yeah, and he chooses to switch, and I find that very interesting.

15:27 Yeah, and you he keeps throwing you know when she clocks in, you know, and like he says in the script, Sarah Connor. And we've seen you know them, both Reese and the Terminator going through Sarah Connor, Sarah Connor. So we just what we know is the all these three have something in common, you know. And like remember we're trying to envision, envision this screenplay with with virgin eyes. You know, It's it's hard when it's that dude, but you just kind of have to put your mind in that weird place. So let's get into act one. Act one of the Terminators built around a terrifying idea. Sarah Connor has done absolutely nothing wrong. She isn't a hero yet, she isn't a warrior. She's just a young waitress trying to get through the day. But somewhere in the future has already decided that she matters, and that decision is what drives the entire first act. The story's first inciting incident actually happens before Sarah even appears. Recent Terminator arrive in nineteen eighty four. With that moment, normal reality is broken.

16:33 Future is now in the present, war does not happen yet is already moving forward to moving towards Sarah Conna, and the brilliance of Cameron structure is that Sarah doesn't know any of this. She lives her normal life. The screenplay is quietly tightening around her, you know. Germinator begins searching, Reees, follows police, investor, gate, other Sarah Connor's stop dying, The phone book becomes this like weapon, and then the city kind of gets uglier, you know, a little bit, you know, And then we reach Sarah's personal inciting incident. She learns that women named Sarah Connor are being murdered and she's the next one. On the list. Now the danger is personal.

17:18 Now it was mystery. Now it's fear. She doesn't know what's going on, but something's wrong. That tension defies Act one. The audience knows more than Sarah. We understand the threat is coming, she doesn't. I mean, when the Terminator finally reaches her and rec intervenes the mystery, all of it is, it just explodes open in well literally in gunfire, because we learned the truth and that's the inciting incident. Three the future exists, machines will destroy humanity, and she has become the center of that war. Act one ends the moment the questions stop and the survival begins. Act one of the Terminator is very interesting because Sarah isn't She's not driving the story, yet the story is driving toward her.

18:07 Do you think that makes the opening more suspenseful? And at what point did you feel Sarah truly became the center of the movie. I think the scene in the nightclub is really brilliantly done, because, like you said, we've been following just this normal woman who is starting to become incredibly concerned because women with her name are dying in the city and everyone. Is converging on her. Yeah, and I think that that is so interesting that you've got Reese following her, you've got the Terminator coming from another direction, you've got the cops coming from another directly.

18:49 She's like in the center of this bullseye. And I just find that so fascinating, the way everybody converges on this one spot. But the thing I love the most is that she is just so completely normal. Yeah, Like she. Doesn't, you know, take karate, So there is nothing about her that is remarkable other than just being who she is. Yeah, just a nineteen year old girl that's you know, going to school, working as a waitress to pay the bills, going out with girlfriends, going out on dates, I mean, just having the best time, and then just rug pulled out from under your legs. Yes, well, we're gonna take our final break and when we come back, we're gonna jump into Act two of the Terminator. Welcome back. We are talking about Act two of the Terminator. The Act two of the Terminator is where the script stops asking questions, it starts moving. Mystery of Act one is now gone.

19:52 Sarah know she's being hunted. Reese reveals the truth machines are real and humanity has already just lost one. From this point forward, the screen baby becomes a chase. But what makes Act Too work is that Cameron doesn't rely on the action. He builds it through inevitability. The Terminator isn't angry, not emotional, not personal, It just continues. Every escape really does feel temporary, you know, every safe moment feels very very fragile. You're not really safe, you know, you know, he gives it the full story sky Net Judgment Day, John Connor, Future War. All of her options are just getting smaller. And then we reach that midpoint at the police station, and for a brief moment, for a small moment, you think the characters are safe. She's surrounded by officers. Remember we have we have thirty cops in this building. But no, no, you know, the Terminator does not stop. And when he walks into that station, the film crosses the line. This no more survival, no more of hiding who we are. This is war.

21:03 You know. From that moment forward, she's no longer running from there, She's running from fate herself. Act two of The Terminator doesn't build suspense through mystery. It builds it through inevitability. The police station scene feels like the moment the Terminator genre changes, you know, it's is that where the movie stops being a thriller and becomes a nightmare. And was that also the moment you realize nobody's safe from this thing? You know, I mean it might not even be killable, absolutely, because the thing is up until now, he's kind of moving within society's he's doing violent things, but he's not really trying to draw attention to himself. He's just kind of methodically going down this hit list.

21:53 He's keeping it low key. Yeah. And when he first arrives at the police station, you know, he asks the the officer at the desk, it a very politely, may I please speak with Sarah Connor. I'm her friend? And from the moment he is taking measure visually taking measurement of the wall in front of him. From that moment on, like he, I guess has just decided I'm going to kill everyone until I can get to her. And I find that really an interesting choice because he's killing people he doesn't have to, like, there are no threat to him.

22:39 But he's a they're humans, you know, he's a killing machine. Yeah, And so it's interesting that he just kind of that's the moment he flips the switch and is like, I'm just gonna take out everybody because it's easier that way. Yeah. I mean, like I said, if you're trying to see it through virgin eyes, you know, you don't see that coming. You see him trying to get in there some way, but just fooling me, Like, you know, I'm just going to tear the place apart. I'm sick. I'm sick of going back and for chasing her. Then I've already taken out my eye, my wrist, my arm got all screwed up. Enough is enough, you know, he just oh man, he just it's a slaughter.

23:22 It is. And I thought it was interesting in the script because obviously hasn't been cast yet. Yeah, he had. Cameron had the terminator like jumping over a desk and running and doing all these very like kind of live athletic things, and that's not Arnold's style. So you know the difference between what was on the page and then what that became with the casting of Arnold Schwarzenegger I thought was an interesting difference. Yeah, it was a big slap in the face to him. Because he came in to read for Reese and yeah, they read it and he's like, be sure I'm not better for the for the terminator. And then they thought about, like, man with this guy's size, and imagine what we could do him. Yes, imagine that we could be And I think they thought, like, we just beat him up, he will be able to.

24:19 Take it well. And he absolutely fits. One of my favorite lines at this point is when Reese is trying to explain to Sarah what this thing is and he says it can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop ever. And then you see that happen in the police station. Yeah, and you're like, yeah, he's this is this is full on just a killing machine. Written is very close to the way it was directed. You know, he like I said, he's he pulls this one up, this type of ar rifle with this and he's got this I mean even like him getting shot in the just you know, a little part right here and stuff. So just something that doesn't even matter to the rest of the movie.

25:10 He had in there well, and talking about when he pulls the the electrical wire. Yes, the while he's like it said it was like a four forty or something. I'm like, yeah, who cares, it's an electric thing exactly. He set fire to the building. Is the point, Well, let's get into act three. Act three of the Terminator is where the screenplay becomes pure survival. By this point, almost everything has been taken away. Police are gone, the city can no longer protect Sarah. Reese is wounded, the future that once felt distant is now staring directly in front of her. What makes his final act work so well is how Cameron keeps escalating the danger, why stripping away the Terminator's humanity. The truck explodes, flesh burns away, the machine underneath is finally exposed, and somehow it becomes even more frightening because now there's nothing left to disguise it just metal, movement and purpose. That screenplay turns the Terminator into something mythic. It isn't evil, it isn't angry. It just continues, And then we reach Sarah's resurrection moment. Reese dies. Sarah's alone, and for the first time in the film, nobody is coming to save her.

26:25 Hope is nearly gone. The Protector is dead, she and is still moving and it feels like the story has reached its end. But this is where Sarah changes. She stops running, she stops surviving, and then she starts fighting. Then the ordinary waitress from Act one disappears, and her place is at the beginning of the Sarah Connor we remember fittingly. The final confrontation happens inside a factory, a place built by machines, where humanity finally pushes back. Sarah crushes the Terminator not with superior strength, not with your weapons, but through endurance, transformation and the will to survive. Act through the Terminator doesn't end with victory, it ends with resurrection.

27:10 So Act three strips everything away, both from the Terminator and in the screenplay, Reese dies, the Terminator keeps moving, and Sarah stands alone. Was this the moment the film stopped being about survival and became an origin story? Yeah? I didn't actually think of it that way until you pose the question. But one hundred percent what I love is that in a kind of story like this, there's. Basically two kinds of people. There's people that freeze in fear and are killed and they don't survive, and then there's people that kind of develop their own terminator, likability to keep going and say, you know, I may die, but I'm gonna die like right, you know, no matter what, I'm going to keep trying.

28:05 And the visual of her, you know, she's wounded, her her leg had trapnel in it so she can't run, and her clawing her way. Through these machines. And I love the visual of the terminator. He's just like a rib cage in an arm, yeah, you know. And just the relentlessness of him still coming after her, and you know, her willingness to just she has no skills, she has nothing. The only reason she knows to crush it is because she bumped into it earlier as they were running around trying to escape the terminator. That's the only reason she wasn't like, oh well, but she was like, oh yeah, I hit the up. We'll crush him.

28:55 Yes. And it's that, you know, strength of character that I don't think she even knew was there. Yeah, you know, that enables her to make it that far. I mean, once she starts kind of I think it's once Reese gets shot, once he gets shot, she is the first time she kind of strikes the terminator with the truck. You know, she actually is the one that cuts over and you know it's a pretty good thing, you know, truck tips and stuff. Then she's carrying him, and once she starts doing the on your feet soldier, yes, you're like, who is this woman? And that's the one obviously we end up seeing and you just you just get these little teases, like you know, at the time, obviously we were like, who knows what's going to become over, you know, but but seeing that, you're like, Okay, she has the potential to do it.

29:52 Yes, absolutely, And you know, there were a couple of scenes in the script that didn't make it into the movie, and I understand why he cut them, and I think they know they were good cuts, I have to admit, but you started to see hints of she's smarter than you think she is and she's tougher than you think she is. But I do think that the payoff is worth missing those moments. Yes, because you're very much in there and being like, oh he had a bigger plan. Yes, yeah. All right. Now that we have covered all three acts of The Terminator, it is time to go beyond the page and our first section foreshadowing and setup. One of the most impressive things about The Terminator is how carefully James Cameron builds the future before fully explaining it. Almost nothing in the script is random early on that details feel small, He's gonna miss on a first watch. The Future War imagtry, the crushed skulls, the machines, all of it, even the way the Terminator studies people moves. Some environments so at first they just kind of feel like atmosphere, but they're not.

31:03 They're set up because Cameron is quietly planting information. The audience doesn't fully understand yet, but eventually they will. The Future War isn't just opening spectacle, it's the world Sarah will help create. The phone book isn't just a prop. It becomes a weapon. The other Sarah Connors aren't random victims. They're showing us how systematic the Terminator really is. Even Sarah herself is set up. She begins so ordinary that the transformation later feels earned. And that's what makes the screenplay so effective. The revelations don't feel like twist. They feel inevitable because Cameron has been preparing us the entire time.

31:46 That's the difference between surprise and payoff. The Terminator doesn't simply reveal the future. It builds it piece by piece. Looking back at the script, what detail felt small all the first time but turned out to be much bigger once everything came together. The one thing that really stood out for me was the scene in the police station when Reese is talking to the psychiatrist and he says, we'd won the machine sent the terminator through as a last ditch effort. Yeah, And I had never picked up on that before, and so when I read it, I was like, is that in the movie? Yeah, And so I was looking for that, waiting for it when I did a rewatch, and it was there.

32:46 So the idea that they had actually. Defeated the machines in the future, and this was an attempt to circumvent that. It wasn't just take out rebels that were being annoying. Yeah, it was their hell Mary. Yes, I thought that was a really great detail. Yeah, you're right, that was a perfect detail, because, yeah, it goes by kind of quick. You know, he's just like we'd want, you know, and just you're still just kind of studying and finding out who Reese is really and just taking it all in. Yes, So that brings us to dialogue character and subtext. Most surprising thing about The Terminator is how little dialogue is actually needs. This isn't a script that around long speeches are complicated conversation.

33:37 He keeps the dialogue mean, direct, purposeful, and because of that, the character is often revealed through behavior rather than words. The Terminator barely speaks, but we understand everything. It's about its movement. It's focus, complete lack of emotion. That silence becomes part of the character. Now Reese is the opposite, carries the way to the future. It's dialogues feel with urgency and trauma and exhaustion. He doesn't speak like a hero. He speaks like someone who's already survived the end of the world. And then there so early on, her dialogue feels casual, normal every day. You know, he wants her to feel ordinary. That's what Cameron's trying to do. The transformation only works if you believe who she was before.

34:25 Underneath all of that is the subtext, because the Terminator is not just about a killer machine. It's about fear. Fear of technology, fear of losing control, fear that humanity might create something it cannot stop. Even the famous line like you mentioned before, it can't be bargained with, It can't be reasoning with. It's doing more than just describing the Terminator. It's describing the inevitability, the future, the idea that just some things keep coming, whether or not we're ready or not. That's why the dialogue works. It's not flashy dialogue. It isn't trying to impress us. It gives us exactly what we need. It lets the characters, the actions, and the tension do the rest. The Terminator doesn't explain its people, it just reveals them underneath the action and science fiction. Do you think The Terminator is really a move about technology or is it more about fate inevitability?

35:25 Well, I don't. I know you like time travel. I'm not personally a fan. I get very frustrated it's time travel. So I think this one T two is very like fate and you know, can you change your future and all that. I think this movie is one hundred percent about technology. You know, coming as it did in the eighties, we were having like this huge tech explosion where everybody could have an atari, everybody was starting to have computers, you know, everything was becoming much more accessible and much more automated. And I think Cameron really didn't tend for us to kind of look at what kind of future are we creating for ourselves? And it, you know, kind of came on the heels of we were already getting similar stories. You know, I mentioned wargames you know, roll your eyes if you want. But Superman three had you know, a computer that became self.

36:32 Aware and took over That's right. Yeah, you know. So these are already you know, things that we're starting to get concerned about. Yeah. I mean, and I think too it. It's kind of telling you it goes very fast, and I think we're living it. The technology is just improving quicker than we can keep up with. Which is interesting because we are creating it. Yeah, and that's the kind of stuff and you're when you know, you're you're reading it, you're watching meing like this seems pretty much like today. You know, this seems pretty much like where we're going. I hope you know what you know? He does say, Uh, I know a lot of people. I know, there's not I'm not just the only one that watched Terminator two and saw the scene of there is no fate but what we make for ourselves And notice that it wasn't in the first film. Well, it is in the script. It is in there, so I don't know if anybody else noticed, but that line was after rewatching the Terminator again and again and even this time catch him. Like you know, it is in the script. It's just one of the scenes that is omitted, which brings us to the page versus the screen. One of the fascinating things about reading The Terminator is how closely the finished film matches is what Cameron wrote on the page. It's not a case where the movie discovered itself,

38:06 you know, during production, like Jaws or something. I mean, the movie was already there. The atmosphere of the pacing, the future, war imagery, the machine perspective, I mean, even many visual beats appear almost exactly as Cameron described in in that percision is the big reason Cameron had to direct the film himself. I mean, the screenplay doesn't just tell the story, it visionallys And like you said, Cameron wrote The Terminator not with Schwarzenegger in mind, so there's a few notable differences between page and screen. Sarah and Reees share more quiet moments of the screenplay, giving their relationship additional you know, emotional weight. There's more discussion involving Cyberdyne Systems, even ideas about blowing it up that we eventually will get to. And one of the biggest details come at the ending. And I looked for this too recently as I rewatched it, and I don't see it but.

39:07 Right before we got on here and I was like focused very closely, But it's. Not there in the screenplay and you can you don't have to believe this or is everything, But in the screenplay, the factory at the end of the film is a beginning version of Cyberdyde Systems. It's not there, you know, but I looked for it. But I guess it's supposed to be the you know, cyberdive facility. I mean, it creates a fascinating layer of irony. Yeah, But the thing is, that's the thing. It just wasn't a screenplay that was written. I mean, this this movie had vision and the finished film, you know, it's pretty much close to what already existed on his pages, the Finnish films. You know, it stays close.

39:56 And like you said, reading it, you know, detail was that you never realized before Cyberdyne and all that after reading it. Do you think Terminator is one of those rare cases where the writer and director had to be the same person. Yes. I think it's clear that he had the complete vision in his head of what the story was going to be, and the challenge was like getting it out and getting it onto the page. I mean the version that we read was the fifth draft. I mean that's not a lot.

40:37 Of drafts, no, but I mean it's I mean you could tell, like you said, the omitted ones were yeah, better that they were admitted. Like the tickling scene. There's a tickling scene, which dumb Sarah, but I. Really wanted the scene. But then again, it changes who Sarah is. But there was a scene where she like pulled a page out of the phone book and took it to Reese and said, this is where we're going. And it was her idea to go to Cyberdine and blow it up. Yeah, and just circumvent the war entirely, and which causes a whole other set of like time travel problems that I can't even the paradoxes just pile.

41:28 Up after that. Yeah, but I liked that she had that idea, that somebody had that idea. Yeah, you know, and. Then I also liked kind of right after that, there was another scene where I don't know, she's trying to get away from him again, or she's mad and walks off or something, and they end up walking into the woods and all of a sudden, Reese is like overwhelmed and drops to his knees and he's like, I've never seen this. It's so beautiful. It's all gone where I am. Yeah, and I loved that moment. I would have loved to have kept that, but I think, you know, Cameron has the ability to really tighten things up and just stick with the essential storytelling, which I think is really important.

42:18 I mean, it keeps it more that darker tone, you know. Yeah, it'd be cool to mention like she mentions in there, like you know, I can't wait to show you these things that you've ever seen before, you know. I'm like, yeah, but it doesn't really, I mean. Well, it doesn't fit with where they were because like we're still in deep trouble. Like yeah later, Yeah, it takes away the fears, So I'm definitely glad it was omitted. Now we come to the moment that I believe defines the script. It's the moment where Kyle Reeves finally tells Sarah the truth about the future, about John Connor, about her place, and everything, because this is a scene where the movie changes up until now. Sarah thinks she's running from danger, she thinks survival is a goal, but Reese reveals something much bigger.

43:07 This was never just about her life. It was about humanity's future. The war, Judgment Day, the resistance, John Connor, all of it traces back to one ordinary woman who has no idea how important she is, and that's what makes the scene so powerful. Sarah isn't chosen because she's strong. She isn't a warrior, she isn't special, Yet she becomes important, portant because of the circumstances force her becomes someone greater. This moment also redefines Reese. He isn't simply a protector. He's carrying history, memory, hope. The future already sees Sarah as legendary, but she hasn't met that version of herself yet.

43:49 And that's the emotional heart of the script. The audience knows Sarah Connor is an icon. The scene reminds us she started as a person, scared, confused, ordinary. The weight of the world is suddenly placed on her shoulders, and she never asked for it. That's why this scene defines the Terminator, because beneath the action, beneath the science fiction, beneath all the machine from the future, the Terminator is really about transformation, the birth of a hero. The machine may drive the plot, but Sarah Cotter drives the meaning. Reese gives Sarah the weight of the future in just this scene. You know, was this moment you stop seeing her as the target of the story and started seeing her as its hero. No, yeah, not yet.

44:37 Not yet, because it's so if she doesn't believe it, then you're not gonna believe it. And you know, her response is like, I can't even balance my checkbook. Are you kidding me? Like this is not You've got the wrong person. Yeah, and really think about yourself at nineteen. Think about what you had in your life and you're given this. This is what you're going to This is your destiny. This destiny sucks well. And the truckload of things that she's being asked to accept on very little background. You know, she's being asked to accept that time travel exists, that you know, there is this relentless machine that is targeting her that she's going to somehow have a child that is the savior of humanity. Yeah, I mean all of the you know that all of humanity is going to be destroyed. I mean that's a lot to process in.

45:43 Yeah, you know, forty eight hours. Yeah, and when he explains, you know, the machines becoming self aware at least hits the that does make sense kind of button, you know if like, if it was a machine, you know it, that's where too. It's like, you gotta deal with all of it. And I'm I'm glad he kept her at such a not the hero hero until we, like I said, we saw that out there the towards the end, you know, with the on your feet soldier. So I like that we still saw her. We didn't know what was coming next. We had no idea.

46:23 I mean, our brains, Terminator fans brains went wow, what's Sarah Connor going to be like? But she became a screen icon, which brings which brings us to legacy and lessons. The Terminator did more than launch a franchise, It launched careers. James Cameron went from a struggling filmmaker with one trouble feature to one of Hollywood's most defining directors, Arnold Schwarzenegger, became more than an action star, he became an icon, and Sarah Connor helped redefine what a female protagonist could be in a science fiction film. But maybe the biggest legacy of The Terminator is how deep it entered our culture. When people hear conversations about artificial intelligence, automation or machines becoming two events, we all think of The Terminator. The film becomes shorthand for our fears about technology, the idea that humanity might create something it can no longer control.

47:18 That fear did exist in nineteen eighty four, and yet somehow it still feels very relevant of the today. The impact of the film became so significant that The Terminator was selected for the Preservation in the National Film Registry by the Library of Congress, recognizing it as culturally, historically, and aesthetically important. But the real legacy lives within the screenplay itself. The script proves something important. Big ideas are not enough. The execution matters. The Terminator is a brilliant concept. It's a brilliant concept machine set back through time to kill the mother of humanity's future. But this screenplay success needs because Cameron and gayle An Hrd build that idea with precision. The structures clean, the tension escalates, the setup pays off, every scene pushes forward. Now, for writers, there are some incredible lessons here. Lesson one, start moving immediately.

48:17 Lesson two, reveal information in layers. Lesson three. Character is built through pressure. Sarah does not become strong because the script says she is. She becomes strong because the story forces her to change. Lesson four. Action is story, the chases and the set pieces. They don't interrupt the character, they create it. And maybe the greatest lesson of all, ordinary people make the best heroes. Sarah Connor starts as a waitress. By the end, she carries the future. That transformation is why the Terminator serves Because beneath the science fiction, beneath the action, beneath the machine, the story is about coming the person the world needs you to be. And more than forty years later, as I said before, like the machine at its center, the screenplay just hasn't stopped.

49:11 I mean, The Terminator became more than a movie. It became how we talk about AI technology, the future. Why do you think it's becomes so relevant for so long culturally, I. Think because the tech wasn't so advanced as to seem unbelievable, and the action takes place on Earth instead of outer space, and it takes place in our Earth. It's not future Earth. It's you know what was fredy are now Earth? You know Los Angeles. It's not glamorous Los Angeles. It's you know, urban neighborhoods, you know, very relatable, you know to everyone.

49:55 And in the end, it's humans fighting the relentless advance of the future and trying to hold on to their place and ultimately succeeding. And I think that all of those things, you know, it just comes back to what is special about humanity and what separates us and what you know makes us unique and special. Well said, yeah, thank you, very Well said yeah. I mean, like I said, the fear was there, then the fear is here now, you know, like I said, it's it's you know it just are we doing this? Is was this a you know fore telling? You know, it's it does creep in your mind, you know, especially if you're like me and you've seen the movie way too many times. Well, let's jump into our companion picks. Each episode, we like to highlight a companion piece that pairs well with the script we are discussing. For this episode, I want to avoid the obvious choices. Now, yes, you can go with the Aliens or Terminator two, which you are welcome to do, but instead I want to look at that's right, I picked more than one. I picked two. You know so good, me too, Two films that connect the Terminator in more interesting ways. My first companion pick is Westworld from nineteen seventy three. At first glance might not seem like the

51:25 obvious in choice, but its influences everywhere you see it echoed through Halloween with Michael Myers and later into The Terminator, the calm, pursuit, the inevitability, this threat that won't stop. I mean, it's fascinating to watch west right now, recognize how many pieces would later appear in Cameron's films. But interesting enough. My second pick is a film, a little seen film, but it's kind of I've been seeing getting some traction online. It's a film called Miracle Mile from nineteen eighty eight. It's a little more unexpected. It captures the same Cold War dread that lives under the Terminator. It's about a guy, Anthony Edwards and the always awesome Mayor Winningham, who have just started dating. And Anthony Edwards takes a phone call and it's a wrong number that the person called, explaining to him though that nuclear war is fifteen minutes away and he's got to like figure all this out. And funny enough, I'm watching it recently because I watched it just very recently and it says produced by the Hemdel Film Corporation. I was like, that's what Terminator was filmed on. And then I started to see some familiar faces. You start to see Earl Bowen, who plays a psychiatrist in The Terminator. You see Jeanette Goldstein, She's in all of Cameron stuff except besides this, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that it really does feel

52:57 like a companion to the Terminator. And it's i mean the same kind of like you can almost imagine it really happening in that universe. So yeah, check out Miracle Mile. I know it's streaming Westworld. I don't know if it is streaming. Funny enough, I tried to actually even restream the series West World, but HBO actually took it off, So wow, what have you got for your two companion picks? So I also went Vintage for one of them. My I, like I said, not a huge fan of time travel. It takes a lot out of me. But I love the nineteen sixty The Time Machine starring Rod Taylor.

53:48 And it's the HG. Wells story of a scientist who builds this time machine and goes forward to see this utopian future that has a dark underlayer two it so humanity is still in danger, but just not in the way that you expect. And I just love that movie. It's absolutely delightful. The effects are really fun. I love Rod Taylor, so that one is the one time travel movie that I'm always hanging on to. I have seen. You're not gonna like this the I only saw the I think it was two thousand and one version.

54:35 No, we don't talk about Bruno no no, yeah, it was count no no no, no no. Seek this out. I think it's I don't know that it's streaming, but you can probably definitely rent it on Amazon. Yeah, I'd like to see it because I've heard its. Original absolute delight. It is so much fun. And then I wanted to do another James Cameron so I picked my personal favorite original story of his. The Abyss. It also has. A great story about relationships and humanity and great machines, and you know, the aliens are really kind.

55:22 Of defined by their machinery and. How that relates to the humans and their machinery. And my my son actually stopped by a film buy and did a Mother's Day episode with Jeff oh Over on the Patreon about this about this movie, and we all agree that it wasn't perhaps as successful as it could have been because Michael Bean is kind of the villain and no one wants to see him. Be a villain. Like he's Kyle Race. He cannot be the bad guy. I I was so excited when that finally came out in the Abyss Special Edition. I think it was like a year or two ago. I mean I only was able to get it like last Christmas. And I've only cracked the surface of that, you know, that collection. I haven't watched seventy percent of the stuff on it, but just what I've seen so far, I mean I've watched it already like once, but I need to watch it again.

56:25 It's it is such a that one is an underrated Uh, definitely an underrated masterpiece. Yeah, I like nobody talks about it enough. I with the I am not a big fan of the Avatar films, but. I slept through the first one like three times, so I've given up on it. But I've tried. Our friend Dayton Johnson over at Docum Bay seventy seven podcast says, I can go ahead and just watch the second one and I'll like it a lot. And I'm not missing out that I have and seen the first one. So that's his advice is dive in and watch the second one.

57:07 So I don't know what out of order. When I've got, you know, six hours to suppare, I'll give it a try. I mean he hit a home run after the Terminator, it was like Terminator Aliens, uh, the Abyss then Terminator too True Lies Titanic. I mean he was just just the champion. Yes, and I hate that he's just kind of decided he's stuck in this. I please, there's I mean, we obviously see there is so much more that you can do besides this world. You did that world. Now give us something new, you know, something different. Yeah, well that's going to be a rap on the Terminator script by James Cameron with Gail An Heard a screenplay that proves great science fiction isn't just about machines, explosions or futuristic ideas. It's about people, about fear about change, and about ordinary, very individuals being forced into extraordinary circumstances. And that's what makes it work. It's not just the action, it's what's underneath it. The fear of technology, the uncertainty of the future, the idea that humanity might create something it cannot stop. He said. More than forty years later, those ideas still feel just as relevant, and maybe that's why the Terminator continues to endure, not simply because of the machine, but because of the woman running from it. Next up on a screen buy we are heading to the docks of Hoboken. We're diving into on the Waterfront, a script by Bud Scholberg, a character

58:41 driven drama of loyalty, corruption, guilt, and redemption that helped redefine realism American film and gave us one of cinema's most iconic performances. That's coming up next, Well, I want to thank my guest Amber Lewis for joining me. Make sure you keep up with a film with new episodes dropping every Monday, and the continuing Star Trek series Phaser set to stun every Wednesday. You can also find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and x Be sure to visit the official site at a wwwafilmbypodcast dot com and email us at a Film By Podcast at gmail dot com. We love hearing from you, sharing opinions, taking requests, and debating great movies that'll do it for a script by.

59:28 Thanks for listening, See you next time.