Drawn Into Lower Decks: recapping The Inner Fight with it's Director Brandon Williams

0:03 Mariner boiler Starfleet is better with you in it. I know, way man, I had your bag wrong. Yeah, I thought you were like a boring worker drone and you are. It's a sort of unfair. Hello everyone, Welcome back to Drawn into Lower Decks on a limited series from a film by a podcast that focus is on the animated comedy Star Trek Lower Decks. This week, we're getting ready for the season finale with an animated discussion about the latest epic mission of the USS soritos So Red Alert listeners. Spoilers are ahead for the previous episode. If you haven't seen the latest episode, please go watch it before you hear what we have to say. As usual, I'm Scott Hoffmann. Oh, I got stick to my boots. Oh I'm sorry. This is David Burns, Holy Cow coming back. And I'm Wayne Whited. Yeah, and obviously, finally thanks to doctor Julian Bisheer's efforts to set him free from section thirty one, David Burns, welcome back, my friend. Thank you. It's good to be ben. I appreciate it.

1:08 Yeah, and this week we've also got an exciting treat for you Lower Deckers. Joining us today is the director of the latest episode, Brandon Williams. Brandon, thank you so much for giving me some time today. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it absolutely. I want to start off by talking about your career in Star Trek and Beyond, if you don't mind, Brandon, So, you're an experienced storyboard artist who's worked on an animated Moral Kombat movie, comedy series, Little Demon and Solar Opposites, and of course several episodes we've already talked about in lower decks. So with this season being your debut as a director, with these three outstanding episodes, what can you tell us about moving from storyboard artist to director. I think the biggest change was the amount of drawing that I would do. Our producer, Barry Kelly, he's our supervising producer and I think he's one of the EPs on the show now. He sort of tried to talk me out of it in the interview.

2:05 He was like, Hey, you know, you're not going to be drawing that much. So he's like, if you want a draw you should just stay story artists. I was like, no, nice. Yeah, it was. It was cool because we were already in like we knew each other. It was very informal, like I did an interview for it, but they had basically already offered the position to me because I'd been on the show for a little while. And what I would do every time I left any show at the end of the season or whatever as a storyboard artist, I would I would give my little goodbye email and I would put hey would love to come back next season director spot opens up, you know, would love to do that. And everywhere I would you know, whether it was you know, Solar Opposites or Lower Decks or any of the shows I'd work on, and then Lower Decks is just the one that it happened to work out. And we were actually they were talking about bringing me back on as a storyboard artist and I was working on that and I was like, cool, this is going to be great season four storyboards. And then they're like, actually, do you want to direct? And I was like, hell yeah. So I was very excited to do that. It was It was very cool and I feel very lucky that that's the show that I got to make that leap on, So that was exciting. I got a I got a twofold question here for you, So any thoughts about maybe moving into directing live action or you want to stick with animation. Yeah, I think I'm animation to the to the core man, that's it, because I've thought, you know, I've thought about it. Of course, I think everyone thinks about it. And it's not like I would say no. If somebody like offered me that up on a silver platter, I'd be like, sure,

3:37 let's do it. I've got thoughts and how things work. But I think because it doesn't really work that way, you have to really go out and get it. Especially in live action, you sort of have to put things together. What I'd actually like to try and do is put together more projects the way they put together live action films, right, how people go out and they're like, get investor money and all that and put together. I would love to do that with animation a little bit more now that it's becoming more possible to make animation for less and you can kind of pull talent from all over the world and it's a little bit less like you have to have, you know, the whole system in place in one place like it used to be. So Yeah, I love animation. I'm here for animation, Liace, don't I don't blame you. It's animation is awesome, It really is. Yeah, you do a great job with it. So my second part of the question is, you know, I love to create, and I have a process that I go through, you know, when I'm you know, creating storyboards or creating something. What does your process look like when you come to like directing, for instance, you this is your first season of doing that. What does that look like for you on a daily basis?

4:46 So the process of directing very different from storyboarding, of course, even though a lot of times we say that storyboard artists are kind of the first directors, Like it's your first chance to take a script from words to images, right, So you sort of direct a scene, you know, you do you get you get all these parts, you know, ship designed, so that not everything though you don't always have everything. So as a storyboard arts you sort of have to You might have to like make stuff up or with Star Trek, which is awesome as well. You just go into the big cannon like you have all the books, like you have all the ship books, the shipyards, the you know, and then you start looking through it and be like what do I need to understand? Like how does this technology work? So that's helpful. That's like the great thing about working in the Star Trek world. But like, so as a director, it's more you have to sort of you're organizing the entire episode and then you're casting the parts. Like that's like a weird thing about directing an animation because your storyboard artists are like actors and cinematographers and editors like the first pass of all that.

5:51 So you sort of like you look at you know, hopefully you know your team. And I and I had some of the same team from that I worked with as a storyboard arist, so I kind of knew some of the people and I go, Okay, I think this person's a good action person. So like, like one of the board artists is Brandon McKinney, so like we have the two brands on the team, and he's like a great action board artist. He's worked on a lot of DC stuff and like Harley Quinn in between, and we work together on Solar opposites and so I always I'm like, okay, so if I have an action scene, I can give it to him and who and then like you have another artist, You're like, oh, we have the emotional scene, so I'll give the emotional scene and obviously we'll get to it. Everyone took a pass on the cave emotional scene, so that one was like a whole all hands on deck effort. But usually you try and cast it and then you know, like I will admit, like to some extent, you're a middle manager as a director in TV animation or in just TV in general, Like I have things that I want to accomplish with each episode I have. You know, you have the script and you're like, Okay, I'm going to like lead.

6:53 This is what's important to me, So I'm going to try and get this in there. But you know, Barry has like, hey, we need this and we need that, and of course Mike comes in and does his pass on everything. So I'm more there to like support the storyboard artists and the team, get everyone like wrangle everything and then like bring the episode into a coherent vision, right because Mike McMahon and Berry and Brad and all they're looking at everything all the time, right, so they can't like look at one episode. So I have to look at one episode and be like are we getting the story right? Like are we connecting these pieces? Because sometimes something will work really well in the script and I'll read it and be like, oh, this is great. Everything makes sense, right, and then you start boarding it out and you're like, oh, actually like this like the fruit, it doesn't We didn't really it doesn't seem like they're fighting over the fruit. So we have to actually like put that story in there, or we will find like visual elements to tie things together, especially when you have like a lot of sci fi elements that you're like, this is this is like half real, it's half technobabble made up, So how can we like visually like make sure we're understanding everything. So that's kind of like where I come in mostly is like bringing the entire episode into a singular vision that matches what you know, Barry and Mike and everyone and we're all trying to do with the show. So like each director is like you make sure that all those pieces are working in place, and you just make you know, like shit happens all the time, right, like board artists misses the mark

8:28 on that one or they get sick and like and then I come in and take over and like for the episode that we're going to talk about for four h nine, Like I boarded the beginning because I wanted a little piece of it. Like when you get a really good episode, you're like, I want a piece of it. I did a piece on five or four oh three also, but the one in the middle of the Feengi episode was like, that's when things are too crazy, because like, as a director, I'm actually managing all three episodes at the same time at one point, so you can't quite get your hands on it on all the episodes, but usually the first and the last one, I'm like, I'll take a couple of pages, and Barry's always like, are you sure. He's like, you're sure, it's busy. I'm like, yes, I want. I want to draw these little acid creatures creatures. So that's I mean, and yeah, So that's kind of the approach you are asking. That's more like what I do. You're asking more about the actual approach, and that is like it's it's all about finding the story, like casting the story, organizing the story, whereas a board artist is a little bit different storybard artists, it's a little more like bringing it down into phases and asking yourself questions all the time, like what is this person feeling right now in this scene or that scene? Like or and not just doing what the script tells you to do, but like, what's the subtext of what the script's telling me to do?

9:52 Oh, it's a Mariner's saying this, but I have a feeling what she really feels is something else, And like it's up to me, like how do I like put that onto the screen? Like how do I suggest that with with how I'm making her act or where I'm putting her in the scene and all that. So that that's kind of like that process a little bit great, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, And there's there's so much complexity with this show because you have, aside from you know, everything that's connected within the season, it's the little details, the easter eggs and you know, all the things that are that are yet to come. Uh, and it all just comes together seamlessly. I mean, at least from our perspective, it looks like it's absolutely seamless. So it's it's coming together really really well. Yeah, thank you. You know, do you know that you remember the episode the buffer time episode in season one? What one is that called? Oh? Yeah, where they have to yeah they try to be more economical. Yeah, yeah, and it's with the crystal guys right, Yeah, like attacking the ship and everything. I can't remember it off the top of my head or now, but that's kind of how it feels like making the show. Like we're all running around like and then like thankfully it comes out and it's like it looks like we did, but I mean, stuff is changing and happening all the way up until those like they have to do the delivery, and the delivery is like a few weeks before the episode airs, but like like basically like once you pass a certain threshold,

11:22 like oh, we can no longer change like this, it'll be yeah, but can we can we tweet the line? Can we bring the actor back in and like change like they It's just like it's the scramble, Like we make it look like we aren't scrambling around, but it is kind of red alert all the time, like you like making this show. So what we're seeing is just the exterior the soritos, but inside it's people are running around, things are sparking and smoking and crazy and alcohol is flying everywhere exactly. There's like black fungus on the walls. Yeah, you're like phasering a virus while also trying to like fix something in engineering. That's how I feel right now for sure, because I'm just in the busiest part. Like there's like a little there's different parts throughout a season where you're busier and less busier, and I'm in that like extreme Like I think I've got one hand on a phaser, like shooting some invader like while also trying to repair you know, like the gravity or something like that. It's crazy, some kind of conduit or something. Yeah, yeah, there's always a conduit, and I'll shine a light on it. Well, just for context, I'll shed some light on what the interfight was all about. Give a little synopsis here. So we're closer than ever to solving the season mystery about who's been stealing ships and crews throughout the Quadrant. But Mariner's self destructive behavior has Captain Freeman worried about her daughter's well being, and she sends Mariner, Tendy Boimler and to Lynn on what seems to be a safe mission, while Rutherford joins Freeman in shacks on away team that's searching for some missing notable Federation citizens. I thought it was a thrilling episode that leaves reveals a lot, a lot more than we

12:58 ever thought it would, but it still leaves with a bit of an ominous cliffhanger. So written by Mike McMahon and Ben m Waller and directed by our guest Brandon Williams. So Brandon, it's easy to tell there's a lot of love for Star Trek in the show, especially from Mike the show creator. And I know you two have worked together on Solar Opposites before, which is a slightly different kind of comedy. I'm wondering how those experiences compare between the two. So Solar is more you're serving, like you're serving the jokes and like the heart of the show, because there's a heart in Solar, Like it comes off as being like, oh, it's like a you know, a typical adult family sitcom and we're just making jokes, but there's a heart to it the family and they're growing. And I think the biggest challenge on Solar is like you have to kind of figure out their weird little sci fi stuff and like gags and like make that interesting. Yeah, but like the stakes are more about like making it funny, right, So like you're always trying to be like making sure we're like you have to serve a moment, you have to serve the comedy unless you're doing a episodes, And I did the first like the one oh seven Everything in the Wall episode. That one was different because you had to really serve that story. That was a challenge that was very similar Lower Decks. For Lower Decks, you it's a little bit more story first, like like you're always serving comedy and obviously all like the references and whatnot. But I think Lower Decks has a story of its own that you're trying to make sure you're getting right all the time, and the characters and all that. So I think that that's like the different challenges they have and you have to just like get certain things right because there's like

14:30 Star Trek has rules and legacy and it's like some are made to be bent and broken and others we have to be, you know, really careful about. And so I think that that is like like one is a playground where you could you can kind of just like have fun and as long as you serve the comedy and the moment, you're good. The other one is like a legacy that like you feel lucky to be a part of and you want to make sure that you're doing the best you can like be an important part and like serve that legacy that is like Star Trek and all that. Yeah, at least that's how I feel about it, and that's what I feel. The difference is, Okay, you're doing a really good job with what you're doing in the material that you're giving us as fans, because I'm telling you it just I look forward every episode and I'm just pouring into all of them immensely with what you guys do. So you know, it may look like chaosa and now you're back end, but for us, I'm telling you, it's just it's brilliant. Yeah, oh thanks that thank you. That's awesome. And we really try, especially as a director, like I'm always trying to consider that right, like I'm trying to make sure I know, like I really think a big part of like how I even managed to get it, you know, from storyboarding was like yes, of course, it's like story skills and all that, but also I would always just try I was always trying to like make sure the logic of all the Trek stuff like worked within the story of the scene. In each scene. I was always like trying to work that stuff out and Now that really helps as a director because sometimes, you know, not every storyboard artist is like a Star Trek

16:03 fan, right, Or they might be a fan of a certain area, right, Like maybe they're like Deep Space nine is like their jam and they're all about Deep Space nine. That was like their favorite show. But we're referencing Voyager stuff, and like, I don't know what this what is this Voyager? You know what I mean? Like I don't understand all these Voyager references. But like, like for me, luckily, I've watched all of it and like and refreshed all of it on lower decks. So I think that that can like help, you know, I can help like pull it all together into like one cohesive story, you know, so that hopefully, you know, I mean, I will say that everyone tries to get their little like the putting in the references is a it's like a it's like a layer cake that everyone gets their little chance to Like I'll try and put little stuff in there, you know, Like obviously it starts with the writers.

16:49 It starts with Mike and then the writers, right, and then I try and put stuff in there, and then designers will try and put stuff in there, you know, and then even I think the animators are like, maybe we can, and you know what about this pose We'll try and make look like you know, Spock in this one episode or something like that. Nice, Like everyone is doing it all the way through. Everyone's like kind of trying to get their little Trek reference in there. Well, you do it so well that the Beverly Crusher thing when I laughed, Oh, teach me how to tap, teach me how to I laughed so much that I have a that's funny you mentioned that because I scratched that line in there and it didn't exist really, and that was my little I was like, because you mentioned every pressure earlier in the episode, I was like, I think I have a chance to like put something in here. And everyone loved it so like it's it stayed, and I was like so happy that that little gag got in there. The man, because I tell you, I laughed.

17:45 I went back and watched it two or three times and I was just like I laughed every single time when that happened. So good job on that. Yeah, I am so glad that you kept that in. I was when I was watching it. You know, obviously she's had so many you know, artistic kind of exploration on Next Generation, but then knowing that as Gates McFadden, she's done so much work as a choreographer. M h Like I was watching the behind the scenes of Labyrinth with Jim Henson, and I see her choreographing the thing. I'm like, oh my god, this doctor Crusher. You got the dance traffic that delights me, So thanks very much for doing that. Yeah, yeah, it was funny. It was It made me cringe the whole time because it stayed my stupid scratch, but it didn't really like try like you know, you know when you scratch something and you just do it really quickly because you're expecting it to just be a placeholder, and when that placeholder just stays in there until you know, they pick up Jack like on the on the back end because they had already recorded him for the episode, and then they do like pickups and whatnot. Later.

18:40 It was just like, oh my god, Like how many people have heard me say this dumb little line where I wasn't trying hard enough. So I've learned my lesson. Now if I scratch something like you kind of got to like go for it, like go for it and and and make it as best as you possibly can. You know, I'm not much of a voice actor, but like it's going to stay in there forever. It's in canon now so many people are gonna see like here. But even like because it's like you work with temp stuff for so long, Like so many people, like the animators all had my student scratch in there, you know, when they were pulling together posts like until they get those final pickups of the actors like that. So many people like heard that version of it. And there's like lots of other scratch too. There's all sorts of people scratching stuff and sometimes we even have Mike doing it, which is always fun, but it's just embarrassing. It's obvious that you're you're a fan of Star Trek. What's some of your favorite series and episodes? I think the heart that's the hardest question, right, Like what's your favorite series? Some people it's easy.

19:44 I'm always torn. I kind of flip flop between Next Generation and DS nine nice and then this week. Yeah, we could get into a whole thing and and all that, because like it just goes back and forth. But we're talking like the difference between like like ninety eight percent and a ninety nine percent right, But yeah, but I think ultimately what puts it over the top for TNG with me is the hopefulness of it. Like it's true, like it really I mean obviously, like once they get rolling, it gets really pulpy and fun, and they obviously have all sorts of cool episodes and whatnot, but but at its core, Next Generation I think is the most hopeful about humanity's future. Right, And in some sense, I'd say d S nine is a direct like criticism of that or maybe like inverse because it's like, well, how does the Federation deal with war or something more important?

20:41 And you have all those great characters and you know, the Frangie and so it's hard because like and jed Zia is like great, but I think, like I think I like the hopefulness of and TG sticks that landing that the season finale is like one of the greatest season finales, where like d S nine, that last season, you're a little it can be a little rough. Sometimes there's bright spots in it, but you're like, yeah, all right, some of it's not their fault. Some of it's like the nature like stuff happens, right, like in production like people leave or whatever, and now you have to make choices and then after that. I think Star Trek six on Discovered Country is one of my favorite good grade grade.

21:23 It's got the diplomacy. Diplomacy is hard. It's like not about winning with fighting, and I think that that is like so rare, you know. I mean they make it action packed and exciting. Of course you have to have an assassination in a prison, so it's got a little bit of everything. But at the end of the day, it's like getting over prejudice, yeah, and and negotiating with like the enemy, right, so like I and it's just so rare and not and not much media covers, you know, conflict that way. So it's really like the best of Star Trek at its core. And then there's of course all the fun stuff, you know, gravity boots and all that. I could see a lot. I can see a lot of love for for Star Trek six in this one, because there was so much pink, bloody trapping. When my kind of rears up his head, I'm like, oh wow, I'm not gonna watch Star Trek six. Also Star Trek five. Unfortunately, now you have to watch Star Trek five two yeah, because we did a lot of the bar and the desert stuff was very like the bait, like a Spock's brother. He has the bass, right and they do like yeah, they come in on the horses and all of that. Like a lot of that I felt. I felt that's what I was drawing from when I was doing that section of it, because I didn't want to be two Star Wars, right, that's always the challenge. But when you look at everything, you're like, oh, well, anything Star Wars has done, there's kind of a Star Trek version

22:55 somehow, Like there's been so much because because everyone just wants to do sci fi, Like Bonnie Hunters are just a sci fi thing, right, Like we all want to do Bonnie Hunters. But like once you do Bonnie Hunters, you're like, oh, we're fucking Star Wars land because they're more famous for it. So I was like, well, yeah, Star Trek five has the commune in the desert and all it's perfect. That was our reference for a while, or like that was my like when I go to look for like the visual language, it's also really well composed movie. Like they might have its flaws in terms of the whole thing, but I actually think like a lot of the scenes are really good, oh just too many of Yeah, well and yeah, now I do have to go back and watch it because I know that Strange New Worlds at one point was dropping a little bit of a teaser with Spock's brother. It didn't necessarily go anywhere, but yeah, that's just this show does such a great job as kind of this nexus of Star Trek. You know, it can it can make you We've talked about this tons of times on the show, but it will make you have nostalgia and want to go back and watch things you've loved before. It'll make you want to go explore new things, Like there's parts of Voyager that I've never thought about looking at that I've explored because of this show. And I mean with this in particular, you know talked about Next Generation. This feels like a spiritual sequel of sorting this kind of unfinished trilogy when you've got the first Duty where they're introducing Nick and Seido and the Lower Decks episode where we see CDO's kind of redemption or growth as a sort, and this kind

24:26 of continues on from that. It was a very clever pull and I know that I've heard Mike McMahon talk about, you know, kind of swinging wide, swinging for the fence with this one, and I think it's paying off because I had to immediately go and watch those those episodes and then also connecting to dsntle Like you said, the Dominion War in Mariner's speech when she and a are in Yoda's house. At least, that's what I made me think of, where she talked about the dominion War and kind of the too the two ends of those series. It was very interesting. Yeah, I was.

25:07 I was actually very scared when I read that script because I was like, if we pull this off, which I think we did, I was like, where are we going to go from here? It's so good and like somehow, you know, the show keeps going and it keeps it It just keeps getting better, and I like also by the end of it, I sort of felt I had this feeling. I was like, this feels like the end of Mariner's arc. And then the more I thought about it, and I was like, actually, wait, this is the beginning of it. Yeah, like she's she's she's facing this for the first time, like what what her inner struggle? Obviously that's episode right in her fight, she's kind of facing it for the first time. And I think like in narrative, once you face your like inner demon, you tend to it tends to be over right, and you move forward. But in life, that's not how life works. We have to face our inner demons our fears multiple times, you know, even if you even if it's not as extreme as you know what like losing a friend in war or whatnot, which is very sad, but like it's like you might come to a revelation or maybe you get therapy or maybe whatever it is, but like that's still work, Like you still have to keep moving forward. And I think that, like, you know, I'm kind of hoping as we go forward that like Mariner has to sort of reface that challenge with her new insights to who she is.

26:26 Yeah, like so hopefully seven season. I mean we might need ten honestly to get there, to really to really drive that home where I feel like like mental health and personal struggle isn't a a one punch like knockout kind of victory. And I think that like we I really hope we can explore that side of it, because that's one thing I think Lower Dex is doing pretty good at is like those personal struggles that the characters have is and overcoming them and then you know it's it's tough, like you might overcome a doubt, but like it comes back again. Yeah, so that's cave. Yeah, I would say the cave is it's frozen lava. It's like that. That's a little background is it were these it's these frozen lava bubbles we had.

27:18 We had a scene with more of them that we we couldn't we couldn't keep just because you know, the episode is packed as it is, but yeah, the whole thing is like it's part of that like rain and you know there's the ice rain ice like shards. Yeah, so that's from the volcanic like emission creates that in the atmosphere and then all the all the lava that gets spewed out in different places, like it freezes over into those bubble case. It was really cool. This episode has so many coolnt even get to, like, you know, we didn't get to serve that in the episode because we had, you know, important characters, but there's some nerdy, you know background that's awesome. You know what I was gonna say is the the the whole cave scene just really cut me by surprise just how deep that turned out to be in what she explained to us of what was causing her, you know, and have her outbursts and stuff like that, but you know, to to feed on what you're talking about. It's it's her growth now. You know, we're gonna see her trajectory go somewhere else now because you know she's growing, you know, as an individual, and you know, at this time she'd been on an instant what ten years is that sound about right? That's a really long time to be an instant if you think about that. Yeah. So I just thought that whole moment in that cave was just incredibly well done. So please pack yourself on the back for that one, you and your team everybody, because when that scene was done, I was just like, Wow, that was deep. That was awesome.

28:42 So great job. Well, I'll tell you too, it is a tough It was a really tough scene too, because you know, because I when I read it, I had the same thought. I was like, Oh, I was like wow. I was like I was like, Micro really knocked out of the park with this one, because not only is it so amazing in its own right, the way it connected to Soito and something like that. I was just like blown away. I was like, oh, this is awesome, but it's a scene you have to everyone has to sort of trust that it's gonna work, especially in storyboards, right, because like we do a lot of poses, a lot of drawings, but it's not the same as animation, right. So Tawani came in and did an incredible voice performance, but all she has is voice, right, so she's trusting us to like take her amazing performance. And like she came in and they did it a few times, and she came in and did it. And then like like I said, my storyboard artist did a pass on it was awesome. Like I did a pass on it, Barry did a pass on it. Like we had revisionists going in because it just was one of those scenes we had to get right and every time you cut the camera it would change the emotion of the scene. So we had to just and then like it was one of those things where everyone along the way were like, it's gonna work in animation. You just gotta trust us. It's gonna work.

29:55 It's gonna work. And even Mike was like, I know this is gonna work, but can we do this and that? And I was like yeah, yeah, I was like we could do it. And it was just like one we all had to put a lot of faith that like, once it comes together, it's going to work. But along the way, it was like a really tough scene to get right. I'm sure it was. Yeah, that that entire sequence I think is a credit to your work as a director, you know, like you talked about before, trying to to wrangle all these different kind of elements to take all these different influences and turn it into something that in that in that kind of mini sequence, you're getting a lot of action, You're getting a fair amount of comedy, You're getting a lot of emotional depth and expressiveness that just comes through so well that you can just identify with with both of the characters. And yeah, I mean I could even see some some wrestling influences there and when they're fighting outside and I'm pretty sure he was like, hey, this is my chance. I mean, Barry is really into wrestling too, so like everyone is kind of putting it. You get with fight scenes, everyone gets their chance to like cool stuff in there and put their person because I usually do like anime stuff when I get a chance to do that or like, so it's just fun to see everyone. I like that. At the end of that scene, something I really made sure to try and keep is a little boop the nose at the end that Fabian did that. Oh yeah, that was like a great little It's like he's so Mariner, Like you said, we're friends.

31:22 Bo that was awesome, especially do a cling on You're like, oh my god, yeah we're friends. Now, no we're not. We are will not be booped. You said I proved my to do. I said, humanity proved it to do. It's so good. Yeah, that was definitely one of my favorite moments in the episode. Absolutely. We talk a lot about deep cuts on this show and how the series in general does a great job of taking you back to favorite moments and making you want to dive into new things. Like I say before, how do how do those easter eggs kind of factor into your work both as a storyboard artist and as director.

32:08 Well, sometimes it's just like fun that you're just trying to like get in there right, Like you're just like, oh, like nothing was specifically called out, but we're in the anomaly storage room, right, and I'm like, what can I put in the anomaly storage room? And it's like my chance, I was, like, my chance to draw a bat let, you know, or whatever you know it is to do so that the first I think go around of that. It's just like a fun like what can I try and get in there? But I think at the at the higher levels, like I know, like story always comes first, so everyone's like we have to make sure that the story's working first, and that like Lower Decks as its own. But that's my little soapbox too. Is that Like as much as I love all the references, I think Lower Decks has a lot to say and contribute. The ceretras, in fact, I think is one of the great ships added to the canon. It is then they, you know, some behind closed doors in a much far away place, they make certain decisions about like the world of Trek, and that's so far above my pay grade, I don't know. And then like I think Mike comes out of there being I know what I can do now, and then like he does his brilliant thing where he's like okay, like we're going to do these thing. We're gonna like make these references like Cido is probably a good example, like you know, he's like this has been and that's probably was something he had in his heart the whole time and was building up to.

33:28 But who knows. I don't know exactly. And then like they work all that stuff, they work in the important big stuff, right, and then the writer who gets the script, you know, because it's not always Mike, right, they get to kind of go in there and be like, what is my trek knowledge and like what's my da da da, you know what I mean? And they do that, and we have you know, and we have like a science advisor and all that and trek Advisor and all that's to make sure our technobabble's good and everything like that. But it's like every and then I get it and I'm like awesome, And then Barry's like, hey, let's do this. Let's have this thing in the back or or don't have this thing in the background. Sometimes you try and put stuff in and it's like, well, we've done Mugato's in the background, you know X amount of times, Let's try something different, or hey, I saw you put this thing in there. We have to take it out because like actually that's going to be something important for me, you know what I mean. It's yeah, everyone kind of goes in there and like tries to put their little mark on it with their favorite thing from the show. And I still haven't even gotten all of my preferences. I want to get in there yet, but I can't. Nice, no, please don't we want to. I'm imagining somebody, like in an office building that has section thirty one on the door, comes out and just does a bunch of redacted stuff on the script. Ye can't do this shit we're doing in other places.

34:43 I think that that might happen. I don't know. I can't confirm nor deny careful section thirty one or that anyone does that, but I know that there are some things that it's like, oh you can and can't do that, and or it's because it's like something we're doing for the story, or it's like other trecks that like, no, somebody else is going to do something with that thing. You're like, oh, what are they doing? Then we try and then you go sneaking trying your fine, well, what is strange New World's up to? Well, Waite on the show is always this. I always respect as you know him as a font of knowledge on Star Trek. We will go in to getting into the easter eggs way.

35:23 We're a couple that stood out to you. Well. I did some research on this, especially in terms of the timeline. The mention of the four x Starfley personnels being targeted. One was seven of nine from Star Trek Voyager, and this episode takes place three years after the events of Voyager's last episode, End Game, So I'm not sure if she's yet into the bounty hunting stage that we saw in Picard, but she's definitely not Starfleet anymore. Then we got Beverly Crusher, which this one interested me the most because this is exactly twenty years before we saw her on Picard, which means that she's either she's either pregnant or has just had Jack Crusher. Oh yeah, so she's just left Star Fleets. And then we finally got a mention of Thomas Reiker in his fate. You know, we saw him last on DS nine on The Defiant. He got sent to a Cardassian prison. We didn't know what happened to, especially with the Dominion War. Apparently he's still alive, and I'm really glad to hear that because I'd like to see him again. And then Nick Lucarna from the First Duty that was thirteen this thirteen years before this episode, so again we got to find out what happened to him. Although I never thought we'd see that character again. What is surprise, Ben, I was really surprised with this episode. And then I have to mention this one too, mister Broker. Yes, oh my gosh, Yes, that made me laughter. The entire scene. He looks like the Baylock puppet puppet

36:55 from Corbonite Maneuver and pretty much every shot final shot in every episode of the original series when Captain Freeman picked him up and found out that she was or he was not a puppet, that I I laughed so hard on that that was her face, her face if you if you know you did a fantastic job because the moment that she found out realized that that was not a puppet was was perfect. Oh and then there's one more, uh Nick Lakna's jacket, the patch on it that definitely is a reference to the the Colvert starburst, which is what he got him thrown out of the U Starfleet Academy back in that first episode the First Duty yep, And I noticed that was on the wing of the Klingon ship as well, but just in passing, like it goes by so fast you can barely register it. But I see that, thank you, something's painted there. Uh yeah, you really, you really that you ego eye that one. But yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that Beverly Crusher reference because I did the same thing. I went into less and like, wow, that's an intricate little Picard easter ring, like it might be that she's been missing just because she was trying to have a baby.

38:07 Yeah, but talk to us a little bit about that that Baylock puppet, because the it was it was done so well, especially the the mouth movement reminded me of Zoltar from Big just that kind of like you know, like a metronome hinge, just kind of like talking like you know, the quick movements and all of the kind of stuff out of sync, the out of sync yes yeah movement, which was really tough because that was one thing you can't do in boards because we don't do lip sync and story wards, right, it's just mouth open, mouth closed or you like hit an expression that serves it. So that was another one where it was like it's gonna work. Trust Everyone was just like, trust this, it'll work when it's fully animated. But we did Dante again. Actually, the assistant director went in at one point was like, I think, like I can get this rotation and if we put you know, and then you know, my the editor and I put a sound effect that was like a like a like a gear rotating. So he was like, and that like helped get us through it through the whole, like it's a puppet, it's gonna work. It's the joke's gonna work. But like some of these jokes that like they're so funny on the page and like you can you can make it work in storyboarding, but it's really a joke that's for the finished animation. Mm hmm.

39:20 It's like it just requires everyone to kind of trust us and then we just have to do the best we can. I almost I was this close. I was like, let's just animate it. Like we shouldn't do that. That's really outside the parameters of what we're doing. But I'm like, even if we just did it for one shot to like show everyone, and we got kind of close. But I think what was really cool is the shot where they pick him up and you see rutter Bird's point of view and you see all the internal organs. Yeah, that was that was an awesome shot. And we were trying to avoid it because it's like because he was like flailing around him, Like, this is gonna be really hard for the animators to have to do him flailing around and all of his internal organs. But it was one that was like so cool. It's like we're just gonna have to do it, so like once you saw it in the boarder, like, we have to do it. It's so cool. That's like the first sequence you hand over, you're like, this is gonna take the longest time.

40:07 Let's just get started here. And then yeah, it's one of the it's the juice is worth the squeeze, right, So you have to you always have to kind of choose your battles, you know, especially in an episode this big that has so many great moments where you're like, there's only so much juice, right, we have to put it in the right places. But that was one where I was like, that's gonna be worth it because I think this is a legacy like joke essentially, right, and and like we're really hopefully surprising everyone that it's not the puppet. And then it's like it's I think like the idea is like it's the alien that the puppet was probably based on, right, thet they used like the in Cannon puppet. So I loved that bit too because I was like, oh, awesome, like this is our like our throwback to the TOS era, you know for this episode, because it was a little more TNG heavy, right or primary heavy, I guess, which is great. We all love the prime era. Oh yeah, are there some that you think that everyone is missing?

41:01 Like no one has seen this these one or two Easter eggs. I mean, honestly, there's stuff that you guys have mentioned that I was like, well, I didn't notice. Like I said, everyone puts in their little like everyone. There's so many phases, right that it goes through from like directing, you know, storyboarding and just you know script storyboarding, design, color, and then there's a lot of animation phases where they can kind of like tweak stuff and change stuff. So I mean, I think you guys are far more egoied than I was, because I wasn't even thinking. You know, Wayne mentioned the Beverly Crusher. I didn't even realize that she was, Oh yeah, she's probably pregnant or just had based on where we are in the timeline. I wasn't even thinking. Although when I was working on this episode, I don't think that episode of Card three hadn't come out yet, so I didn't even quite know that. But you know, I know that there were forces above. That is new. Yeah, because there's coordination right between the whole Star Trek universes, somewhat coordinated now, So yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of something to give you, Like that's why I gave the Lava background story and I was like, you know, no, I mean that makes me want to go back and watch it a fourth time, Like I've re watched this so many times. It's fantastic. Even the opening sequence has evolved over the the series, and it kind of represents in a way the entire series. You know, like there's

42:32 there's serious missions with a serious you know, need to get certain things done and just decisions where they decide not to and you know, the comedy end of kind of turning it around. But that there's one particular part with the board Ship which just seems to have grown with every season because there's more and more ships in this giant battle, they just nope it around. Yeah, it's just I don't know. To me, it kind of represents like if if you love Trek in the slightest or if you've never given Trek a try, this is a great way to kind of get into that or you know, kind of rediscover some things that you love about it. It's a gateway for all of Star Trek. In my opinion, it really is. Yeah.

43:17 I always tell that to people too who are like, oh, I don't know, I don't know much about Star Trek. I'm like, guess what, this is the perfect place to start ye Star War lower decks. If you like it, which I know you will because we work so hard to make a good will, you just will have to go check out some of the other because we talk like even if you don't know all the references, you're not going to notice stuff in the background, but like they talk about stuff like Okay, what is the deal with kirkins Bock or what is the deal with Nick Locarno, or and then you go and you watch it and then like, cause I feel like I'm confident that if you're into fantasy and sci fi if that is like something you enjoy. If you get started in Star Trek, you will get sucked in. And it's just such a great world to get in and be a part of. And like, even if you don't love every series or every version, like there's something for everyone, you know, in all of them. And I just think that like if Lower Decks can help bring more people into that and like realize it, Like maybe reluctant people were like, no, I'm a Star Wars person.

44:15 I'm like, you'll be a Star Trek person. You'll be a tracking by the end of Lower Decks. Oh yeah, absolutely. Star Trek always gives us wonderful characters, they really do. But Lower Decks just blew it out of the water. It's giving us just characters that you just love and adore and you want to learn more. So yes, I completely agree with that, you know, as a as a tangent, I'm not sure that this is canon or whatnot, but you know, the Tian Now, I've been visiting the tie in novels or like the light novels for anime terms, and so I listened to Imzodi who wanted too. Yeah, yeah, and that's so you got your Thomas Reiker's story. They kind of talk about what happens after the I think in Zoti too, right, he escapes the prison.

45:00 I know it's not technically canon order, but I like to like some of the ones that are really good. I'm like, that's probably can't And then you know, Jonathan Franks reads the first one, which was really good. Well, there's the Peter David novels, right, yeah, yeah, they're really good. Yeah. And then I listened to Q and Law, which is the one where Ana and and now I'm onto Stitch in Time because I want the whole Garrick nice nicely. Yeah, And that's been kind of fun. And that now I'm getting ideas though to like because like I've expanded, I'm expanding outside the show finally, So I'm like, ooh, this kind of give me like different ways to think about these characters that I can maybe like find places to like bring that influence into lower decks, you know, if we you know, as we as we move forward, just like different ways of thinking of the characters when you see other people writing them, you know, for another medium, and it's kind of like getting extra episodes, you know, you wish there's more TNG. You're like, well, I mean these books are pretty they're like good episodes, you know they are.

46:04 Yeah, they are, and I can forgot about them now. I want to go back and read them where they have someone. Yeah, when someone's reading them that you know, like if it's a freaks is reading it, or I think you and law have both reading it. Not all of them. Some of the books have and they're great. You know, voice actors are amazing. I love voice actors working in animation, but with Star Trek, when you have anyone from Star Trek reading them, it's like you feel like you're more in the world. Yeah, well, I know that you know what happens next, and I know that we can't spoil anything trying careful. How do you how do you feel? How do you feel about the upcoming season finale? Oh, it's it's gonna be awesome. I can't wait, because I wasn't sure how excited or how ego eyed the fans were going to be about the story arc that's being set up through this season. You just never know, Like you think it's like, oh, everyone's gonna love it and be great. You just you never know. But everyone's been really into it, and what I was loving up to nine was all the wrong predictions I was reading though. Yeah, I was like showing the worst predictions, and I was like, oh, we had a few. We had a few ourselves there. We never guessed what you guys come up with.

47:20 Yeah, Wayne and I were talking about a few badgies more and I was like, well, that knocks out all three of these possibilities. I'm not going to go back to it. Well that was good too, because it like it like this season also kind of led you down a certain path and then answered or like blocked off those potential theories along the way, which I think was really fun because then you're like, well, what are they going to do? And you were never in a million years gonna guess Nick Lakarna was coming back to the show. No, except for if you were. Some of the press coverage way before after somewhere around season three, Robert Duncan McNeil kept talking in interviews by He's oh, I can't wait, I'm gonna do more lower and everyone was like, quiet, stop, this is a big plan. I mean you I I I because I heard that once and I was like, well, oh, We're probably gonna have Tom Parris do like another cameo or something like that, Like that would be cool, like because I never even would have imagined in a million years that we would connect to Nicole Carno. So like, you know, props props to Mike for that, because the man deep cut, it doesn't get much more obscure than that. I'm picturing him at a con with a guy in sunglasses wearing a Section thirty one badge just kind of leans over and whispers to him, like, you can't do those kind of things. We got We gotta keep that on the down though. But yeah, but yeah, I do think it's gonna be amazing. You like it, you have no idea what you're in store for it, and I'm very excited about it. But there is something about that, like I love the the countdown before the explicit, like,

48:53 uh, four oh ten is like the explosion right of everything we're building up with, and then like nine, I think, is that like countdown clock and like the explosion is great, but I sometimes I'm just like all the tension of building up to it. Though sometimes it's just the best, but we're really It's a two parter it's a two be continued, so we're kind of one episode yeah, right, and I can't wait for you all to see it. I mean I can't. Yeah, there's stuff that you're just gonna be it's next week. Yeah, and you're gonna be like, oh, I didn't think that was gonna happen, Like I can't wait. Well, this series is kind of in the in its own evolution. It's self referential. Now, you know, it has these branch points that make you want to explore other franchises. But this makes me want to revisit all of Lower Dex all over again to see some of the nuances that I was missing and getting into this, yeah exactly. We've noticed that fans who maybe didn't love season one when they go back with like their season two, three and four goggles on, are starting to love it again because I love I have a special I didn't work on season one. It's the only one I missed because at the time I had finished up on Solar Opposites. And this was back when it was the good times when you could like get a job on Twitter and like I got a job on Apple and ongin on Twitter from dming that showrunner and I hadn't. I didn't know anything about it was still code named California Class. I just like didn't know about it. And my friend Marisa Livingston, who's our lead character designer, was doing designs for it at

50:27 the time, and so I missed out on season one, but I didn't know that I missed out yet. So then we came back, you know, Pandemic Hits, and we came back for I came back for Solar Opposites for season two. We're all worked from home and everything, and I don't remember how it happened exactly now that I think about it, but somebody was like, oh, why don't you Like I was like looking for something to be in between the seasons, you know, Solar Opposites was ending, and I think it was probably maybe through Marisa or somebody was like, oh, I'll put your name in. And I did that interview and came on board for season two for Star Trek, and you know, you go back and you watch that first season and I just I loved it so much, and I just like, and I read a lot of like not great stuff about that first and I'm like, but it's so good and it's all there, but you just didn't know, you want, Like, I think a lot of people just weren't ready or didn't know that they were gonna love it.

51:19 So I really hope people go back and revisit and revisit that pilot, because that that pilot episode of Lower Decks might be one of the greatest animated pilots of all time. Like it's got everything, It's got space flu right, it's got set up the Mariner Boimler thing perfectly, Like it's all there. All the characters are there, like ten D Rutherford, like who they are is like all kind of set up in the and it's an amazing first episode. And I'm like, really sad I didn't get to work on that first season because it's and maybe that's why I also have a little bit of like it's special to me because I'm like, well, that's the one you missed that it's the one that got away. Yep. But look where you're at now. Yeah, Yeah, it's great, it's it's worked out amazing.

52:00 Well, we hope we see you for many more seasons. I would say, as long as as long as your crew is willing to do it, we're invested. Oh yeah, I mean we're willing, we're hoping to do more. I would really like to do at the very least seven and a movie would be awesome. Can you imagine what we would do with an actual movie and not just a movie episode? Gosh yeah, yeah, so that would be nine is kind of our movie episode, right, Like it's not you know, like in the other seasons they were literally doing you know, they would do the Holidack movies. This one they're like, well, let's just do a movie in the show, which is great. So like, can you just imagine like the fun we could have with a with a full on, oh you know movie and you know it's funny too. I had a fan I was like, you know, messaging at me and like they're like, yeah, I would love to see that in theaters. And I didn't even I was like, oh, I was thinking it would be on like Paramount plus if we did a movie. I never even considered that it might be in theaters and that would be even cool. Oh yeah, Brandon, would you direct it? I would love to, but I imagine Barry would direct. He's the man. He can do it all. He's amazing, He's like our you know, when it comes to the visual wrangling of the show, like he's our he's our he's our captain for sure, our admiral. I guess we've tried to do this. We've tried to figure out like the metaphor, like what our episodes they're like missions and the teams are ships and the directors are captains of the ships. Right, so then I

53:31 and my my number one is the A D and then like we have our team. We we've tried different versions of this metaphorm. It's like, well, who's Michael is he? Is he control? Or is he like is he president of the Federal You know, we've tried to do it, and it gets messy once you get beyond like you know, but Barry's definitely are an admiral. I think a good admiral a good star for the admiral. But there's a few usually, I know, an admiral shows up, you're like, oh gosh, you know, yeah, well you've got a very good crew, so there's no doubt about that. And hopefully you guys keep everybody together and we get some more seasons because we really really want it in a movie, absolutely and it'd be great. Yeah, and then you know, the best way to watch it, and you guys are watching it for sure, so yeah, you know, I'm messaging all my friends. Have you watched it yet? I haven't watched it yet, Like this is a really good time to watch, Like this week and next week are a really good time. You know, if you're listening to this, and if you're listening to this, you've probably watched it. But if you have friends who haven't watched it yet, like this is a good time because this is like when they're looking at you know, the studio and whatnot, is like kind of looking at the success and everything, and when the episodes are coming out, it's when there's a lot of the energy is around it because you can see it because I'm sure that they have, you know, I'm sure they have. They're looking at the numbers and they're seeing people go back and like rewatch, Like I'm sure the I'm sure the the however it's represented, you know, I like to imagine it's a big, a big like graph with like numbers and stuff and like lights, and I'm sure they're like, oh,

55:06 when the new episode comes out, look at that. There goes the other seasons. You know. I like to imagine that but I think this is a really good time to like try and bring that energy in, especially with the awesome the weekly release, which is so great because you all get to have these podcasts. Yeah, you know, and there's an other podcasts that can kind of talk and we can build that energy each week rather than it's all out at once. They're talking about something that's over, you know, So we've got next week coming up. So you've got a friend who hasn't watched it yet, this is a time to catch up. Yeah, absolutely, I like I like the one a week. It's like that water cooler thing too, you know. Yeah, absolutely, And then I like to go back and binge it. Yeah, it's because you can get You can binge this series so fast because you will get sucked in. It's just so rewatchable and I love to go And then what will happen is I'll go back and rewatch all of season four because it's different when you watch it on the app, right, or if I also get the blue right, is I like have to have it like you know, but it's different, you know, you know, you see the screeners at work and all that stuff, and you and I've seen it a million times going through, but there's just something different about the final thing that goes out to broadcast. So what will happen is I'll go back and rewatch all of season four and then be I should probably just go back to season Yeah, and it doesn't take long.

56:22 Honestly, there's not you know, it's what it'll be forty episodes at this point. Yeah, wow, So well yeah, forty twenty twos and you can just you can blast through them though. They're so fun, they're so rewatchable. Yes, well, I love the fact that they have the the ready Room segments. They give you a little bit more to go into. You can let's you know, talk, listen to the voice talent and everybody, all the creators give their perspective on things. It's it's a great way to kind of dive in and get more depth. How do I get on one of those? Right? Like keep the animators in their hole. They're like like, hey, can I get on it? It's like chink to your desk. You need to be drawing this, ye for you, Brandon? Are there any other projects you want to talk about? Anything else you have in the works. Oh, I always have a lot of you know, there's always things happening in the background. I think right now, I'm mostly you know, full steam on lower decks. We're in the thick of it. Of course, Like many I have the dream, of course of having my own show, and you know, I want to get back into ching and trying. That's the only thing that would get me off lower decks, honestly, Like I'm like, so Currito's strong, you know, to the end, the only thing that whatever is Like if I somehow managed to trick them into making my own show, that would be the only thing.

57:47 But other than that, you know, I'm just like, we don't waiting to hear about solar hopefully more solar opposites. And then I teach on the side. I'll tach for College for Creative Studies in Detroit, which is school I went to have a little story boarding class, and it's it's very rewarding to kind of like I it. It definitely is giving back because let me tell you, adjuncts are not compensated in a way that I think is appropriate for guiding the future. But to me, it's it's just I hadn't I had a key experience in college. You know, it's in Detroit, you know, at the time, like there was it felt like there's this bubble around La where it was like the animation industry is this other world and unless you go to cal Arts or Arts Center, like you have to sort of find your own little way in. And I think that's still true to this day. And I used to tell people that, like, yeah, once you find your little hole, it closes behind you, because everyone's little way in is a little different. And that's not like it's not you closing it behind it. It just like everyone's all opportunity is different. But I had one semester when John Travick, who's the creator of Middlemost Posts for Nickelodeon and at the time he was a storyboard artist for SpongeBob. He came back and he was doing the remote thing, you know, way before we were all doing zoom and stuff. But he came back to Michigan and to try it out, and he was like, oh, I'll teach first semester while I'm working on SpongeBob. And we had a flash animation class and he's like, I'm like, wait, you're storyboard artist on SpongeBob. Was like,

59:20 we're doing storyboards. I'm not doing this nonsense. We're doing storybars because that's what I want to get into. And he's like, oh, we should really be doing it. I was like, I was like, all right, then I'll do double assignments for this whole and he like that. One semester, he gave me a lot of the tools because I would say, it's like storyboardings like seventy percent, it's like these certain things you just have to know, like how to set up shots, how to do it, and then it's thirty percent like what you bring your vision, your voice, your personality. And what he did for me was he filled that seventy percent. He gave me the like this is what you need to know, this is what a storyboard needs to look like, this is how you think about it. So that I was able to focus on that thirty percent and it changed my life, Like one semester. I went from being like this is going to be I don't know if I can do this, Like I don't know if I'm going to have what it takes to make it out, you know, in the jungle, And he changed that in one semester. And I just want to give back and do that for my students nice and they you know, unfortunately, because I'm on LA time, so these poor students have to come in on a Saturday at like because it's like eleven am for me because I was like, I can't get it's my Saturday. But they do it, and I think it brings a certain dedication and they're all kind of looking for that as well. They want that like industry knowledge and experience, and so yeah, that's like the you know, a big part of doing to give back, and I just want to give somebody that experience and help them and who knows, you know, one of these young kids might be the next you know, showrunner and then I'll be working for them,

1:00:52 you know, season seven when you're trying to figure out how to put that poker game into it right, you know. But other than that, you can you can find me at stupid art Punk is my handle for like everything, no Twitter and Blue Sky and Instagram. Stupid art Punk is like where you'll find me. Fantastic cool. Yeah, So I've always got a lot of things in the works, but like right now, it's all if you go to my timeline, it's all lower decks right now. Because I'm super excited and super proud of this plenty to be prendant. This has been. It has been fantastic. Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time. Brandon. If you're available, we would love to have you back for a future discussion. I know that, I know we're going to talk about the next season of Lower Decks and it's happening. It will play more Trek to talk about, so we'll have a whole episode about pink ling on blood. So cool. I didn't I wasn't sure how far they were gonna because we did a lot in the board, but you know, you never know like how far they're going to take that, and they did so much blood we should have done an even closer shot and like really nice. Yeah, it's awesome. And you got to see the T shirt? Do you guys see the T shirts? The Ti Mouse T shirts for the Lower Decks where they do the T shirt club. Okay, so everyone, now I'm gonna get you all hip to this. So Tim Mouse has this T shirt club. Will they do one T shirt for every episode, and like the T shirts are themed, so like if you go onto the store, you can buy them individually as well. So they have a nice starbas eighty T shirt which is amazing. They have one of my favorite one is the citation

1:02:28 Ops one. It's like this nice sea foam Yes, yeah, I won shirt. I might have to buy another one because I wear it out. They have a great DS nine one. But the T shirt for this episode, Barry did the drawing and it's like a Mariner with Mock in the background when he's and he's got the like hood the sky's on and it's like, it's really awesome. And she's got like phaser in there in the cave bubble. So like that T shirt looks awesome. I'm very excited to get it. But yeah, at the b n of each season, Tim Mouse has this club. You can sign up and you get like a little discount and then there's you get eleven shirts, so there's a bonus. You get one shirt that's themed after every episode. It's like the first one is Justice for two Vicks across the UH Voyager and then Moopsie. Right. Yeah, so there's a bunch of these awesome themed and you know, different designers get to do it. Some of them are Berry, some of them are like the like Robbie Cook, one of our designers. One they're really awesome. So that's also a great way to support the show. Yeah, and you get a cool T shirt. They're they're incredible. So they got the whole store tit mouse store for lower decks. Yes, I'm getting some shirts, aren't I. I've got thirty of them because I missed season one, right, because they give us a little little discount right to get all of them.

1:03:51 So it'll be forty when the season five one comes. So we'll be very surprised that the next one doesn't have a culvered starburst on it. Way, we'll see, you know what, I because I don't know, So I'm always a little bit like, what's the next T shirt? I like to look like what part of the episode did they key in on? Right, Like there's a Quarks T shirt that has like the Federation experience one that's really cool. I think Lancelot's on the four oh three shirt. They're great. Yeah, So there's like a if there's a part of the show that you're really excited about, I'm I guarantee you it's gonna end up on one of these T shirts. Nice. I do love that it's it's like a gross mustard yellow like it's it's everything you would imagine Starbars eighty to be I've got like the older logo on it, it says star bas eighty. It's great.

1:04:42 Well, Brady, thank you so much. Man, it's been an absolute honor pleasure to talk to you about Lower Decks, about this episode. You've done an incredible job. Everybody had done an incredible job, and we cannot wait to see what the future holds. Oh yeah, yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me on and letting me talk about cartoons and all my which our cinema, but our cartoons and are fun and just thanks for letting me come on and indulge. Absolutely, yeah, this has been an absolute pleasure and listeners, we always appreciate you joining us for another mission. As always, healing frequencies are always open, so feel free to share your thoughts, your predictions, your questions, especially about t shirts that I'm going to have to go ahead and grab a whole different on social media. If you'll mark trek certainly let us know. You can find us at a film by podcast dot com, a film by podcast at gmail dot com, on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Tune in next week and we'll see you for the next mission. Thanks, thank you,