George A. Romero - Monkey Shines

0:00 So it's helping hands in Monkey College. Two nonprofit organizations that actually train monkeys to assist people with disabilities. This is a real thing. It's a real thing. Yeah, these are these are actual places. And you know, because there's all types of service animals, but predominantly it's it's dogs. But these two places actually train monkeys to be service animals. Now interesting. I want you to I want you to think about think about this. These monkeys because they're known for you know, uh, Capuchin monkeys specifically are known for their intelligence and their ability to use tools. Here's what they train them to do, Dave.

0:45 They can fetch objects, they can turn switches, they can open bottles, open drawers and doors. They can reposition a heavy human limb. They can insert straws. Here's and here's the one we like. They can operate CDs and DVDs and blue roars. They can turn pages of a book, and they can they can offer a drink. Now, I don't know if that means they're they're buying you a drink, they're making you a drink, but you know you're getting a drinks one way or the other. It sounds like I need one of these around my house. I was thinking about that. But here's here's the thing. Here's what I need. Here's what I need the service monkey to do. I need to make sure that they keep my Blu Ray collection in alphabetic order. That's that's a challenge. That's that's that's the deal breaker. If you can't do it, I don't. I don't want the monkey.

1:37 But you know, the thing is, though the ADA does not recognize monkeys as service animals. At one time, I think they did, but they it's it's no longer a practice because these things can well they can be very dangerous when when provoked, and they're known to bite, and they're known to spread disease. So, oh crap, Okay, never mind that. Listen. I want my extensive Blue Rey collection alphaetized, but I might have to just do the work myself. We don't need to go to that extensive. Good Thanks. Thanks. Speaking of capuchin monkeys, let's talk about a film by George A. Romero, his nineteen eighty eight underrated psychological horror film Monkey Shines. Hello and welcome back. I'm Jeff Johnson.

3:00 I'm David Burns, and this is a film by podcast so Dave. Just a few days ago, the Monkey hit theaters. Ye didn't we see the trailer for this when we went last August to see Last Voyage of the Demeter. We sure did, and we were very interested. Then when we saw that trailer, we. Were very excited. I looked at us and hey, we're totally doing Monkey Shines since they're remaking it. Up until just now we were like, wait, this is this is not a remake. A remake, it's you know, it's a you know, you. Just assume like you see a creepy little monkey and you know. But no. But nevertheless, we decided we're still going to talk about Monkey Shines because we haven't. We haven't talked about Romero. I mean, you guys were Scott, Yeah, you and Scott on our limited series of film at forty five, talked about Romero with Dawn of the Dead yep, when you did seven. But we haven't covered him on a film.

4:02 Buy so, and he just celebrated a birthday too. Yeah, his birthday posthumously what the fourth I believe, Yeah, I think he would have been eighty five. I think I believe he would have been He is fast. Yeah, Well, I mean he lived, he lived a great life. So he did and gave us a lot of wonderful things. Yeah. Absolutely, speaking of giving a lot of wonderful things. A reminder to all of those interested in joining our patreon, if you have questions about joining our patreon, we are still It's February, so we are still giving everyone the option. If you sign up for as little as three dollars in the month of February, you can put us to work on the episode of your choosing. If you got a favorite director, you got a favorite movie. We have done this, David. We've we've done this several times now.

4:55 We've had We've had a lot of people join the Patreon being like, hey can you talk about this guy? Or hey, can you talk about this movie? It's one of my favorites and we've been doing it. So we found some gyms because of that. Oh absolutely we have. So head to patreon dot com slash a film by podcast and check out all the exclusive episodes we have available. Back to Romero, Dave. That's right, the Godfather of the Dead. The man that made zombies a thing. How about some how about a couple of facts in a quote? Sure, let's hear it. So George A. Romero began his career as an industrial filmmaker, directing commercials, promotional featurettes, and industrial training films, and most notably, he shot short films that were used on mister rogers neighborhood in nineteen sixty eight.

5:49 That's right. I want you to think about this, young Georgi Romerow in nineteen sixty eight is shooting things that mister Rogers is going to promote on his show, and he's creating Night of the Living Dead in the same year. I like it. Wow, Yeah, talk about opposite ends of the spectrum. That's right, I love it. Discussing his influences, he once said that the universal horror classics made a strong impression on him, but his favorite horror film was nineteen fifty one's The Thing from Another World? Interesting? Yeah, Why is that interesting? Dave? We just had a conversation with Docking based seventy seven Dayton about that, talking about that movie versus The Thing from nineteen eighty.

6:35 Two that listeners If you have not listened to that episode yet, that was an absolute blast me, David Dayton, you know, sizing up fifty one's The Thing from Another World against eighty two's The Thing. Yep, I had, I had, I had such a fun time on that one. I loved it too. Yeah, one of my favorite times. Yeah. Sadly. On July sixteenth, twenty seventeen, George Romero passed away peacefully in his sleep. Dave hugely. He was it was a loss, but uh, I do appreciate the fact that it was peaceful for him. He was listening to the score of The Quiet Man, which was among his all time favorite films.

7:17 Nice. Hundreds of years from now, when when Wayne leaves this earth, I wonder what film score he'll he'll he'll put on on the you know, to listen to. That's a good question, you. Hey, yeah, it has to be Goldsmith. We'll find out way. Wayne's like a cyborg though, he's like data. He's We have a lot we have. We have decades left with Wayne, So don't don't worry, listeners. We got plenty of Wayne plenty. Uh. And I know we, I know, we we pick on these these particular people, uh from time to time. But uh, George. Dealing with the studios, George said, quote, I'll never get sick of zombies. I just get sick of producers. They're not all bad. We know that we know, yes, we know, we know. But Dave George A Romero, he is, he's the godfather of the zombie film. Is he's most synonymous with that that sub genre a horror Yep, and we've got something different here. This is Monkey Shines. This is a psychological horror film. There are no zombies, no, but there's something else lurking in the shadows. You want to give us a little synopsis about Monkey Shines?

8:40 Yeah? Absolutely. A man trapped within his own body an animal train to read and carry out faults, one with a mind for revenge, the other with an instinct for carrying out that revenge. Alan Mann a very proud athlete in law student who seems to have it all. That isn't until a freak accident paralyzes him, changing everything he knew forever. Every day, normal things become impossible for him. That is when his friend Jeffrey, who has been testing monkeys, provides him with an animal of his own to help him out. Alan and the monkey Ella become very close, even to the point a bond that telepathically connects them together, which the monkey uses to carry out evil thoughts that quickly gets out of control. This is Romero's first studio film. But it's a note that after O Ryan Pictures recut the film against his wishes, he went straight back to independent filmmaking.

9:30 So I don't blame him. I don't. I mean, he would he would return years later. I think ninety three he came back. Ironically it was Ryan again. But it's uh, that's true. That's true. Yeah, mess around with great directors. And like what happens there you go. Executive producer Gerald Ponessa stated that Romero was chosen for this project because of his quote, wonderful, dark sense of humor. Mm hmm. I get that because the zombie films at their core, their satire, they are. I mean, I mean and they always have like that, that message, that underlying message to him, especially Dona.

10:12 The Dead, Donava Dead specific consume. Yeah, yes, and I mean you got to think even the famous they're coming to get to you, Barbara. So I mean yeah, I mean that's the way George Ramro was, and that's why we loved him so much, just because the way he was able to bring those things to his projects. Yeah. Uh, you know, I'm gonna be firm but fair. Mm hmm. There's there's one scene in particular, and uh, there's a couple of things I do want to ask you, because you know you are you are the director. Uh that that's typically on this show. But right from the get go the accident, I kind of feel like we could have it could have been shot a little bit better. You know, you talked about, you know, our our main character Alan, he's this athlete, he's a he's in law school.

10:57 M hm, he's he's, you know, doing his morning nude yoga and then he goes out for a run and he's got his Nike track suit on. Dog kind of spooks him and he wanders out into the road and gets just smacked hard by a pickup truck and. The worst shot probably possible of him ying through the air. Come on. That looks to Georgim, Yeah, I know. I mean, look, we're gonna we're gonna call it like we see it. The problem is it's a slow motion. Okay, you just see like a slow motion close up of the front of the truck, and then you see a slow motion of Alan who's doing this. It almost looks like an Olympic like a.

11:42 I don't know, it looks like a trampoline it's what it looks. Yeah, yeah, he's doing and he's like he's kind of spinning around very gracefully. It does not look like Havoc has just been wrecked. You know, It's like it wasn't scary. I am I being fair? Am I being over? You were being very fair? And okay again, I had not seen this in a really long time. So when I'm watching this opening and I'm listening to the score here, I'm like, this really feels like a lifetime TV movie. It did first with that with that that that music, with with the way it opens, and then this this accident that happens. That's just it kind of almost pulls you out of the film a little bit.

12:25 You know you mentioned the music. Now listen, uh at this point in the movie, the music is a little very horror like it is not. Yeah, I mean it gets better. But I called I called up our buddy Wayne say if he wanted to do a scoring session for David Schier, the composer. His response was, who like, all right, all right, Well He's like, I'm not familiar with that guy. It's like, okay, Wayne, we'll get you next time. Yeah. I just I just feel like the the scene. You don't have to show us the accident, but it could have been so much better because have been more traumatic. Like think about think about pet Cemetery at the beginning. Of that movie, when.

13:06 Pascal or whatever the thing that Victor Pascal, he gets hit. We don't necessarily see it. It's just but it's yes, it's the sound. I didn't use a lifetime movie sound like here. Yeah. So, I mean one of the things is audio is so important. You know, your your audience can forgive you for video mistakes, but your audio is very, very important. If they would have used a little bit different audio sounds here, it might be different. We might be talking a little bit differently about this scene. Yeah, well, I'll tell you. Let's uh, I do want to talk about this cast because we've got some uh, some pretty big names in this cast. But let's take a quick break before we do that. Welcome back. We are talking about George A. Romero's Monkey Shines. Help me out here, Dave, is it Jason the gay bigay, big big.

14:02 Big something like that. Yeah, I I feel terrible because I'm I'm I know, I'm butchering it. He's playing our lead Alan Mann. I gotta I gotta tell you, Like I I see him and I immediately think of him as Demi Moore's husband or boyfriend and g Jane, that's what I was remembering from that Monkey Shines. Dude, is it? He's just ripped man. He is phenomenal shape. He is I will say Dave as someone that that maintains a nice beard. Can we just say his beard is bullshit? Come on, yes it is.

14:43 It looks awful. Come on, now I'm nitpicking again. We just we just nitpicked a scene, the Hope opening scene. But you know, he's he's clean shaven, and then you know, he goes through surgery, he's paralyzed as quadriplegic, and we kind of get that transition of he's been in the hospital for a while, so you know he grew beard. But this is the most amazing beard of all time. It's majestic. You know, it's blonde, flowing locks. I'm like that, you don't grow beard like that. It's just and it bothers me because like, again, he probably give him some time that you know, Jason probably could have grown, you know, enough of a beard. It's not like he has to look like MacCready and the thing. You just give him some scruff, you know, let him, let him grow it.

15:30 Like this, we don't even cast away beard, but it still. Well, it just he just looks regal, you know, and you don't like in closer shots like I almost feel like if I if I had a four K version of this, I could see the spirit gum. That's all. I'm glad. I'm glad that it's gone. I'm glad that it's shaved, you know, before too long. But but what do you think about this guy's performance, because like he's doing something that I have to believe is very difficult for an actor when when you are a physic specimen and then you're playing a character that can't move from the neck. Down right, I can't imagine being able to pull that off. And he does extremely well. He does the discipline that it takes not to make movements.

16:15 I think he does a sensational job. He does, especially like the whole fight sequence there at the end, you know, the finale, all of that stuff. The way he pulls all that off, I mean, he had to obviously make sure he wasn't moving any part of his body. I mean, think about it. You have the tendency. You want to move your hands or your arms, or your shoulder or anything. He doesn't move anything, dude. Well, I mean there's scenes where he's got this little monkey climbing all over him. The control it needs, he needs, just make any movements. And then how about when I don't know what they did or how they did it, but the scene with Bogie, the little parakeet that's on his face. Oh yeah, he's snapping at his eyes.

16:56 Yeah, Like, dude, that had to be a real bird. This is nineteen eighty eight, right, I mean you can't. I know Tom Savini's involved in this in this movie, yep, but that bird had to be a real bird, And to let one land on your nose and just sit there and pick around by your cheeks and your eyeball like, no chance, man, I couldn't do it. Huh huh. I couldn't either. No way. I'm not afraid a bird. But when you're near your eyes, no, thank you'll. Yeah, no, I can't do it. John Pancal as his buddy Jeff Fisher, has an extensive background on stage and in television. Dave. In nineteen eighty two, he replaced Tim Curry in the lead role of Wolfgang Amadas Mozart and the Broadway production of Amadas. But I gotta tell you, I will always remember him as Michael J. Fox's mailrom buddy in the Secret of My Success. It's just too much fun.

17:52 Yeah, but again, he's a great job in this room. Yeah, let's talk about him for a minute. Do you get you know, I I've seen this movie a bunch of times, and it's been a while since I've seen it. But do you get a little bit of a Frankenstein vibe? You do? His character absolutely? But I mean the first the first scene, he's coming into the lab with the monkeys, and he's got a human brain, a frozen human brain that he's like, he's like carving off pieces. He's got this mad scientist plan where he's he's injecting like liquid human brain into monkeys to increase their intelligence. I guess, yeah, no good would ever come of that. You you know, of course, you've done how many Plan of the Apes films do we need to see to know? Just leave the monkeys alone, you know, let.

18:39 Them be and don't mess with the dead. Come on, man, we know this by now. Right, Oh well, think about it, Okay, and his the serum. M that it's that that neon green. Yeah. I've seen Reanimator enough times to know that anytime that a scientist has like a neon colored serum that's experimental, it will not end well. It will not in will, will not in will no matter what. Yeah, man, no I do I do like this guy. Uh, I'll tell you what. I could not get away from his theory the whole time I'm watching it because he's taking you know, some other he's taken some other drug that he's concocting in the lab where he stays awake for three days at a time, and you know, Alan's like, you know, that's not good for you, and he's like, no, no, no.

19:26 You know he comes up that theory where you know, every three days he's gaining another a full twenty four hour day, which means he will you know, if he dies at fifty, he he got an extra twelve years of life. Yeah, something like that. Like, oh, I guess there is some kind of lotgy behind that. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like still, I mean, he's insane, but but that's he makes a good point, like maybe maybe start pulling a couple of all nighters and I get, I get bonus. Life, have bonus life. I don't know if it's worth it. This well, I mean, he probably not because he looked he kind of looked like shit, you know, he's got the bags under his eyes and that five, that perpetual five o'clock shadow. Yeah, no, thanks, no, thank you, no, thank you. I I'll tell you. Yeah, oh god. We'll get to him in a second. But let's talk about Kate McNeil as Melanie Parker. So yeah, yeah, soap actress from As the World Turns. You know, if our friend of Menagiantic, who is an expert on the slasher genre of horror, if she were here, she'd probably tell us about Kate McNeil's leading role in nineteen eighty two's The House on Sorority Row.

20:37 Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, I completely forgot that she was in that. Me too. But aside from that, that monkey shines, I don't know where she went. I don't know what, you know. And again, I think she's really good in this. She's very good. Yeah. I like what she does and what she brings to the film. And it's just like it's a shame that we didn't see more of her in other films. You know. Yeah, I think a lot of times horror films, action films, they have a tendency to give us an absurdly attractive woman who just happens to be like a rocket scientist or whatever. And I'm not saying that that that can't be a you know, obviously that can be the case. But what I think Kate McNeil does really well is I believe her intelligence, I believe her character.

21:22 I believe her composure, her strength, the way she handles herself. Absolutely, she's one of she's one of the better characters, one of the better written characters in the film. M hm. And I really I really enjoy her even even like and I know we'll get into this probably a couple of minutes, but even the chemistry she has with Alan, I totally bought it. I'm totally I believe you know that it's she's just legitimately into the guy and not pitying him and not being opportunistic about it. She's just she she's just into the guy. Well, that's what I love about her character is the fact that you know, she's training these monkeys and it's her passion that what she wants to do, and she you know, she takes that to help people, but the person she's helping she falls in love with. I totally bought that and believed it that that I you know, that really could have happened in real life. Yeah, that kind of situation, and I'm sure it has. Well.

22:20 Okay, so let's talk about there's there's two There's two characters in this movie that I'm gonna question as far as like how necessary they were? The first one and one of them I hope, Uh well, we'll get to her in a second. Okay, truthfully, I mean, I look, I get it's Jendine Turner, but I mean I didn't have her in my notes because it's blink and you miss her kind of a moment exactly. But I'm talking about Joyce Van Patten playing Dorothy Alan's overbearing mother. First off, great performance. Oh yeah, although listen, could you imagine talking to your mom or could you imagine me talking to my mom the what he does to his mom?

23:01 No, because I couldn't do that. There's no way, Dave. If I heard you talk about that to your mom, I slap the taste out of your mouth, and vice versa. Jeff. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I get it. She she's very overbearing. She's very intrusive. You know, she shows up after his accident and she just wants to coddle him and bathe him and bathe him, and and I get it. You know, you're grown men. You don't want your mom bathing you. You know, wasn't she even told that, like, you know, you're probably the problem. You need to leave. Yeah, yeah, doctor. The doctor says, look, you're you're exacerbating the situation. You're making this worse. And she's like, I can't believe you'd say that, But and I get it, Like I know that we we need her character because anytime you're dealing with the horror film, you have to have a little bit of cannon fodder, right, you do.

23:50 We gotta we gotta have we have to have a couple of bodies stack up when there's a horror movie, and you know, so you need some side characters. She does get a pretty grizzly demise, you know, blow dryer in the in the bathtub. That's a couple of times, and they turned the electric back on. I will forgive Romero for the the the accident at the beginning because I love that she you know, she get we get the jolt power goes out, and then when the hey, the let's when we flip we fix the breaker, she just starts going. She gets reanimated like a zombie go figure and has a couple more a jolts in her. That was kind of cool. I did think that was kind of cool. But I don't know what how how important to the story do you think Dorothy was?

24:41 So I think somebody else could have been in her role and we would have been okay with not having her. The only thing that I think having her there was that emotional connection for Allen, where you know, Melanie is gonna be that emotional connection, but you need somebody that he's related to his mother who leads us into that final fight that we get. So it's true. I feel she was a necessity at that point when she did show back up, though, I'm like, God, I kind of rolled my eyes seeing her again, you know, because I just I wasn't fond of her character, but I understand I think why her character was there. I didn't get that one, all right.

25:22 Moving on, uh, Doctor John Wiseman played by a very young, very very young Yeah, very young, very fit. Uh Stanley Tucci. Mm hmm, Dave. Everybody loves when Stanley Tucci shows up in a movie, but here he's playing a real slam ball. He is a very slain ball in this movie. Dude, come odd, really you're going let's talk about a doctor that overlooks a major concern with your surgery. Yeah, and steals your girlfriend at the same time. What the hell? Man? Yeah, I hadn't seen this in so long. And when they're all meeting at Allan's for like the welcome home party, and he gives he kind of gives a side glance to Jeanine Turner. Yeah, you know, the Allen's girlfriend, Linda.

26:08 I'm like, dude, what I never noticed that before. I didn't either, Stanley tu I're a nice guy. What are you doing? Yeah? But the fact to the dude's not even back home yet from the hospital. She's already like grabbing her stuff to get the hell out of there. Oh yeah, how shallow. That is no thing. You know. They got what they deserved, they did. Stanley Tucci though this, I would say this is his first prominent role in a film, because before this, he he played soldier in nineteen eighty five, it's Pritzy's honor. He was second dock worker in ninety a seven's Who's that Girl? That's like, yeah, that was his role. And I'd be remiss if I didn't remind some of our listeners that he also played two different characters across three episodes of Miami Vice.

26:57 Ah he did, You're right? Yeah, so yeah, he I think I think season three he had like a one off episode where he played someone, and then season four they brought him back and he was a different guy, but he had like a two part episode. So yep, Miami Vice. We love it. Yes, we do. A lot of famous people came from that show. Yeah, tell me, tell me about uh, tell me about Jeffrey's boss. Go to old mister Stephen Root, who plays uh Burbage Barbage. This guy is a jerk in this movie. Okay, this is the boss that nobody wants. Okay, nobody wants. Yeah, Okay, here's the thing. So this is kind of cool because like Stephen Root's always one of those guys.

27:38 I think it's safe to say that he he probably becomes a household name with Office Space playing Milton. Oh yeah, of course, you know, you know, goes on to you know, Dodgeball and Underdog Store. He becomes Stephen Root and then he's doing all this fun stuff. Right. He's had some pretty cool roles, but this year I've always wondered, like, what where did he get his start? And Dave, it's nineteen eight when he gets a start it is. This is his film debut, his theatrical film debut, nineteen eighty eight. He's in Monkey Shines. He's also in Crocodile Dundee two, but he shot this one first. Crocodile Dunde two came out like a month before this one, but he did film this one first, So this one gets gets the honors of it.

28:18 Gets the credit. It's great, it. Gets it gets credit. Yeah, I love Stephen Ruth though I do too. And also for you Phaser set the stun fans out there. Stephen Root was in two different Star Treks. He was in just this season's Lower Decks as Gene Jakobowski and he was also in Star Trek the Next Generation as Captain Cavada. There's that connection to Star Trek again. Man, it is everywhere and I love it. You and Scott never never miss a moment to tie this back to Phaser set the stun. That's right, Who knows, maybe season or two from now, it'll be like the Phasers that the Sun showed film by a little limited serious.

29:00 One never knows. Jeff. Let's let's let's keep Jeff around. You give him his own little serious. He could talk about movies, Dave, Can you tell everybody about Nurse. Hodges played by Christine Forrest. Yes, Mary Ann Hodges, who I did not like in this film at all. You better not. Oh my god, she just got under my skin. Dude, over the top acting. Yes, you know what a bitch character? Correct, Absolutely the character she's playing. And that damn bird.

29:41 It got on my nerves that with me in my house. Get that thing out of here. I love when Mom shows up and she's like, oh are you Are you his nurse? And she's like, God has given me the burden. I'm like, you're you're being paid right, You're yeah, you're hired to do this job. It is a job. You're hired to do the job. But yeah, she's terrible, man, Yes, but she has one of the I don't think there's really many scenes that are that are written comedically, but I can't help but crack up when she has her meltdown moment. You know, you killed my bogey. She's got that that stupid little parakeet named Humphrey Bogart.

30:25 I think she gets called nurse Ratchet at one point, doesn't Yeah, yeah. But man, like I think it's cool because, like you know, you talked about like the psychological, like the the mind mild if I can use the Star Trek reference that's going on between the monkey and Alan. This is like his first chance, Like this is the first time he gets a little nasty because he's like, who gives a shit? I deserved to die? And he says it like a like. A serial killer, right, I know, like whoa man? Yeah. The mom's like, uh, you're mistaken, lady. Alan obviously could not have killed a bird. And she's like that little demon monkey he made it dear. It was like it's just crazy, I know. But there's another kill that was like, oh was she left right? Yeah?

31:08 Yeah, well she she ends up believing. But before she leaves our conversation, though, you want to you want a little fun fact about Christine Forest, Sure, what is it? She was married to George Romero at the time of this this picture. Really Yeah his second wife. She was married to Married to the Man from nineteen eighty one to twenty ten. Wow Yeah often Yeah often had small roles in his film She served as his assistant on Monkey Shines and Creep Show and talk about really getting your money's worth out of someone. In Dawn of the Dead, she plays a TV producer, a biker chick. She dan provides yeah and provides the voice for the mole announcements that you hear over her. Yeah, that's right.

31:50 That's a hard working woman, right. Yeah, Hey, why not? Yeah, let's talk about one last one, last lady. Uh, maybe the hardest worker on set. Let's talk about bool? Right? Yeah, man, is this the most adorable little monkey you've ever seen in your entire life? It really is. And you feel for it, uh for sure, especially when it's getting the needles put in it at first, you know, I mean, you're you're feel just sorry for the thing when it's just shying away as it's getting the shots, and it's just you just wanted to be. The one thing that I'll give to the credit of Jeff is the fact that he didn't want to torture animals whereas his boss was a different story.

32:35 Stephen Root was more of a sadist exactly. But yeah, I mean I totally felt for the monkey here, and I liked, I appreciate the fact that like it got out to become you know, his Jeff's friends animal to help him a purpose, you know. But yeah, no, absolutely that monkey was put to work for sure in this entire film and did a fantastic job. I'm sure that had to be As a director, I can not imagine going through take after take a taked until that monkey to get on its mark. Can you imagine that? I mean, Romero did something he wouldn't he didn't normally do. He was shooting twelve hour days, right, and that's just because they had all these monkeys involved, and they you know, monkey, Monkey's gonna do what it's gonna do. It's you know, monkey see monkey do you know, Uh, it's not gonna hit mark every single time?

33:24 Right? So yeah, but man, this monkey it's unbelievab because I don't I don't talk. I'm not talking about like the amazing, the dramatic moments. I'm just talking about like watching this thing pick up a tape cassette and hit eject on a tape box, you know, except player and put the tape in and hit play the play its favorite song. Yep. It just blows my mind that these animals have that level of intelligence. Oh yeah, and you can do it. And the fact that you can train them to do those kind of things just blows my mind. Yeah, and do it well like they did. I know'm Savini had. They had some fake monkeys that they use for obviously the dangerous stuff.

34:06 Yes, well, let's let's get into that. Let's let's talk about the background. You know, let's talk about production a little bit, because they had multiple monkey doubles for Ella. But there were four puppets designed by Tom Savini and one of them was actually remote control, so it can it can move, you know, Savini's off off off camera and he can he can control it. Which, man, I tell you what, every time we do we do a film and Tom Savini's name pops up and it pops up a lot, Yeah, pops up a lot. I always I always think about, you know, when we met him, got to talk with him, and just I mean I'm just all struck. Like every time it's like, oh and oh, by the way, he created this and oh, by the way, he's responsible for this movie.

34:48 It's and to see how humble he is when you meet him. Yeah, with with his background and what he has given to Hollywood over the years is just amazing in itself. It really he's he's a guy that takes initiative. Like if you say, hey, I get let's get a photo together, he will take the phone out of your hand like he did you, like he did. He's he's gonna, he's gonna shoot, he's gonna he's gonna set. The stage right yep. So this was adapted from Michael Stewart's nineteen eighty three novel of the same name, not the Stephen King short story. Not Jeff, how long were we thinking, like, oh, yeah, Monkey Shines it is. You know, Stephen King wrote a short you know. No, this has nothing to do with the Stephen King book that Stephen King did do. He did write a short uh and the Monkey which we're uh, we're about to go check out here shortly that is based off the Stephen King short story. Yes, Michael Stewart, on the other hand, a British author, He's the one that's responsible for Monkey Shines. I did a little digging in this guy on this guy he is very much into science and technology and the advancement of civilization.

36:06 So it's kind of like Michael Crichton kind of. Kind of yeah, well, you know what he's been doing for the last twenty five years. What he's been he's been designing a what they're calling an air vehicle that can basically it doesn't need like a solid ground to land on. It's gonna fly, you know, using aerodynamics and propulsion and other stuff. It's gonna it'll move, but it can land wherever you needed to land. Interesting. Guy's very he's very high. He's he's he's a tech guy, big time. Clear occasionally just to size, I'm gonna write a book here and there, you know, do some TV.

36:46 But uh yeah, So once Romero was on board, story setting was changed from Oxford, England to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Of course, obviously, yeah, Romero sets. I don't think there's ever been a Georgia Merra film that wasn't set in Burg, Pennsylvania, not that. I can think of. There could be, but I'm not sure offhand. Hometown guy, he's always you know, he lives there, he wants to work there. And I don't blame him. I don't blame Hi either. You know, let's talk about studio interference, which happens more than it should with these big Holly films. So well, think about he's been you know, Romero his whole career. He's doing independent work, right, and then he gets so you know, O'Ryan puts seven million dollars in his hands. You're gonna that comes with the price tag. You you're gonna have to listen to the studio.

37:33 He's forced to change the darker novel accurate ending to a happy one. Mm hmm. Did you did you say about did you read about that this whole. Go ahead and tell us though I do know it, but go ahead. Yeah, So we we get the We get the ending where you know, Alan defeats Ella and he goes into surgery again and he walks at the end of the movie, he's walking happy ending, right, megatary thick happy ending. The book is more ominous. It's it's you know, he's still he survives, but he does not magically have a surgery where he's he's healed and he's a longer paraplegic. Yeah, and everything, and you're kind of left wondering if the the rage tendencies are still in him and will he will it connect to something else next?

38:24 But I would have liked that any better. To be honest, I. Would have too, and the studio Studio did not. George Romero. Uh. He gave an interview. He said, quote, I thought my ending played well, but I would admit that the testing results were overwhelmingly in favor of the current version. To Orion's credit, they said, it's up to you, we'll release it either way. So I decided to go along and not fight it. But I'll always miss it. Yeah. Romero has that vibe like any anytime you've seen him in in an interview, he seems like he kind of gets me, like a Sam Raimi vibe, where he's very polite, he's very articulate, and he'll he'll compromise if it means making someone happy.

39:11 Yeah, and I do get that to a certain extent. And going back to what you said, someone's handing you seventy million dollars, they're gonna tell you what to do, and you're gonna have to listen to him. Unfortunately, that's just that's just something you have to let go of as a director, it's gonna be hard to do it because and if if I was in that position, it would be hard for me to let that go. But I have to understand they're writing the paychecks. You know, today, I think we would have got that ending, Jeff, we would have oh got a darker ending. There's there's no doubt about it. The way things have changed. Well, well, it's a more cynical world now, right, It is absolutely for sure. The one thing that I am glad they kind of backed off of. Apparently the sexual scenes between Alan and Melanie were a lot more involved.

39:54 I put a pin in that I got that noteworthy scenes. U Okay, I I. Don't want to talk about that. I'll just say this, let's let's get to the scenes. But I will say the one thing you can't forgive o Ryan for is they show the film. You know, a couple of test audiences, get some poor reviews. They recut the entire movie behind Romero's back. That I think is a mistake. That's wrong, and that's why, you know, and then he's like, forget it. I'll just go back to make his zombie movies. So I would love to see Romero's cut. Oh Man, that would be great. Yeah, well, think about this.

40:36 It took him months to edit this because it's like they did like two hundred and forty pages. There's tons. Who knows if it's been preserved, if it's saved in a vault somewhere. But could you imagine if his son did like an assembly cut. Oh man, that would be wonderful, wouldn't it. I would love to see that, and it'd still be it'd be Romero. Yeah, it'd be Romero directing Romero, you know, or editing Romero. That'd that'd be so cool. Maybe that weird accident at the beginning at the studio's fault and not Romeros. I bet it is. It has to be right, you know what. I'm putting it on a Ryan Longer. I like it. They're no longer around. They can't, they can't fight back, they can't. Let's talk about a couple noteworthy scenes and maybe what the pivotal moment is. I typically don't do this, but I'm going to start off with the pivotal moment. Okay, in my opinion, I'll get wrong. I'll be wrong, all right.

41:31 So I want to talk about Alan and Jeff talking post accident, about Linda again played by a very young Jeanine Turner, and uh, they're talking about how Linda is going to leave him, and you know, Jeff, he's doing what a good buddy does. He's like, come on, man, she just needs time to you know, adjust and get used to things. And Alan's like, no, she's she's leaving me. And then he does what a good buddy does, you know. He says, you know, hey, she walks out, now fuck her. And the music there's a slight change in the music and Alan replies, I can't. And man, the defeat in his eyes as he accepts his situation is heartbreaking at that moment. And I and for me, I'm like this this last time watching, I was like, this is this is where the movie. This is the movie right here.

42:22 This is him coming to terms with the fact that he's never gonna be the track star. He's you know, the world that he knew is gone. Mm hmm, And I feel so sorry for the guy. Yeah. Mine, mine's kind of connected to that a little bit. Mine is more on the fact that when he gets the monkey Ella and decides that he wants to change his life around, he goes back to law school and starts becoming something different that he did not think was coming. That's mine. Okay, let's talk about that. So you know Alan, Alan meets number six, right, yep, that's that's a ship name name. Yeah. Yeah, Ella, you know they they they land on. Ella h absolutely adorable.

43:11 How cute is the little hug that she gives out? Oh my gosh, I know, just like I did to. I mean when when she hugs him, I immediately googled is it legal to have a one of these? One of these monkeys? And it is. There's only Dave, there's only like six states in the country that it's legal to have one of these. Is a pet Ohio one of them. Ohio is one of them. Of course, you know, you know Ohio the ho my beer estate, right, yeah. But uh, you know, we get the we get the montage kind of a vibe with Melanie teaching Alan and Ella how to work together. Yep, uh, you know, we get we get the first sign of Alan's happiness. Like you said, he's gonna go back to school. How great was it when the students are raising their hands and Ella raised their hands answer? Yeah, does your does your friend have the answer?

44:01 Do you have the you have the answer he did. And you know what I like about the scene that you're talking about. And you know what, I'm gonna go ahead say, you've you've now won me over. This is the pivotal moment. I like that. This is the shot where you get the initial chemistry developing between him and Melanie. Yep. And you see it like we talked about earlier, Like you see that you know she's she's got a thing for the guy. Yeah, you already see that connection between the two of them right there. It's starting to grow absolutely. Yep. Let's talk about one more scene. Uh, you alluded to it. I'm gonna call this. I'm gonna call this the monkey business scene. Okay, Okay, we'll go with that. I like it. I'm reading. I'm looking at my notes. My notes simply say go for it. Alan, Yes, good going man. Man.

44:47 That was awkward, but okay, well I like it though it has to happen, you know, I like that it happened. To be honest with you, Okay, it's awkward. It is awkward because it's it's not the norm. Okay, So you know, and to and to that point, I can't think of I don't know how many movies are that are out there that that show a sex scene involving a quadriplegic. I don't think there is any It just you know, it doesn't. Really happen, you know. And you kind of talked about this. Uh. According to producer Charles Evans, there was a more explicit cut of the oral sex scene that was drastically toned down by Romero. You know, he was like, hey, I want this to be gritty, and I want this to be and Romero is like, nah, let's we don't need that, and he kept toning it down, tone it down. So you know, but I do like that. Evans would later admit that Romero was right to tone it down because I think it.

45:47 Would have been from the story in my opinion the film itself, well, it really would have. I seem like this needed to be done tastefully because and and you know, and I I applaud the scene because it shows that someone that's in this situation can still be active, can still can still please their partner. Yep, you know, you're very careful. I'm being very careful how wording my conversation here. Yeah, but but but yeah, the scene, like we see enough to understand what's happening. You know, there's that. We we get what's implied. We don't need we don't need to be graphic. So with I'm with Ramara did the right thing here.

46:31 I absolutely agree with Amror on this one for sure. Dave. Let's take one more break and when we come back, we'll start wrapping things up. Okay, Dave, someone watches Monkey Shines, they enjoy it, and they look at you and they say, I love this. Uh this Georgia Merra, guy, what else does he have? What three films are you going to suggest they watch? And listen? We were talking off Mike, I have to We're gonna go three for three here, and I hope we do. I'd be I'd be surprised. I'll be I will be surprised if we don't. But let's find out. What's your first suggestion. My first, Justin is, obviously, since he's godfather dead is Knight of the Living.

47:13 Dead nineteen sixty eight. Night of the Living Dead, yep. One of the all time greatest horror films ever made. It is the creation of zombies. I mean, come on, creation of zombies. Yeah, they weren't even zombie like that. He did not call him zombies. No, he is. He's been on record. They were ghouls, they were creatures, he said, until like the press and the critics started labeling them in the phrase zombie like he didn't. He didn't embrace it for like another ten years, right, and then finally he's like, yeah, oh right, whatever, there's zombies. Okay, but he you know, think about think about sixty eight. I love the fact that Rameira always has think about this.

47:55 His movies tend not all of them, but a lot of them tend to have wrong black lead m and then the female supporting character who finds a strength having attached herself to that strong black lead. Have you noticed that I did, because that's definitely that's definitely not a living dead. Absolutely. Yeah, the movie had a lot to say, way ahead of its time. I'm gonna go on record here and say, do not watch the colorized version. That's just awful. Yes it is black and white baby. Stick with the black and white baby. Yeah. Absolutely, yep, all right. I'm with you your second suggestion, Dave.

48:39 Well, clearly, since I've discussed this film at a film at forty five, nineteen seventy eighth, Dawn of the Dead must. Absolutely yep, absolutely wet. Theer kind of themes in it you're talking about with neither the Living Dead, you know, he just he just evolves it even more commercialism and it just adds that into his film and it's just done so whoa. You don't realize it until you really start processing the film on what he did and what he brought and what he was telling you throughout the film. It's fantastic. There there is a four K collector's edition of Donald the Dead out there, well, you know because I own it. So like it's got four different versions of the movie and it's got like three weeks worth of behind the scenes extras. I still haven't got through all of them.

49:23 But man like, I love watching that film. I love I love the statement that it makes because it's fun. It's fun watching him run around just killing zombies, but the message that's that's in the movie. And Ken Fourie, who is just absolutely incredible in that movie. Yep, I gotta tell you, you know, because we've we've bumped into him once or twice. Yeah, when I got a chance to meet him, I was at Lexington Scarefest I think two years ago or a two years ago. That man is still like put him in a movie right now, yeah, because he hasn't really, he hasn't changed, right, He's amazing. And that movie was more than forty five years ago now right, Yeah, yeah, so excellent movie, Dave. One more suggestion, and I want to know what you're going to offer and see that we're gonna go three.

50:16 For three here. This is where I'm I'm pretty sure we're gonna go three for three here. And I am going with a film that I watched as a kid that I loved and fell in love with immediately, and that is nineteen eighty two's creep Show. Wait, you're not going Night Riders with ed him? I'm kidd Get out of here, Get. Out of here, Get out here, monkey, nineteen eighteens creep Show. Wow. Yeah, there's so much I love about that. It really is. Yeah, And you know, I always thought like, why couldn't we have got him to come back for the third one? Because you know, listen, I really like the creep I really love Creep Show two. Creep Show three is a train wreck. It's it's a little it's a little blow straight to video standards. Right, I'm just calling it like I see it, I watch, I gave it a shot.

51:06 It was not good. But creep show man, Well, let me ask you this. If I ask you, can you name? Do you have a favorite segment? You got something? I get? Hold on, let me think about it. Hold on second, Jeff, I always get my first one, the second one mixed up with. So you got, you got? You got? Okay, so you got. We're talking about Father's Day, which which has Ed Harrison It you've got the Crate, which has uh one of our friends, Adrian Barboll. Adrian Barboll. It's the is it the Crazy and Ted? Isn't Ted Danson's that one? And that one too, isn't it yep? Okay, yeah, the Tide, Yes. Ted Danson and Leslie Nielsen. I can hold my breath a long.

51:48 This one. Okay, you got? And then you know, just for our listeners, you're like, wait, what are the other ones? I'll say you got Stephen King in the US things, the sad case of Jordie Varrol, like where he fights the meteorite and that's right, comes like it takes over the farm in his house and him and he turns into like this living moss creature. Uh, and then finally you got E. G. Marshall and they'll creep up on you. He's like the rich guy with the high tech uh penthouse yep, and roaches are just more and more and more just getting in. And he's like he's got a real phobia with bugs. Right, what's what's your what's your go to? So my go to is gonna have to be the create ye with Adrian barbo because that is creepy as hell, Jeff with that create under the steps and just when you get rid of his wife and what he goes through, man, that's just it. I still have nightmares of that man to this day, just seeing those eyes when the creed the lid opens up.

52:46 Oh yeah, I had. I had such a wonderful conversation with Adrian Barboo. I know, I think it was like was it our first comment episode or maybe our second one that we put out where I shared some of her are the audio. I'm sitting there talking with her and the whole time my heart is beating because this woman is just gorgeous. She is today still today. She is super sweet, She's very just you know, she'll just melt your heart. And as you know, I'm talking to her and I and the only distraction I had was I had I had how Oolbrook in my head saying just tell him to call you Billy. Yeah, I'm with you.

53:33 I think when it comes down to it, because because Ted dancing and in the in the Tide one, that one's really good. But I think the storyline is better with the Crate. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go with the Crate. I'll tell you what. And Dave, I know, I know you already heard this. I'm sure most of our listeners already heard this. But for those of you that missed the The Creep Show Versus Twilight Zone the movie episode from our very good buddies Dan Jason over at the Shirley You Can't Be Serious podcast, Yep, that is an episode you do not want to miss. Go go over to Shirley You Can't Be Serious Podcast. Check out that episode. Because I don't know about you, Dave, but as soon as I heard it, I had the double feature it was Creep Show because they're both on the shelf behind me. Yeah, I love them.

54:21 Both, yep. But I got physical copies of them too, for sure. Yeah, Yeah, I love that. We Okay, So we're three for three. I knew we would be, and I've got four k special editions of everything we've talked about. Yeah, yeah, Dave, I don't think it's any any stretch of the imagination to say that we both recommend Monkey Shines. Yeah, I recommend it. It starts off a little slow, little unusual, but hang in there because it gets fantastic. Yeah. It is currently streaming on the Pluto TV app. It's also streaming on MGM plus. Dave. I know that because I didn't look at Pluto first, and I begrudgingly signed up for a free trial for MGM plus.

55:07 Over here we go with the free trial things. Listeners. If you don't if you don't know, what was the movie we were doing, Dave, where you're like, I just do. That, man, Uh, I don't remember. I don't remember. Oh it was it was for oh crap. I recommended a horror film for you. Yeah, And I was like it was on Shutter. Yeah. I was like, I was signed up for Shutter for seven days, watch it for free, and cancel it. What do you do, Jeff? You forget canceled. About the free seven day trial, and then like two months later, I'm like, why am I getting? What's what am I GETT? Who's this? Why am I getting? Build? Yeah?

55:48 I was like, hey, Dave, I'm gonn I'm gonna eat my forty bucks And You're like, Nah, I'm not. I'm not covering up. That's not happening. I listen. I I haven't canceled MGM plus yet because I just want to be I want to. I want to, I want to go through it. I just want to see if it's worth the six ninety nine a month. You know, just just don't come yelling if you forget to cancel it. Okay, I'm on day three, I got I got four more, four more days? All right, we'll see. Uh, but listen. I certainly recommend this one for any Romero fan interested in seeing what the man can do with a non zombie cast. Absolutely listeners. What do you think of Monkey Shines? Have you seen it?

56:29 Do we get this one wrong? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can check out www dot a film by podcast dot com for all of our film and TV articles and our entire library, which is streaming free. You can write to us at a film by a podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of my film by swag Dave. Always a pleasure discussing movies with you. Always absolutely love it. What do you guys? Uh? What are you guys at? Next on a phaser sets of Stunt. Well, we continue our journey with the original cast the original crew of the Enterprise, and we have the Search for Spock coming up.

57:19 I'mos just remind you and you and Wayne and Scott can think this is controversial all you want, but I happen to like. I happen to like the Search for Spock, so you better be nice to it. We are very nice to it. We're always nice. Come on, now, come on, you. Gotta like the Search for Spot Man. It's like it's like the back half of of Con. It is you have. You have the trilogy here man, You've got con you got the Search for Spock and The Voyage Home. Those three movies go together, they. Really absolutely do. Yeah. All right, well, I thank you for taking some time off the bridge at the Enterprise to to talk Georgia Mara with me and to all of you listening to the show, following us on social media, and subscribing to our Patreon. We thank you.