Kevin Costner - Horizon: An American Saga Chapter 1

0:00 I gotta tell you, I'm a real Costner kick lately question for you, and I'm gonna I'm gonna give you this caveat to begin with. Okay, you can't choose a Western or a baseball movie. And with that in mind, do you have a favorite Kevin Costner performance? Well, you took a lot of good films out of that, I took a y. I'm challenging you, man. You are so he's got. He's got a lot of other good roles that are not a Western or not a Baseball I always have to go with Frank Farmer from the Bodyguard. Okay, Frank Farmer is a fantastic character. Great movie. Yes, yes, absolutely great movie. I'm curious, what's yours? If you if you had asked me, this is one of those questions like my answer is gonna rotate. But if you had asked me a couple of weeks ago, I'd say, I'd say Jim Garrison.

0:58 K. Yeah, yeah, that's a spectacular right. However, a couple of nights ago I watched Mister Brooks, which I think is such an underrated film. It's it's an amazing thriller. He is just dynamite in it. You know, William Hurt mm hm is I. I can't take my eyes off him when he's on the screen. And let's not yeah, and let's not forget Gimmi Moore. Yeah, she's incredible. This is man. Okay, I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say mister Brooks because I have hope that maybe one day we'll we'll get a we'll get a follow up film, another mister Brooks movie. We could that's a good choice. We should talk about that movie sometime on a film but I think, yeah, that'd be fun. Well, I'll tell you what we're not gonna talk about today, but I think we should talk about a film by Kevin Costner. And you know why I want to talk about this one. So, uh, let's let Dave. This is something new for us, but let's talk about his twenty twenty four critically underrated western Horizon and American Saga Chapter one. Hello,

2:36 everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm David Burns, and this is a film by podcast Dave. You know, let's just talk about it. Recently, they announced that Horizon in American Saga Chapter two has been indefinitely delayed from its you know, August sixteenth release date. You and I were both excited for it. It's just it's it's It had me in a foul mood when they when they announced this, Yeah, I didn't know that had been announced yet. And then you reached out by a message and told me that, and then I went and read it, and yeah, it ruined my day. Did not mean they really wanted to see that? Yeah, I know, it's it. Well, yeah, it kind of put me on this Costner kick. I started going through his whole catalog because it just bummed me out because I was so excited for for the for the second chapter. Well yeah, but then you know, we thought like, hey, you know, let's let's show some love to Costner. Let's let's show some support to this this amazing film. Let's let's let's talk about it. Because we don't typically do this, No, we don't. You know, this is you know, if this is back to the box office, We're we're maybe spending ten minutes just telling you what we what we thought worked, and what didn't, whether you should go see it. But we're we're going to dive in a little bit deeper on this one, right and we'll be spoiler free, right, of course we will. Yeah, I don't want to learn this for anybody who's not seen it. By no means, I don't want to ruin it for anybody. And you know, here's the thing. It is currently today, It is playing in theaters and it is available premium what do they

4:11 call that? Premium video on demand? Yeah, you can. You can watch this at home. So I'll tell you what before it should be. But before we get to that, I do want to say a quick thing. Here. Our latest episode, our latest nineteen ninety six episode, Primal Fear Amber. Amber took me to court on this one, had a great time, great conversation. It is exclusively available on Patreon and listeners. Did you know that you can sign up for a free membership to our Patreon now because we have plenty of bonus content and exclusive episodes, and some of which are now free, So you know, sign up. It costs you nothing.

4:53 And if you decide you want full access for all the episodes and content, you can you can always upgrade. But what do you wait to check out? Yeah? Do it? Yeah, sign up free membership. If you're wondering, like, hey, what happened to? What happened to? Primal Fair. It is there. Go to patreon dot com slash a film by podcast sign up today, Dave. As we said, Horizon and American Saga is currently playing in theaters. It's available to rent or buy on demand. So whether whether you watch it on the big screen or from the comfort of your couch, you want to let the listeners know what this film is all about. Absolutely I do. While most of the country is being ravaged with civil war, many others are making their way west to start new lives for themselves and their families in a place called Horizon. However, the West is a rough place to try and start a new life, especially in the territory of the Apache, who clearly do not want anyone on their land.

5:47 In chapter one of a four part series, we see the beginnings of characters who are already in Horizon or are making their way westward. We witness their struggles, their love, their loss, their pain, and through it all we watched as they do whatever it takes to survive. In this film, we watched the America Saga unfold before our eyes. This is such a beautiful film visually, and I know we'll probably mention, we'll probably talk about the DP here in a minute. But I'm just telling you, like I'm sitting in the theater, this is we didn't you and I didn't see this one together, And I'm telling you, sitting in this theater, I'm like, somewhere Dave Burns is watching this and he is loving every frame of this picture.

6:31 Your initial thoughts like, were you just blown away by the first ten to fifteen thirty minutes of this thing? So yeah, I mean, I'm like Kevin Costner, I'm a huge history buff, and I was smiling ear to ear as soon as the first frame started, the first beat of the tone of John Debne's score, I was already in tune with this film. And yeah, I mean, every shot in this film is just done beautifully and pulls you right into what's going on on screen. And this is something, in my opinion, should be seen on the big screen because it's gigantic, not just that it's an epic in stories size, but just because of the way it shot. See it on the biggest screen available. If you're gonna watch this at home, If you're watching this at home later to later tonight or this weekend, I hope you have one of the biggest TVs on the market because this movie it just demands it. I think it does.

7:26 I know we said we're gonna be spoiler free. Uh, you kind of alluded to this in your synopsis. We got we got like, what four different stories there are that are kind of that are kind of converging towards the end of the movie. Yep. Were you surprised by the the lack of Kevin Costner in the beginning of the movie. But is he in this movie? Right? I'm I'm I did hit a point where I was like, holy shit, he's in the He's in this one, right, Like I know there's four there's gonna be four of them, but I know I saw him in the trailer, Like where is he? Where is he? But you know what, Jeff and I love that though it was it was one of those things it worked so well because you're so involved with the story, you're so involved with the characters. By the time he shows up, you're like, oh, there he is. But then you get really pulled into his character because at first you're like, well, of course Kevin Costra is gonna be the main character of this entire film. No, he's not.

8:24 No, he's not. No. I don't think this ruins it for anything. I'm just talking about his performance. But do you do you get the impression that he was he was kind of channeling Clint Eatwood's Man with No Name. Oh yeah, for his for his character, oh yeah, without question. He's got such a quiet, a quiet cool about him that there's a mysteriousness about him. And you really still don't get to know a lot about him. And again, this is not ruining anything, because you know, we're not going to tell you who he is or anything like that, but you still don't get a lot about his character, right, You get a little bit tidbits here and there. I'm sure they're saving it up for the other chapters. Of course, Well maybe they are, maybe they're not. I would my hot take is I would be content to not know a single detail about his background other than what we find out, right. I just dig the fact that he's like this mysterious guy who's who's heading to horizon, you know, like everybody else, and he's fantastic. He is. He absolutely everybody's fantastic in this movie. Everyone and all the stories are really well done. I saw some like rumors from people, not rumors, people who were kind of complaining about the film, and I really want to set that a little bit straight. People were complaining that it was really slow at times and there wasn't a lot of action. There is a lot of action in this movie, So don't get me wrong when I say that there's some really good action in this movie. But let's not forget. This is chapter one, okay. This is like picking up a book and reading like a little portion of you know, the first in a chapter or I don't know.

9:54 It depends on how long the book is, so let's say it's twenty chapters. This might be the first three chapters of that of that book. Okay. So of course you're not gonna get a lot because there's so many stories that are just intertwined throughout this but they're so well done in my opinion, that you quickly want to know more as soon as this switch is to the next story, because you and you get involved into that one, and then you're thinking about the one before, and then all of a sudden you go back to that one again. I thought it was paced really well, that's my opinion. I think it was paced. I think no, you're absolutely right, you don't pick up a book. You know, you don't pick up a Stephen King book, read two chapters and go eh, it's not that scary, right, No, I'm not gonna finish it. You got to build up, right Yep. And initially I saw, actually I saw this. I wasn't. I wasn't completely davilous, our buddy def Dave, him and Jackson from the Apples and Oranges podcast. Yep, they were in town for a concert, so we got to check this one out. And initially I did tell that Dave. I was like, you know, I don't know about the pacing on this one. I feel like it was a little hard hard to follow. He course corrected me immediately. He's like, no, there was nothing wrong with his pacing of this. The editing's perfect and here's why. So shout out to deaf Dave. I know he's listening to this one. Uh, Dave, good job job. Yeah, always always take a Dave to the theater with you. Oh wait, I have a few. So, but I think I think the pacing is great.

11:24 You know, you're you're on the money with that and the reason why it works, you know, like, like you said that, there's some great action sequences in this. But this is not an action film. This is this is a drama. It's a western, it's a drama, whatever you want to call it. But you have to remember it's also three hours long. If if if Kevin Costner tried to cramp three hours of action down our throats, we'd be exhausted. We wouldn't right, it wouldn't be as interesting either, and you wouldn't care. You wouldn't care about the characters. I care about the characters because you know the the action is intense, because I care about the characters exactly that we've built up, the tension is built up, and I'm afraid for some of these characters in some of these scenes that we you know, will we'll we'll tiptoe around because I don't want to give them away. But right well, I mean there's stuff that was in the trailer. We're not ruining anything because trailer. You got to know some of those scenes. We just won't give away any of the details of what happens in those scenes at the end. But you know the one scene that Jeff when they were in the cabin and then the apaches were attacking, you know, gosh, he that in the trailer. So that's not ruining anything that was intense. That entire scene, that stuff takes a place around that cabin and in that cabin crap man, uh huh yeah, And and Costler's nowhere, he's nowhere near to nowhere near to be found. Right. No, I'm happy when his character Hayes Ellison, which, by the way, what a name. That's that's a cool name. It is a cool name.

12:50 And then he's playing that too, is even better. Yeah, Hayes Ellison. I'm okay with him not being immediately in the picture because the other stories, like you you talked about, and the performances by these actors and actresses are just yep, they're they're compelling, Dave. There there are one hundred and one people in this cast. That's a lot. So before this huge so before this becomes a film by a podcast saga Chapter one, I'll tell you what. Let's let's well, we're gonna do this a little more rapid fire than what we'd probably like to do. But I got what we have to I got I got about ten people here. I want to talk about it. If I miss someone, though, you you correct me, you you know, you bring them up but you know we've been talking about Kevin Costner. This woman Abby Lee, who plays Marigold. She's the mysterious uh yeah character that's that's hooked up with Hayes Ellison on his his section of the journey. Yep. I don't know where she comes from because I have not seen her before. But I thought this young this young woman was fantastic, so extremely talented actress. There's there's no doubt about it. Her character just rubbed me wrong the wrong way. It should really should, you know, because the things that happened in the movie, that she does, that she says, and what she's trying to get and how she treats people, just it rubs you wrong. But it's the character and it should do that to you because you know, you want to feel a little bit for Hayes when he gets introduced to her. But then whatever, Hayes rolls with it, right, Yeah, he's just you know, he's coming in down like a

14:22 gun slinger. It's it's cool. Uh. The Merritgold character, this is she she's one of those like saloon girls, right, you know, she's you know, it's in the trailer. Yeah, I don't I don't know what the appropriate term would be that, you know, for for this time. You know, I won't use the derogatory term that they use for But she's a She's a lady that you can spend some time with for a certain amount of money. Right, I don't know. I think she has she has her moments that I really enjoy. Her heart, what she's what she's willing to do for those around her. I'm being careful, as you can tell them. I know you are, and you should be. Don't give anything wait with that story, you know. But she's also she also does some things where you're like, come on, come on, Mary, that's what do you do? Better? Be better? Yeah, But the actress Abby Lee, she's fantastic, doing a fantastic job. I'll tell you who's doing a super fantastic job in this uh our main villain Caleb Sykes played by Vecna Sorry, Jamie Campbell Bauer's from Stranger Things, but ya this dude.

15:43 If there's one thing you learned from his performance in Horizon is that he does not need a bunch of a bunch of makeup and latex to be scary and creepy. Because his character Caleb Sykes is one for the books, you know, and again this is a scene that we have to tiptoe around. But this, this is the scene that that you don't talking about him and Hayes's introduction their meeting, when they get their meeting, their meeting, that whole sequence was my favorite of the entire film. Jeff, are we are we jumping to a pivotal moment? No, we don't have to. No, No, let's do this. Let's let's we're gonna dive right in. Okay, you just you just fired your six shooter at me with I guess, so all right, looks My pivotal moment for this this movie is the meeting between Hayes and Caleb Sykes. Mine too, because I don't know about you, but my fingers were gripping the arm rest of the of the the seat, yep, because I just I was like, I can't believe they're going head to head right now, right here? What's about to happen? Well, you know, we don't want to give it away, but non, but the dialogue there between the two of them, holy crap, man, it was so well done, so intense. Have you ever the banter?

17:03 Have you ever seen banter between a hero and a villain. No, not only written so well, but performed so well. Yeah, and and and again. Part of that scenees in the trailer, you know, yeah it is. He says, oh, we got a bad man here, Oh we got a bad man. Yeah. Yeah, that scene is what we're talking about everyone. So when you get to that scene, just prepare yourself because it is so well. Yeah, take your hand out of the popcorn bucket. Just you don't want to You don't want to miss anything. You don't want to miss a single sound or a single single moment. It's fantastic. Jamie Campbell Bauer. This guy he can only go only you know, he's shooting for the strats Fairs. As Farstone concerned, I'm already excited to see what he's got next. And let's give the guy a break and he let him play a good guy. Well, I mean before he becomes a tied cat. He's he's awesome as a bad guy. But yeah, hey, give give the kid a chance. Yeah. The the the whole psych family, Jeff, Yeah, there themselves. They are a bunch of cycle paths. Yeah, this is like, uh, the family from the Hills have eyes if they weren't be but still out there deranged on the on the uh out out there in the wilderness. Yeah, crazy group mm hm.

18:23 I was surprised because again, there's so many people in this film and the trailer can only show you so much. But I was surprised to find Jenna alone in this movie. She's she's playing Ellen Harvey. Yeah, and it almost didn't look like her. Like I had a contentracts like, is that Jena Malone? It's you. You look at her and you're like, she looks familiar. Then you then a scene later you're like, I think that might be Jennam alone. And then a scene or two later you're like, it sounds like Jenna alone, but it can't be. But but it can't It is that Jenna alone? Yeah, Well, she's one of those actresses that, uh, she's a good chameleon. Yeah. I think. I think when she takes a role, she becomes that role. She she just disappears into the role. So you don't you don't quickly see Jennam Malone.

19:10 And I think that's a that's a that's a movie like this needs that. It does, you know what a very interesting story that she's involved in. Again, we're not gonna say anything, but what a very interesting story with them because when it when it first starts, you're kind of like, what's what's going on here? You know, and then it starts unraveling. Then you realize what's going on. Yeah, credit to her performance. Like I said, we were like, is that Jenna alone? You put anyone else? Like if you put like, let's say you put Reese Witherspoon in this role, I think your brain is immediately going to detach and go, hey, Reese Witherspoon's here. Oh yeah, of course. And I'm not you know, and she's a phenomenal actress you know herself. But I just feel like there's certain there's certain actresses and actors that melted. They just they melt into their performance and then you're like, wow, and she you know all because all you see is Ellen Harvey and what Ellen Harvey is trying to to do, you know, her motivation for for what she does in the in the film. So all right, she's fantastic. How about Uh, I'm gonna need your help with this one. Uh the character name, but I'm talking about Owen Crowshew. Oh, Like this is another incredible actor. I'm sure he's he's here because you know, we need you know, Kevin Costner is not gonna gonna put the wrong person in the in the in the role no way. We needed We need to We need someone fierce, We need someone that that can can plan Apache warrior mm hmm. This guy wowed me every film screen. Every soon he says on screen, I was like,

20:41 WHOA, who is this guy? Yeah? Love, you want to you want to know who he is right away because he is such a powerful actor. He brings a presence on screen. And that's exactly what Kevin Costler was going for because he needed that presence, and man does he bring it. Yeah. Well this is the again. This is one of those performances where you're you're why someone like Owen crow Shoe hm, you completely forget that Kevin Costner is in the movie or supposed to be in the movie, because we haven't seen him yet. And at this point, my brain's telling me, I don't care who is this guy and just let's just keep the story going with him because when his when the story cuts away from him, and that's a that's a that's it. That's the great thing about this film. But it's also for me at times frustrating. Think about this film. You get so just deep into one of these these stories and then they cut to one of the other territories because we're like, we're like four separate territories, four separate stories, and you're like, no, I want more. Ye at least you're saying that until you get wrapped up into the story that that that Costner throws you into exactly. So you know, I but but with with but with this guy. Even when I'm I'm like in the other territories, like whether I'm with Costner or I'm with Luke Wilson or or Sam Worthington, I'm still wondering, like where there is uh, where's a? What is it? Uh? How you say it again? Pians? Yeah, I'm wondering where's ponce A? What is he? What is he doing? Yeah?

22:11 And I'm excited to get back to his story. I couldn't find much about this guy. I don't know, well, he's a fairly new actor on the scene. Is a fairly new actor. Yeah, well, yeah, you're not gonna forget a name like that. No. Oh and crow show that's you know, and he's and I can't wait to see more from him and I'm not talking just for a horizon. I want to see him more from him in other films too, because the dude is very talented. I'm salivating over what he's going to do in chapter two. Oh yeah, absolutely. However, you know, like you said, he's another one like like Abby Lee. M hm. I can't wait to see what they got coming up next. Moving right along, Dave Cianna Miller plays Francis Kittridge, just the epitome of pioneer woman. Yeah. I gotta tell you, I really believe her in this role. This is this is an actress who you know, she's a gorgeous actress, don't get me wrong, but a lot of her roles are like the I'm the beautiful woman, right, even like something like an action with like g I Joe. You know, she's playing the baroness, but she's still You're like, wow, Hey, what's up baroness? Uh? She is so authentic though in this and I think that's why she got the role. Or not that's why she got the role because he's a very talented actress got the actress. But but she's got that look, you're right, that just that fits the part beautifully. And again she melted until we just spoke about that melting into the performance. Uh, I'll be careful here, but you know, it's a it's a powerful performance.

23:44 I love I love what she's you know, uh, you know, single mother trying to make it on the on the frontier. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you the question, Uh, do you feel she's justified in her decisions towards the end of this film? Is it? Is it too soon? It's too soon? That's okay, one of that's one of my problems because when it happens, I'm kind of like, really already. Well okay, so I you know, for people that want the spoilers, you know, there's some reviews I read. I read some reviews that people have given that are like and I'll again everyone is highly favorable of this film. But surprisingly I read I read some uh some reviews from female audience members who kind of questioned some of her choices, you know, and agree with you like, hey, a little too soon. But one pointed out, like, hey, this is the Old West. People people dive old age tomorrow. Yeah, people dive of old age of like forty, so this is true.

24:44 Maybe maybe she's not too hasty in her decisions, but the things that happened to get her to the point where she was at. You got to consider your lifespan is not too long. Party out there in the West, so quickly. Yeah, I mean this is this is like basically this is you know, for a big chunk of this movie is like you know, the Oregon Trail. Yeah, the video game, but as the movie, he died of dysentery. Yeah, we're not the Luke Wilson yet. But no, Sianna Miller. Again, this is Costner. He's he's doing something to us where he is. He's putting us really deep into these characters and the relationships. And the second you are like, oh he's got you right there on the edge, you're so excited about what's about to happen, he pulls you right out of their story and puts you back with Owen Crow or you know, or general alone. But Sanna Miller's story, she she spends a lot of time on screen with Sam Worthington, who I gotta say, it's nice to see him back on the big screen. I love watching Sam Worthington.

25:51 He needs to do more. Where did he go? Well, okay, so he he shows up what like ten years ago in the Clash of the Titans remake, you just assume, oh yeah, and then he's got a Terminator movie, you know, he's one of that. He's in the was it the Fourth Terminator? Third Term? Yeah, Fourth Terminator. So you just assumed this guy's gonna be an epic action hero and he kind of he kind of just fades away. He's kind of faded into like that that direct to DVD world for a little bit, and I don't understand that he's he's playing first Lieutenant Trent and get part here, and you know from the minute, like like Costner, the first time Costner shows up on screen, you're like, I, obviously we love him, but do we are we supposed to like him? Great? Do we trust him? Yeah? Right?

26:40 Is he your typical military lieutenant who is just going to have the military comes first, he doesn't care about anybody else. Well, no, I'm saying, I'm saying no, no, no, that's all you like you're getting. Yeah, yeah, because like Costner, like I I like him, but I don't know if I trust him. Wait, Sam Worthington, the minute he's on screen, I think I I I recognize him as our true blue hero character. Absolutely, this is the guy that will do things the right way. He's gonna save the day. He's the gentleman right well, in the decisions that he makes in the film, Yeah, you could tell he's that type of character, you know. Yeah, you can tell he immediately cares about the people that he's trying to assist. After you know, what happens, and when they go back to the fort, back to the camp, it continues, even what he does with his coat. Yeah.

27:29 Wow's that there tells you what kind of character he is, you know. Yeah, you're right. And then and then the whole doctor thing, the whole doctor scene again. Yeah, but I mean, come on, man, Yeah, that that's That's a great moment for for Sam Worthington's character when he he uh he gets the doctor involved. Yeah we'll just leave it at that. Yep. Yeah, fantastic moment for for his character. I love and in the chemistry between him and Sanna Miller, I'm in. I'm all in, Oh, absolutely all in. You know, send me an invitation to the wedding. I believe it. I wanted, you know, I'm already I don't know what's gonna happen to their characters in chapter two.

28:10 But I'm looking forward to it absolutely. Say let's uh, let's go back to the Oregon Trail uh and try not to die of dysentery. Luke Wilson as Matthew Van Waden, he's kind of like the trail boss, right, yep, I did not Again, I don't remember him in the trailer. He probably was in the trailer. I do remember him. I don't remember Will Patten. Yeah, I mean I didn't even have Will Patton on my on my radar because Will Patten was, well, he's Will Patten. But but but Luke Wilson, who we we we know in love typically for his his comedic chops mm hmm. Fantastic seeing him as a a very dry, no nonsense, serious role. I don't I know he's done it. I know he's done roles like you know, I know he's done some dramatic roles.

28:57 But it's just, you know, remember him. Great to see him. It's great to see him here. And what I love about his character, Jeff, is you get to see that he's got he's a mixture of an introvert and an extrovert. Okay, you see that in his character here because he understands his role, he knows what he has to do. He's leading this wagon trail West, and he's doing a really good job. But he's very talented and good at it, you can tell. But then when he has to discipline someone, oh yeah, he completely becomes the introvert and wants nothing to do with it, no confrontation at all. Look, I don't blame him. You saw the size of that gout right, But I but I appreciate the fact that he does step up and he doesn't. He doesn't. He's not a coward, no, not at all. Right, And you know, even when even when he's challenged and they're like, you know, what are you? You're the boss now, and he's like, well, god, yeah, God damn it, I am, you know, I kind of I'm kind of you know, who else is going to do it? So I love the fact that it You you almost get the impression that that his his responsibilities were kind of thrust on thrust on him.

30:06 He wasn't. This wasn't his initial you know, plan, This was not his situation, and he's he kind of inherited the responsibility, which which comes with a lot of baggage obviously, because even like you know, like the young couple, you know who he has to kind of put in line with the water. Yeah, yeah, that's It's it's interesting because like he is very quick to discipline them and kind of throw his weight around. You know, when you're looking at that guy who's like six seven, you know you're gonna tell you're gonna be a little more uh, cautious with your words. But but he but the fact is he doesn't back down. And I dig that about Luke Wilson in this movie. Really good role. It's great to see Michael Rooker in this Uh I didn't know what, you know, I didn't know what kind of role he was going to give us. He's Sergeant Major Thomas Reordan. He's kind of like, uh, he's he's a Sam Worthington's like second in command or highly kind of presents it. I absolutely love the tenderness that Michael Rooker's character has. And again you can tell him and Worthington's characters are a perfect match because they both are that tender, caring.

31:19 You can tell what they how they treat their troops, their soldiers. You know, they care about them and they're going to take care of them no matter what. You know. They're the scene that Rooker has with the other two soldiers who go to do something you know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, you know, and when he's working in the cornfield and he's got to keep his eye on someone. I love that scene. I thought it was so humorous and so funny of what was going on. You really didn't know what was going on until it happened. Yeah, you're like, ah, yeah, as soon as you realize what's happened, and the Shenanigans, you're like, now I like it. Okay, now I see where we're going with it. And then again, it's just like the Code with Worthington, what he does, but that you know, it's perfect Rooker, Rooker. It's it's what it is. It's acts of kindness that you wouldn't necessarily expect from characters like this or in the situations like this that that that make their performances, uh, just fantastic, you know, absolutely. I can't I honestly, Dave, I can't say enough about this cast. I wish we could talk about talk about, you know, this group more. I wish we could talk about. There's plenty of other people when not even mentioning, but there's one other one I want to add though, Jeff Okay, who do you got? And that's Jeff fay Hay who plays the tracker. Uh. I loathe him in this as you as you as you should. You know, he's a he's a dirt ball.

32:43 He's someone you really don't want to be with, yeah, for sure, but he plays it so well in this movie that you have to recognize that. Absolutely. Yeah, I was excited. Here's here's the thing. I was excited when I saw Jeff Aye show up and I was like, all right, another great character. I can't wait to follow him and see what and then as soon as you realize who he is and what motivates him, Yeah, I couldn't wait for an apache arrow to hit his skull. I kept hoping for it, you know, And that's that's not a spoiler because it doesn't. He's he will see him in chapter two. Oh but man, I just was like, Fay, he you jerk, you know, bring it? You know he's he's slinging mud to the Jeff name.

33:28 As far as I don't like it, man, Yeah, he doesn't get to know him though, I was like a character I'm not gonna like, but I love it. Listen, you, Dave, you and I have talked about it hundreds of times. You cannot care about your heroes unless they have great villains, absolutely to to contend with. And you know, and you want to care about these these these villains and and Fay. He he's he's bringing it in this one. He's bringing it because he's he's got charisma. Yeah, you know, am I am uh i am I am I out of line to say he's he's he's somewhat charming. He is in a way. Yeah, it's like I want to sit around the campfire and and hear his stories. But I also am you know, disgusted by him.

34:12 So it's right, he's he does a great job. Absolutely does a great job. I'll tell you what. Let's let's take a quick break and when we get back, I know we got to talk about a couple of people behind the scenes before we jump into production. Okay, all right, welcome back. Dave and I are discussing Kevin Costner's critically underrated Western Horizon in American Saga Chapter one. Criminally underrated criminally underrated, can we, you know, in the interest moving, keeping things moving, you know, keep keeping us on pace. I know we can't spend a lot of time, but you know, we already talked about how gorgeous this picture is. The cinematography.

34:57 Who is this? J Michael A. Row And you probably recognize some of his work. He worked with Kevin Coster in Open Range. Okay, well, see, okay, he's on he's he's doing camera work and Open Range. He did DP for Open Range. Okay, okay, yep, he did the Chronicles of the Chronicles of Riddick, he did Crash and if you've seen the TV series Longmire, he did that as well. He does some of that. Yes, beautifully everything he's done, Love it All, which Crash talking about? Are we talking about the Oscar winner? Are we talking about the creepy one? The after Winner? Okay? Yeah, either way, I mean either way, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Monroe's work is awesome. It is and it shows off where they're shooting at absolutely uh in a dramatic fashion, as it should, because not only do we have characters in this, you know, played by actors, but the area that it's in is a character in itself. I think you would agree with that. I would absolutely agree with that. Dan. You know, I've been lucky. I've been fortunate enough to to shoot some you'r uh uh short films, and I gotta tell you, like sometimes the the location does a lot of the lot of the heavy lifting for you, which I think you could. You could, you would assume that with a movie like Horizon, But there's just so much to take in and that's a lot of pressure on a DP to to to look at this setting. I mean, think about where they're at because you know they're on location. It's like, yeah,

36:27 I've got a lot to a lot to pull into this this shot. And meanwhile, keep keep the focus on on your actors who are performing their craft. But meanwhile, look what look what's surrounding them. Absolutely, the guy. The guy's amazing as far as I'm concerned. Yep. Very talented individual, that's for sure. I can see why Kevin Costner chosen We we have we definitely have to We've got to talk about this score. Uh, John Debney, this listen. I know you are a big fan of Debt. I've recently become a major fan of Debney, and I would almost say that this might be some of his best work. M h. You know, I've got a lot of good work out there, but this has got a lot of great work, right, But what your your thoughts on you know your your thoughts on this. On this score though, so it's clearly epic in scale. And so if you've seen the trailer to this, the piece that Debney creates for that trailer from beginning to end of that, it's in this film in its entirety. And the scene that it's really heavily used in in its entirety from the trailer is is you know the attack scene which you you see in the trailer with the cabin and stuff like that. And when Debney hits on the notes that he needs to hit when certain things are happening for dramatic reasons, he knocks it out of the park with his music score.

37:52 And there's the one scene that happens inside the tent, Jeff, that I can't say we yeah when it does happen. I mean, the Debney's score is hitting its crescendo right then and there, and it just floods emotions in you. And if it doesn't move you, there's something wrong with you. The sweeping, just magnitude of this score. I mean it swells at just the right moments. I absolutely love it. Yeah, I mean the the I love scores to have vocals, and he uses vocals in this absolutely beautifully, which Debney has done and he does sco but even like even like the subtle moments, like with his use of strings. Oh yeah, it's so so beautiful. Yep. But I've been listening to this. H I got I got the score my Spotify. I'm telling you right now, even like the the final track or one of the final tracks. Uh, you know, and for those of you looking on Spotify, it's I'm talking about Horizon montage begins slash closing survey mm hm, that whole scene, Dave.

39:00 I had been sitting there for three hours, and I was not ready to get up. I was like, bring me chapter two right now after. I need more. I need more. I'll tell you what else we need more of the listeners have been telling us, and you know, we've been trying to supply it when we can. Our good buddy, uh Wayne White did oh yeah, I think it's time for another scoring session because I know Wayne loves John Debney. He is Wayne take it away, sir. Composer John Debney has been a man whose work I've followed since very early in his career. I discovered Debney's music back in the early nineteen nineties with his Emmy winning scores for the Steven Spielberg TV series Sequest DSV, and over the years he's composed some of the most incredible soundtracks of recent times, from TV scores like The Star Trek, The Next Generation episode The Pegasus, the nineteen ninety six Doctor Who TV movie, and recently his work on the Oraville in Young Sheldon and to his film's hocus Pocus and It Seeks The Passion of the Christ Iron Man two, and even this year is Garfield the Movie. I have dozens of John Debney scores on my shelf and love every one of them.

40:07 So when I heard the announcement that Debney would be scoring Kevin Costner's new Western film Horizon, I was overjoyed. Debney has excelled at bringing US americanas Skyles scores, and I knew that he would bring his best game to such an epic film like this. The best quote to bring up we won directly from director Kevin Costner. Music is important, but it's important to get the right guy, and for Horizon, John Debney was the right guy. This isn't the first time John had worked with on a project with Costner. He had scored the actors twenty twelve mini series Hatfields and McCoy's for the History Channel. Both Debney and Costner chose the Royal Scottish National Orchestra to perform the music this time. John had worked with this orchestra before, back in the nineteen nineties on re recordings of famous scores like Superman the Movie and The Seventh Voyage of Simbad for Very Stare Band Records. There are some incredible sand out pieces from this score. The first of my pick would be the incredible five minute start of Massacre, a furious and fast action cue with bursts of brass and low strings that set the tone for this important scene in the film. Then there's Russell escapes Slash Nathaniel leaving Francis and Elizabeth, a full orchestra feast of loud brass and thunderous percussion which showcases debn ability to handle a full orchestra. Next is Bearing the Dead and identifying bodies, a somber yet gorgeous piece with full strings and underlying piano that reminds me of an earlier score that he did for the TV movie Classes sixty one, which I consider nearly as perfect a score

41:42 as Debney can give us. Next would be Seducing Hayes and Francis in Geppart, which, while listening to this, makes me remember his scores for the TV series The Young Riders, which he won his first Emmy Award with. Then finally there's Horizon and Montage begin closing Survey, which returns the music to triumphant heroism, beginning with two minutes of optimistic strings and brass, and then ending with the orchestra bringing the whole film to a thunderous climax. At the present, soundtrack fans will be happy to know that this score, all ninety five minutes of incredibled Debney music in thirty nine tracks, is available to download or stream on Amazon, Apple, and any other major digital musical services.

42:24 Debney himself has said that a CD version of the score is coming in the near future, but a date or label has not been set at this time. John Debney has been confirmed to have scored the film's sequel, Chapter two, and this will give the composer a chance to take the themes he has created for chapter one and explore them further. I can't wait to see what he brings us musically next. In the meantime, please go out and watch Horizon Chapter one, either in theater or when it's released on digital platforms on July sixteenth. Listen to the music. You're in for a treat. I couldn't said a better Wayne. You know what, Wayne introduced me to John Debney years ago, years ago, and I know Wayne has always been anything Debney he brings out. Wayne has been all over and I couldn't agree more with everything that Wayne had said about his score for this film. Very talented individual and he shows off his talent in this film without question he does.

43:22 I'll tell you something. This is one of the first times we've done it. We've done an episode where I was like, you know, I would love to talk to this composer at some point, like if Dave, if we could get John Debney to join us and just talk about his work. Yeah, we're gonna work on that, Jeff, We're gonna work all right. Hey, I'm all for it. Yep, tell me about tell me a little bit about how this movie came to be, Like, can we talk about the background a little bit? Yeah, absolutely so. Actually, Kevin Costnrom came up with this idea back in like nineteen eighty eight. Clearly probably at that time he wasn't ready to roll this out as the biggest scale that this is, but you know, it goes with his personal beliefs that you know, he loved and was inspired by the two true story of the American Old West, so he obviously wanted to bring that to fruition and bring it to a reality on our screens. So he's been working on it since then. He actually took it to Walt Disney. I believe it was I want to say around the beginning of two thousand and two thousand and three something of that neighborhood. Yeah, and Disney was apparently going to do it.

44:28 They were in pre production of it, but he discovered the studio kind of had some limits with it and didn't want to give the budget that he was needing for this film, so he backed out of I know, so he backed away from Disney. You know, I said, nevermind, you know, I'm going to take my time. This is my baby. I love this and I want it to be as big and as epic as as it can be, because that's the way he envisioned it, right, Yeah, well he wanted to pull with from that. I could if this would have come out in like early two thousands or even nineties m hmm, from Disney, like I could see them kind of going like with like a Touchstone Studio or Buenavista. Yep, given given the kind of picture is. But man, it would be so clean, I guess what I'm looking for. It was just it would it would just feel so so inauthentic. It would.

45:19 And he's the crazy thing too, is that he really didn't plan it to be the big three four films that it is going to be now. Yeah. It was actually going to be more of a single film, which would never have worked in my opinion now that we've seen what we've gotten. So I guess around twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen he expanded it to become a trilogy at that time, which now we know has become four films. Four films. Yeah, and he got John Baird involved, who helped write the script. Good choice, absolutely, a very good choice. And then he brought it to first and they actually filmed this the entire thing in muab Utah. I was wondering, like if this like where is this at? Because it's yeah, then it's just it's just it's breathtaking country. It is as far as I'm concerned, and that's why he chose it to be filmed there.

46:09 And Jeff, you know me, I'm always I will praise cgi where it needs to be praised, when it needs to be used, but it's overused in a lot of films. I praise this film and the fact that everything is location love it and I absolutely love it. Everything's a real set, everything's on location in moa Utah, and you can see it. Everything's tangible, everything's real, and you feel that you are in the West with these characters in this absolutely Another thing I want to go ahead now. One other thing that I want to do call out in this film is that Kevin Costner's son is in this movie. Oh really know that? No, I mean, I know there's a couple of kids, you know, kids run around this movie. But wait, who is he playing? He plays Nathaniel kid Rich. Oh okay, he's the Sun. Yeah, yes, that's that's Kevin Costner's son. Hayes Costner his name wait, his son in real life, his name is real, Yes, is named Hayes, and Costner is playing a guy named him that Cort. That's that's cool. I like that, Yes, sir. You know you mentioned you mentioned him back away from Disney because they didn't want to give him the money, the right the right amount of money. M hm. My understanding is that he he puts up thirty eight million of his own money for the budget, yes, sir, And then he has like two anonymous investors, uh kind of kind of add a couple, a couple more men. Any mortgages his home to make sure this gets done. Now, that is such a commitment. It is it's

47:42 it's a scary commitment because Jeff, you and I obviously couldn't never do anything like this. He's talking about it. I've mortgaged my home several times. But I mean that that tells you how much love he has, how much passion he has for this film. And I come completely and utterly respect that man, because if I was in his shoes, you can guarantee I would do something just like this, just a different time period, well, same time period, just a different area of America. So absolutely, I'm with Kevin Costner on this. I would have done the same damn thing. So kudos to you, Costner, and I really hope you succeeded this well. So here's the deal. We know this movie comes out what June twenty eighth, I think it initially was released. It's still playing in theaters. I think to date it's made about thirty million, which is critically low. So much so that you know, like we said, chapter two has been pulled from theatrical release. We don't know when we're getting it. We don't know if we're gonna I don't know what this does for chapters three and four because minunderstanding was that he was about to go into pre production to shoot them.

48:55 But I think part of it is, you know, can we can we talk about the Yellowstone controversy? Oh please, let's let's let's get try try and shed a little lighter because listen, I'm a big fan of Yellowstone, I know you are too. His character, John Dutton, one of the great television characters ever. Maybe the show is the show's amazing. Now we have to remember something because look, we've all been waiting for that final season at Yellows in a drop, and it's been a couple of years, and we're all upset. And you know, as you get upset, you're like, well, why haven't we got it? And who's to blame for it? Right? We got to remember, you know, Costner loses both his parents in twenty twenty one, yep, the writer's strike and actors strikes they hit in twenty twenty three. He's going through a divorce and despite all that, he's still trying to finish up his commitments to the show and you know, do some some prep for Horizon, and and I'll you know, ultimately, Costner has stated that his departure from Yellowstone was not due to the development of the Horizon films, but it was largely due to the fact that Yellowstone's final season has been restructured several times. You know, Taylor Sheridan has kind of the hit the reset button repeatedly, you know. Ultimately, now we know it's planning to be split into two separate parts, which I gotta tell

50:28 you something, I don't care how great a show is. Nothing bothers me more than when a studio or a showrunner decides to make the final season a two part season. Yeah, I can't stand that. Listen, if you're if season six is the last season and then you're gonna break it into two parts, just own it and call it season six and season seven. I can't. Breaking Bad is a prime example of a show that started this trend, I think. But now Cobra Kai is doing it, Yellowstone's trying to do it. I just think it's lazy. Think it's you know, it's just call it what it is. That's all. That's all I'm gonna say. Well, and here's here's the thing to Jeff, this is not all on Kevin Costner's shoulders that Yellowstone turned out the way Yellowstones turned out. Sheridan have too many, too many projects one at once, way too many projects.

51:16 I mean, dude, come on, now, well look at all at all all fairness, he the guy does nothing but hit home runs. Every one of his shows are amazing, Yes, but it also you have to wonder, you know, to your point of him having multiple projects going, you have to remember Yellowstone season five, there's been ongoing delays and there's a real lack of completed scripts, and Costner even mentioned this. He brought this up recently. He actually shared the fact that he allowed Sharedan to read the Horizon script, hoping it would kind of provide some inspiration to to like, where's it, where's the Yellowstone show going to go? Even offered to provide ideas on how to write his character at a Yellowstone, whether it's like, you know, hey, give me like some epic death scene, or give me a chance to come back and i'll i'll, you know, put me in prison, got whatever the case may be, yep, you know.

52:08 And as a last resort, because the you know, now we're in production on Horizon. As a last resort, he even offered to take time off of the production schedule to facilitate things, whether it be like an on screen death or whatever. And him and they just he just can't come to terms with Paramount and Sheridan like they don't want to. It seems like they didn't want to give him the appropriate time too to do what he wants to do. Also, right, So yeah, so everyone who's blaming Kevin cost on this, don't well, I'll be fair and say there's there's two sides to the argument. But I don't believe that we've heard Kevin Costner's side as loudly as we've heard Sheridan's side in Paramount's side. Yep. You know, I know, I know there was even like some backlash for this from this film people. You know I had I had a great conversation with this about with my friend Brandon, who uh who made some great points about you know, this is a perfect marriage, like we should be Costner. They should have figured this out to where Costner could be. We could be, we should be. We should be watching Yellowstone season five right now, and we should be flooded with Horizon trailers on the commercial breaks. It's it's a it's a marriage. It's a perfect marriage, and yet we don't have that.

53:24 Yeah, Yellowstone is hurting for it because let's be honest, how many years does a show take off before you you forget about it? Are you quit or you'd give up? Yeah, I've forgotten about it, Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. At this point, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna like re do the rewatch, Like, oh, season five is finally out, I'll start with season one and you know, binge watch my way up to it. Yep. But some people don't have that patience, and some people are just like, yeah, I'm done with it. I don't care. I don't care what happens now. Yeah, it just sucks because if there's if there's Yellowstone fans out there that are holding him accountable for Yellowstone and they're and they're saying, I don't I'm not gonna see Horizon, or I don't want it. I don't want I don't want to give that a chance because he should have been doing Yellowstone. Well, keep in mind, there's there's two sides to the story. That's all. That's all I'm saying about it.

54:09 Yep, well said Dave, you want to talk a little bit about Kevin Costner before we dive into his filmography, Sure, let's talk a little bit about him. I got I got some fun things here for you, Dave. You know, we we you know we've changed this up. You haven't been on a film by a whole lot because you've been busy on the Bridge of the Enterprise and you've been doing that. You've been celebrating the forty threeth anniversary, have a lot of films on a film at forty five. But now we're just kind of we're giving you a couple of fun tidbits about the director and maybe a fun quote if we can before we jump into the fhlmography. So listen to this, and this is this is something right out of the David Burns playbook. At the age of eighteen, Kevin Costner builds his own canoe and paddles his way down the same rivers that Lewis and Clark followed to the Pacific, recreating their journey. Wow, I was not doing something that awesome at so Kevin Costner was doing it. If you're wondering how he even got into acting, it was it was while working for a marketing firm. He has a chance meeting with legendary actor Richard Burton on a flight from Mexico. Burton encourages him to pursue acting, so he quits his job immediately moves to Hollywood, where he h he found He found work on a deep sea fishing boat. He was a truck driver for a short time, and then he was giving the bus tours to like the Stars homes, like the Map of the Stars type of thing. He's doing all that before landing

55:42 his first role in a soft core sex film. It's it's been rumored that Kevin Costner, how do I say this, should be proud of himself. Okay, So if you're wondering, like, how's how's he doing the soft corese sex movie, Well, you know, he's rumor has it, he's equipped. But afterward he did vow he would never do a film like that again. Six years later, he gets his big break in nineteen eighty three's The Big Chill, you know, which obviously his scenes are cut, most of them, most of them, most of them, but it was enough to make an impression on Lawrence Kazin, who who decides to use him in Silverado. Now, you know, any chance I get to talk about nineteen eighty six, of course I'm gonna do it. Of course, he turns down an unspecified role in nineteen eighty six's Platoon because he thought the script portrayed American soldiers in Vietnam negatively. And I think that's a fair Yeah, And he turns it down because he didn't want to insult his brother, who was a marine and a Vietnam veteran during that time. I respect that. I respect that. You know, Kevin Costner is no stranger to big movies opening to little to no fanfare. Yeah, and we're dealing with that. We're kind of dealing with that way right now with Horizon. But here's what he had to say. Here's what Here's a quote I found where he's talking about

57:15 opening opening weekend. He says, quote, the opening weekend is a hard one for me, especially when you take a lot of time with a movie. I don't know how it is with other people's movies. It's like you don't know how other people make love because you've only made love yourself, and so unless you've watched them, how do you know if you're doing it right. I know how I try to make a movie. I know how I lose sleep over it. I know how I deliberate for hours over the difference between saying she went over there or saying she's gone. And people will say, what's the difference, Kevin, Well, it's a big difference to me to find that exactly right line. And when you work hard on things like that, it's frustrating to me that a movie can be dismissed so easily.

58:01 These movies, for me, are like the same kind of pictures my mom put up on the refrigerator. I'm really proud of them, and if they get dismissed, and even though you're not eight years old anymore. It hurts. Wow, what I mean, that's quote. That's a guy that gives a damn as far as yes it is, and that's why we're doing this right now, right, Yeah, that's why we're That's why we had to jump into Horizon, you know, way before we should probably be talking about Horizon exactly. Yeah, but this film deserves the love and you can see that, man and that. I didn't really know how much of a passion Kevin Costner had until you know, you gave me. I mean, I knew how much he loved making movies, and I know how much how he loved directing because come on, Dancing with the Wolves, you name it, oh gosha. But when I hear that kind of quote coming from Kevin Costner, it reminds me of myself in you, Jeff, and how much we love and appreciate these movies and not just stuff that we make ourselves, but what other people make, because that's why we do this podcast. Right.

59:00 He absolutely does shot what these people do in making these movies to bring him to this and hopefully that we love them and we like them and we go see them. So wow, that was very impressive. Yeah, well, his I wish I could say his filmography is impressive. Uh, And what I mean is the length of it. Sadly, sadly it's very short, because we listen, he is still giving us dynamic performances. He's an amazing actor. I hope he continues to show himself on the silver screen. But I'm hoping he will make time for more more films for himself to direct, because be it small, it is, it is mighty. You already talked about dances with Dances with Wolves. He does that one in nineteen ninety.

59:45 That's his directory of de Wut Dave. We obviously did not cover that one, you know, being you know, it's not I wouldn't exactly call that underrated, but you know, but I had the pleasure to discuss Dances with Wolves on the docu based seventy seven podcast with Jo which I'm you, Hey, you were you got the invite? You were out of town, man, I went, what are we gonna say? But you know there, you know, let's let's be honest, like you you did have a nice interaction with one of its stars last year. Yeah, you want to remind the audience about that? So yeah, I mean we went to motor City coom right, yeah it was MotorCity, Okay, sure, yeah, Murti City com and good old beautiful Marry McDonald was there. And I've always been a big fan of hers and never thought I would have the opportunity to meet her. And of course we walk up to the table and I, you know, quietly or I don't know, I didn't know if you would hear me or not. When I told her how much how beautiful she was in person, you went full Lando Calrisian in that moment. You called her out on, you know, on how great she's looking. And I think she was a little smitten. I think she was because I didn't know what kind of reaction I was going to get from her, And apparently I got a good reaction because the rest of the day when we ran into her, she kind of remembered me for the rest of the day. Yeah you got, you got. You got more smiles from her than I did. So I was like, well, okay, absolutely, but yes, no, very talented. She had such a great uh you know, we had a chance

1:01:22 to listen to her speak about her her career, her films, uh, some of her you know, some of her beliefs, and some of some of the things that she's passionate about. Yeah, that was a fantastic Uh. That was fantastic opportunity to listen to her. Uh yeah. Hopefully we get to hopefully get to talk to her again and meet with her again at some point, but sure, hope. So Dances with Wolves one of the one of the greatest westerns of all time. If you, I know, some people are like, that's not a Western. I'm not. I think it is. I feel like it qualifies. You could go either way, Western, historical drama, or whatever it all fits in those bat bucket doesn't matter because ultimately it's it's just it's an incredible film. It is without question.

1:02:04 Nineteen ninety seven, he's back in the director's chair. He does a film that is not exactly that well received, and I have to believe that water World maybe maybe set this up for failure. Oh yeah, you know. And I should say that the using the word failures is not exactly accurate on my part because look, I look, I dig water World, my enjoy it. It's awesome. But I think everyone expected to make a billion dollars and when it didn't, they're like, oh wait, Kevin Costner's not superhuman. He will make a bomb here and there, which it's not. But The Postman in nineteen ninety seven, this is this is. This is Costner doing a Western that isn't a western, you know, and a lot of people don't even remember this one. This is I'll give you a quick synopsis. Nameless Drifter don's a Postman uniform and a bag of mail as he begins a quest to inspire hope to the survivors living in a post apocalyptic America.

1:03:07 Mm hm, I enjoyed that film. I don't remember it because there's been a wat since I've seen it, but I do enjoying it. I saw it in theaters. Yeah I did too. He must he's a fan of Will Patten, because I know I remember what we got in this one. Uh, but yeah, I don't. I never understood why this one didn't do the box office that that it that we I thought it should. Honestly, Will Patten was in Yellowstone Tube by the way. Yeah, Will Patten's everywhere he is. He's like, I like Will Patten. I do too. I like Will Patten Armageddon Oh yeah, oh before Yeah, I don't know how we got sidetracked there, but it's easy to do. Yeah, but back to The Postman. Yeah, I think this is one of those like you haven't seen it since it came out, and maybe you need to go back and watch it, watch it again. Maybe you're like, I don't remember? Did I like that one? Did I not like that one? How do you not like a post apocalyptic movie starring Tom Petty?

1:04:08 Right? Did you do you remember Tom Petty's in it? Right? Did he play the mayor? I think yeah, I don't know. Post Man in nineteen ninety seven. I'm ready for a rewatch on that one. I think me too. Now two thousand and three, Dave, you had not joined the film by crew at this point, but Brad and I covered open range. I want to say maybe in our in season two, if I remember, if I'm remembering that correctly. But man, this is one of my favorite This is one of my favorite westerns. Yeah, Costner, Robert Duval, Diego, Luna Man, and let's not forget uh, the very lovely and talented Annette Binning, who's just fantastic. Also, Yep, I don't know what I mean. I I don't know what else we could say that we didn't say on our Open Range episode. But you know, anything you want to add anything that you're your thoughts on open I mean, you guys did a really good job with that podcast. And for listeners, if you've not checked out the Open Range one, definitely go check that out with because we really can't add to what you two said about this film because it is really well done, beautifully shot, beautifully performed by everybody by the cast in this movie. So yeah, I really can't add to more what you guys said on that except for that it is a really good film. Yeah.

1:05:29 Well, we've been talking about Horizon and American Saga. Chapter one, Dave upcoming now he it's slated, you know, chapters two and three, I'm sorry, chapters three and four. I should say Chapter two is already finished. It's done, it's wrapped. Chapters three and four are what he's in production on. Yep. So I don't know how that's going to shake out. I'm here's my hope. My hope is that people give this a chance, especially now that's on the premium video and demand, you know, because there's a lot of people that are like, hey, three hours is a little too much for me to handle in a theater, right, But now that now I can watch it in the comfort of my own home, I'll pay twenty bucks to watch it. That's that's fine. My hope is that this kind of gets a resurgence, it grows in popularity on home media.

1:06:21 I'm hoping it maybe gets a limited re release around Christmas time for Oscar consideration, because we didn't really have a chance to talk about the performances in that light. But I kind of feel like there's there's some there's some there's some possibilities there which you agree there for sure. Yes, yeah, definitely potential for cinematography, for score, or for direction, on on. You know. So so for Monroe, for Debney, for Costner. I would hope that the Oscars, you know, there's a there's a there's a nomination coming up for him. That being said, he's gonna finish this. I think he'll finish it one way or another, because he did. I did see where he said. Look, once the fourth one is out, I'm going to recut it and I'm going to re release it as a mini series for television. Nice. So, I mean, I'm not waiting until that happens. I'll watch it when that happens. But my question to you, let's let's let's imagine a world war. Costner finishes Chapter four, maybe he works something out with Shardan PARAMOUNTA and finishes Yellowstone. What do you want to see? What do you want to see him do next? Because he's I kinda I kind of handcuffed you at the beginning. Yeah, you know, I said, hey, you can't pick a baseball movie, you can't pick a western, you know, because I just want to, you know, let's flex our costner performance muscles and what else has he done? What do you want to see next? Like, whether whether it's him directing or whether it's a role for them, what would you want to see Costner do?

1:07:50 I obviously he's probably gonna want to take a break from directing, to be honest with you, like that thinks, Yeah, after after making these four epic films, he's been one to be in something where he doesn't have to direct, He only has to perform or act. I don't know, some kind of biopic film I would think about whom I don't know, some kind of biography or something like that that he could portray a character, a famous person, in my opinion, is what I think would be the best for him, which I know he's Yeah, he played Jim Garrison already exactly all right, but he's so good at it, and he loves he loves history, so he's obviously wants to continue with that because you can see that in his uh, what he's done over the years. Hey, I love his I love his historical stuff. But I already told you I want to I want to follow up film for mister Brooks. Mister Brooks is not finished.

1:08:43 It would be good. I'm ready. I'm ready for more mister Brooks. Yeah, what if we got some kind of documentary from Kevin Costner about what? I don't know. Let's be honest. If he's going to do a documentary, more than likely it's going to be about the American West, gonna be about you know, history like that. But I feel like that that's kind of like that's a layup. That's too easy, it is. I don't know. There's there's so much out there he could do, but I mean, his passion and love is for American history. You can tell I'll tell you. I'll tell you what. Okay, I'll meet you. I'll meet you halfway. I read where he takes like two weeks off every year just for the College World Series. No hopes that his team makes it.

1:09:27 He's he's very passionate about college baseball. I'll watch a documentary. I'll watch a baseball documentary, whether it's about the minor leagues. You know, give me, give me Crash Davis, give me a making a documentary about the minor leagues. That'd be cool. I'd be I'd be up for that. Or you know, the college the college circuit. I'd be over with that too. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. Here's here's my question. I know you're going to recommend this to the listeners. Obviously, I am a love letter. This whole episode has been a love letter to Horizon and Kevin Coster. But my question to you is, we're done. We're wrapping things up right now. Are you gonna go buy it on Amazon or are you gonna wait and get like you get your hands on like a four K Blu ray.

1:10:09 So the four K Blu Ray has already been announced. It's coming out in September. So oh, I will be buying it in September. Thank you for that update, because I did not know that. So all right, I might well Okay, I do want to see it again. Yeah, I'm gonna I'll probaly see it later this week and uh and watch it on the theater on the on the big screen one more time. That'll hold be over till September, I think, And then I'm absolutely I'm with you. I'm buying the four k Blu ray listeners. What do you think of Horizon and American Saga Chapter one? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a film by podcast dot com for all of our episodes streaming free on the platform of your choice. Everything that we got is there. You can always write to us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, coming and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some swag. Please join us tomorrow for our Star Trek theme series, Phasers Set the Stun, Wayne, David and Scott are continuing their conversation about all things Trek. Dave, what do you got? What do you guys? What are you guys doing tomorrow? A little thing, but yeah, absolutely, we got a little thing called Trek Expectations, Jeff, where we're going to be talking about the future of Star Trek, the few like the cinema, streaming, you name it, what shows are on the horizon, what shows have been rumored. That's what we're gonna be discussed fight tomorrow.

1:11:34 I see what you did their Trek expectations, your your Trek spectation. Okay, I like that. Yeah. Friday, our limited series nineteen ninety six returns with Jason Colvin from the Shirley You Can't Be Serious Podcast. We'll be taking a look at the Dark side of Nature. Just happens to be the opening day for Twisters, so obviously we're gonna talk about nineteen ninety six is Twister, of course. For those of you out there following, subscribing, hitting the like buttons, following us on Patreon with your free membership or your tiered membership, we thank you.