Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek Insurrection

0:01 Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage and debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello, listeners, and welcome to a new episode of Phasers Set to Stun, where we continue to show our love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every system of the expanding Star Trek universe by covering television, movies, animation, directors, merchandise, and so much more. Flooding your course on this voyage is your Core Truk crew. I'm Wayne Whiten, I'm.

1:05 David Burnef, and I'm Scott Hoffn. And today we're warping back to the late nineteen nineties December eleventh, nineteen ninety eight to be exact, and taking a close and detailed look at the ninth entry into the Star Trek film franchise, Star Trek Insurrection. This is the third film to start the next Generation cast and was written by Rick Berman and Michael Pillar and directed once again by Jonathan Franks. Scott why don't You Give us a short summary of the film to remind us sure. So, the Federation is about to cross the line that the Enterprise crew is unwilling to cross, and the result is an insurrection. We find ourselves on the paradise planet of the Baku, which is an undiscovered garden of Eden that grants its inhabitants eternal youth thanks to an orbiting ring of metaphysic particles. While their advanced society has warp capabilities, they simply have no interest or need in anything beyond enjoying every moment on their planet, and rightly so. However, another group aligned with the Federation that calls themselves the Sona, have much more selfish plans in mind. They plan to forcibly relocate the Baku so they can steal the rejuvenating metaphasic particles with a process that would ravage the planet and ruin their paradise. When Picard learns of this plot, he defies his orders and takes a stand to save the Baku. It's a movie that finds the Federation thinking twice about their decisions, then gives the crew some unexpected gifts along the way. Although it's not everyone's favorite star Trek movie. It's an important entry in the Next Generation saga.

2:35 Well, you know, after a First Contact was a critical and financial success, Paramount wanted to change things around, and you know, they asked for this new film to be lighter in tone, you know, similar to what they had gotten with the Star Trek four Voyage Home. This time they asked Michael Pillar, the creator and the showrunner of Star Trek de Space nine, to write the scripts. Let's start with David, what did you think? What was your initial opinions on Star Trek Insurrection. So, after coming off of First Contact and we get this, to be honest with you, I was let down by this film. I know now twenty years later, I love it. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's the third best of the Next Generation films. But to be honest with you, it really felt like a At times it felt like a TV episode, especially the way it opens and begins. We have these great openings that we have with Generations. We have this great opening with First Contact with the music and the title credits and stuff like that, and then we get this very feels like tady TV mini series opening with Insurrection.

3:42 Again. Don't get me wrong, I like this movie. I just felt it did not live up to where we had with First Contact. I feel like I had a little bit of disagreement here. Well it might be it might be a disagreement. However, I'm on with Dave. I feel like this is one that had to kind of grow on me. I'm pretty sure I saw this in the theaters because I would have been really excited for it, but I remember feeling kind of let down by it for those same kind of reasons. I feel like Randall from Clerks too would probably have hated this movie because it's got so much walking. It feels like Star Trek in the Shire meets the Hobbit.

4:23 You know, there's a lot of like easier paced kind of things, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it feels like in this era of Star Trek, maybe there was an expectation that there was going to be more action, I feel like, you know, with First Contact. But also I feel like around this time, Deep Space nine was getting into a little bit more of the dominion or kind of ideas. So there's kind of that tone set of an action move to expect when you're looking at cinematic Star Trek. It doesn't have to be that way, and I think there's good decisions they made with this, but yeah, at first, it just kind of fell flaut, like, Okay, I saw an episode Wayne, what about you?

5:05 Yeah, well, you know, I do agree with with both of you on a few of those points. It did feel like an extended TV series episode. And I know a lot of people said that. I personally don't find that a problem though, just because after First Contact, and of course First Contact is always going to be my favorite of the next generation films. I actually put this one as second, but because you know it star Trek. First Contact was was an incredible film. It was also very heavy film, you know, with with the Borg, very confined, very dramatic, intense that I like just the light heartedness and the open, you know look of this film, and I think the cast are just phenomenal in it, you know, they there's some great dialogue.

6:00 I do agree, though, and I think this is one of the reasons to why I like it. It's the wrong reason, but I think this film is a great example of style over substance. It looks fantastic, it sounds fantastic, but the script isn't quite up to what it could be, but I still really like it. Yeah. No, I mean there's elements of this movie that I really really enjoy and they felt very cinematic at times. So I mean, I don't want to say I don't want to tell the film completely apart because I did like it, and there's a lot of stuff that I found humorous. You got the chemistry again with the cast that is perfect and spot on everywhere, and you know, we get the Riker maneuver, which I absolutely love. It's one of my favorite scenes in the entire movie. But the one thing it desperately missed out on is industrial light and magic.

6:53 Yeah. I know that they were super busy. They were working on The Phantom Menace and something else I believe, so couldn't do this film. Granted, there are something that look really good cgi wise, but there are other things you're like, you're kind of cringey at times, and you're like, this is almost stuff we would have seen in an episode. And again I'm not putting down episodes, you know, because of budget reasons and stuff like that, they did a really fantastic job, but for a cinematic piece, they could have done a lot better a job here and I felt that really pulled me out of film at times. But speaking of visual effects, you know, they were You're right about IO, I'm not being able to do it. But the company that did work on it was a company called Blue Sky and also a Santa Barbara Studios, and they're no small companies.

7:35 They worked on some really big films. Blue Sky worked on Blade and also did Armageddon very recently before this, and they helped out. They did the first season of Star Trek Enterprise, which I can see that because the visual effects are pretty similar now looking at it. And you know, Santa Barbara Studios worked on Generations. They're the ones that did the bottle through space that crashed on the Enterprise D at the beginning that the titles sequence, plus they did the title sequences for or the CGI elements of the title sequences for Deep Space nine and Voyager. But yeah, well I think a lot of it too is this was the first film that was almost entirely done CGI and at the point in time that was rather.

8:19 Odd for us. And it looks still very early, I mean really was still very early in CGI. I mean, look what they can do today. But they did a decent job. Yeah, I mean, it's it's tough when it's kind of written large up on the big screen, right. I think when I'm watching it, it's not like any of the downsides to the CGI are really so apparent because I'm either watching it on my phone or I'm watching it on the television. Some of the elements that felt odd to me CGI wise were the death of Dougherty and the Lost in Space pet that the kid was carrying around the little lobby whatever that was.

9:01 That thing was. It's funny you mentioned that because you know, I think Lost in Space was the same year, and the visual effects are weren't that great in that film? Oh my, when you look at those two, it's like a visual effects masterpiece. But I will give them credit. They made a lot of advances in how they were handling the effects, and I think I think things like the death of the Dierity it seems a little odd because it just seems like somebody's applying a stretching effect, like when I'm always kind of stretching out its like, but it gets the idea cross it does what it's supposed to do. Having the tiny little hamster pet. It serves the function of the little hamster pet. I think it's probably just having a little hamster pet is what's kind of bothering me, right, that it's one of those like cuddles, No, I have to go back and save my pet hamster. That's admirable and in the in the mind of a kid, that probably makes perfect sense, but come on, man it okay. So yeah, I think it probably could have benefited from a little bit more ILM flair.

10:12 But I think in general, a lot of it is just the the villains that we have don't seem very menacing. They have a very nefarious plot that has somehow you know, dazzled the Federation to just go along with their plans without understanding the science. Well I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point. Yeah, a lot of that too was because and I don't think this Spike team as clear as it should have been in the film. You know, the Federation or Starfleet was in the middle, I mean really smack in the middle of the Dominion War and were short on supply, short on ships, short on people. I mean they took a lot of death and destruction if you remember on Deep Space nine. So they were and I'm not saying it's right because it's not. I mean, obviously that's part of the storyline, but you know, they were willing to overlook some of the bad stuff about the sauna, and I just don't think that came off very clear other than I think what was one or two lines it was mentioned about it was.

11:12 Mentioned that was about it blown over. Which is an interesting point, Wayne, because it is in Deep Space nine when they are in the Dominion War and obviously we see the repercussions of one of their more questionable decisions in Piccard season three, So it is right around that time when it's like the Federation isn't necessarily always perfect, and sometimes they're not even very federation like overlooking the prime directive and just saying we don't know how it works. We just trust that it does. No, you don't, not if you're a science based organization. But you know that desperation is you know, maybe an element of it. And you know, a time when we're seeing you know, the heroes like Piccard saying that that's not the federation they believe.

11:57 In, and you know, speaking of all of this too, you know, we saw everything that was happening on Deep Space sign and how devastating it was to Starfleet and the Federation, and it makes you wonder, you know, what was the Enterprise doing during this war? And we got this and it doesn't look like they're doing anything. I mean, it is Starfleet keeping them out, you know, off to the side, and why, you know, why are they doing this mission? What you know, why aren't they there at the front lines? And it's none of that's answer ever. Yeah, they did a really poor job of that. I'll definitely agree with that. Well, maybe there is a lot of technological importance assigned to the utene chef Ah species that they were willing with chrysanthemums and balsamac vinigarette. That's right. It does seem kind of odd, and that they'd be able to pull Wharf out of his station where he is now talking about like, you know, the importance of that. It seems like he would be critically important to be there.

13:01 Yeah, he would. Speaking of that scene too, which I kind of like the opening scene. I like the dialogue that was written. But we got the debut of those new sharp starflee dress uniforms, the white, the white. Yeah, you know, what do you guys think about those? I I personally loved him. I did too. I thought that was a nice new touch. And then they really stood out and looked good. And absolutely a lot better than the dress uniform the dress uniform dresses that they had in generation. But they came a long way, that's for sure. Well, and I think Picard did a good job of handling the bejeweled lumber bund that they had to be in his head like just like, okay, I put this out of my head.

13:47 Sure, Yeah. I like when he was like he was motioning for the crewman to come out and all he did tell the chef to skip the fish course. Yeah, I do feel like it's it's a little interesting. We're into our our third movie with Data in it. It is starting to feel like a lot of these scripts start with we open on Data malfunctioning. Well, that was a lot of episodes do, wasn't it. They would have learned their lesson by this point. I mean, when when they found out Data had something had happened with Data, I wouldn't expecting like the roll the rise of like God, here we go again. Yeah, Well, isn't there even a line when they're like is it his emotion ship and He's like, no, he left it behind this time, and I was like, okay, well, probably a good idea, but also he can do that, like are the missions where he's just like, I don't really need to feel in anything on this one. I'm just gonna put it in the cupboard. Good for him.

14:45 And you know this, this is also the second time we've seen these like duck blinds that Starfleet have to observed planets, and I don't know, I just don't like that. It seems so creepy, you know, them them the idea of the Starfleet and the it's like spying or eyeballing all these planets and stuff. I didn't like it the first time. I'm trying to remember the name of the episode was Who Watches the Watchers or. Something like that. Yeah, something like that. It didn't go very well there, and it doesn't go very well here. They need to stop that, I agree. Speaking of which, and that's interesting, I didn't think of this until you just mentioned it. But is it the Treaty of Algernon that makes it so they can't use cloaking technology?

15:27 Yes, I believe I believe that is. Yeah, so there's twice in this episode that they technically violate that or is it only apply it to ships. Only ships apparently? Well, yeah, yeah, you know, of course if you remember from d Space nine too, that's uh you know, they were allied with the Romulans during the war and they were kind of a little uh lax with that that law or that rule because remember the Defiant had the cloaking device too, So I. Don't yeahs like maybe after this mission they just underlined certain parts of that treaty to say this is why. Because it's super creepy. Yeah, and people can use it to just abduct people in the blink of an eye and ID even tell them that they're gone. That seems ultra creepy.

16:17 I did have one major problem with this film that I just can't let it go. I do not like a bidless Wriker. You're like Troy, Yeah, you say, yes, now there are you. It was different when during the first season of TNG, but seeing him now, what's twenty or no ten years later now now? Yeah, No. I did love the chemistry between Danna and him. Yes, I love the playfulness, the romance and stuff that was going on. You know, when they were sitting there doing the research and she's like rubbing the back of his neck. And I loved all of that, and you're finally seeing that connection between the two of them really start to grow. Obviously we know where it's going to end up between the two of them, but I like that a lot. I thought that was probably some of the best part of this film.

17:06 Oh, I agree. I agree. You know, it's something we all wanted we never really got much in the series. I was glad that they were heading in that direction well. And the timing of it is really well done because we have that happening before they get to the planet, so it's not just a byproduct of the of the metaphysic particles or whatever, right, And he even acknowledges that in the line to say, like, do you think we're still going to feel the same way even after we leave? And I think it's a great touch to have Wharf kind of give him that reassuring line where he's like, come on, you guys have been close before this. It's not the particles, Like go for it. Considering that he had the relationship with Troy and if this is happening at the time relative to Deep Space nine when he had just lost Jad Zia. He'd be going through a tough time, so good job for good job on worth doing that, Dave. I understand what you meaning. It's just weird to see them without a beard, really strange.

18:10 I remember seeing that the theaters when that happened. Oh no, we're going backwards. No, no, at least gotta on that light about smooth as and androids. But and then Data goes there and rubs it. I love that they changed the script. I guess there was a line that Data was supposed to say. And I think if it was Brent Spinder that had any kind of influence on that scene to just make it a nonverbal just to like shake his head and be like, M not quite. Yeah. You know, there were a lot of deleted scenes for this film. You know, many of them can be found on the film's Blu ray and DVD release. But I want to mention, and I brought this up a couple weeks ago to YouTube, but I'll tell the listeners there was one scene that we actually filmed that, you know, I wish that they would have kept in the film, And it takes place at the end of the film after the Sona have been defeated and Picard and the Enterprise Coup are saying their goodbyes on the planet and Quark from Deep Space Nine appears on the planet. He's fully decked out in a fringy swimsuit looking to sell at vacation time time shares on the planet. You know, he gets into an argument with Picard and the card orders Wharf to drag him back to Deep Space nine with him. This was fully shot and cut laid into the stages of the editing, but you can still find pictures the footage. I have not been able to find it all. I don't think it's available, but it's a really funny scene. I wish they would have kept that in the film because it would have made a very nice little cap at the end of the film.

19:39 I would have seen that. Well, I think it's a smart idea to talk about, so what happens to this planet afterward, because it is a fountain of youth, right, and it's not necessary to, you know, disrupt the buck Who's life by having a bunch of vacationers that are looking for rise to two point zero or whatever. But you know, commercially, I'm sure the FERINGI probably could have helped to regulate how to you know, once people know about that planet, how to how to use it in various ways. Like you mentioned the Dominion where that was going on at this time and having so many injuries and so many casualties and things like that. Seeing what happened with Jordi, it seems like medically there'd be a lot of positive applications, not needing to move the particles at all, but just have like a hospital set up on that planet.

20:34 Yeah, it would be a good idea, but I think I think the big worry is there would be a lot of races, a lot of planets that were looking to exploit, oh, absolutely exploiting image. You know, you're just thinking about you know, you know, like the Romulans, maybe the Klingons, definitely the Feringi. You know, I think they're just wanting to try to stop that. But you know, we never hear about the what happens to a lot of these planets afterwards. No, you know, they're going to have to probably protect this planet now, the Federation is going to have to protect it and keep watch over it. Yeah, although after the events of this, they probably were like, you know, thank you so much. Picard and crew for you know, helping us out. Oh, no problem. So can we set up like some kind of Federation hospital here? No, we don't like the federation.

21:17 Get out, get out. Thanks so much to get out? Right? What do you guys think about finally using the Captain jod? Finally? Yes, that's the word. Finally. You know, it's been there, It's always been there, you know, on all the ships, well at least the Enterprise D. But because you remember, I remember, you could you could buy the model all the way back, like back to eighty seven. You could buy the model and it would come off of it. But we never ever saw it on the TV show. Nope, never. It was a time. It was a cool little ship, Yeah it was. And it came in handy for the the what a needy? Yeah, all right, we'll take a short break and then we'll come back and talk more about Star Trek Insurrection.

21:59 All right, we're back, and I want to bring up let's talk about the ending of the film. I mean, how do you guys think this film ended? Are you happy with the ending? Do you think it didn't work? What's your well? I mean it ended with a happy one. You know, you know, they're getting to say goodbye. One thing, I have to admit, it'd be tough for me to leave, honestly. You know that the fact that you can pretty much get to live for I don't know how long forever, who knows. And I mean making that decision. And you know, once again the cards, like James Bond, he finds romance no matter where he goes, and you know, leaving that behind. I like the child instance too of Data.

22:43 You know, him and the kid playing and then the hay there at the end and then he's sick. I gotta go home now, you know. So I did like that, and you know the crew basically to the seven of them and then just beating up part of the enterprise and leaving and just that's where we end. I thought it was created for this film. Scott, Yeah, I think there was. In terms of Data playing with the kid. I think there's that semi cringey, almost phantom menacy line where the kid goes, hey, Data, just remember trying to kid every day. It's like, did you have to say that? But no, I think I think it ended the right way. It did seem like the you know Captain Picard swing to the rescue in a tank top having the battle scene seemed a little odd where it happened. It was almost like they forgot to put in a you know, an action sequence and did that.

23:41 Well, that's that's exactly what happened. Yeah, that really, that really is is exactly what happened, because they had shot a different ending to the one that we ultimately got, so but the studio and the test screenings they felt it was a little a little too soft, a little too confusing. Yeah, yeah, you know, in its card, he manages to disable the collector, but Ralfo escapes in his in a small pod and he injects into the rings, but then he's bombarded with the particles and starts reversing an age to the point where he just disappears. Yeah, and that's it. And people people were confused, you know, did he die, did he not die? What happened to him? They felt that there just wasn't enough action. So that's why all that's put in there. And it feels you're right, I mean, you hit exactly how I feel when it comes to the ending, is it feels like that there's the action is tacked in there. I don't know whether I prefer the original ending or this new one. You know, it just it doesn't feel right to me.

24:46 But did you guys feel though that whole fight at the end felt like we were treading ground again from Generations? Yes, yes, in first contact. Yeah, it really felt like that all over again in my opinion. You know, him working on the you know, just as he did in Generations, you know, getting it to stop the timer, you know, those kind of things. It felt like we had already done that. So I remember when I first fall the thing in theater and that was happening. I'm like, we're having the same ending as Generations, you know, the same kind of fight going on here. I felt cheated with that. Yeah, you're right, And I mean that's straight down to the writing the script. I don't even think they realized what they were doing. That they were they were copying pretty much what had happened before.

25:31 It's a pity that they did that. Yeah, I'm glad we didn't get the other ending, not necessarily because it feels soft, just because I found the Sona to be kind of disturbing with all the skin stretching and all this other you stuff. So imagine seeing that deaged. I mean, I guess the Staples would still be there, but that'd be kind of disturbing. Like, well, now let's talk. Do either one of you remember where you saw this first? No, I no, No, I remember seeing in the theater, but I don't remember what theater it was. No, I don't. Yeah, for me, it was probably an East Skater two seventy five cinema kind of thing. Yeah, there's not a lot of memories about us standout. What about you.

26:17 I do have a memory because I went and saw this film like I did with probably the last four before this. I saw this with my mom and we saw it in the theater that used to be in the Dayton Mall. It's not there anymore, but I remember it very clearly because we were walking out. I think this is the first time she has ever said that she liked anything Star Trek all right, she was never a fan. I don't think. I don't think I saw it with you, David, which is odd because we were seeing a lot. Of films at that time. Yeah, but so I don't think. I don't think we went and saw that. I know we saw Nemesis together. We did, but we didn't see Insurrection together. No. That's always a cool moment we have a you know, I guess what a convert.

27:00 That's going to say, yeah, Well, I don't know if I call our convert because wait until we talk about Nemesis, and then I tell. You, yes, that temporary, temporary. But when you get somebody to recognize, like you know, there is something probably for everyone in Star Trek, and when you get to have a moment where you're sharing it with somebody that you care about and they see what you have been seeing, that's a that's a cool moment. I'm glad you had that. Yeah, me doing yeah. And you know the well, all the films, all the film's first contact was the same way. You know, the producers have in their mind they need to make a film that kind of hits with all different types of audience. It's not just Star Trek fans, not people who are familiar with the show. You know, I think this film actually succeeded in that. I think they succeeded in that.

27:48 I'm not saying they succeeded as a good film, but you know, it hit A lot of people came out and like the film. It's it's really if you read about it. The opinion on this film is fifty to fifty. I can see that. I do. And like I said, I don't hate this film. I just have problems with it, that's all. I still enjoyed it. Yeah, And in addition to having a script that is probably going to be able to reach a broader audience, I feel like we also really had a pretty strong cast in this film. Oh yeah, let's talk about the cast. Yeah, so I'm glad that we got a lot of the regulars back, but you have some some big names stepping into these roles. F Murray Abraham as Rofu. I was happy to hear that this is one of his favorite roles.

28:36 Apparently that's surprising considering the career he's had. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you would think Amadeus would be. But anyway, Yeah, an Academy Award for that exactly. But he did play a really good villain in this you know, even though there's kind of mixed reviews on that of the villain's not really you know, a powerful villain that we're used to instead Star Trek World, I still think he did a. Fantastic job in this movie. Yeah, he played in Intelligent and he you know, he was ahead of ahead of everybody at all times pretty much. So I enjoyed that a lot out of those performance. I always remember when I saw the trailer, that scream he gives when he realized he's been tricked.

29:18 I love that scream. As soon as it happened again, I'm like, yes, that's yeah. I thought Murray Abraham did awesome in this movie. Yeah, I agree. You know, Star Trek doesn't have many, you know, villains like this. You know, you got con, you got the Board Queen, and but when we do get these characters, they're they're fantastic, and he's a great example. He's a good actor. Anyways. Oh yeah, yes, yeah, I feel like Dave, I'm on the other side with with you on this one. His laugh. I feel like it's in character because it's, you know, thinking about this faction of the Sona as being you know, selfish and and kind of immature motivations behind their you know, what they're wanting to do. And the two times when I hear the scream, it sounds like an angry cat.

30:09 Like to me, it was just like what is happening? You know? But yeah, I almost feel like I almost felt like the scream though, was like you know, I mean look at his face, and it was almost like a reflection of how he's feeling. Like that skin being pulled in something like that could not have felt great, right, But I feel like that that scream was kind of a you know, of all of that going on, and that's why the scream beemed awkward in my opinion. Yes, yes, well, it's a great point to have somebody who's skin, especially his forehead, is basically turned into overcooked parchment paper. It's just ripping. Yeah, and maybe back off on the skin stretches like. A little bit.

30:49 You're not You're not getting any closer to the cover of a magazine with all that stretching. It's just not doing it right. Then we got our other main guest star on this movie is Donna Murphy Angie. You know, she's she's a two times with Tony Award winner. She's done a lot of stuff too, I remember remember, and she was Doctor Octopus's wife and Spider Man two. I just discovered that when I was looking at it up and I'm like, yeah, same person. Yeah, she she did a great job. You know, It's it's hard giving the card a love interest.

31:30 I mean, really didn't do too much of that on TV show. I just other than like Bosh, but I think she had some chemistry with with Patrick Stewart. It came across really well. And then of course, you know there's our third guest star, Anthony Derby as Vice Admiral. What do you think about him? I think he did a great job. I think it's like it stands out in my head every time he says Dougherty out. He has a very distinct voice he does. You can tell that it was somebody who was acting on Federation orders, but you know that he had a little bit of reservation about it. M hm. He understands the importance of doing so, he believes in doing so, apparently because he's leading this whole thing, but you can see that there's some doubt there. So I think that was well.

32:16 Played and it even came off at times it felt like he was performing in a way that he was in on it, but he wasn't, you know what I mean. It felt like that at times that he was in on it, but then then he wasn't. Then he was just doing something for the Federation. And then he realized, you know, between all his interactions with the card which were some of the really. Best scenes in this movie between those two. Then you realized, oh, wow, he really isn't in on this, and you kind of feel bad for him, But then you don't because you got you're just an idiot man. Well, that goes with most of the admirals start for I don't know where they get there, they're hiring at I guess you have to just be an idiot to be promoted and Starfleet.

32:57 Apparently well way now is interesting to learn that villainy runs in his family because his sister in real life actor Anthony's Derby. His sister in law is Salom Jens Oh. I didn't know that, who is. The main female changeling founder in Deep Space nine. Yeah, also learned a little interesting tidbit about one of the extra crew members that was returning for this. One, Michael Horton as Lieutenant Daniels. Apparently he did some interesting voice ever work throughout his career, including a voice on the eighties Transformers series. He was Spike's technical wiz kid and friend Chip Chip.

33:49 Of course I didn't know that either, well, but. It was nice to see, you know, a recurring character that hasn't been established in Next Generation but is still a connective thread through the It's good to see faces come. Back with that. It's nice to have that bridge cup people pop up every now and then that you get used to us. Yes, I agree with you, Scott. That's a nice touch for that. Yeah, definitely. All right. Now let's twist the story a bit, look into another dimension with what if, where we discussed the things that might have been Scott, you want to start us with this one? Yeah, so you would already mentioned two of the big ones, the alternate ending of deaging, RUAFU and Quarks deleted scenes.

34:30 There was another one I thought was kind of interesting. There was some dialogue that was cut from the library scene between Riiker and Troy where they get into other motivations of the Sona, revealing that they apparently what they were going through, the toxins, the genetic modifications and whatnot, meant that they couldn't procreate. Now, I'm pretty sure there's probably another reason they're not procreating. And yeah, probably the whole skin stretching. Yeah, I don't know. They were really winning a lot of awards there, but. It makes you wonder why their skin they're stretching. No, no, no, that's why they were so angry. That's why he was yelling like a cat, Like stop stretching. Anyway, it seemed like it was interesting because it seemed like it tried to give them a little bit more than vanity, that it was a little bit more about trying to advance their race. But at the same time, it's like, but you're trying to undo it by, you know, killing where you came from. Like why they didn't just try to go back, I don't know. It just didn't make sense to me. But you know what about you win?

35:41 Well, you know, this script, like like all the others, went through a lot of drafts to get to where we got. I always found the first draft to be rather interesting one that they wrote. But their first idea was the film that they were going to call Star Trek's Stardust a horrible, horrible name but ikes. But it featured Picard resigning from Starfleet after he sent to retrieve a population and their youth giving power and bringing them to the Romulins, and also had Picard being betrayed by a colleague of his. It's not too far off from what we got in the final film, And they really wanted to squeeze the Romulins in here, because they've never been a film that featured the Romulents at this point.

36:25 And they also, I. Know Berman had had them do a rewrite so that the colleague would be Data. I don't know if I liked the idea of Data betraying the card. I hope that that would be like undone at the end there. And then they went, you know, in that second draft too, it showed up that Picard had killed Data early in the film and then had to reactivate him to save the Federation from the from the Romulins. The studio hated that script, thank god, told again to start all over. And then the third draft that they did got rid of the romulin and it's really close to what we got now. But you know, this included the Troy Reiker romance, the regeneration of la Forde's eye la Forge's eyes, and but also had a major part for Lieutenant Barkley that I wouldn't mind have seen. And they wanted to include a drift. Draft you mentioned it earlier, included quite a few mentions of jed z as Dex's death and the emotional impact it had for Wharf. But uh Rick Berman veto Decks were afraid that all those references to D Space nine would kind of alienate the average viewer. Yeah, that this film went through so many different names. Uh, before it got to Insurrection and it was Prime Directive.

37:44 Then it was the Enemy Within, then it was Forever, and for a long time it was called Star Trek's Sacred Honor. The studio needed that one, veto that one because they said it sounded too religious. Yeah, I'm still stuck on Stardust and how terrible that. Could you imagine? You could you imagine we're here today talking about Star Trek's Stardusk. No thank you, you know, to even go off of what you were talking about about data killing, I mean the card killing data Brent Spiner wanted to be killed off because he felt he was getting. Too old for the role of data. But apparently Stewart is the one who kind of vetoed that idea, and he sent a. Script to Brent Spiner and it's a better lut Nix.

38:29 Of course they would, you know, next film they would succeed in doing that. But oh yeah, all right now. Of course we can't talk about a Star Trek film without going into an in depth discussion about its musical score. Returning for his second film in a row and his fourth Star Trek film, is composer Jerry Goldsmith, who I now is becoming the sound of Star Trek and definitely the sound of the next generation. Here he's expanding on his template that he created with the First Contact, starting out with a new opening theme and a much softer and lighter score than last time. David, what do you think about Goldsmith's insurrection score? So you've hit the nail on the head there about the beginning there.

39:13 It started to get elements of First Contact, but then it doesn't go there. You got a very gentle score to open up the film, and it gets a little powerful at times, but doesn't go, you know, to that higher level that you got. From First Contact. But it was very enjoyable. It matched the film and the opening of this film beautifully, I thought. And the music was there, but it never gotten in the way of the film. And I'm never gonna say music gets in the way of the film, Don't get me wrong, because Wayne, you know how much I love scores. Oh definitely, But. I felt like it blended so well with the movie through the whole thing that you almost forgot it was there, but you knew it was there because it helped pull you into the story in what was going on. So I felt Goldsmith did a fantastic job there because it didn't stand out, it felt natural to the film.

40:03 So I thought it was perfect. Yep, Scott, what about you? Yeah, I thought it was very well done and very fitting for the tone and the pace of the movie. I was interested to learn that the original soundtrack wasn't as complete as the fans wanted. No, there was an expanded bootleg version for the longest time, Yeah, until twenty thirteen when they finally put out something that would make that original bootleg no longer necessary. That shows a lot of the dedication and the love to Jerry Goldsmith and Lewis scores for these movies. Yep, Yeah, I love the score of this film. And all even goes further and say that of his three star trek TNG scores that he did for the films, this is my favorite of the three. You know, every decade that Goldsmith worked, he'd like reinvented sound. The style that he would do, you know, the eighties was very action packed. You know, he had Rambo, he experimented with electronic scores like Hoosier's, and then here in the nineties he was taking a softer and more thematic approach, you know, which makes you know, Insurrection just screams Jerry Goldsmith in the nineties to me, and I love his music in the nineties. You know, this score in particular is very very similar to another score that he did that same year, in nineteen ninety eight, Disney's film Mulan, which is beautiful, beautiful to the great score, and you know, it's very similar in the instruments and styles that he used, you know,

41:36 plus his themes for the sona and for the early scenes where they're watching the planet from the duct line remind me a lot of his film, an earlier film he did called Capricorn One. I've seen this mentioned by other people, but I absolutely agree, you know, his use of piano and his hard percussion and all the blasting brass. You know, I listened to this earlier today to kind of refresh my memory, and I still stand by it. This, in my opinion, is is his best score of the nineties, and and definitely in in the top twenty in my mind of his best scores. You know, as you mentioned. You know, the soundtrack is still out there. Guy, people, if you want, you want to buy it, you can buy both versions of it. You know, there's there's the original version, there's the complete version.

42:19 You know. I want to quickly add, you know, thanks to Paramount themselves, we got the complete scores to all thirteen Star Trek films. Now that you know, they specifically put in order saying these have to be released and as a soundtrack nut, I want to say thank you Paramount. For doing that. You mentioned the whole thematic thing. This movie was ninety eight. One of my favorite scors of bild Smith was in ninety five, and that. Was First Night. Yes, you talk about thematic sure that he did in the nineties, that one stands out above all in my opinion. Now I get them side tracked, but yes, it quickly reminded me of First Night from the nineties. No, you're you're right, Yeah, that that is a fantastic score and it's again it is a good example of how he takes and writes themes and uses it throughout the throughout the score, just like a different insurrection.

43:06 Yep. Absolutely, Well, let's take another break and then we'll be back to finish this off on our talk about Star Trek Insurrection. We're back again and now we're going to talk about our personal favorite moments in the film. You know, we've discussed both the film itself and the behind the scenes, so now let's look at what we liked about Star Trek Insurrection. Scott, I'll let you start off with your favorite. I'd have to say one of my favorite moments. There's another one I'll talk about soon when we get into you know, who would you be in the movie. But when Riker and Jordie are talking about what they need to do with ejecting the core, and Riker saying majority, all right, eject the cord, He's like, I just did, like he does it just knowing that it's what to do without even have to ask permission. And then that kind of you know that Riker gives you know, you can see how well this crew really works together.

44:06 That was a great moment. I remember that vividly and I just laughed at that was like, oh man, the chemistry right there between the characters is phenomenal right there, because that's how it would work when you know each other and you work with the from the years. Of course, For me, my absolutely favorite mode of this entire film is LaForge getting to see a sunrise. Oh yeah, because he mentioned that, I believe with that first season, Yeah, and then Naked and now I believe it was where he mentioned that he would be a love to be able to see a sunset or a rainbow or something like that, I remember correctly. And the fact that. His eyes had healed back on this planet and he got to stand there and watch the sunrise.

44:47 I thought that was phenomenal. It was such great character development for Jority of the Forge, who deserved of all the years he's been through this, he deserved that moment and he got it. An insurrection, that's by far my favorite. And what about you, Oh mine's when Dad asked Wharf if he'd noticed his boobs perking up. No, seriously, I think the scenes that are in the mountains where the crew are evacuating the Baku are just absolutely incredible, very epic, especially for Star Trek. You know, after we got First Contact, very confined film mostly taking place on the Enterprise and then the Bozeman village, we get this epic scope of the mountain setting. You know, I gotta give credit to the film cinematographer was Matthew Leonetti, because from beginning to end, this has got some beautiful shots.

45:42 The whole thing is just beautifully filmed. You know. He's one of the best in the business. You know, he worked on Steven Spielberg's Polder guyst He worked on Fast Time at Ridgemon Hyde Commando Strange Days. You know, that battle too. With with the Sona Probes is like the centerpiece of the film. It's so well shot at it very exciting, you know. And then of course I mentioned my love for the score, and I love the piece of music that's playing with Just. Like you said, David, it merges perfectly with what you see on screen, and this is a great example right there. Absolutely all right, Now, let's see who we would like to be in the film, David, what about you?

46:24 You know, as much as I love this character, I've mentioned him so many times since we've talked about the Next Generation, even not on the podcast, I absolutely love Commander Riker and I want to be Commander Riker in this film for the mere fact he finally gets that connection with Deanna Troy and the whole bathtub scene with Marina Surtis. Oh yeah, I would be okay with that, But also the whole. Scene where they're like trying to get into communication range with Federation and you know they had to get rid of the warp core and then you know they're shooting at him, and finally Riker gives that line we are through running from these basth and he just turns that ship around and goes right into the fight. That is Commander Riker, And yes, without question, I would want to be him.

47:09 In this film. Yeah, we definitely see the Captain Riker, Yes, that we see in Piccard season one, right when he says there's nothing I would appreciate more than to you know, blast your tall Shire ass into. Oblivion or whateverthing he says. We see that Riker, which is beautiful for me, Dave. I'm gonna go back to what you were mentioning about Jordi getting his ia back. I can't imagine the feeling of having his iesight back. But I think LeVar Burton did an amazing job in that scene that we finally get him to be able to play Jordi without the prosthetics, and the emotion that he conveys without saying a lot is beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time, So applause to LeVar for that. Yeah, but also just his his command of I mean he steps into the number one scene in that scene with with Raker and with a lot of the decisions he's making, he just does a phenomenal job. So I choose, I choose Jordie, Wayne, what about you?

48:23 I think I'm going to have to choose Wharf. You know, we've seen a lot of Wharf. Uh. He you know, when he moved over to deep space time, but he always seems so depressed and so much was going on. It was just a very rough time for him. And now he's back with the people he should be with, and and he's he's he seems to be happy, you know, he's he's in his element. He's with the people he loves, and you know, he's he's got a great fight. He just just seems so happy and and excited and and and I'd. Want to be him. I want to be him right there in the middle, you know. Despite the gorge. Yeah, right, now comes my favorite part where we dive deep into the movie and see if we can't pull out any Easter eggs.

49:08 Of course we can. It wouldn't be star Trek without them now third too many of them for this one, though, I had to really really dig deep for these. This is the only Star Trek movie without any Start eight references, although the year this takes places in twenty three to seventy five, and this is the first time that we see Jordan the Forge at the helm of the Enterprise since the Neutral Zone all the way back in Next Generation's first season. This is the shortest Star Trek film, clocking out at one hundred and three minutes, and if you're wondering, the second is Star Trek three, which was one hundred and five minutes. Most of the sets for the Enterprise E were cannibalized from other areas. Troy's office, transporter room, ship's library were all used from the sets that were standing for a Star Trek Voyager, just redressed a little bit.

49:57 They couldn't damage them too much, and the set for Captain Deccard's yacht is just just the DS nine Runabouts set with a little bit of changes. On the flip side, they built sets for the Sona ship and that would be reused as the solo bandships and Star Trek Enterprise. And finally we've got the Sauna. They would be mentioned one more time later in Deep Space nine seventh season, the episode Pinnumber, which shared about four months after the release of this film. And oh there's one last Okain. This is the last Star Trek film to have it's cast and crew credits at the start. Of the movie. I know, David, you love opening titles. I do, and you say bye bye to those?

50:39 Yeah, I know, came it now? Dare they date that for me? There is one more Wayne, There is funny you mentioned who watches the Watchers? Yeah, there is a cloth in the back of the cards chair. This is the cloth given to him by the Mentalkens. And who watched the Watchers? Oh that's right, Yeah, it always sat on the back of his chair. He must have went back to what was the planet that the Enterprise crash. Must have got that with that stupid clay thing that he threw over again. And that concludes our look back at the film Star Trek Insurrection. We'd like to open a channel to our listeners and hear just what you thought about this entry into the Star Trek universe, your stories of how you saw it first and your opinions of the film today.

51:29 Who knows you might even get mentioned on a future show. Of course, you can email us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com, find us online at a film by podcast dot com, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and if you're looking for more exclusive content or swag, you can join our Patreon and find out what gims are hidden with him. Thank you again, David and Scott for joining me and the listeners for another fascinating discussion. There's only one more film appearance left for the Next Generation cast, and we hope that everyone will join us again for that discussion on the next episode of Phasers. Set to stun, Stettle, up, lock and Load,