Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek V The Final Frontier

0:01 Space, the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage and debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello, listeners, and welcome to an all new episode of Phasers Set to Stun, where we continue to show our love for everything's Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast focusing on every system of the expanding Star Trek universe by covering television, movies, animation, directors, merchandise, and much much more. Plotting your course on this voyage is your Core Trek crew. I'm Wayne Whited, and I'm Scott Hoffmann and I'm David Burns, and today we're crashing a shuttle all the way back to nineteen eighty nine and taking a close and detailed look at the fifth entry into the Star Trek film franchise. Yes, guys, the time has come to talk about Star Trek five, The Final Frontier, and this time we have William Shatner himself taking the captain's chair and directing the film, with a script written by David Lowry from a story created by

1:33 William Shatner, R. Bennett and David Lourie. So, Scott, why don't you give us a short summary to remind us just what happened in this film? Wayne, I think you mean to say, share it with me and gain strength from the share it nice. In this nineteen eighty nine semi metaphysical voyage, we find Kurse's complete original crew come home to a new Enterprise in almost working order, just in time for another charismatic madman leading another gang of mad max beyond thunderdone stunt doubles to take over the ship. There must be something about tattooin active where that befettles the Groom. Their mission is led by the mysterious Sybock, the never mentioned half brother of Spock, who has taken hostage a small band of delegates from the Federation Romulin and Klington Empire. With apparently strong psychic and empathic powers, he's able to draw out each person's pain in a forced catharsis that renders them completely Devoted to his obsession finding the supreme Being, Sybok takes over one mind at a time until he has control of the Enterprise, which he needs to travel beyond the great barrier. This section of previously impassable space is where Saybok believes he can find not only the creator of everything, but the answers to every question ever asked by living beings. It's an adventure that absolutely stands out as a unique in the franchise for better or worse, as they pursue these answers, and one of the most important of any of them, What does God need with a starship? I'll add one more question to the pile.

2:58 Are we ready to talk about a movie that for many like me can't decide if this is the worst Star Trek movie or if I secretly love it? Wayne, What are your thoughts? Well, let me paint a picture here about my anticipation for this film. Just imagine you're sixteen years old and you just got your driver's license two months back, and you're one of the biggest Star Trek trekkies on the planet, devouring everything there is about the show you know so secretly. You take the family car, pick up your friends, and you drive the line of Ohio, which if your mom found out you drive that fier, she'd skin you alive. You stop at the American Mall, which is a small indoor mall that has like a Kb's toys and a music land and a great hangout for teenagers. And it has a two small, small, two screen theater inside. You walk in and you see hanging near the door a poster showing a chair floating in space, asking you why are they putting seat belts in theaters this summer? For me, that was a great time to be a Star Trek fan.

4:05 You know, how could you not be overwhelmed by the anticipation? And then I saw it, so yeah, oh man, I don't think it's that bad of a film. Yeah, I really don't. I don't think it's the greatest Star Trek film, but it's definitely not. You know, but it's not that bad. It has some really good parts to it, I will admit it. But after coming, you know, with Starter, two, three, and four, which were all fantastic films, this is lacking in a lot of plays on at least that's the way I thought. Yeah, I think it's interesting because there there's definitely a part in this where it feels like one of the most Unstar Trek Star Trek movies, where nobody's studying anything, nobody's taking out of a device. They're just kind of assuming everything in front of them to be true, which strikes me as odd. But there are enough fun parts of this that over time feels like it's aged a little bit better with me. Not that I'm gonna, you know, put this into heavy rotation, but I can definitely appreciate it a little bit more for the good parts, despite one pretty big bad part.

5:20 Well, I know one of the main reasons why they put the seatbelts in is because they want you to leave. I like that that's a good idea. But really, when I think of this film, three things come come to mind right away. Kirk climbing the mountain at Yosemite, the Search for God, and Row Row Row, You're about gently down the stream. I wasn't a fan of this film when I was a kid. I remember going to theater seeing this with my father in eighty nine, which, by the way, I will still claim eighty nine is one of the best years in the eighties for movies. Oh yeah, But I remember us going in and seeing it, and then I came out of the theater very very disappointed, because I mean we came off of the voyage home what three years earlier, and absolutely loved that film, and you know, love what we call the trilogy, you know, with Con and The Search Respot and the Voyage Home.

6:12 It's just I respect Do you respect it more now than I did? Obviously, because I look at Star Trek as a whole. It's nice that we have a Star Trek film, and thankfully it continued after this one. And if you really look at it, I mean it was successful. What it costs twenty seven million but ended up making what fifty or sixty million? Oh yeah, I mean it still made its money back. Well, a lot of it was for me. I think. You know, there's some good humor in this and some good new moments between characters, but I just feel at times it was bland, empty and really not very action pact that I really wanted. And I got to say, the Klingons in this, with the exception of Cord I liked him, feel like they were ordered straight from Wish dot com. Am, I am I wrong?

6:57 You heard not wrong? Yeah, so it is interesting. They are pretty badass Klingons. Okay, well they are mad and they do have an ask. Yeah that's true. I mean Vixus is like, you know, ripped his hell, spicy spice. Williams Crosby is a is a stunt performer. He's got a long list, So I don't know. I thought, I thought her character and Captain Claw like he looks like where they were trying to take the cinematic Klingons with like the big hair and like the you know, it's like eighty nine metal kind of Klingons, I thought, at least, but I am alone, and.

7:42 They look like Klingon teenagers that stole the that took their prey from their parents and went on a joy ride. Did yeh? That's how the mission goes, especially because he proves his you know, his metal by shooting space Garbage. It's been like, uh, it's just a satellite, Like. Did you just call wager garbage going to becoming after you? Just wait, just wait. Yeah. I don't know when I originally saw this movie, but I remember the first time just being confused about what I saw, and it took a couple of rewatches to be like, oh, okay, I get what's going on, just because that that ending, the ending doesn't really make sense.

8:29 The beginning really didn't make much sense to me either, because it's like you've got somebody who's you know, mining in the desert, kind of digging holes, who can barely load a gun. Yet this is one of the generals that's going to take over the Enterprise. Like it, it's a it's a thin stretch reality. I think how they're able to take things over and and doesn't necessarily speak well to the crew that they've They've had the We're five movies in had controled the Enterprise three times and they've lost it twice. Yeah, to a ragtag band of people that basically just point weapons at them and take over.

9:11 I don't know. It seems a little far fetched, but. It does in essence, and I feel this film has a few things already stacked against it. One of them is I do not like Cybock. I don't. I don't like that they made him the half brother of Spock, and it just I didn't like that at all, because, I mean, come on, Kirk and Spock have known each other for many, many years. Kirk would have known this, This would have come out somewhere well before this. But I think there are things that stacked against this. I mean, this isn't year. It was going up against what Batman the Last Crusade license Ghostbusters too. I mean, there are any things going against and then you've got ILM who was really really busy, and they couldn't support this film that it really needed that support for special effects. And on top of that, you hear the writers guild strike.

9:59 So there's a a lot of things that were stacked against this film. But and I know Paramount is the one who's partially to blame for this, because they just kept pushing us forward to get it done and get it out there. I really wish they would have waited a little bit longer because we could have probably had a better film than what we got. So there's a lot of things against it, Grant. I mean we mentioned earlier there are some things in this film that I enjoy. I still feel some of the humor was pretty good in this Yeah, you know, especially with McCoy and Spock and Kirk and all of them. I like that. I liked the Ahora Scotty stuff. I felt like it was nice to see them making that connection with one another, you know, when she brought, when she brought dinner and stuff like that. I thought that was cool. I thought that I loved that connection and I wanted more of that so, I mean, there is some good stuff in this film. I can't complain about that. It is overall, I just did not like this movie.

10:45 Well yeah, I mean I was disappointed the film so much. I went to the theater three more times just after that and saw it. So but I mean, I was just writing on that that I love Star Trek thing. But when I started watching it more and more, when it came out on videotape, and I started realizing that, you know, it's just it's a very flawed film. It's it's very William Shatner. I mean all of them that you know, you we just got two films with Leonard Nimoy directing, and then you watch this and this is this is, in my opinion, this is the way Shatner sees Star Trek. It's it's very very different, you know, but it doesn't work. It's just it just it doesn't work.

11:27 It's kind of hard to even describe my true feelings about this film. It's it's just in pieces. It's great as a whole, it's just doesn't work at all. It's it's horrible. So there's there's two specific pieces of this that don't really work for me. But that we're really standing out to me when I was rewatching this one is the apparent confusion about vulcans and robulins, and I'll do the you know, the low hanging fruit for the Romulin delegate. I don't believe it's the actress's fault because I don't know enough about the writing behind it and what was being done. But it just seems like a very Unromulin character.

12:16 Her her attitude walking in, like she seems like she could have been any species. Necessarily, there wasn't anything specifically Romulin about her, even her uh you know, the the ears were covered by these like decorative ornate kind of Princess Leiah headphones shaped like Rodland ears. Right, the attitude and things that came through in the next generation just was really kind of confusing, Like I kept watching this like, how is this? How is this a Romulin? You're right, you're right. But maybe it's because of all that that she became the ambassador of this crappy planet set her off because it seems like one of the worst assignments that you possibly can have for an ambassador.

13:05 True. Plus, you know, we really hadn't seen much of the Romulins. No theater, we have fires. And let me think, I'm trying to think when this this aired, they've only appeared twice on the next generation. Yeah, this is fairly in one. So yeah, this is she's yeah, one of their earliest romulents in terms of looking the eighties two or so. Yeah, but you're right, she doesn't act. It's just kind of a wasted opportunity because it is, and she seems to be pretty happy for somebody who she's like, you know, shoved off to the dumbster of the galaxy. She seems very gleievl before she's even manipulated by Sybak, So I don't know. And then it's Saybok himself, you know, if he's full Vulcan, the son of Sarah and a Vulcan princess. Aside from the fact that there's there's not much Vulcan about him, he has these kind of of what is it, like, a low level kind of psychic field. I'm guessing because when he's taking McCoy through his episode with his father, or he's trying to go through Spock's pain at his birth, it feels like they're implying that the other people in the room can see it.

14:20 I think that's right correct, which seems odd. I don't know that I've ever heard of, you know, that kind of vulcan powers or anything else like that. And just that his introduction when he's riding up on the horse on Martian Manhunter in the desert like digging for holes. He he gaffs and he's like, oh, you're a vulcan. Like we should all be blown away by this in the fifth movie and it's kind of like, so what, Like it just seems so odd for both of those characters, and it just very off in terms of Star Trek. Yeah, and you know we're talking about the Ambassadors. They have two great actors, you know, got David Warner and Charles Scooper, and they're so under used in this film.

15:10 It's it's it's embarrassing how under use David Warners. We all know he's a fantastic actor. We love He's appeared later and starts Trek fortunately in good parts. But this why are they even there? Yeah, they really have nothing to do with the storyline. There was a lot better than the last time he was pursuing the Supreme Being and Time bandits. Yeah, and I'm glad he got some redemption as Golden Red in uh Next Generation. Yeah, and he plays working in the Undiscovered Country. Yep, oh that's right. Yeah, so when we talked about him again. He's been in everything. I love this stuff he's been of course, you know, Charles s Cooper. We see him again on the Next Generations, Kim Peck, the Klingons. I think practically the same character really is playing here, but much more important. It just I don't know, there's a lot of of you know, parts of this film that that just don't work for me. There are a few that do, especially the music, you know, and some of the scenes are are brilliant. You brought up the scene in the in that room where he's seeing the visions.

16:17 I actually like that part. That's one of my favorite parts of the film. That may not make much sense, but it is. It is nicely shot. And the way Kirk Spock and McCoy are having that that, the conversation, the way they work together in those scenes is really nice. Real really, I think the McCoy stuff was the best there. Yeah, I mean I liked all of it, like the entire scenes. I'm with you on that. That's like one of my favorite parts of the film and how that was handled and how that was directed. But the McCoy scene I thought was abso incredible because it was nice to actually get to see some more of his character, you know, his his family that you know, we really haven't gotten to see. I really appreciated that, and I even liked when Thyback was trying to get Kirk, and Kirk refewos you know, and basically he says, you know, I need my pain, you know. Basically what makes him who he is is that pain. You take it away, then what are you. You're nobody. You're a zombie basically, you know.

17:12 So I like that and I like that response from Kirk there. Yeah. Well I like the fact that Bones and Spock don't go with Cybok, that they choose to remain with with Kirk. Yep. I was careful, very glad to see that. Yeah, here's a reason for that too. I'll get it. We'll get into that later, but yeah, there is a reason why it unfolds that way. Let's take a quick break and then we'll be back to finish our discussion on Star Trek five to the Final Frontier. All Right, we're back, and let's see what more we can uh talk about this, Let's see if we can find something good to talk about. So, guys, I mean, we started talking about some bits of this film that we we really liked. What would you consider your favorite thing about this film?

18:04 For me, I think it's in the brig scene that I laugh hysterically. Oh yeah, yeah, when when they get thrown in there and Kirkus looks at Spot you forgive me, forgive you, I should knock you on your goddamn a and the corresponds, you want me holding GM you stay out of this, I'll see what's right there. And then of course eventually Scotty comes to save them with the S O S to stand back, and they're like listening to the S S to try to figure out S T and just going to I love that whole scene. Yeah, I expected that every time I watch it For some reason, based on what we saw in UH Star Trek four, when kirk is yelling at Spock and he's like, I got to knock you on your ass for that, I expect Stock to say, well, double double dubass on you or whatever.

18:52 Wood. But yeah, the the attempted breakout where he's like useless, unwise and then it, you know, shocked him. I think Scotty is definitely a standout in this one. He's all business. I mean, he's got his hands full from cover to cover, but he's got great lines. Even the part where he you know, I know the ship like the back of my hand and knocks himself out. That's a little far fetched, but still the comedy hits The comedy hits on in a lot of places for me with this one, which is one of the reasons that it's become better. It's not one that I really want to watch all the time, but the breakout scene like you're talking about, and the Yosemite scenes, even though they were a bit ridiculous, McCoy's comedy is spot on where he's like gambling with life, lay in games, Gary and relaxing idiots, and it's just nice to see them come together in a moment where they can truly relax because they haven't necessarily had that for the past four movies. The last one was a little bit more lighthearted, but it feels like that makes it more accessible to a wider audience as long as they don't do it to such a big degree that becomes distant from star Trek and aside from Kirk saying that row row row, your boat has like six rows and the marshmallows and things like that. So I don't know, I just I just like those mole's made it feel

20:25 like pals. And I'm glad the movie book ended it that way too, you know how it ended with them at the campfire, you know, and hanging out again. So I'm glad they did realize, you know, that was a good piece to have in this film, to have those characters relax and to do it again at the end. I like that. Yeah, And you know, going on with what both of you said, anytime that Kirk, Spock and McQuay are on screen together, I think it's some of my favorite moments. Now. They really do show their friendship here in this film, but it comes off Clark. It comes across really well. But I really like the scene. I liked the shuttlecraft crash. I think considering you know, some of the visual effects are hit and miss, I thought it looked fantastic. But I like the scene the right after, you know, when when Stock picks up the gun and you know, Kirk is like shoot him. And I really liked the scene I like the tension. I like the way it was played by the cast.

21:21 Yeah, so along those lines when you talk about like the crash scene, I don't know specifically why this had happened on my latest viewing of it, but the set design really stood out to me. I feel like the set designs were really lit well. I think they were designed well, like there's a lot of places where we're kind of navigating corridors, like after the prison break. It felt like we had some influence from Next Generation. There was probably advance. There was the interior set design. The lighting was just well, it stood out to me, is really impressive. Well, it was more than just influence. They had to reuse some of their sets. The corridors or were just completely re used. They didn't even change them at all.

22:04 They couldn't because they were filming Next Generation. But some of the sets are brand new. I know the bridge is brand new, and it was they brought in the designers for the Next Generation. I think the sets look fantastic, and you're right, and they're lit. They're lit well, They're not too dark like some of the films later on. They just they just looked great, especially that room. The what did they call that the room with a wheel. I can't think of what they called that in the film now, but I love that set with the big windows with the big yeah, like an observation deck or something. Yeah, kind of like they're ten to four maybe, I don't know. Well, that's what it was supposed to be. That's where it's supposed to be on the ship, but there's no windows in the front of the ship to to you know, show that we had to quite match the model.

22:49 Yeah. Interesting. I do like the one simple shot because you guys are talking about how you know, some of these scenes are lit really well and the rooms and stuff like that. To go back to the hangar bay, I just like the simple shot of looking out of the glass over top of the hangar bay. You get you get that shot a couple of times, especially when Scotty is like watching what's going on when it crashes and stuff like that in the fight. But I do, yeah, I agree with you guys. I think they did a really good job with that. This time. There was another scene that stood out to me because it's I think it's unique in all the Star Wars. Oh boy, oh. Boy, I should I should say ten Hail Kirk. There is one thing that really stands out, is unique in all the Star Trek movies, which is the Ohura song and dance sequence. Yes, at first, I was really happy to see that this time. I knew it was there, I knew it was coming, but it was before I knew her history as a singer and a dancer from our in motion episode. Yep. If you missed that, please go listen. You haven't seen that documentary, please go watch it.

23:56 But then I was disappointed when I heard that she they didn't use her voice. I was over dubbed, which just seems like, why would you do that to Michelle? That's ridiculous. Yeah, I didn't know that until recently too. Wow, dumb decisions is what that was. Dumb exactly because she was heartbroken too when she found out that dubbed her. I mean, I would like, I've been with you this log, right, you know, moving this forward, and you do that to me. There was there was no reason for him to have to overde with. I think my the favorite line for me is Captain, please not in front of the Klingons.

24:38 Oh yeah, I thought that was funny. All right, do we have anything else that we can say positive about the film. Let's dig I will say, this gave us Jerry Goldsmith back. So that is one highlight of this film is we got him back to compose this music. Well, let's go and let's talk about this school. We'll bring that up. You know, Shatner wanted to bring back composer Jerry Goldsmith from the beginning, and boy am I glad he did. I mean, I loved Horner. I thought Leondard Roseman did a fantastic job. But everybody knows how much for Goldsmith's being. That score he did for the motion pictures just outstanding. You know, Goldsmith recorded to score at Paramount Stage m over six days in March and April.

25:26 That ninety one piece Hollywood Symphony Orchestra recorded about seventy four minutes of score. So what do you guys think about it? Well, I think it's the Goldsmith that we all love. You get the the percussion with percussion rhythms, you know, the for thext string lines, and that forceful breath that he loves to use. Yeah, it really brings out the power of this movie of Star Trek in general, and anything goldimanth touches. To be honest, honest with you. So, I mean it's something that was definitely myss And you know, I love Winner Wayne, I've I've loved Wonner for a very long time and he's among one of my favorite composers.

26:06 But I will admit Goldsmith's score is way better for Star Trek, So I'm glad he did return to it. It fits very very well. You know, we get the the main theme again at the beginning of this film, you know, which we know very well from you know, next Enuration and stuff like that, and I believe with an Next Ration in their second or third season. When it came out, they had just finished sharing their second season. Okay, So I mean I felt like the music was very fitting just because of you know, where we are at with the Next generation. So having Goldsmith back was a great addition to this film. Unfortunately, I don't like this film a lot, but it has its points that I like, and the music in Goldsmith is one of the biggest ones that I was glad to have return.

26:50 Yeah, what about you, Scott, Yeah, I mean. I think it's it's very fitting for the end, and it does. It's another one of these I feel like, I say, with the score quite a bit that it has kind of a range of different kinds of scenes that they're going through. Right, you've got the comedy, you've got the adventure, you've got kind of the the escape. So I think it does a great job of moving the the the movie along. And I don't know, I think Dave you said the best. It just fits with it, and I'm very glad that we uh that we got this composition team back.

27:33 Yeah, Goldsmith is incredible with action music. And it's not generic action music like you get in a lot of the newer films exactly. This is very well composed action music that fits the movie beautifully. Now, granted, the Final Frontier doesn't have a ton of action in it, but when it does, Goldsmith freaking nails it. There are even elements in the score that and as I've mentioned in the Goldsmith episod so that we did a while back with Chuck, that fits the first night. There are elements in this score that I hear the first night in it and it just God, I love it. It gives me chills when I hear it. So, I mean, he did a fantastic job in this. And wait, I know you think so, Oh yeah, I think of the five scores that he did for the films, this is probably the most Jerry Goldsmith that Jerry Goldsmith had done with the scores. I mean it, just every second of his music has got his fingerprints all over it.

28:29 And he is the master of taking bad films and giving them fantastic scores. He's done that so many times. I mean I could name a dozen of them, like you know, Mister Baseball and Supergirl and Criminal Law and you know, just you can go on and on. But and here's a great example of his music, taking a film that could you know, mediocre to bad and lifting it, you know, making it better than what it really is. And it's a fantastic score. I love this. I've listened to it hundreds and hundreds of times. I did find I remember when I first saw it. I did find it odd that he was using his theme from Star Trek the motion picture, because at the time it was pretty established it was the next generation, but it wasn't considered the Star Trek theme, the overlaying theme. This is where it started being that. With his reuse of this, it became the definitive Star Trek theme. And I love it.

29:32 I'm glad he did. There's quite a few cues in this score that I love, especially that right at the beginning with the Yosemite scenes, it's a track called the Mountain. I think that's one of the most beautiful piece of C's just absolutely incredible, the flute and the violins and just a little bit of Hitt electronic instruments because he always likes throwing something odd in there. And you're right, the action music is perfect Goldsmith. It reminds me so much of others ors he did, like the Rambo films, Yes, yeah, and their Nipe definitely first there's even you can even hear a little bit of what we're going to get in a few Star Trek films, the First Contact, Yes, you know that that beautiful action music that he's so good at and Star Trek First Contract is like one of my favorite Star Trek scores, and so I mean to see that we're starting to get that build up here to that just makes me so happy. And he's doing the whole John Williams thing too with this score, something that is not usual for him, in which he's creating themes for various people and things that you know, we've got the the friendship theme, there's the the quest theme, there's the Chaka re theme, there's cybops themes. I it's very rare for him to do that. When he does, it's it's he does a great job, just like Williams does and it works really well in this film.

30:54 It does. You know, you don't really notice that the themes are separate, but they're there and very various. Four it really is Goldsmith that is finest and it's available to purchase the original score. The soundtrack was released back with the release of the film in nineteen eighty nine. It was on LP, cassette and CD by Epic Records, but it contained very little to score, about thirty eight minutes nine tracks plus the song So the Moon's the Window to Heaven. We had to wait till twenty ten before the rest of it came out with Lalla Lean Records. We got a two CD set containing all seventy three minutes of the score on disc one with alternates, outtakes and the original album remastered for just two but they made it a limited to five thousand copies and it sold out very quickly after its release, which made Paramount really upset because they had put a order that the Star Trek scores would be available and not limited. So Entrota came in, stepped in, re released it, and it's still available today.

31:57 So everybody go ahead and get a copy of this year. You won't regret it. Did they have every take of Row Row Row your Boat. They don't have the singing, but they do have the music. They do have spocks fucking at the Vulcan harp on. There, there you go, there you go. All right, let's let's step back a little bit and talk about the the what IFFs on this film? Do you guys find out any what ifs about about the creation of this film or what you think should have happened? Well, I think one of the big ones for me that was kind of surprised by Sean Connery is actually offered sidebox roll. I heard that, Yeah, which is why they'm been in the planet Chakra exactly.

32:38 Yes. What do you guys think? What do you think about it? Think? Think Sean Connery playing side balk What do you guys think about that? I think it. I think it would have worked, but I like him better. Henry Jones sr. Oh Yes, without money in the right decision. I think we're in the Better Universe. Yeah, at the alternate reality video store. I think the Better ale to go down. Yeah. I feel like he would have been kind of perplexed by it. I think going into the script you would have been like, this is starting to fall apart, doesn't really make sense. It would be also interesting to see how much of a Star Trek fan he is or is not. M h with how that plays out. We've seen that happen with a lot of different franchises.

33:19 People that step in because it will be fun, but they have no idea what they're getting into. I I do think, you know, Cybox's character is definitely flawed. I think Lawrence Luckinbill does a good job with the character. I have a little bit of a higher respect for him knowing that he is the son in law of Desieres and Lucille Ball. I mean, Lucille Ball had a huge part of making it start to even happen. Absolutely, but I don't know. It would have seemed like a mismatch, and I think I would hate to see somebody else as Henry Jones Senior in last. Year's that's the absolute perfect casting. I'm glad he did that, not this well.

34:04 I think I read somewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, But didn't the originally the script have like Spock and McCoy sided with Sybock. Yes, that's correct. We I was gonna bring that up. Okay, that's kind of crazy to think about, isn't it. It is? And there's a reason why they didn't go with that, very good reason because, yeah, William Shatner's first idea was called Star Trek An Act of Love. On the original title of the film, it would have it was much much darker. Yeah, and it featured the first true falling out between Kirk and Spock and McCoy. You know, they would have went with Sybock and left Kirk alone enough, But this changed because Meimoy absolutely refused to play that.

34:47 Let me say, there's no chance whatsoever that Spock would ever turn on Kirk, especially after what Kirk did for him in Star Trek three. You know, Shatner liked the original idea, and he did his best to try to get me more to change his mind, but Memoy said, no, you know, he there, they're brothers, they're practically brothers. Back would not portray Captain Kirk. And then you know, hearing this DeForrest. Kelly thought, well, yeah, I agree with that. You know, McCoy wouldn't do that either. You know. Shatner finally, you know, after sitting down thinking about it, he started to agree with them because he realized that, you know, if the tables were turned, Kirk wouldn't have gone with Cywalk. He would never turn against Spocka McCoy either.

35:30 So that's that's the reason why we didn't get that part of the story. But it would have been it would have been such a left turn for the arc that it's taking. Yeah, right, it would have been. It would have made Undiscovered Country seem really really strange and really really strained among the crew, and you don't want to do that when they're about to basically wrap up their time in the franchise. I'm glad we got what we got. Yeah. Yeah, And I don't think the fans would have went for it any either. No. We all know that those three are they're they're they're together. I mean, you know there they are just like brothers. There's no way that they would split like fans would have been would have been against this film more than they already are, no doubt.

36:12 But I know there was another uh go ahead, No I was there's another another alternate uh angle to chakery. Uh that we all was got with giant rock monsters that Kirk was apparently supposed to fight, which is a happy accident because we didn't get that in here, thank god, because I don't know who would have Judo chapter the neck. But uh, that ended up coming back to Galaxy Quest, Thank goodness. That scene, that scene was filmed. They did. They did film that scene, my goodness. But yeah they did. But you know, they he wanted a whole bunch of rock monsters, but they only were able to make one animatronic and it happened to be played by Stumpman and Tom Morga.

37:00 Okay, there we go, get everywhere. I've seen the pictures of him in that in a costume. He personally showed him to me. Yeah, they they filmed the scene, but it looked so poor, so bad, that they dropped that whole thing out of the scene. Although you can very briefly there's a scene where when God shoots those energy blasts and hit Captain Kirk and it throws him back. You can briefly see a one of the rock monsters in the background. Yeah, you know you And if you wish to see the scene, you can see it. Watch it on the the two disc DVD release. I'm not sure if it's on the Blu ray, but it is on the DVD release. They're there for everybody to watch. I'm glad they dropped it.

37:44 And for those listeners who want to know more about this photo album, Wayne is talking about Tom Morga, please go listen to Convent three and in the line that Jeff and I had to wait because of Wayne and Tom Morgan. Oh you'll love it, you will, you will. It's great, great story. All right, are there any other thoughts about this film that you guys would like to bring up. Let's not forget about Kim Cantrell. She auditioned for a role for one of the Klingon Wars. I wouldn't wear that. I didn't know that. Yeah, thank goodness she didn't happen, because obviously we're gonna get her in the Undiscovered Country for a more important role. Yeah. I am crazy about the Klingons or their parts in here. They are also underused and badly used. I'm glad she didn't she didn't get that part.

38:28 Yeah, I even believe Max von Sideau was favored for the role of Cybock as well. I can see him playing it though, I can too, Yes, I could. I could see that he do a really good job. I could see him changing it to say something's gotta be different about this and this whole ship of scientists exploring the galaxy, Kirk being the only Star Trek person in that scene to say, like, wait a second, why does God need a starship? Like, let's scan some things, let's ask some questions. Yeah, especially just the fact that there's there's something called the Great Barrier in Star Trek. Yeah, well the sidewalk ends here.

39:08 We just turned around, can't go any further like that is probably the most confusing part of the film, this whole Great Barrier thing. How this is supposed to be in the center of the galaxy. You know, we saw that the barrier at the edge of the galaxy in the original series. How did they get there so fast? I mean there's no way. I mean, look, how it's gonna take like eighty years for Voyager just skipped from the Delta quadrant. I mean they just flew the Enterprise just flew halfway across the galaxy to the center in what like, you know, ten minutes, you know, boy? Yeah, I mean Janeway needs to give her a call and find out how he did that. This is an ownership too, so interesting, And that's another thing that really bothered for me about this film. Okay, the Enterprise having all of those issues. Come on, Now, what century are we in? How many starships have they created at this point? Come on, There's no way the Enterprise would have that many damn issues. Come on, I can see one or two, but that much I call I call bs on that.

40:10 I agree, I agree. And you know, Scotty's supposed to be one of the best engineers and his whole ship is falling apart. Now where did they get this out of the garbage dump? Price? Not a good sign for. The beginning of the Enterprise A right, well, and wouldn't they have like a pre crew, Like don't you put in like the JV team to kind of run the ship for a little while? You're right, so the kinks gat worked out and then you put everybody in like I don't know it all. It also makes it seem like there's a shortage of starships because they always have to call on the Enterprise, right. Guys, and this this Enterprise, this Enterprise was actually had a different name. It was another ship before they rebranded it the Enterprise. So obviously it had to have a shakedown cruise, probably went on some missions. Maybe I don't remember the name of the original ship. But but this isn't like something that just came out of the Utopia Plantia.

41:05 This is something that's been working. So you know, I I'd at least give a call to that captain or that other crewman fare out, what the hell did they do that starship? You know, right, the USS almost price. Yeah, it looks seems like they got a lemon, right they did. That's probably the captain of the writing crop he got. It's his revenge on Scotty. It's it's his revenge on Scotty for what he did to the Excelsior in Star Trek three. Which, by the way, I want to point out, this is the last time to serve on the Enterprise. Oh you're right. Oh interesting. All right, let's take a second break, catch our thoughts, and then we'll come back and finish up our talk on Star Trek five. All right, we're back, and now we're going to take a look at some film facts, everything about the film that we found fascinating and at times maybe somewhat humorous. What did you guys find about the film that you'd like to bring up to start?

42:04 Well, I think we've kind of already mentioned a little bit that they were using some of the corridors and sets of Star Trek the Next Generation. I believe Sickbay was used unaltered in this film. Wasn't it from the next generation? It was, which I mean it makes sense to use, right because I mean it's right there. They had it built for the next generation as it's being filmed, so I mean, why not. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's really wasn't a major part of the film, so right, yeah, it's it didn't It wouldn't have made sense to have to build a home news exactly. I found one interesting thing that's not necessarily production, but it's merchandizing what you know, almost on NES apparently there and I didn't know about this. I looked up a video on YouTube of a playthrough of the prototype. But they had an NES game made for this based on this movie, which is basically just a It seems like a simple side scroller. If you remember the Batman and Neys Game of eighty nine farce. But it's basically like a side scroller of Kirk or whoever. It is kind of, you know, running along various plateaus shooting at things. Apparently you get to fly the Enterprise a few times, although it's a nes top gun kind of flying the Enterprise where there's like up, down, left, right, shoot shoot, So not really Zulu level piloting skills there. But it is interesting that they almost had that game but then canceled it because the movie was not doing well at all.

43:32 I would have bought it, of course, to have it mean all right. Star Trek five was released in June nineteen eighty nine. Was happened to be the last Star Trek movie to be released in the summer months until two thousand and nine Star Trek And Unfortunately. It was the winner of the nineteen ninety Razzies Awards for Worst Picture, Worst Actor for William Shatner, and Worst Director for William Shatner for Game. The film used a lot of stock footage from the previous films to save money. The shot of the enterprises spaced off was from the end of Star Trek four. Many of the shots of the Kling on Bird of Prey were used for use from Star Trek three and that star that starfield that was shown when Kirk was giving his log is actually from the opening credits of Star Trek to the ret the con One of the deleted scenes that is available to watch on the dvdos of Sulu and Chekhoff visiting Mount Rushmore, which it includes an added face of an African American woman makes me curious about exactly who that was.

44:35 Yeah, not kidding. Unusually, there is some product placement in this film, and it's pretty dip ocult to miss. First, you got Kirk and McCoy are wearing Levi's blue jeans and Kirk, Spock and McCoy are enjoying Kraft Jet puffed marshmallows or marshmallows. Around mar mellon Are. And by the way, in the novel, Kirk knew that Spock would be using the computer do you research on the camping, so he actually had the Enterprise's computer text go in and change all the reference to marsh mellows as a joke against Spock's. There is some backstory to. That credit to Spock for bringing along like was it a handheld replicator? Yeah, it's solid purpose is to squeeze out one oblong marshmallow.

45:25 Near the end of the film, where Spock mentions that he lost his brother Siebok, Kirk answers, yes, I lost a brother once and I was lucky to get him back. While Kirk did lose his brother George back in the original series episode Operation Annihilate. He's actually referring to Spock here. Yeah, that was a good moment. Yeah. Now, Harve Bennett blamed the movie's failure on specifically Star Trek the Next Generation, which is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How rude, just because Pulaski was in season to this one, and luckily it didn't you know, tank the franchise, because we got season three of Next Generation, one of the best I think.

46:10 Well, all right, that was to come up. But remember, you know, the fans weren't exactly happy with Star Trek at the time too, because just before the last image of Star Trek that the fans had before Star Trek five was the clip show. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's true. That's true. Pull up, pull up, pull up. Here's something I want to discuss, which is probably the most irritating thing that I found in this film, and it bothers me every time I watch it. In the Levitation Boots scene where Spock, McCoy and Kirk are flying up the turboshaft, first of all, the deck numbers are seen to go higher as they go up, which they should be going down the other way around, Yes, because the bridge is on deck one. And in addition, you see them pass the sign for decks seventy eight on their way up, and then they also passed deck fifty two twice. But the Enterprise only has twenty three decks, So where the hell are they going? What are these numbers?

47:14 That drives me insane though, And you know it's not like it they didn't notice. Production designer Herman Zimmerman, you know he works on the next He tried to explain this to Shatner, but Shatner refused to change it. You know, he wanted to shoot the Soon scene exactly the way he had it because he was convinced that that shot was just so damn highly dramatic. Well, just as I said before, when they ordered the Klingons from wish dot com, maybe they got the Enterprise through. I think a lot of the jet boots, Like somebody was super excited about jet boots, clearly because we had to keep bringing those back up. Aside from the fact that I'm not sure how Spock got above them to get the jet boots in the first place, him becoming from thee of them.

48:02 Oh just great, Now that's something I didn't notice. Now it's another thing that's going to bother me about that. Well, and the speak while we're on jet boots. When Spock catches Kirk from the fall at Yosemite, he's holding him while leaning sideways with the jet boots. Yeah, but the jet boots only seem to have up and down propulsion, So how is he how is he levitating sideways to hold on Kirk? Just relax and watch the movie. Yeah, the valid point. Well, now continuing on, here's a nice little connection. In the Star Trek Connection Generation episode Evolution, which was the next episode that would air after this movie, Lieutenant Commander Data mentions that there has not been a system provides technological failure on a starship in seventy nine years. That's a nice little nod back to the Final Frontier. You know, it's assumed that Data is talking about this and they have confirmed. The writer has confirmed that, yes, it's a little connection to Start Trek Final Frontier. That's pretty cool. Yeah, CBS aired this one this time. They're one and only Star Trek Movie Network TV premiere. He They aired it on December third, nineteen ninety one, three days before the release of Star Trek six. And you mentioned the video game, which didn't unfortunately come by. But there was a lot of tie in merchandise to go along with this film, a lot. Of course, like all the films, there was

49:34 a novelization. This time it was written by J. M. Dillard, who would go on to write all the rest of the novels for all the remaining Star Trek films. There was a comic book adaptation from DC Comics, this time written by Competer David and art by James M. Frye. Starlog Magazine released an official movie magazine which I'll admit I owned. AMT brought out a re release of their USS Enterprise Model Kit, which I'll admit I owned. The toy maker Galoo which at the time we're making fantastic Star Trek The Next Generation Action Figures released a set of five special figures for Star Trek five, including Kirk Spock, McCoy, Cybalk and Claw. But to my incredible disappointment, there was no articulation. These were not action figures. There were no more than just statues of the characters.

50:21 Not even like hips and shoulders. Yep. They just stood there and you were supposed to look pretty and you were supposed to play with them. Somehow, I don't know. I was so looking forward to those. I asked for one look, I said, no, I don't want this. All right, Bertle Toys released a small die cast version of the USS Enterprise and the Klingon Bird of Prey, which was basically just to re release of their Star Trek three line, and then, believe it or not, Craft sold replicas of that marshmallow dispenser that spot use the mail order only. I remember this so clearly, the summer of nineteen nine. Of course I wanted want I never did get one.

51:04 I just imagine there's must have been so many times when a Star Trek fan is overjoyed at getting two marshmallows out of the thing, and then inevitably it gets gummed up in the works and they're just heartbroken because they're like, I waited so long yeah, of all. The things they could have produced, I mean, you've got phasers and try quarters and all this stuff. I mean, what kid wants a marshmallow the spencer, but well I did. I wanted to flying boots. But side of that, well, it helps you, it helps you love day sideways. Unfortunately it makes you repeat several decks. The steering must be a haywire. I don't know. But one more kind of element that I feel is kind of a redemption moment is God is redeemed in Next Generation because George Murdoch I kept forgetting where I recognized his face. He is Admiral Hanson in Best of both worlds.

52:03 Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. I forgot about that. Aside from being a giant floating ahead with a wig, George and Murdo got a better role, thank goodness, later in season three. So look, we're all better off for it. We are. And that concludes our look back at the film Star Trek five, The Final Frontier. We would like to open a subspace channel to our listeners and here just what you thought about this entry into the Star Trek universe. Your story is of how you saw it first and your opinions of the film today. Who knows you might even get mentioned on a future show. Of course, you can email us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com, find us online at a Film by Podcast dot com. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and x and if you're looking for more exclusive content or swag, you can join our Patreon and find out what gyms are hidden within. Once again, thank you David and Scott for joining me and the listeners for another fascinating discussion. Absolutely, if you haven't already done so, go back and check out the podcast reviews for the other films and TV shows in the Star Trek universe, and then join us again soon where we fire our Photon torpedoes onto Star Trek six, the Undiscovered Country. I promise things can only get better for Kirk and this crew, and we hope that everyone will join us again for that discussion on the next episode of Phaser. Set to stun and remember, go climb a rock. Plotting your course on this voyage is your core Trek crew. I'm Wayne Whited.

53:41 I'll be number two.