Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country

0:01 Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage and debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phasers Set to Stun, where we continue to show our love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of Trek by covering television, animation, movies, directors, and so much more.

0:57 Plotting the course, as always is your Core Trek Crew. I'm David Burns, I'm Scott Hoffman, and I'm Wayne whited Red Alert. We are going to be talking about a film that has been out for a little while, but still want to give that warning out there, so if you've not seen this movie, please go watch it and come back. To join us. Top PAP, top B to be or not. To be to those who don't speak Klingon Picture It, Cincinnati, nineteen ninety one. A young boy named David has just graduated from high school, moving on to the unforgiving adult world, full of hope and excitement, and to make things even better, he gets to see Star Trek the Undiscovered Country at the end of that year, which to him was and still is the best Star Trek for the OG.

1:43 Crew and his opinion, of course. Released December sixth, nineteen ninety one, with a budget of thirty million dollars and would roll on turn almost ninety seven million worldwide. Story by Lunanie Moy, Lawrence Connor, and Mark Rosenthal, with a screenplay by Nicholas Meyer and Denny Martin Flynn, and. Of course directed by Wrath. Of con director which is probably why this is so good. Nicholas Meyer Wayne take us on a trip into the Undiscovered Country and tell our listeners what this film is all about. After the devastating destruction of the Moon Praxis sends the Klingon Empire into chaos, Captain James Kirk and the crew of the USS Enterprise are assigned a mission to bring the killing on Chancellor Gorkon to Earth to negotiate a peace treaty with the United Federation of Planets. En route, the Enterprise appears to fire on the Chancellor's vessel and Gorkon is killed. In the confusion, Kirk and McCoy are arrested for the murder, leaving Spock to figure out who is behind the attack and save the negotiations, but there are those behind the scenes seeking out to destroy the new Alliance before a treaty can even be signed.

2:55 Gentlemen, First thoughts on this film, Wayne, you go first. I you know, like you, I remember watching this. I love this film, you just like I mean, exactly like you said. It's I don't know if I put it number one, but it's definitely number two, and it's it's fighting against Rapacons as being the best. I'm not really sure the film is so well constructed, which I mean after the Final Frontier, you know, everything that the Final Frontier did wrong on Discovered Country did right. That's the best way I could put it. I would agree, Scott, what about you? Yeah, I would actually eke this out to be my number one U Trek film. I know that Rathacon definitely has its it's as a contender, but after watching this one several times just for this episode, I remember how rewatchable this movie is, how consistently exciting it is, and how it just subs good subs, good viewings give you just more opportunities to dig a little bit deeper into details, and it's exactly how this one is designed, right. It's got elements of intrigue, mystery, action, suspense. Every crew member, I feel it gets a moment to shine in this one.

4:15 So I think it's the perfect send off. Although it always makes me kind of pause when I say that because of generations, right, but it does feel like the perfect ending for the original series arc in their cinematic run. It really is. And just like you said too, everything you said, this is a perfectly paced Star Trek film. Perfectly paced. You never get bored at all from the beginning when you get the explosion of practice, all the way to the end of this thing, you are completely glued to that screen. You know, if you told me. That I was gonna go see a movie that involved some war, some corruption, politics. I'd be like, I don't know if I want to see that or not. But this movie has it all because, like you said, Scott, it's got everything wrapped up and imperfectly put in here from beginning to end.

5:03 I really did. It was a struggle for me for a while to put this one ahead of Wrath of Khan because the rest of Kahn's Got the Death of Spock, And I think that's what a lot of people, you know, hold on to because that was just so powerful. But when you really put the two movies together, this one just has so much goodness going for it, right, I mean, it. Just written so well. And I know we're about ready to talk about the cast, but you know, I'm gonna go ahead and let the cat out of the back on this one. Christopher Plumber was phenomenal. Yeah, he steals the show. He does consistently. Yeah, best performer in my opinion, in this entire movie. You know when he when he's giving on the trial of McCoy and Kirk, I think that's some of his best performers right there. That that whole sequence. I mean, I was just glued to the screen listening to every word coming out of his mouth. And I've seen this movie countless times, but I'm still listening to everything he's saying because that scene in itself is put together so well.

6:04 Yeah. I agree because a lot of people say that Con is the perfect adversary for Kirk. But I really think it's changed. I really do. They're they're more of an equal, more of you know, the opposite side of the coin than than than Kahn is to Kirk I think he's phenomenal. Yeah, well it doesn't you know. I'm thinking about when you describe, you know, the moment that you go to see it in the theater. I remember when practice exploded in the theater. It hit you like a hammer. Yeah, and I did not let up, but I had the appropriate amount of pacing to go through. I think, Wayne, you know, thanks to you again, the idea of the trilogy that got started with Wrath of Khan hits even harder with this one. No keeping that in mind, you know, knowing how much this does have to do with the loss of kirkse and how much that still reverberates with him now as kind of an ambassador role, Right, how do I move forward with this and not let my own personal beliefs and biases get in the way of what has to happen. I love seeing the next generation DNA. Yes, in this one. It is a reminder of how great a time that was for so many intellectual properties. But you can see the advancements of next generation where it kind of informs where they had to kind of plus

7:35 things up, especially from where we just were with Final Frontier, big difference, Yeah, and I was. I was so happy to see the David Warner redemption with this one. One of my favorites. And I don't know how it lines up with about Me in the animated series, but it is very hard not to see this as racial Ghoul the klingon his voice when he introduces his daughter, like he almost says, I know, he almost says. It's weird because he has less to do in this film than it didn't start Trek five. But he has more of an impact in this filmancause that useless character from Star Trek five. It's great.

8:18 Yeah, A little bit of time he had on screen here was so powerful and so impactful to the entire story. And I don't know how many minutes he was on screen, but it was not a lot. No, Well, I mean he makes a tremendous impact just his presence when they beam onto the platform and his cane is the fang of something yea a targ I guess I don't know, like and. Yes, it's bad ass. Yeah. The costume work is phenomenal for the Yes. Absolutely, I feel like when they were creating this one, they realized the misstep they had with the Final Frontier, and they're like, man, we come back with this one. We got to come back big, We gotta come back swinging for the home.

8:59 Run wall and they did. They hit it. They hit it good. Yeah. Yeah, Well they're benefiting also from the next generation and just the fact that you know, this is the first film that is we've had the Klingons have been really established further back than what we've because before in the other films, we really don't know too much about the Klingons other than you know, they're all wearing the same outfits and stuff. But the next generation really took that that race and flourished them and show there, you know, a whole culture, different types, different different Klingons, and this film really shows that it benefits big time for the next generation. Absolutely. You know, everybody of the original crew did a fantastic job in this and Scott you even pointed out that everybody seemed to have enough going on and enough to do in this film that it felt comfortable, It felt natural that we had everybody doing something going on. You know, even still losing on the Enterprise, he's on the Accessor, but he still did a phenomenal job enough that we loved him being in this and what he accomplished to help the Enterprise on their mission here. Although that was fantastic.

10:00 Of course, we have Kim Cottrell who joins us as a Lieutenant Valerius. I think we talked about this before that they had mentioned that they were going to try to bring back a savoc in some kind of role, and I believe a rumor was out there that it was going to be this role, and I think Kim Cottrell even had that impression that she was going to take on the role, which is why at first she didn't want it, but when she found out it was a new character, she's, oh, yeah, absolutely, And thank god Savig did not come back, because if that was Savag's. Character, I would have been really pissed. Savag a trader now now, Yeah, that would have been horrible. That would have destroyed that character. Yep, I agree. Yeah, I think the audience would have been way too conflicted, absolutely with it, and it would have felt like kind of odd backstory. I think it's richer that we know that there's a relationship between her and Spock as her sponsor in the Academy. M and him having followed her career.

10:55 It gives more depth and breadth to his connection to other Falcans. Yeah, and I thought Kim was fantastic in this, from from you know when you first meet her to al way to when you find out who she really is. Her performance and we'll get to a little when we talk about the film, but that scene between her and Spock on the bridge when he mind melds that was just phenomenal. But we'll we'll get to that. Yeah, I would say I'll wait for it, but I would say that her delivery and her performance for each one of those is pitch perfect. Yes, like I'm trying to think of anything was off, but just yeah, she delivers so many amazing lines and has She does such a substantial.

11:37 Role in this, it's great. Yep. Absolutely, Mark Leonard coming back to Sarah. He's not in it very much, but it's nice to see him back. I believe this was his last time playing Sarah, is it not. I can't what was in the next. Oh no, he was in the Next Gen because he had the arc with Picard after this, right. But his appearances, Let's see, he appeared in Sarah, which was before this, and he appeared in when his character died in Unification. That's right, I believe that. I believe that aired just before this movie came out, So this technically is his last performance. Yeah, yeah, so in that neighborhood it was his last performance. So not much of a role in this one, but it was still nice to see him, you know, on screen.

12:19 I'll tell you. Also, who was nice to see was Grace Lee Whitney and getting her to have a little bit. Of some dialogue on the Excelsior. I love that. Thank you for giving somebody else from the original crew, you know, a shot at this. You know, I know she's not a big character, but you know, she had a lot to do with the original star Trek, so it was nice to see that. It was really good. Brock Peters as Admiral Cartwright in this Wayne, I know we see him later on in Deep Space nine, that's right, Yeah, big place, Yeah, a big part. I think he plays Cisco's father, does he not, that's right, yeah, yeah, Joseph Cisco. So it's nice to see him. Another actor that I always laugh when I se him now because I'm so used to him from that seventies show. Kurtwood Smith playing the Federation president. You know, every every time I see him on screen in this movie, I kept hearing his line when my time comes, I want to be buried face down that way. Whoever doesn't like me, Mike can kiss my ass.

13:16 I still I have a hard time separating him from RoboCop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. It's it's hard to see him through the you know what were where were we used to seeing him and seeing him through the makeup. But great performance, and he would return to for two episodes of Voyager as well. You have a different character. Though, Yeah, absolutely. I love how they keep the in house going on. You know, you do such a good job. Let's bring you back for another character. Who could you know? Keep it rolling for sure? So we were in. We already mentioned Christopher Plumber and David Warner, both of them fantasticness. John Shook as a Klingon ambassador. He's been in a lot of Star Trek too, two Star Trek films, I know this one in a Voyage Home and then he did some television for Star Trek. So you know, more people who are just popping up all over the place for Star Trek. Of course, we get a nice little surprise Christian Slater popping up on us on excess there.

14:14 I remember when I first saw this in theater when the door popped open and then you you know, you get a little bit of silhouette with it, but you hear his voice. And then when he showed him, like, well, Christian Slater in the Star Trek what. So that was? That was kind of a nice surprise. You do know why he's in the film, don't you? Because of his mother being the casting directory. Yes, that's correct, yep. Yep, it's funny. Wayne Jeff and I had did the Name of the Rose and she was also the casting. Director for that film. And Christian said, of course had a much bigger role in that film, you just in this one. But still kind of funny for everyone who knows the next generation. Michael Dorn makes a wonderful appearance in this as the Klingon defense attorney for Kirk and McCoy apparently is the he's playing the grandfather of his character Wharf.

15:03 Yeah. From my understanding, yeah. That's pretty cool. I mean, as soon as you hear him, you're like, oh, that's Michael dor You cannot miss that. Voice and his presence. Yes, and his presence. For sure. Wayne's buddy Tom Morga is in this film, of course, that's correct. Yeah, and for those who want to hear a funny story about him, please go catch our con Men three about Tom Morgan and Wayne because it is absolutely hysterical. Although you might have to wait in the line, but anyway. But you might. That's right. And then Wayne, you and I William Morgan, Shepherd Klingon Commander prison of the prison there, Major Trimble and Gettysburg. I know that's where he's from.

15:43 He's got a lot of other stuff obviously, but I know him clean, doctor who of course, of. Course, of course, so I think there's a there's another member of the Klingon cast Rosanna de Soto as a I've got to pronounce like David what it does. Does an amazing job as the subsequent chancellor in this one. Yeah. The entire time I was like, she's in and she's got to be in on it, but she's she's not. Then just tandeles it expertly. Yeah, she's innocent. I mean, I mean again, a great script. They have us fullard. We don't know what's going on, right, A loud twist and turns yep. Absolutely.

16:26 Let me bring it up to on the next generation. It stated that females are not allowed to be Chancellor. I think some writer for got to watch Star Trek, Star Trek six Discovery Country. Shame on them. Do their homework. All right, guys, Well, let's let's take a break and when we come back we will start talking about this film and breaking it down. We'll be right back. Welcome back, everybody where. We are here at Phasers at the stune, Scott, Wayne and I are discussing Star Trek six The Undiscovered Country. All right, guys, let's talk about this film because there is so much stuff that we could talk about. We could probably be here for a couple hours talking about this film. I liked that they dedicated to Geane Runberry because he passed away. What just not too long after this one was complete?

17:16 Right, Yeah, it was months before. I'm trying to remember exactly. I think it was during the summer. I know he got to see it as a complete film, but I think he passed away. I think a few days after he got to see it as a complete film. He hadn't been released in theaters yet, but he got to see it at least so at least you know, hopefully he liked it. That's all I got to say. I didn't he I heard I read this story. He gave them the thumbs up after he washed it, walked out of the theater, and then called his lawyer and told them to immediately get a hold of Paramount because he didn't like the fact that there was a lot of conflict, lots of political conflict and a lot of trade you know, the whole behind the scenes stuff with with people trying to undermine the the the treaty. He didn't like very much. But then he passed away before they anything could happen, So his lawyers just kind of, you know, forgot about it. Let it, let it slide.

18:15 Yeah, because it's a good film, that's why they let slide. Yeah, yeah, let it go. I knew he was wrong, Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. But I mean, this movie opens up with a huge bang, as we already know, literally literally, uh practice Practice explodes klingon Moon. Of course, the USS Excelsior is very very close to that, so they take a little bit of a beating. Because of that. But I mean it's a good way to start this film. It really pulls you in immediately to what's going on, and then they quickly obviously go to that meeting with everybody that are pulling the Kirk and all. Of them in. I love the fact that when Kirk arise at. Work spot, well the hell spot, and then of course he shows up, they run the meeting.

18:58 Yeah. I think there's some inter use of helmsman in this one. Obviously, you know, Sulu has that expert control of the you know, turning into the wave when it hits Praxis. But the casting of Valerius in the helmsman position I think is also kind of interesting because Valarius is in on it and has to be able to keep her ship running with the club's bird of prey beneath it, or if it had been another helmsman, I think there may have been. I don't know. I think Suliy probably would have noticed that something was off. And yeah, then they go right into that amazing I don't know what you call it, kind of assembly.

19:42 Conference, media assembly whatever. Yeah, Yeah, a great scene it is, Yeah, yeah. Great dynamics between Kirkin's back and. It goes back to kind of what you were talking about earlier, Scott, about going back and revisiting some of the stuff that happened with him son here. He hates to cling Kirk does. He absolutely hates them, and he's not hiding it here. I mean the fact when Cartwright even talks about, you know, we should not be doing this, you know, let's let's bring them to their knees and then then we can do something about it. It's hard to imagine that Kirk agrees with him here, but he does. I mean for a good reason. I mean for what happened with him. You know. I love that dialogue between him and Spock when they're confronting one another and Kirk was like, don't believe them, don't trust them, and you know, Spock is like, Jim, they are dying, let them die.

20:32 I thought that was just whoa Kirk. I mean, you've got really seen that from him in these movies like that. Yeah, but it makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense because really you have to understand, you know, I see where Kirk is coming from. If you look at his history with the Klingons, it's not been a very good history. I mean not just the death of his son, which is probably the worst thing, but all the way back to the original series. He has not had very good encounters with Klingons whatsoever, so I can see where his prejudice comes from, you know, And I just think that's the whole point of the film though they wrote it. You know, there's two sides of it, and you can see both sides where there cooming but you have to overcome. That and he does, yeah, which is which is a good arc for his character in this film. It is, and it's what it's needed because everything he goes through and he gets to the point that he does towards the end of this film, it really makes you feel more for Kirk in this film.

21:24 So it makes sense. I guess that something I found that seems interesting and I don't know how much vletity. I'll do the wage test on it. But there was a. Moment in the novelization or a scene that they had cut out where Carol Markus dies very soon before this, some kind of an attack on a station or something like that that involves the Klegons, and uh, sounds familiar. She's killed. It's been a long time since I read that novel with thirty some years, but that sounds familiar. I think that was in there. Yeah, So in the Italian novel, one of the people that's attacked near the Federation kling On Neutrizone border is doctor Marcus, so he finds out about the attack, goes to see her in the ICU and is with her when she dies, and it apparently leads right up to this movie. So with that kind of subplot in mind, it makes more sense why he's well, he has more of these emotions kind of stirred up. And anybody who only has exposure to the Kirk and cling On relationship in the cinematic universe obviously understands it because in Search for Spock the obvious tension. But then what we had with the Final Frontier that we've just watched, Right, They're

22:54 always kind of cast in that villainous role, but at a very interesting time when Next Generation is giving them more depth with with Wharf and all the other kind of insights into the Klingon Empire. They're not just villains. There's a lot more than that. Yeah, right. I like the touch too that they did here when the Enterprise is leaving Doc. It's kind of a callback to Savig remember when Yeah, they were taking it out about the quarter impulse power and then of course she's like kind of questioning Kirk, and everybody's like looking like, are we doing this again? Here we go again. I dork moment. Every time I leave the Mike arage, when I'm backing out of it, that line goes in my head, like take it easy, take it easy, take it easy.

23:40 Yeah. No, it does a nice touch. And I'm sure that was a Nicholas Meyer thing, you know, since he did the Wrath of Khan, so I like that it was a nice touch for this for sure. So let's talk about the meeting of the Klingons and bringing them over to the Enterprise. That whole sequence I thought was really well done because you can feel the tension in the air between everybody, and even when you get to the end of that scene and the Klingons like obviously are transporting back to their ship and everybody just goes like, oh my god, thank god it's over. Bones. Yes, but what's. Funny is Kirk didn't even wait. They hadn't even been yet, and Kirk is like palming his face.

24:27 Before even beamed away. And you can see Chang watching that too. Yes, he's studying him. But that first introduction between Chang and Kirk was just tension building, man, I mean, just getting in his face like that, and you know that was tough, especially for what Kirk has been through and just having to hold back because i mean, the mission that they're on, they have to do their job, so he can't. You know, he has to bite his tongue basically right here and what what a captain would do. That was a really powerful scene. Yeah. I think that's my one of my favorite parts of the film, from their transporting on to the point where they transport off and the dinner. It is so awkward for everyone in that room, and and the way the actors play it, it's it's great. It's what. It's beautifully directed, it wonderfully acted. You know, it's just it's just an incredibly awkward but you understand why. You know, you got two bad, two people who hate one another trying to sit down and be nice to each other. It's it's it's funny, but it's also rather scary at the same time.

25:33 Yeah, and and Chang of course, you know, using obviously some Shakespeare stuff here and you know, trying to use quotes and stuff against Kirk, and when Kurk says we need when he says, we need breaming room Earth Hitler, nineteen thirty eight. Yeah, the look on spucks what There are so many looks from Spock like he's the he's the mom that would kick you under the table and raise their eyebrow right and say like do your mind. Yeah, I love that. In that first transporter scene when they transport over, there's that brief moment where everybody leaves, and I think it's the assassins. We ultimately learned that have those comments about the smell and whatnot. The way that that scene turns for you after you know Vlarius's role, because at first it seems like she's standing there like you guys didn't know I was here. I'm still keeping order here. I'm the successor to Spock. So you're gonna straighten up and fly right, go do your jobs. Now you kind of learned that she's like, okay, assassins, go get your boots, go get your suits, let's get to it.

26:38 And it's just so sinister. It is, and again, it's written so well that it just goes over your head right there. You don't even think about it or put it together, because you're right, you think she's just doing her job, you know, and you just tell them, look, you know, calm down, stop talking like that, and get out of here, basically, but no, since those three were in on it, and then you're really then you go back and realize, oh. Crap, right, and she's the one that suggests the romula nail mm hmm during dinner, and it's like, yeah, wow, okay. Speaking of the dinner too, I read a little funny story about that that that food that you're seeing, it's actually a squid that's been dyed with the blue coloring, and they wanted the mayor wanted him to eat it, and he told any of them that he'd give him each twenty dollars whoever would take a bite of it.

27:29 Shatner got two hundred and forty bucks out of that before he threw up, Oh. Well, oh yeah, no things, no, nope, nope, nope, And I think it wasn't even some of the Klingons, the actors who are playing the Klingons didn't want to eat. For that's part of it. But the other part was too. If they were caught on camera eating that, they if they changed the angle, they have to be eating it again. Because the continuity going yeah. So yeah, they chose wisely not to bite it into the blue squid there, although I'm sure whoever is in charge of squid dying was like, I did all this work. Okay, I no, right, whatever, Fine, go to. Use alfalfa sprouts, but sure.

28:10 Yeah. But then, as this movie does so well, because it's put together extremely well, you get all this done, the Klingons go back to their ship and you know, everybody's like, oh my god, I'm done, let's go to bed. We've had romulan al. Everybody's worn out. But you don't get time to breathe as an audience because you're pulled right back into this. And then when that first photon torpedo gets launched, you're like, what the hell is going on because you don't know when you first see this film what's happening. And then the second one goes and it's chaos happens. One of the scenes that I think is so done is done so well here is when that first torpedo goes off. Everybody just kind of like turns and looks at the screen. Everyone's kind of like frozen and spot watching this, just not believing what they're seeing.

28:59 And then instantly, the tension air just goes chaos. Your ups, the alarms are going off on the ship. Everybody's racing back to their their place on the bridge and freaking out. I love that scene. It was done so well. Yeah, that's really done. That's second of you know what the hell's going on? I love that it's because that's exactly what the audience is thinking, you know what is going on? What just happened? Well, and everybody responds in the right way to say, like check the records, check the inventory, physically, check in did we fire? How did this happen? Yeah. It's also interesting when you think about the long night that this crew is going through, Like they had dinner at what seven point thirty, and I guess it's like wee hours of the morning when when he gets called to the bridge to learn about the neutrino surge, and then quickly after that has to go to the ship to save Gorgon and then is arrested and they quickly kind of swoop into the trial. I don't know how much time passes, obviously probably has to be a limit of time, but they didn't even change clothes.

30:03 They didn't have time. Yeah, I mean you have to think Kirk and McCoy are literally in the same closes this entire thing after they were put through, you know, because they what can they do, right, you know? And and that subtle little move where Spock puts the tracer on Jim's shoulder, Yeah, it took me a long time to realize, like, oh yeah, that's when he slipped it on. And then you can see it when he's getting under the lift. McCoy would have like. Picked that off's noticed that? Really? Come on, it sticks out like a sword throum, there sre thumb come on, yep, yep. One another thing I'm gonna call out right here for that entire sequence is the score here was phenomenon. Yeah. You know, I know it's not Goldsmith or it's not Horner, but I think the score right here was absolutely, very very well done and paid perfectly. The whole score is absolutely and we'll get to that a little bit later, but yeah, I just thought it was phenomenal right here in the spot, which it needed to be because of what was going on. Another thing that I really liked, when you know, the Klingon ship is coming around and you look like they're about ready to attack, and Kirk immediately says, we surrender in a horror looks like captain and surrender like you know, because of course you do, because I mean, what's going on? If you fire again or you put up your shields, it's over.

31:17 Yeah, well it's a line you never think you would hear Kirk say yeah, and it's absolutely the right call to make. And he's like, no, we need to shut down, stand down and lean into diplomacy. So very different Kirk here. Yeah, I like that. Kirk and McCoy did go over and try to, you know, fix things. But obviously, you know, McCoy did his best. But then the Klingons obviously didn't see it that way. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean. They knew no. I was said, McCoy gets a chance to shine there as a physician, you know, the lengths that he goes to, uh to try to save him, and him panicking to say like, I don't even know his anatomy. I don't know how to how to fix him. I wonder how much the assassins did yeah know about clean anatomy, Like did they know exactly where to shoot them? Not knowing you know, where the heart's located. Things like that, but it was. It was a fatal shot to gork on.

32:10 Everybody else there was like you know, arms lopped off and whatnot. So obviously injuries and fatalities, but there are. A lot of purple blood flying around. There wasn't, which was a smart call behind the scenes to not make it red blood so they could avoid our reading. M hm, yeah, it's And then to go on with the trial. I know we touched a little bit on that already. The whole trial sequence is my favorite part of this film because it's just put together so well. You have the same fear that Kirk McCoy has in this scene because they're away from the Federation. No one can rescue them. Now they know they're screwed. It's over, and you know they're with You know they have their devices up, that their their ears listening in.

32:54 You know that the translators of what's being said, and you know, even if you do get a good trial, you're not going to get what you're supposed to get. Going up to get a kleingons like this, I think, come on, and they know who you are, they know what you've done. You're cooked. It's over granted, obviously they didn't get sentence of death obviously, but they got sent to Aurora Penthe, which is obviously a prison a mine for the Klingons that it's pretty much over if you get go there. But yeah, the whole sequence that I just thought was phenomenal, I really do. Well. The trial is the the opposite of what's exactly the same as what was happening earlier. You know, Kirk He has hatred George of the Klingons. Well, the Klingons have hatred George Kirk in the Federation, and it's just showing the other side of the coin, the other direction, and how the Klingons, you know, it's what do they call that a fixed trial? You know, of course it is, you know, but it's because of that that hatred. You know, they don't like the Federation at all. Out they're and you got to need they need someone to blame.

33:55 Yeah. One of one of the things that I think SE's this movie, apart from some of the other starts, it just feels much more epic because you're getting to see so much more going on in the galaxy, them just going to Roraa Penthe, getting to see all these other alien creatures, and it just it just seems to fit better. It felt like to me like I was I was witnessing a little bit more of what you see in Star Wars. Not to bring Star Wars into Star Trek, you know, I love both so, but it really felt much more on a grander scale than we've seen in other Star Treks. I mean, I know the other ones were pretty big too, don't get me wrong, but it just has that vibe in that field of this film, which is that's why he sets it apart more.

34:35 For me, Yeah, I feel like there's almost a little bit of Deep Space nine DNA yes in this one, because you get characters from other species that have very important roles, whether you think about the the guy who starts to the prison fight with Kirk and gets kicked in the knees and playing the comelloid. I think it was a great call and a great use of the you know, even though the morphing technology at that point wasn't as advanced as it is now, but it's still used very, very well, and you get a sampling of different aliens in different ways rather than just having you know, I know that when they have the end scene, there's all the people that applaud and some people more awkward ways than others. But to give them some substance and some purpose in a role I think is a good good move.

35:34 Yeah, I agree. I like the the the sequences too, that we get back and forth, that you see them on the Enterprise or trying to find out who did this by you know, searching the Enterprise. We're getting to see different parts of the ship that we don't normally get to see, which apparently was a big deal back then. People were throwing a fit about some of the things they shown on screen, which I thought that was just silly. But I enjoyed that. I do. But when you know, talking about you're talking about the phaser in the galley and stuff, well yeah, First of all, I was one of those people that it didn't make any sense. But someone pointed out to me that in the original series, Janis Rand had mentioned that she warmed up Kirk's drink or his coffee using a phaser in the galley, So it's yeah, they well why not? Why would they not keep him? I mean, what if people beam in and that's where they beam into the ship.

36:27 What are you supposed to throw a pan at him? Right? You need access to a phaser immediately. You never know when that's gonna happen. Yeah, so it makes perfect sense to me. But well, I think, you know, it could have exposed the entire conspiracy because if I was that cook that was making the pancake better for forty or the gulash or whatever it was, and that, oh yeah, I thot that Valarous vaporized, I would have been like, yep, she did it. She did it. I love how everybody comes running into fire. Yeah, they could have been like Valarius, you could have just said it. You could have just said that out loud. It didn't need to be a jerk to the cook.

37:08 Yeah, but that was really well so. But then just between that back and forth with the prison and stuff like that, I just thought that was cut together very very well. That's a good editing of what and keeping that story rolling that you never get bored of what's going on. Again, going back to that, this film is extremely well paced. Yeah, it is well in a powerful delivery from Christopher Plumber in that moment when he's like, don't wait for the translation, answer me now. Yeah, he's so intense right there. I love it he is. That's that's his best performance. I feel, uh is right there. It's just over the top and so so well done. Yeah, so. What are the scenes? Did you guys really really like about this? There's so much still the talk about that we could talk about, but there is just let's okay, tell you what. Let's talk about them finding out Valaious is behind all the this on the Enterprise.

38:01 There's a lot of controversy with that scene. Yeeah, Well, let's let's talk about that. Wayne. What you've got? Well, I mean, you know, what is Spock exactly doing to her? I mean, obviously it's a mind meld, but a lot of people were thinking that that's you know, he's he's violating, violating her, you know, he's practically mind raping her. Yeah, I agree, it's what a lot of people are saying. But you have to look at the situation. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he is doing it against her will. But a lot was at stake, Yes, a lot was at stay. I mean the whole freaking galaxy was at stake. Piece. You know, if if a war started, think of the count was millions of people that would have died in Starship's loss. So, I mean, in my opinion, Spock was justified doing that because they needed the answer. Yeah, and she was the only one that was gonna be able to give it to him.

38:51 Yeah. I agree. It's there's a balance there and and it's it's tough to cross that line because you're right, it's it is like a mind rate what you're doing to somebody here. But in that situation, you don't have a choice. Man, is he You're either doing that or you're gonna have a thousands of thousands of thousands of people getting killed of story. Well, and I know that it is, it really is. And Kim Catrall's performance in that and you know how let her Nemo responds, I love his when his voice cracks and he says, she does not know, but the trembling and the tears that she comes to.

39:31 I know. There was something I had read where somebody had said it was because he was pulling out memories or pulling out thoughts, and they're pulling out the kind of elements of betrayal of their relationship, which is what caused that traumatic kind of shaking in that reaction that she had. It's definitely disturbing to watch that kind. Of it is and it should be and it should be. Yeah, right, And I don't know if I've ever necessarily seen an involuntary mind meld like that, but wow, it's it's very powerful.

40:13 I think that's the only one that I can think of. I can't think of any other one. Yeah, so that just makes it that's much more important. It's just not something of Alcan does. I mean, it's against their their their policies, but the way they do things. But you know, Spock, like it's like I said, it had to be done. They needed that information. I couldn't wait any longer. Yeah. One of one of the things that that led up to that that I loved was just seeing that anger and Spock when they lay the trap and they're they're in the medical bay, uh and he's laying down and she comes in and you know, she's got that phaser pointing out him. He just like hauls back and just smashes that phaser away from her and knocks it away.

40:53 I just was like, damn, Spock, you could just feel the anger in the room right there when he did that, showing those emotions that he doesn't normally show. Well, I think it's another reason why it's good that we didn't get Savoc back. Yes, because I feel like there's so much more of a mentor mentee kind of relationship between Spock and Valaris. You know, they have that ceremonial scene where he says, you know, I continue to be my replacement and she says I could only succeed you, and you can see the respect that they have for each other, the amount of time that they've spent in that role to have that kind of betrayal, Yeah, I can see why he goes to the scene where he says, I prefer it dark.

41:43 And it would have been a different dynamic though between Valarus and Savoc because we see at this point Savig would have been This would have been like ten years after ten or fifteen years after Rapicon, so she would have been a fully established star Fleet officer. I don't think Spock would have had that strong of emotion, that strong of betrayal as with someone like Hilaris, who he's like very familiar with recently and has been training. Yeah. No, you're right, I completely agree with that. Let's talk a little bit about the final battle h that we get here U Sulu and the excessor coming in as quickly as they can. Uh, they almost get to Camp Kidmer where they're having the peace talks, and then as they slow up, you get that.

42:31 I see you, Kirk. Absolutely yeah. That just just gives you chills. And then that whole battle just just ensues and they figure out how to you know, get that photon torpedo, uh to find that cloaked bird of prey. And as soon as that pops up, man, it just like go for it. Everybody, just fire. I'd love that. Gotta just gotta have a tailpipe exactly it does. Yeah. Let me say that the visual effects for the sequence are incredible. They are absolutely beautiful, perfectly done on every bit. Thank god ILM's back. Yeah, oh yeah, I agree. This film looked beautiful. It did.

43:12 Yeah, you could tell ILM was back and was at the top of their game again because it shows very well in this film. All right, well, let's go ahead and take another break, guys, and then we come back. We will continue our discussion of Star Trek six The Undiscovered Country. Welcome back everybody where. We are continuing our discussion here at Phaser Set. It's done for Star Trek six The Undiscovered Country. So I thought the film wrapped up pretty nicely, guys. There at the end, the crew coming to Scotty finally gets to save the day and shoot the assassin. I love that. I was like, yes, he gets. It, Yes, and a sneaky cameo we got there with.

43:54 Oh no, okay, yes, m hmm. I always mispronounced it, Rene, I thank you. Thanks. Wait. I love seeing the you know, the Scooby New moment where the mask is ripped off and it's. Like, yeah, well none of those scenes were in the original release. Those they're all yeah, those were all put in later. Yeah. That interesting. It's put together extremely well. It is. So this movie here, here's one of the things that I'm I'm trying to figure out. So the Federation builds these starships, which probably don't are not instant overnight, you know, putting these together. They probably take months, I would think, to put them together. How long do they keep a starship going on missions out there?

44:40 Is it five years? Is it ten years? I'm not talking missions that the crew is on. How long is a ship going for before they retire it? Before they retire. It usually about thirty to forty years. Okay, So here's my problem with this. They are going to mothball the Enterprise here, this new Enterprise is only six years old, true, because because it was new in the Final Frontier at the beginning, even though it was hunka junk. At that time, right, they couldn't get it working yet. Yeah, and this is six six years later, right from the Final Frontier. Actually we don't really know the age because maybe I mean, maybe I'm wrong, Yes, someone if please email me if if I'm incorrect. But the Enterprise A was originally the Yorktown.

45:23 I believe that that's, you know, before they changed his name. But I don't think we were ever told how old the York Town was. Fair enough, Okay, if that's the case, then I'll let that go. But it was just bothering me. I'm like, wait a minute, isn't this must be new ship untily six years old there? Right? And it didn't take a beating that looked like it. I mean, all that stuff looked like a big fixed easily. Yeah. I understand the crew was done. I mean because they've been around for so long, and and I like that the Kirk and they were like the star Fleet's demanding us to come back. We're going to keep going. See you well, in a great Peter pant blind from Kirk where he says second started the right straight out until morning, like for his kind of character. I thought that was really fitting way to go out.

46:08 Yeah, and in the whole captain's log at the end really fit in with the next generation here. Yeah, absolutely perfect, Yes, absolutely perfect. And that shot with all of them together is just an incredible ending shot. Yep. Yeah, couldn't agree more well, and I was glad they would find a way to a clever way to incorporate Sulu into that shot as well. Yeah, they can let kind of exchange of respect and yeah, hat's off to Sulu in this one. He's absolutely to the rescue for sure quite a few times, so kuders to him. All right, any any little information you want to talk about behind the scenes, guys. I know there's tons about this movie that's out there, which you know you can just go and look research it for.

46:49 But anything interesting that you guys might have found, well. I got my film facts later. But I want to bring up the trailer. Does any of you remember how the trailer? I don't want to sure if you saw it this way, but so, where did you guys see the trailer for the first time. Do you remember, I honest, you don't remember. Oh I do. I don't know, I do. I remember exactly where it premiered. Remember, back in the early nineties, there used to be a channel called KVC where you went on there and you bought stuff. Well, ever, occasionally, about three or four times a year, they would have something called a Star Trek Night where they would invite guests from Star Trek on there and they'd sell like autographs and trinkets and stuff like that. And that summer, I think it was in August of ninety one, they had William Shatner on them and they premiered the trailer first time before it was even in theaters, for Star Trek six, and I just happened to be watching it that and of course, you know, I was the biggest tricky ever. I mean I was treky to the extreme.

47:50 I was currently having a movie version uniform being made at the tailor's and you know, so I could wear it for the for the premiere, which I never did, but I did have the made. It's still hanging in my closets as of this day. But but yeah, that's where that's where the trailer premiered. I thought it was rather odd, but I wanted to bring that up, that that's just a little memory that I had. Yeah, well, of all the ways to you know, kind of sneak it where it likely won't leak. I mean, you've gotta you've got to be deeply entrenched to know what night is star Trek Night on QBC, right, like nobody's going to be able to scrabble for their VCR and you know, no leak this any place.

48:33 No kidding, All right, Wayne, let's talk about the score for this film. As we mentioned, Uh, this is not Jerry Goldsmith, this is not James Horner. Uh, it's Cliff Idelman who tried to get them. They did, but I. Tell you even though they they didn't couldn't get them, and they got Cliff. Cliff did a phenomenal job in this film. I think this was his first studio film, just like James Horner, this was his first film. I remember on Entertainment Tonight back just before the film came out, they had a big interview with him and showed him conducting, and he did a phenomenal job with this for a start, just like Horner did. I guess Meyer just likes choosing new people, and he really knows how to choose him.

49:17 Yeah. I like his usage of a men's course in this, yeah, which is you don't get a lot of Usually it's a female choir or as young boys, but this was a men's course. And like the using those non Western instruments. I thought that was phenomenal choices on his part because it works so well in the film. Oh with the Klingons. Yes, yes, it really works well. It's a very it's a much darker score, but even you know, it works perfectly with the film and the visuals. But it's such a great listen, just separate, you know, when you're listening to the soundtrack. You know. It's a pity that he really hasn't done much after this, you know.

49:59 I know he was hoping that this would springboard a pretty big career, but and I know he has done films, But the only thing I can remember is that Christopher Columbus film that came out shortly after this film that he did. I wish we would have seen more. I know he tried to be the composer for a Star Trek Discovery. It sent them promo tapes and everything, and unfortunately they didn't choose him. I wish they would have. I don't get it, though, because he's so good in this How. Did he get work? I don't know. I've heard some of his concert work too, he does concert piece and it's all phenomenal. I just I guess the stars weren't aligned for him. I guess because I mean I thought it was perfectly fitting, because I know when I went to not seeing this composers we normally see within when you do hear the score, say man, this is pretty damn good.

50:45 Oh yeah. And that opening overture that leads right into the explosion, which I think the music just perfectly goes in it. You know, it's so powerful and it's suddenly silent and boom. You know what an incredible opening. And doesn't overuse the star Trek theme. I mean, we don't get until late into the film You're which is perfectly fitting for this film that they did that. Yeah, and his end credits fanfare is one of my favorite end credits, along with Goldsmith's. I love it. I listened to it over and over again. Yeah. Absolutely, all right. Well, let's talk about to be thre eggs. Wayne. I know you're salivating to talk about this because you're so good at it. So go ahead.

51:27 What did you find in this film? Well? See, now we can call these easter eggs because we've got a lot of Star Trek on TV and movies now, so I'm gonna start calling it that. Well, love to start off for us Trekies. This film takes place in the year twenty two ninety three. That means the opening scenes for Star Trek Generations with Kirk and Chekhov and Scotty take place in the same year, probably just a few months after the events of this. Filming for this movie took place during a break between the fourth and the fifth season of Star Trek The Next Generation. Although this is the final Star Trek film to feature the entire original series cast, only Michelle Nichols and DeForest Kelly actually make their final Star Trek appearances here in this film, we see you know, James Dewan returns in Relics, the sor of the Next Generation. Shatner of course comes back for Generations, as well as Water Kaynigg, George Takai, George de Kay He appeared on Star Trek Voyder again, and of course Leonardnimoy appeared in Next Generation and The Star Trek and Star Trek in the Darkness yep. At the same time that The Undiscovered Country was filming, there was another movie that was filming very close to their sound stage called Frankie and Johnny. It was being directed by Gary Marshall. He had arranged for William Shatner, Leonard Nemo and Deforce Kelly to appear in their full Star Trek

53:00 costumes and makeup just off camera behind the door at one scene, so that tween al Pacino, who is the star of that film, that would open the door, he would get an actual look of surprise on his face. That's awesome. Now, while you can't see this on screen, just you just have to trust me on this. General Chang's eyepatch had the klingon crest painted on each one of those rivets. Oh, very very tiny detail right there. Yeah, there's a little booboo that they made. And the credits at the end of the film, your Hera is accidentally spelled your Huru with a year. Okay we got This film was nominated for two Academy Awards, one for Best Makeup and another for Best Sound Effects Editing. Unfortunately it lost both and then of course, we can't talk about On Discovered Country and the events if we don't talk a little bit about the Star Trek Voyager episode Flashback, which also takes place during the events at the beginning of this film with the destruction of Praxis, but it also establishes that the character of Tubac had served as an ensign on Thecelsior.

54:17 They used some of the footage, a little bit of the footage and the visual effects in that episode. But because there were about six years different and they brought back all the original cast members from the Undiscovered Country, there would have been a little bit of a change, especially you know they've aged about six years, so all the shots were refilmed to match what Nichols Mayer had done, but it's all new footage. It's a great episode. If you see On Discovered Country, you have to watch this episode. It actually shows some of the behind the scenes of what happened to the Excelsioris it was traveling to the conference to rescue Kurt. That's cool. I got to check that out.

54:58 I've never seen that, never seen it. One of the best episodes of the series. It was really good that season three, Yes, that's season. Three close to the beginning of it. Yeah, it was made for the thirtieth anniversary. Yea cool. NBC was the channel of choice for the first TV airing of the film when it aired on November six, nineteen ninety four, just twelve days before the release of Star Trek Generations. This would be the first time the Star Trek would be shown on NBC since the animated series aired back in nineteen seventy three. Oh wow. And to end off, merchandise wise, there wasn't too much for this film as well, just because of how bad Star Trek five bombed and burnt a lot of the people who were making merchandise. But of course you know.

55:43 A novelization of the film was published by Pocketbooks, written again by J. M. Dillard, as well as an audio book, this time read by James Dowin. Starlog Magazine, of course, released the official movie magazine. DC Comics once again released a comic adaptation to the film, this time both in standard and special edition covers, adapted by Peter David with art by Gordon Purcell. AMT released a range of models again with their Star Trek six logo, which included the US enterprise A the Klingon D seven Battle Cruiser and the Burder Prey. Hamilton Collectibles got into the release as well, with collector's plates from Star Trek six scenes from the film in their line of movie series plates. We also have car Mike Cinemas, which I had never heard of, but apparently that was the fourth largest theater chain in the US at the time, offered collectible drink cups and popcorn bags to movie govers in their cinema chain. Now, I hope I'm pronouncing this name correctly. With False Graph which that's the company that made the tea set that Sulu was using at the beginning of the film. They made three thousand reproduction sets and made them available to the public to buy. I do remember that they had finally, well, there were no action figures at the time of the film.

57:04 Playmate's Toys would start producing its line of Star Trek figures only a few months later, and they would ultimately release both a General Chang and a Mardia figure in their Classics line about two years after that. Very cool. One of the things that I found interesting in this film is this is the first Star Trek film to validate Kurt's middle name that it's Tiberia. Oh that's right, yeah, yeah. Oh, And this is the first time that we hear Suea's first name actually mentioned on screen. Have been used a lot of times as the novels, but the first time we hear it. Interesting. Cool. Any favorite moments, guys. I know there's a lot in this film.

57:44 Beginning to end, from beginning to end, So Scott, any any favorite moments in this film? I know there's a lot in here, but any favorite for you? So many? I do like. One of the kind of continuing threads that we get is the the friendship dynamic between Jim and Bones, and you get that unfortunately on the prison planet when they're they're having that conversation in the bunks about you know, afraid of the future, Jim kind of opening up there all the way until he gets the kiss from Martya and Bones is like, don't you ever give up?

58:26 What is with you? Come on? And it all culminates when they're having that fight in the snow and you know, Kirk versus Martya and they're kind of you know, rolling around on the ground and they happen to roll over Bones and you can see Bones just be like, seriously, come on just Get Me off this Planet. Yeah, that was that was fun. Wayne. What about you? Oh well, I mean I really do like this film from beginning to end. But I think the well, like I said I mentioned earlier, the dinner scene is one of my favorite scenes from this film, and but I also like the battle scene at the end is just just so phenomenally done. You know the shot where the the photon torpedo bursts through the Enterprise's saucer section, what an incredible effect. And then when the klingon the chains cling on burd to Prey destroy is destroyed and you see the inside and the fire rushing through, and I love that shot. The You've reused that shot in generations.

59:25 But I just between you know, the action that's happening here and we have two starships fighting against the klingon Burder Prey. I mean that was just incredible. I remember being in the theater and just you know, stunned by how incredible this this sequence is. Yeah. Well, I think they've got a great lighting effect when the cloaked Burder Prey fires and yes they do. That's coming home, Yeah they do. Yeah, all of that is just there's so many good scenes in this movie, it's really hard to pick that that favorite moment. But I got to go back to the whole trial scene again. That one was just pumped up so much because of.

1:00:05 Christ Prompt Plumber's performance there. And that you just know the trap that Kirk and McCoy are in. I think even McCoy even mentions it, like, you know this is a setup or don't answer that this is a trap, because it is, and they know they're they're they're done for. But just that whole trial sequence, when you're getting that that that big gavel thing of whatever he's using that when he's yeah, I just I just thought all of that was done so so well. So Yeah, I think the trial scene is probably one of my favorites, even though there are so. Many other ones that I could say for the same thing. But I don't want to repeat what you guys have said, but yes, the Charles scene, I absolutely love. The lighting in that scene is really really well done.

1:00:47 You know, we don't talk much about the lighting of these films and TV series, but kudos to them because they did a really good job at that. Yeah, and to think how much everything that happened in this film, so much is going on. You know, you've got the explosion of the moon for the Klingons. Then you have the get together to figure out that you know, the Kleanons are going to collapse within fifty years, so they want to basically make peace. Then you have the Enterprise to go get them, and then you have all of this where you know, they blow up that they don't blo up the ship, but they kill the. Chancellor, and then Kirk and McCoy get. Captured, they go back, they get put on trial, they get sent to a person plan, and there's so much going on in this film, which I guess that's why it just you never get bored in this film at.

1:01:30 All and don't feel Yeah, it don't feel cluttered, you know, not at all from beginning to end perfectly. Yeah, like I said, it's perfectly paced. And everything that's running under it and through it right because you have access to next generation, so you know that there's a treaty between the Kleons and the Federation at some point, and this is a pivotal moment in that yep. So knowing how that important, how important that is, and all the political undertones and things like that is it makes it a really cohesive story and it just helps it to age. So well. Ye yeah, when you mentioned lighting, there was one thing I wanted to ask Wayne as the resident expert. When someone uses a Federation transporter, it has the blue effect, right, Yeah, that's when somebody uses a Clingon transporter, it has the red effect.

1:02:21 That's right. So what seemed interesting in this watch was when the Assassins beam on to the Klingon ship, they transport on and off with a red transporter effect, which made me think, could somebody have been watching this and thought that the Assassins may have beamed over from the cloaked ship, but I know they didn't because they came back and forth from Enterprise. That's a good catch. Or did they beam to the Klingon ship first and then being in with the right. True, but then they would have left the boots on the Klingon ship and then beamed back to Enterprise. Technicalities of it. Yeah, it's something to think about when I watch it next. Yeah. Good plain All right, Well, guys, thank you so much for joining us on this. I absolutely love breaking down the Undiscovered Country with you.

1:03:07 Again. I'm going to say it is it is my favorite Star Trek film of the og crew. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you absolutely, Thank you listeners for hanging out there with us. And if you have anything that you want to talk about, maybe we missed, maybe you want to jump on what we were talking about to discuss. You can always check us. Out at a film by podcast dot com for any film and TV articles in our entire library streaming free. You can write to us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We just may read your response on the show and send you some a film by Thank you so much and we will see you next time on another episode of Phasers. Step this stup