Ridley Scott - Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut Roadshow Version

0:00 What man is a man who does not make the world a better place. Today, we're discussing the director's cut road show version of a film by Ridley Scott, his underrated two thousand and five historical epic Kingdom of Heaven.

0:43 Hello everyone, I'm Jeff Johnson and this is a film by podcast. We have got a special guest with us today to discuss this film and perhaps help us gain a better understanding of it as well. Van Allen Plexico is a noted author, panel and creator of the White Rocket podcast network. He also happens to be a professor. Van Welcome back to the show. Hey, Jeff, thank you so very much. It is a privilege and honor to join you, and I'm looking forward to talking about my fourth favorite movie of all time. Fourth favorite Took It Well. You know what? Can I stop you right there? What's Van's top three? You open the door, man. We got to hear it.

1:25 Now, I did. There's only ever been two movies in my top two, and they switched around briefly in the early two thousands, and they've realigned themselves now. Number one is Star Wars. That's what it's the Star Wars. The original harmonies Harmonies Harmonies D Specialized cut. Number two is The Fellowship of the Ring and it briefly took number one and then moved back when the Harmonies version came out. And then number three is Ready Player one from twenty eighteen. That's a fantastic list, absolutely fantastic list. Van As a professor, can you share with us what your relationship is with Kingdom of Heaven. Yeah. I basically try to find any excuse I can to show movies that I love to my classes, if there's any possible way I can justify it. You know, if I could get Star Wars in there somewhere, man, we totally would be But you know, but this is one I definitely can justify because I teach a course on the history of religion, and I show Gandhi in the first half of the semester, and while we're doing the India segment talking about Hinduism and Buddhism and Sikhism and Jainism and all that and have good conversations about it.

2:36 And then in the second half of the semester, when we're heading toward the Middle East and doing Judaism and Christianity in Islam, this movie is just perfect right, because this movie shows the interaction of those religions. And I think the most important thing that this movie shows, and I like my students being exposed to this idea, is that it's not that one religion is completly right and all the others are just wrong. It's that human beings are right or wrong, and there can be good people in every religion and bad people in every religion. I think that that's by far the main message of this movie, and I enjoy like getting the students to think about that and discuss that.

3:17 I cannot agree with you more. That's a that's a fascinating way to look at this film. I gotta ask when you're when you're teaching this film, when when these students get to see this are they seeing the road show version or are they seeing the theatrical cut. I may have to leave this podcast now because you said the theatrical cut. Listen, we gotta we got to talk about it, just you know, the listener's got to understand, I know, is. A blight on humanity because it's it's rotten. Tomato score is the one that shows up even on the on the director's cut version, which galls me.

4:00 Oh, it's horrible. There's there's no way that the director's cut should have the theatrical cuts, cinema score or whatever, you know that number like wrotten Tomato forty or whatever. That's ridiculous. Nod the theatrical cut. I'll put it this way. I was This movie came out, I believe in four two thousand and five, right, okay, and I was flying either two or from Singapore, and it was well, it was available on the movies on the back of the seat in front of you that you could watch, and so I watched it, and because I had seen the ads for it, and it was funny. The thing that stuck out to me about the ads for it is legalless with hair on his chest being a manly night. What the heck is that? Right? Yeah, it made no sense to me.

4:45 So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna I'm just out of curiosity gonna watch it. And I watched it and it was the theatrical version, and I had no It made no impact on me. I had no memory of it. Later and I was just reading something like years later. I was just reading some website and the website said, you know, it was talking about director's cuts, and it said, of course, the greatest director's cut of all time is Kingdom of Heaven, said it improves the movie more than any other director's cut that's ever been made. And I'm like, oh, well, I need to find out about that. And so I got the Blu ray, which was like nine to ninety five on Amazon at that point, you know, wow, and cause it was that nobody wanted it, and I watched it and I was like, this is a masterpiece. This is unbelievably good. How do people not know this? And so I've just been on this you'll pardon expression here for this movie, this crusade, right, yeah, to spread the word of burn the negatives of the theatrical cut, burn it in a deep dark hole, never mention it again, and uh, and only watch the direct And in fact, one quick little story, if you don't mind, is when I did a White Rocket episode of it a couple of years ago. I had told my friend Jared Albrick, the yard sale artist, he was going to join Mark bisquetting me to do it. And in a separate segment, and I'm like, Jared, are you watching it? I texted him like, are you watching it? And he's like, yeah, I put it on and this and this happened, and

6:16 this happened. And I'm like, well, that doesn't seem right. I had told him up and down director's cut yep, and he's telling me this. He's like, and I said, Jared, how what's the running time on this thing you're watching. He's like, I it was like two and a half hours. I'm like, ejecked, stop on the board, throw it away. He's like, okay, you know, so yeah, I feel very strong about that. Obviously, this comes out in two thousand and five. I'm a huge fan of Ridley Scott's work. I mean, the man's a legend. And I go see this at the theater. I left. I felt cheated. What did I just see? That was a you know, I was let down, you know, and I thought, Okay, everyone's got a bad one in them.

6:57 This is Ridley's. But let's talk about the theatrical version versus the director's cut road show version. So the assembly edit of this film is two hundred and eighty minutes long. Ridley cuts it down to one hundred and eighty six minutes, and Fox executives order him to deliver a two hour cut. They're afraid people won't go to a theater and sit there for three hours, which I mean, that's kind of the normal now, right, right man? We had just had three Lord of the Rings movies make a billion dollars each that were three to three and a half hours long. What idiots, I I I. Yeah, so we get this theatrical release, which is a confusing mess that audiences and critics weren't happy with, you know, you and I among them. Yes, so let's talk about the road show version, because I know a lot of our listeners are like, what, what?

7:46 What's a road show version? What? You know? It's is it a director's cut? Is a road show version? This is a director's cut road show version? So you know, back in the day both I have, you have both? Okay, I have one that's just a director's cut. It's just mean just longer. The scenes have been restored, and then the road show has like an intermission stuff. Yeah. So you know road shows would generally mimic like a live theater production. These were these were limited engagements. You got maybe one or two shows a day at the upscale theaters, and uh, you know, they they had the overtures They had the intermissions, which which I love, I loved, you know, especially when you when you buy an older film, like you know, Cecil Beata Mill's The Ten Commandments. When you when you get the road show version, it's it just feels so much more like an event movie, right, bigger, Yeah, yeah, it's bigger, you know. So they were commonly used to promote major films from the nineteen twenties to the sixties to build this excitement, and it was this this whole practice was kind of done away with the blockbusters like once, you know, like Psycho Hits, people are lined up around the block and all of a sudden, distributors are like, we don't need these special events. We can just you know, if the movie's good enough, people will come out and droves, and you know, the roadshow event gives way to the blockbuster frenzy that that's going to take over. But it's a shame, man, because I I love, I love this this style. You know, screenings would be limited, like I said, to one or two a day. You had to reserve

9:17 your seats. These came with like souvenir programs that contained photos from the film, biographies about the cast. Every now and then you'd have like a little little uh opening segment from like the director or the theater manager. It was just it was a cool it was a cool time to go go to the theaters. And uh, I appreciate that that that Ridley gave us an opportunity like this. So uh with a runtime of one hundred and ninety four minutes, this version is critically praised. It's got nothing but positive reviews. Everyone loves this right, yes, no, and Ridley Ridley himself claims this is the one that should have gone out.

9:59 So oh yeah. Well, and he's notorious for re chopping and re chopping his movies to begin with. I mean he's done that on almost everything, so you know, I wasn't really surprised. It's just that it's it's just unfathomable to me that a studio executive or how many of her could could think that it would be preferable to put out a substandard product that's shorter, when they had just had the evidence in front of them a couple of years earlier that longer movies will do well if they're good. It's amazing, it's absolutely amazing. Well, I say one other thing about the road show version is the thing. You have to understand this. This is the key difference. Okay, most director's cuts just add in some extra stuff that you don't necessarily need. It's like they'll extend a scene. I mean, even the Lord of the Rings extended cuts, with the possible exception of removing Salamon from the from the Return of the King, you can get by with the theatrical and the end of Two Towers is kind of confusing. But other than that, you know, really the stuff that they added to the extended versions of those three it's not super necessary. You still get the story and it's and it's not that bad.

11:09 The difference here, what makes this director's cut different from all the others is that in the theatrical cut, they didn't just shorten scenes or tighten things up whatever. They removed entire plot lines and characters that you actually they're the ones you care about. Yeah, it's like if it's like if Return of the King was just the Battle of Mina's Taris and they took everything with Frodo and Sam going to Mordora with Gollum out, just took all that out and you just had a battle at the castle. That's that's basically what this is. You. Yeah, you mentioned that this is this is this might be the best version of a director's kind of a film, and with forty five additional minutes of character development and subplot that we desperately needed in your opinion, is this the Is this the best version of a director's cut of a film?

12:03 Oh? It's I mean, I don't even think of as a directors cut. It's a different movie. It's a completely different movie. And I mean, I think that the most egregious thing is how mind boggling it is when you watch the director's cut to realize the theatrical cut doesn't include. The little boy. He's completely scrubbed. That's like the main thing is that is that he's gonna become the king and then has leprosy or whatever. I mean that you know that whole because that that explains everything Eva Green does, and it explains why Orlando Bloom reacts the way he does. To Eva Green. I mean, it's it's it's all the motivation, right. It is funny, though I caught there's one place where putting the director's cut material in actually contradicted itself. Is when when the when? When? Uh? When Baileyan and Kid. I can't think of the character's name, but a lot of them characters don't even have a name. This yeah Kid from from Rome, Kid got Yeah. When they're having the seafood dinner in Italy, Yeah, and and uh Gee first comes up and and is being critical. After he walks away, Kid says he's going to be king in Jerusalem one day. Well, no, in the theatrical cut, he's going to be king in Jerusalem.

13:24 But in the director's cut, they don't know. The little boys got leprosy is gonna die. He would have outlived Ghee by a long way. So yeah, he was married to the to the mother of the of the future king, you know what I mean. But that's the only place I can see that they didn't really send it down right, you know. Yeah, And I you know what, I I can forgive him for that because that could just be that could just be like that guy's interpretation of of how how things are gonna line up. So you know, I'm good with that. Let's talk about this, Let's talk about this cast. And you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you the opportunity. You know, anyone that maybe I don't mention you bring them up, because this would be the road show version of a film. Buy if we talk about everyone I want to talk about. But let's let's start with the major players. Let's let's talk Orlando bloom As as Baillian.

14:14 Of is it ibiling iblin? Iblin? Okay, thank you. So he he's just completing filming on two thousand and four Ast Troy when he gets his screenplay in his hands, he doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to do yet another historical epic. And they're like, well, yeah, but this is Ridley Scott's next picture. And he's like, oh, in that case, I'm in. You know, he puts on twenty pounds of muscle to look the part of a blacksmith turned night, because you got to think, like in Troy, where he's playing Paris, he weighs like one hundred pounds wet. You know, he looks very, very soft. He this is not a night, This is not a blacksmith. So tell me about tell me about Lenda Blue, what your thoughts on his performance here?

14:58 You know, I wrestle with it because I feel like, I mean, he got critical, he got well and put how do you want to say it? He was criticized to a degree. People said he wasn't really up to being the big, macho leading man of a sprawling epic with a huge cast like this, And I get that. I think that this is a complicated character, right. He's kind of one half one half knight, a warrior, leader of men, organizer of defenses, wise counselor to king, designer of defenses blacksmith, right. But on the other hand, he's kind of this sensitive, quiet, emotionally injured guy whose wife and child have just died, and so he's got two very distinct sides to his character. I think that Orlando Bloom is outstanding in the latter, right. He does a great job as this young man whose family is dead.

16:00 He's got a horrible half brother, thinks he's act. He's got all this stuff going on around him, and he just kind of wants to sit there and sulk and be miserable. And he doesn't even mind he's in jail, yeah, because he's just sitting there thinking about his wife. Right. I think Orlando Broom does spectacular there. And I always have a hard time people say who would be a better person in this role. And I have a hard time because I can think of somebody would be better on one side, but wouldn't be as good on the other. Right, Like if you could if you put if you put Gladiator Russell Crowe, you put Russell Crowe in the second half of the movie, I think he'd be really good as that Bailey, But I don't think he'd work in the first half of the movie as the young man that's lost his family and this kind of sung. He wouldn't be quite as good and and and and the same thing the other way around if you put some you know. So the the one person that I thought of that I think could have done this, oddly enough, is Viggo Mortensen, because as as Eric, we see him play that kind of character. Yeah, I don't know if you'd wanted him to two years after Return of the King to turn around and play basically the same character again, probably the same character. I mean, he he's the reluctant warrior who's kind of emotional introspective but has to become a warrior and a leader at a and defend a defend a castle basically, right.

17:23 Yeah, yeah, you're under siege. Yeah, he's basically the same character in a lot of ways. So that's the only person I could think that would work, maybe even better than Orlando. I like that choice. Uh. And to your point, yeah, Orlando is fast, he's he's just fascinating in the in this film, especially you know, the first act, he's he's extraordinary. Yes, I don't know. Yeah, And to your point, him leading an army, him him rousing the troops, it felt a little it felt just slightly off, you know, like maybe maybe I'm you know, you know, he he he just didn't have the that that stature that you know, like like mel Gibson and Braveheart, where you can give a speech and then everyone's just cheering and they're you know, they're pumped and they're ready for this battle. Orlando falls a little a little under on that, on that guard. I'm with you on that.

18:21 Well, you know, a young Mel Gibson could have probably pulled it off too. That's the interesting point. How about uh, how about younger Kenneth Brennach. Oh yeah, yeah, I be for you. I think he could have done it. Let's talk Uh, let's talk about Liam Neeson playing God for you, so knowing nothing about the Crusades, Allegedly, his research included The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Crusades by Paul L. Williams, which he says was extremely informative. And this is this required reading for your class. Another reads that one. But yeah, I heard of that one. But that that works, I mean, you know, that's interesting, mentioned Lennison. I'm just gonna throw this out real quick. One of the things I love about this movie, it's like is it's like ten different movies. It's like every fifteen minutes or so, the cast completely changes and the location completely changes. So there's like you're into the Liam Neeson movie right now, but later there's there's the Jeremy Irons movie. There's Edward Edward Vie, there's a lot of Eva Green movie, and then there's the whole war movie. You know. It's yeah, it's like totally different movies. It's and then and the guy that plays I can't even think of his name again, but there's uh, his his right hand.

19:41 Okay, oh yeah, yeah. Bella bor topic. Yeah, he's a lot as like the right hand man guy, you know. So yeah, you know he wasn't I mean, that guy was fantastic. He wasn't even on my radar to talk about today. But you're credit where credits due? Yeah, I liked it. This is like a revolving door. Everyone everyone's getting their chance and and I, you know, like Liam Neeson, I could have probably spent like another thirty minutes on the on the on the road to Jerusalem with limb. Oh. Yes, it turns into the Barbarian movie. Yes, it's totally a Konean movie there. Yeah, it's fantastic. Big the big German guy is awesome. That the whole thing where he says, you say this is true, I say that. So we'll fight and God will decide. God decides, Hospitallery says, my German friend is a is a very close student of the law.

20:35 Yes, yeah, what is it? The sheriff. You know, he comes to collect Orlando Bloom, who's who's just murdered his his half brother. Briefly, let's you know, a quick moment about Michael Sheen and how despicable he is, right and this movie and talk about come up. And I think that's one of the most spectacular moments in this picture because Orlando Bloom's character has been like you said, he's been sitting there sulking in prison. You know, he's getting slapped in the face, he's he's he's just weak, and then he just comes alive. When you're you're talking, uh, you're talking to Sparage about his uh, his dead wife and child.

21:16 So that the trigger, that was the trigger. Yeah, your your wife is in hell and she has no head. Yeah, and she has no head, and that's gonna get you. Yeah, that's gonna get your sword through the chest, uh, into the. Fire, through the chest, into the fire. That's right. The look of abject terror on Michael Sheen's face in that when you're when he's in the flames, that's one of the that's such an awesome shot. I love it. But uh but yeah, so so Balin's he's wanted for murder and this German guy who's uh on the on the road with limbnies and I love that moment. Yeah, we'll fight for it and God will tell us who's right.

21:58 It's just fantastic. He takes an arrow to the throat man and keeps still keep he just keeps fighting. Yeah. I'll just note, by the way, if they were in Texas and not France, Bailey and would totally exonerated because they'll he needed killing defense, right, that need to kill him? He needed killing? Case dismissed, case slows right. Yeah, David Theulis as Hospitaler. My favorite character. There you go, you've hit my favorite character in the movie. Let's talk about him. Hospitaler doesn't even have a name, he's just Hospitaler. And you learn a couple of things about him that I mean, because they just drop little bits here and there, like there's a you know, when they're having dinner with Liam Neeson's older brother in the castle up on the hill, the older brother, the lord says, I prefer my priests to be priests and my warriors to be warriors or knights or whatever, and not mix the two. And and David Thulis kind of blows it off. But what he's saying is the hospit Twalers were kind of that mixture.

23:01 They were sometimes they were warriors. They wore the armor, had the swords and everything, and you see him fighting, but he's also kind of a religious figure, kind of a priest, kind of a monk, that kind of a thing. Because the hospitality Knights were different from the templars. The templars were a lot more ruthless. I think, yeah, that wasn't their original mission statement, but they kind of were interesting too that the hospitalities are still around the day and the templars are long gone, so that just you know, shows you who had the longevity and who really was seen as contributing to society more. I think I'm of a mind that any film that has David Thulis in it is a better film with David Thulass in it. I've never seen him deliver a bad performance. I don't care what the film is. He's incredible.

23:45 Do you do you want to talk now about his character and and all the fan theories. Let's do it, lay it out. Do you know about him? I don't. You've just you've just the light bulb. I'm like, wait, what what are we talking about here? So here we go. He is professor. There are two moments in particular. I mean, there's there's other things that contribute to this, but there's two moments that really make this, make this legit, I think, all right, So hospitaller. David Thulis leads Baileyan through Jerusalem when he first gets there, and he says, he shows him the templar knights being executed for killing Arabs, and he has that incredible line where Baileian says, they're being killed for doing what the pope would have them do, and and David Thulis says, yes, but not Christ, I think. And that's one of the first times in the movie that you realize that there's there's organized religion in this movie, and then there's doing the right thing. And they're not always they're not always on the same page, right, the same thing? All right. So Hospitaler is already laying out the idea that he's speaking for Christ and for God rather than for the church. Okay, And he tells Baileian what's in he and what's in here? By that you will be a good man or not? Okay. Well, now flash fast forward to later. Baileien is miserable, he's lost everything.

25:10 He's sitting out in the desert the burning bush scene, Yes, the little kreosoap bush catches fire, and he's sitting there and who comes up behind him and talks to him Hospitaler? Hospitaler, that does not mean there is no God. Do you love her? Yes? Your loyalties to the city, right, all that. Yeah, So Baileien turns back and looks at the bush the second bush catches fire, he turns around again, where is Hospitaler? He's gone, He's not what you know what, You're right, He's completely gone. Yeah, but he's gone. Okay, so he just disappears straight up into heaven. Gone. It's a desert.

25:51 Nowhere to go. He's gone. Where was he? Yeah? Right? Where is he now? When Baileyan then gets up and goes to the little village and has the fight with the templars that he has sent to murder him. Yeah, he beats them, but he's lying on the ground, unconscious or dead. How does he wake up? He wakes up to uh, the Hospitaler's face. Hospitaler touches in between the eye and then he wakes up. Where's Hospitaler? Nowhere to be found again? He's gone. The fan theory is Hospitaler is an angel or God himself. Oh. I love that. He really only talks to Bailey in the entire movie. I mean he talks to he talks to Count, He talks to Bailian's dead early on.

26:35 Yeah, he talks to Godfrey, and then he. Talks to An. Then he talked and then once once once uh, Godfrey's dead. He only really talks to to Baileyan and even says, I'll tell your father what I've seen you become his father's dead. Oh wow, I I'm putting this together now. And yeah, yeah, the theory that that hospitaler you know doesn't have a name, he's just he's a hospitaler. The idea that he is an angel looking out for them, you know, that's fantastic. I'm all in on it. I'm all in on it, you know. Love. I mean, otherwise, where does he goes? He gets beamed up onto the enterprise, I mean, you don't disappear.

27:17 So yeah, I guess part of me was, you know, because this is such a sprawling, epic, part part of my brain was just like not worried about where he had went in these moments. But now that you're putting it front, front and center, I'm like, wait a minute, Yeah, that that that tracks. I love it. I absolutely love it. Man. It probably was my ninth time seeing it when I figured out I've seen it a lot. Yeah, there's things you have to watch a movie a lot of times to cats, and that's one of them. So Eva Green oh. Man, perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, so good. I love I love the fact that I don't care what the topic is van I feel like you and I always get the opportunity to somehow take it back to uh to James Bond And yes, I'm reading, I'm reading about I'm reading about Eva Green. Her performance in this film is directly responsible for her being chosen to play Vesper lynd in Casino Royale.

28:13 Really. Yeah, like they're looking, they're looking for the next Bond girl. They saw her in this and they said, that's that's Vesper you know, and think about think about her performance. I mean, think about obviously she's strikingly beautiful, but think about how strong she is in this film, the character that she plays is, and think about Vesper Lynde. I see a lot of what vesperland is or will become in her performance in this film. Yeah, what's your what's your thoughts here? No, I think you're absolutely right. I didn't realize that part, but it totally makes sense. The other thing that because that came out in two thousand and six, so that would be the probably the next thing she did. The only thing that's the thing that strikes me ironic about that is the one actress that I can think of that I think would have been as good or better as a French princess. Us is LEAs to do from the next two bond.

29:06 That was. She has to look too. She looks as good as Eva Green and she's French. You know. Yeah, I'm not gonna debate you on that. And again I I don't know, Uh, there is no wrong answer there. But actually I actually love what Eva Green is doing in this in this role is the queen and uh just fantastic, you know. And I'm gonna throw out a little uh love to the grave Digger. I know, we weren't gonna probably gonna mention him. Yeah, pops up at the beginning. He's the one that is getting crap thrown at him by the brother, the priest, you. Know, the clip dear. Yeah, yeah, I haven't. I have a notched ear because I love justice and because you and then and then we and then this is what's funny. I always ask my students when he when they when he shows up again in Jerusalem and Armor, I always stop and say, anybody know who that is? And they're like, you know, like that's the grave Digger. From the beginning, he says, master grave Digger, and he's and then and then he has the scene what made me think of it. He has a scene with Eva Green where he says, what would you say to somebody who you know, gave everything up to come down here and then you know whatever, And she says, I would say I'm sorry, and he calls her Queen of Jerusalem or something, you know, because you recond reading with her hair cut off and all.

30:26 So I just love that. I love her interaction with the other characters besides Baileyan too. Yeah, well just that in that in that moment you're talking about where she interacts with the grave digger. I love the fact that she's you know, she cuts her hair off and she you know, removes the jewelry and she's just down there nursing the injured back to health, you know, trying to take care of him. And that speaks volumes about her her character and and you know what what her what her morality is. I feel like, you know, because she's just seen her brother's face when he died, and so when she's looking in the mirror while she's cutting her hair, she sees her own reflection twisted and it turns in and twisted.

31:07 Yeah, that's a haunting moment too, because I'm like, as I'm watching and I'm like, wait, what am I? What am I watch? What's going on here? And then and then he kind of clicks in your head like she's she's seeing herself for what she could be or what she what she is or what you know. Absolutely just stunning performance by her. Uh let's talk about the Jeremy Irons movie. He's playing Tiberius. He's kind of the Constable of Jerusalem, right, that was the impression I got. Like the he's like the police That's what I always described my student. He's kind of the police chief for the Christians, and so he's the guy in charge of kind of keeping law in order, and he wants Bailian to be around because he figures he can help. Yeah, Jeremy Irons is great in this.

31:50 Tiberius is a really cool character. Again, there's not a lot of explanation about him. He just you show up in his police chief office and they lead him or he leads them around little bit explained stuff, and then when the going gets tough, he's like, all right, I'm out of here. By he's doing he. Says, I'm going to cypress or multips, I think, yeah, Yeah, he's extraordinary. Yeah. Another extraordinary performance. Uh the role of uh Reynold, who is played by Brendan Gleeson read noticed. I kind of feel like Ridley's like, hey, I need you to dial this up to like a seven or eight, and he goes full eleven. He break goes out.

32:36 Yes. I have no doubt in my mind that Brendan Gleeson was using that line to psych himself up, and Ridley's like, just keep doing that. It's good, Yeah, work, go for it. I don't think that was in the script. I think that he's just everywhere he's in the movie, he's just going I have read shot own just it just works, you know. Yeah. One other performance I want to briefly discuss. Let's talk about King Baldwin. Oh gosh, yes. Okay, So Edward Norton he comes in, Yeah, he comes in to read for the role of Gee and then chooses the concealed role of King Baldwin and says, hey, I don't't even be credited. I kind of feel like this is Edward Norton who is like, He's like, look, I'm gonna I'm gonna sneak in. I'm gonna put it on a masterclass on how to how to perform and no one's even gonna know, and you know, and it works, I mean the first the first couple. Like I I know for a fact, the first two times I saw this film, all you can see is like a hint of his eyes and his voice is so soft, and I'm like, I know I've heard the voice, I just don't know who it is. And then when you realize that this is Edward Norton in this role might be one of his best performances ye have his career, I have to say, yeah.

33:54 I mean, you know, we've seen actors be able to act well through a lot of makeup. I always think of, you know, Jakar and Babylon five, for example, who is just a master through all the through all that narn makeup, but through a freaking metal mask. You can't get anything out except your voice. Your voice and the eyes. Right. Yeah, but he's absolutely hypnotic. This this character is he's frightening, just and I and what frightening by bye bye by way of his his look that mask is is a little terrifying, you know. Yeah, but he's also your heart breaks from what once you realize his situation, your your heart breaks from and you're like, you know what, he's one of the good guys. I want I want, you know, I want him to be protected.

34:42 I want him to be the good king. And it's just, uh, it's one of the best performances in the film. It truly is. When a great battle. When I was a teenager or whatever, now I realize I want to see thirty and you'reize man, younger than you thought, you know, he's yeah. Yeah, it's fantastic. Van, Let's let's take a quick break and when we get back, we'll we'll talk a little bit about the film's background. Welcome back here with Van Allen Plexico discussing the director's cut road show version of Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven. So Van. The screenwriter here William Monaghan, who you may know. You may have that name.

35:27 He was the writer of Martin Scorsese's That Departed. But before that, he writes a specscript called Triply about William Eaton's march on Tripoli. Is it tripley or Tripoli trip tripley? Triple yeah, thank you. He writes his script about William Eaton's march on Tripoli during the Barbary Wars, it finds its way into Ridley Scott's hands, who then meets with Monahan and starts sharing his desire to direct a film about knights. And you know, William Monahan's here to sell tripley. But he's like, you, look, you know, Ridley, if you want to do a movie about knights, you know, do a film about the Crusades. And he says, and I'm quoting him here, You've got every conceivable plot imaginable there, which is far more exotic than fiction. And in that pitch, Scott is instantly enamored with him. He hires him to write the screenplay that will eventually become Kingdom of Heaven.

36:21 And he does what he does. He does this deal where's he gets to stay on through production so that if Ridley wants to make any changes to the script or he wants to rewrite a scene, William Monaghan is on set to make those changes throughout the entire production. Perfect awesome deal, and especially in a movie like this, excellent choice. Well, and as you said, originally it was going to be really, really even longer. And my favorite little factoid about that, which you probably know, is that when they got the script from him, it was so long that they said, there's no way we can even begin to do this. The studio would just never even let us attempt it. It's like two movies, you know. And so Ridley and his secretary sat down and they just deleted every stage direction from the entire script, so it was nothing but dialogue. And when they did that, they got it down to like three hours and said, okay, now the studio will think it's a shorter movie. They just they just made it look shorter by taking everything out that wasn't dialogue.

37:23 Fantastic, Absolutely fantastic. And I gotta tell you some of the you know, I know, we'll talk about a couple couple notable scenes here. This is one of the better, better scripts. I think that that came along awesome. I can see why he's I can see why after this he's writing the party for Scorsese. I can see why it's it's getting nominated for an Academy Award. The guy's amazing. More amazing is the music by Harry Gregson Williams Man. I love this score. I absolutely love this. So it's so varied and diverse. It's not just like a one note thing. I mean, you know, say what you will about like John Williams or whatever, and its beautiful scores, but they all sound like pretty much the same orchestra doing different songs, whereas this sounds like different, completely different people doing different types of music every track.

38:17 Yeah, he's I feel like he's the most sampling to an extent of kind of picking and choosing what works and what doesn't. Fantastic look a score like this, I couldn't resist. Had to tap Wayne Whited from our phaser set to stun Star Trek series because, as we all know, Wayne loves a good film score. So Wayne, if you would please take it away. Kingdom of Heaven, Ridley Scott's massive historical epic from two thousand and five. I'll admit I didn't see this one in theaters, waiting for the highly anticipated DVD release later that year so I could watch this in the comfort of my own home. The film is beautiful. The cinematography, the costume jumes, the designs are all incredible to watch.

39:03 But one element that I did enjoy immensely was the score, beautifully composed by Harry Gregson Williams. The original composer attached to this film was Hans Zimmer It was a composer that Ridley Scott had used before in films like Hannibal, Blackhawk, Down Film and Louise, but he had to pull out from working on this film to score DreamWorks Animated film At a GASCAR, Zimmer suggested British composer Harry Gregson Williams to replace him, who took a completely different approach to scoring this film compared to Zimmer's earlier Gladiator score. Gregs and Williams had been around in Hollywood for nearly a decade at this point, hitting the ground with a score for Michael Bay's nineteen ninety six film The Rock and moving on to scores such diverse films like The Replacement Killers Ants, Prince of Egypt, Phone Booth, and of course he scored Shrek. Gregs and Williams wrote a massive score for Full or Orchestra, beautifully performed by the London Session Orchestra and enhanced with massive and powerful choir, adding weight and dramatic intensity to the score. Another unique touch that he brought was his use of the viol that's best described as a mini cello. It's played by the English musician group Fretwork. It's heard best in the cues on the soundtrack titled Burning the Past and to Jerusalem. Other cues like the Battle of Carric are pulse pounding action cues full of heavy percussion and phrensious orchestra. The film

40:37 does contain quite a few tracked pieces music from other sources, not specifically composed for this film, but used by the director, mostly coming from the temp track that really Scott had assembled during the editing of this film. Many are contemporary or historical pieces, such as the music played during Reynard's death scene, the scene where Baileian and Cymbala are having sex, or the execution of Roger Decormier. Others came from various film soundtracks, such as the funeral music for King Baldwin, which was taken from Hans Zimmer's score to the movie Hannibal, the discussion of the Terms of Surrender, which come from the score to Blade two by Marco Biltromi, and the nighting scene, which is actually the track Thehalla Viking Victory from Jerry Goldsmith's amazing score to the Thirteenth Warrior. My opinions of tracked music in a film can be rather harsh.

41:29 I feel at most times that it burdens the film and feels out of place should be avoided. But Ridley Scott is well known for using tracked music in his films, the film Alien being one of the most well known and notorious examples, which caused a riff between director and composer Jerry Goldsmith. He refused to follow it and accept any of Riddy Scott's suggestions. In a way, I find it somewhat disrespectful for the director to use tracked music in place of something that's been originally composed, and that the film should be an accumulation of the work of all parties involved, a piece of art created by many talented experts, each bringing their own vision to the project. Instead, we only get what the director wants, damaging the work that's been done. We don't need Norman Rockwell painting a smile on Da Vinci's Lona Lisa. That's the way I feel about this. The soundtrack to Kingdom of Heaven was released by Sony Classical on April twenty six, two thousand and five, containing nineteen tracks, which is a little over an hour of music from the film. It included the track Light of Life featuring singer Natasha Autlass It's a great listen both during the film and separate as a work of musical genius, as one of the gleaming highlights in Greg's and Williams's career, highly revere and sought after by soundtrack collectors. Hopefully, one day this score will get a full and complete release, allowing us to hear this masterpiece as it was originally intended. But until then, the original album is still available to pert from any favorite

43:01 soundtrack website. Thank you. Wayne could not agree more. I love what he said about Goldsmith. I knew I when I talked Van, when I talked about doing this to him, He's like, well, you know there's some Goldsmith's stuff happening there. I was like, well, that's why I'm asking you, Wayne. So two things I would mentioned at the score. One is, yeah, it's it's one of my other top ten movies that they borrowed from The Thirteenth Warrior. Yeah, and it always that's the one thing that takes me out of this movie is We're trying to have the battle, and all of a sudden, I'm waiting for Vikings in an Arab to show up and start fighting. The Vendel stops saying it.

43:43 But the other thing about it is, if you've noticed, every time somebody gets brutally killed, a choir comes in singing, and so it kind of and only takes the edge off of it, or it makes it seem like, well, this this was fate or something. But there's some thing about as soon as like somebody gets an axe to the skull, you hear, oh, changes the mood. It's really interesting how they did that. Yeah. Absolutely, So let's talk Van. I know this is not gonna be easy for us, but uh, if we could discuss a few noteworthy scenes here and maybe maybe what you feel is the pivotal moment I want to I want to open up. Let's talk about Baillian's meeting King Baldwin for the first time and this conversation about how the whole world is in chess.

44:35 Yes, I think you're right, that's what I was. Immediately when you said pivotal I started going, oh my gosh, so many, so many, And I said, you know what, I think the pivotal moment in this movie is that meeting and then the second meeting when when when Jeremy Irons is there with them. Okay, those are the two key that's what the whole thing turns on. I love this moment. You know, any move in chess can be the death of you. You know, you do anything except mn where you step where you started, and you can't be sure of your end. Were you sure of your end once? Yes, Baileian has this great moment. He tells him, you know, yeah, it was to be buried one hundred yards from where I was born. But now I'm sitting in Jerusalem looking upon a king again.

45:23 William Monahan, what writing here? What a great moment, you know for these two. But I mean, he squeezes in that critically important piece of information just out of nowhere. And at the time it happens, you're thinking, Okay, he's just throwing out some cool he's dropping some cool wisdom. I'm the king, let me drop some knowledge on you. And then later on you realize, oh, that's why he told Baileyan that, so he could have it thrown back in his face. Yes, yes, he tells Baileyan. He tells Baileyan, whatever you do, it's on you. It's on your soul. You cannot stand before God and say, but somebody else made me do this, somebody else. You know, it is on you. I'm paraphrasing obviously, yes, yes.

46:07 So then the other half of that scene is later on they say, all right, we're gonna kill gee. You get to be king or protector or whatever, you get to marry Sibylla. Would that be so bad? Huh huh huh. I'll take, I'll take, I know it. And he's like, I can't be the cause of that. Yeah, And he's like, you said whatever you want, right, you said you do whatever we want. And he looks at the king and says and basically quotes him back to him and the king and he said said this, and the King is like, yes, I did, so be it. And that's where he's like, I'm not gonna be just another lackey murdering people to keep power. I can't. It's got to be a kingdom of conscience or nothing.

46:50 That's one of Orlando Bloom's better moments in this movie too, when he when he kind of turns it back on on the king. Love that moment. Uh, let's dial let's let's head back before Jerusalem though, when when we're talking about the Conan the Barbarian movie, as you as you said, Godfrey Knighting Baillian is another moment I absolutely love in this film. Uh Nissan is giving an incredible performance as a dying man working his way through a ceremony, and I'm buying into it. I'm I'm I'm legitimately concerned for Liam Neeson's health in this scene because he looks like he is a dying man and that smack. I love that moment too, when he smacks him and he says, that's to remind you of what what what your oath is? Yeah, what a great moment, you know.

47:37 Yeah, and then he and then see the whole movie is Bailean learning from people and then applying it himself. And he then goes and knights half of Jerusalem's commoners and does the same thing to the little acolyte kid. Yeah, smacks. He's absorbed the lesson from the king and will not manipulate people, and he's absorbed the lesson from his father about how to be a nye. He just keeps learning stuff and then applying it. I want to point out one other thing though, that I think that we haven't really touched on because it's hard. There's so much right, so much. We got to talk about the Arab characters because they're. Okay, yeah, please Yeah. Al Dean, that actor's fantastic. He looks like a heavy he looks like he's going to be Darth Vader of the Desert, right, and you realize he is awesome. I would follow Al Dean way before I would follow half of the half of the Crusader guys. Right, he's so cool and his and his right hand man is Julian Bashir right from Star trek Ye. There's a great job.

48:36 There's that whole scene in the desert when he fights him and he loved that moment. His bodyguard or whatever, he was that man. You were not that man servant. He was mine, you know? He was mine? Yeah, you will. Your quality will be known to your enemies long before you meet them. My friend, and that he makes an impression on him from the beginning, and then we and then the other interesting, really interesting Arab character, Muslim character is the third one. There's really three that we know. Right. There's there's best Year I can't I think people names are in terrible names. And there's Salah Alden and there's the guy Mark Bisquett and I when we reviewed this movie several years ago, we had no idea what to call this guy, and we settled on the NFL team owner of the If you think of the Muslim Army as like an NFL team, they've brought it.

49:25 They say, we've brought in Salah al Din as the coach. You're going to coach him up and win the game. Coach, you report to the owner and he's like that mom right in black. Yeah, And he kind of. Comes in like he's Jerry Jones with the Dallas Cowboys and it's like, hey, I didn't run the ball up the middle there? What third? You know? And and and they have that tension between them. Yeah, it's really he's a very unlikable character. In fact, when Salah Alden chops off Reneeda Chatillon's head after after the Horns of Hatton Battle, Salah al Din does that like it's a duty he doesn't want to do, but he has to. Yep, who's grinning when he does it?

50:11 The NFL Jerry Jones is right, that's exactly Jerry L. Jones, That's exactly. Yeah. I will I will agree with you, though, of the three Alexander sadig Uh planning is a mod the the friendship, the friendship that he has with with Bailien. Though it's it's a it kind of reminds me of loosely reminds me of Morgan Freeman and Kevin Costner and Prince of Thieves, where, yes, these are guys from different paths who are connected and I just I just I the back and forth between them is fantastic and that I've loved. I've been a fan of that guy's work since I saw him in Vertical Limit. Uh, playing one of the brothers that that gets gets killed on the mountain.

51:02 Guy's incredible. Uh, He's there's something about him. He has such a friendly disposition. Yes that like even like this is this is your enemy, but you know what, let's let's talk a nice guy. They recognize in each other a person of honor, a goodness, and that cuts through the cuts through the organized religion aspect, that cuts through the my camp versus your camp. We respect each other. And yeah, absolutely, and if if if Alexander Sidig's character had been captured by the Crusaders, Baileyan would have been standing up for him, you know, because later later Saladin says, maybe you should have killed him, and Alexanderstek says, maybe I should have had a different teacher. Yeah. Another again, another another great moment. And and one thing I appreciate about their meeting, their initial meeting. You don't expect any kind of levity or comedic moments in this film and a film like this, right, But I love the idea where he's like, yeah, he's you know, he's He says, that's his horse. He's like, well, no, I got this horse from the the water.

52:02 Yeah. Oh, you're gonna have to fight for it. Well that's so good. Yeahs later it's not a very good horse. Yeah, it's not a very good horse. He gives it back to very God. Yeah. I love it. Uh, Van, I'll ask you. I got one more, one more quick scene i'd like to like to talk about. But before I do, I want to ask you, is there is there any other go to scene, like any other scene we need to discuss before we move on. You know, I guess there's so many, but so many. I know again, I I I think it's really important we understand that there some people, some people have a we haven't talked about this. Some people have a problem with this movie because they say it makes the Christians look bad and the Muslims look good and if you're kind of like on Team Crusader, I could see. You know, I understand that, but I disagree because there are Christians in it that are good and bad, and there are Muslims in it that are good and bad. That's why Jerry Jones is in it. He's a bad Muslim.

52:56 He's a bad Muslim. He's a bad Muslim. But I love that at the end when they when the when the Muslim army takes the city, Salah al Din is very respectful. Right, they're tearing down the banners and everything, but he walks around the cross. He picks up the cross thing on the counter. I mean, they knew all of that basically to show he he he had to take over the city. He was absolutely It's like winning the Super Bowl for him. He's gonna get fired if he doesn't know, may be killed, but he's not gonna burn down the opponent stadium. He respects the other team. Let's let's talk about burning down the stadium because you know, again, another moment, and this isn't even the moment I wanted to end on, but you know, I love where after you know, we're on day three of the siege and here comes the white flag from U from the Muslims.

53:45 So I'm like, you know, and we haven't seen this in a while. You're like, oh, wait, is that? Is that? What happened? Do they did? They give up? They go out there to say, hey, look, you know what's done is done. Let's you know, take safe paths pass to just leave and Landa Bloom has that great moment where he's like, before I'm gone, I will burn this place to the ground. Every stone will fall, you know, just intent on not giving in. And and Saladin's he's honorable. He's like, look, it doesn't have to be this way. Let's just you take safe passage, just you know, concede, and he does. And it's a good moment between the two. Yeah, obviously, I think it's the I love the way sal Aldine's act the actor in those name. I love how he plays that, which is when when Bailean says, I'll burn it all down, I'll destroy every stone, will rip everything down, Your holy place is ours whatever, and Saladin's kind of like then it comes like a business negotiation, right because again salal Din, he he says, what is Jerusalem worth? Nothing?

54:47 Nothing? Everything? Everything all right. Well he when when Baileyan says I'm gonna do all this, Saladeen's kind of like he's in in the go. He's like, okay, so you're gonna tear it all down? Then, like I need you just say that, Yeah, so I can go back to my boss and say, yeah, I had to let him go. They were going to destroy it, you know what I mean. Yeah, just from his subtle performance there, you it conveys the sense that Salaudin wants to let him go and he needs a reason, and Bailean gives him the reason to let them go, which is I had to let him go because otherwise they were going to destroy the whole thing. So and my hands are tied boss. Yeah, and let's talk about this humanity for a minute, because he reminds he has to remind Baillion, you know you got a lot of women and children in there. Okay, and then it kind of it's clicking, but like you said, it's a business transaction. Okay, yeah, good, good point, Salaudine. Okay, you know what, we'll we'll we'll leave, we'll we'll take it.

55:41 One last scene. Uh and it's and it's the last scene. Baillion meeting King Richard the Lionheart. At the film's end, m the epic quote, I am the Blacksmith man. What a what an incredible way to end this film. Man, I'm glad you mentioned in the because there's two things I want to mention there. Yes, I love I love that. It's the guy that we saw in Uh it's the greyscale guy from Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. Yeahs as I'm the King of England Blacksmith. He's like, I'm done. Yeah, you can see Richard Loinehart looks at him like right, yeah, So that looked like sure you you're not Baileyen.

56:26 He's like, now I'm the Blacksmith all right. And it's funny because at the beginning of the movie he ends up chasing after the party that comes through looking for him. This time he's like, no, been there, done that. You guys have fun storm in the castle. I'm going to stay here now. I love that, And and that put put a pin in that because there's something very important I got to mention there. But I also want to mention the end when he rides he God, there's so much about this. Early on it shows Baalien's wife planting the tree. Yes, and the whole time it's winter and the tree is dead like his wife. Yes. But at the end he's at the crossroads. Well before he's at the crossroads at the end there the tree has bloomed, the little tree she planet has bloomed. And he's at the crossroads kind of saying goodbye to her.

57:18 And then he gets on his horse and who comes up but Eva Green. She's learned how to stop. She said, when you can stop being a queen, I'll be here for you. Yeah. And they ride together. And there was two versions of that. One version he wrote off by himself. She wasn't there, and they're terrible. Yeah, they tested it with audiences and audiences liked it better that she goes with him and they ride off into the sunset together, which I think is absolutely the right choice. We needed that for Baillion, you know, because we know the whole reason he accepts Godfrey's offer to go to Jerusalem is will I be absolved of my sins? Will my wife? Can I absolve my wife?

57:59 Wife? That's it. He's doing this. This whole thing is just to absolve his wife. He can't the the idea of him of his wife in hell, you know, without her head. As Michael she once said, he can't he can't handle that, you know, And I love that he has that tender moment, you know, when he's thinking about her in Jurisom. He's like, how can how can you be in hell when when you're in here? And he points at his heart. So yeah, and we need this guy needs a happy ending. Come on, he's saying goodbye to her there at the end, he's moving forward. Yeah, and all right, I got and and then the one last thing I got to read I put the pen in. It was when the King came by. Because here's the other fact to what I love about this. Really, Scott then did Robin Hood. People hated that movie because it's not a Robin Hood movie.

58:45 And it's not a Robin Hood movie. You know what it is though. It's the sequel to Kingdom of Heaven because it picks up with Richard the Lionheart on his way back. This movie ends with him on his way to the Holy Land to fight, and Robin Hood picks up with him same character on his way back. And if you watch him back to back, it's spectacular. It is the unofficial sequel are. You creating a double feature that I got to watch now? I am. I'm telling you. If you watch them back to back, the director's cut of both, it's it's like Baileyan steps off the stage and Russell Crowe's character, Robin Hood steps on, and it carries on basically the same kind of story.

59:26 It works so well back to back if you just don't think of it as a Robin Hood movie, just think of as what happened next? After all, I think of it as a Crusade movie. Yeah, okay, No, I gotta watch it because you know, I've just watched this one recently. I'm ready. I'm ready for it because I liked Russell Crow's Robin Hood. Didn't love it, right, but you might have. You might have just given me a new path forward. You know, I might have to love it. Now. That's it. People wanted, you know, the old the standard Robin Hood story, the Kevin Costner, the Eryl Flynn, and I get that completely. Yeah, it doesn't work in that way, but it works as the next chapter in the Kingdom of Heaven story. All right, Well, let's take one last break and then when we come back, Van and I will talk a little bit about Ridley Scott. Welcome back. It is time to discuss Ridley Scott van a new thing we started doing this season. I said, I giving you the book report, which well, as a professor, you probably would have preferred the book report, you know, to grade. But let's talk three facts, bits of trivia if you will, and maybe a quote from Ridley Scott. So first one I got for you when you take into account the just how overwhelming this film is. You know how many people are involved.

1:00:44 Oh yeah, it's all about who you know. King Mohammed the sixth of Morocco happens to be a close personal friend of Ridley Scott's, which is why he personally provided a detachment of fifteen hundred personnel with equipment for the film Military personnel. Mind you when you got that card in your back pocket and you're looking at Fox, so hey, don't worry about extras. I got it covered. King of Morocco is a friend. We got this. How amazing is that? Right? Yeah? That's nice. I mean, yeah, it's it's interesting the countries that have provided extras in war movies. Poland provided all the soldiers in Waterloo, and and it was the Irish in saving Private Ryne on Normandy Beach, and so you got all these Moroccans love it.

1:01:31 And what's funny is depending on the day, you know what scene we're shooting these Moroccans. Some days they're playing Crusaders, some days they're playing Muslims. It's just you know, like, oh, which costume am I putting on this morning? I think it's fantastic. Ridley Scott has long suffered from claustrophobia, like his entire life, and he used this as a device to evoke fear in nineteen seventy nine eight Alien by making sure the interiors of the Nostromo were very tight, closed quarters and felt cramped. And think about it, when you watch that movie, everything just feels claustrophobic like that.

1:02:11 You know, even the xenomorph it's always hiding right there in the shadows up on the ledge or in the It's a creepy feeling, right, And he wants you to feel claustrophobic. It's a fear of his. He wants to He wants you to have that same fear. So you know, look for that, And like next time you watch Realley Scott movie, look look for that. If it's a moment where you need to have a little bit of fear, or if it's a if it's a scary film, chances are you're gonna see claustrophobia in it. Another one for you, and you know I love a good love story. Early on, during his work directing commercials before he's a feature film director, he directed one for Maxwell House Coffee which start a young woman named Shakira. No, not that Shakira, but when Michael Kane saw this commercial, he was so taken with her that he worked tiressly to find her and van As of today, they've been married more than thirty years.

1:03:12 I'm talking about Shakira King. What how about that she shows up at a Ridley Scott commercial and the next thing you know, Michael Kine is waking up and having coffee with her. The next thing to shake her hips though, that's the question. We only Michael Kine would know. I think, and related to that a quote, a little quick quote for you. You don't see sex scenes in a Ridley Scott movie. Ever, there's a reason Ridley. I'm quoting Ridley as saying sex is boring unless you're doing it. That's a good line and it's true because there's one kind of love scene in this movie, and every time we come to it in my class, I'm like, all right, this won't be bad and it'll be over in like thirty seconds, which is I guess what what Orlando Bloom probably tells even Green and uh and uh, so just stand by. It'll be all right. And that's about his I mean, because you did need something showing that they had a relationship. They need something, but he doesn't overdo it at all. It's very form does he didn't, Yeah, didn't.

1:04:20 Yeah? He. I think he does a great job of showing intimate moments so you get the idea, but we don't need to see what's what's going on before or after. You know, think about in g I Jane when to me more and uh and her boyfriend. They're just sitting in the bathtub together, you know, like you know, it's just it's it's a tender moment. It shows that they're they're close. It shows intimacy without showing the act. I did. I didn't really like that. Yeah, I like that. When Baileyan and the Queen have their little romance scene, just as you think it's starting to get steamy, it cuts immediately to the Templer knights on their horses attacking the caravan, and you just moving on. Yeah, all right, let's as we wrap up here. Van.

1:05:07 You know, we've been asking this question recently and I've never had any any trouble answering this one, but today I am. I am perplexed. So I'm gonna I'm gonna let you start. If someone was unfamiliar with this director, which three films would you suggest they watch? Well, we're leaving Kingdom of Heaven directors cut out right, because that's the one we're talking about, So three others. Okay, I'll tell you what. I'll give you that. Like they they're like, hey, I just saw this movie, Kingdom of Heaven. I love it. What else? What else should I watch? You know what? Moving forward? That's how we're going to do it, Van, because I like that. Thank you. Well, you don't want to diss the one we just talked about. I would have to include it, but I was just trying to think of three others. So okay, yeah, I'll give you It's it's fun because there's so many and and it's funny because it's only been in like the last three or four years. That I have realized.

1:06:00 I'm a Ridley Scott fan. He's one of these directors that does different projects. He's not like, you know, like all the Scorsese movies are pretty much mob movies, and they're very they have the same feel, you know, all the George Lucan every there's most of these directors. They kind of do the same sort of things usually. And Scott is so broad that if you didn't know it was a really Scott movie, you might not ever know it was a really Scott movie, you know, just watching it without the credits, and so like, I. Would you think Thelma Louise is a is a Ridley Scott film, because I sure wouldn't you know? Which? Yeah, with the same guy directed Alien and the Last Duel and Elma Louise and like black Hawk down right, he's all over the map place. Yeah, And so I never had anything to kind of hang on to and go I like that. But after enough of them, I got to a critical mass of there's a whole bunch of movies that have nothing to do each other, but I like all of them. That's really Scott. I must be really Scott fan. Who knew, you know, Yeah, it creeps up on you. So so it's that's why it's so hard, because it's all over the play. As my daughter would say, I became a low key Ridley Scott fan.

1:07:14 But but I I kind of you know, I feel like you have to include Blade Runner because he basically created a genre or certainly define it for film. Okay, I mean, I don't want to leave out alien And I mentioned the Robin Hood movie, but it works really more as like a sequel than as its own movie. I finally watched The Duelists, his first movie. Yeah, don't love it. It's kind of boring, but I like that he kind of came back around decades later and did the Last Duel because it's clear that he wanted to do a movie about two guys having a duel. Yeah, and Theist just wasn't it. It's not great, I don't know, but but you go back around and watch the Last Duel and it's really really good. I thought, that's the Matt Damon yep and.

1:08:02 Matt Damon and Kylo Wren. Yeah, yeah, like a few years earlier, and it would have been a weird Matt Damon Ben Affleck medievoing movie. Yeah. And then it's got uh. It's got the great actress that was going to play Josephine in his Napoleon movie, but she ended up not being able to do it, and that's how, uh Kirby got pulled in instead. Okay, it's it's uh. I can't even think of anybody's name, but she was. You got me think of Vanessa Kirby, and I know that's not right because you just said. Yeah, Vanessa Kirby ends up taking the Josephine role because Jody Comber couldn't. That's it. Yeah, yeah, Jody Comber. I mean really, Scott fell in love with her, used her in the Last Duel, was gonna use her in Napoleon, but she couldn't. She's been available, she's yeah, so she's the killing Zoe or something killing that. There's a TV show that Jody Comer was.

1:08:55 I think, I think so, yeah, well she was great recently in the in the Bike Riders. Yes, yeah, really really good. So anyway, I feel like you gotta say Blade Runner. Okay, I mean The Martian. How can you not? The Martians an awesome movie. It's a totally love The Martian. All right, so we got you're giving us Blade Runner, The Martian, and then one more? Are you going with the last door? You know? Well, see, here's the thing. Prometheus is an awful movie, but I love it. I will not apologize for loving Prometheus. I'm so brain dead, but it's awesome. It's gorgeous. Yeah, it has the greatest trailer in the history movies. In my opinion, that Prometheus trailer is ten times better than the movie and made me want to see it.

1:09:38 I'm like, I'm not even a big alien fan, and I saw that Prometheus trailer, like, I gotta see this. This looks awesome. So it's so good. But yeah, I'm I guess I'm gonna go with the last duel just because it works better as a movie. But there's so many it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard to say. Okay, so let me uh, you know you you gave your three. I'll uh, I'll try and pick up. I'll try and fill in the gaps here for you. I gotta go with A. I love the Love the franchise, it all, It all starts in nineteen seventy nine. Uh. I love one thing that Ridley is great at and he does this time and time again. He does it in Kingdom of Heaven Is he creates a strong female character. You're not gonna see the damsel in distress often in a Ridley Scott movie. You're gonna see the hero and she's gonna be a badass female like like like like ale Ellen j Ripley in in Alien. So Alien, Uh, It's it's a haunted house movie in space. It's awesome, it's timeless.

1:10:37 It's just as good and scary today as it was forty five years ago. So I'm with that one. Gladiator, Uh, Van we got we got Gladiator Too coming out and like just like like a week from now, so we gotta, I gotta, I gotta go back to Gladiator. It's it's just it's a it's cinematic. It's cinematic. It's one of the best shot films I've ever seen. Hans Zimmer's scores spectacular, made Russell Crowe a superstar. Right, It's everything you want, And you know you've set a high bar with Gladiator. For Gladiator Too, I don't know what Denzel can do to win us over, but I'm excited to see it next week. So you know, I hope you are too.

1:11:21 So I'm gonna go Gladiator. And then lastly, another film that was shot in the same location as Kingdom of Heaven and you mentioned it earlier, Black Hawk Down. This is this is an amazing situation where you have an ensemble cast, like you go back and watch it now and you can pick out like twenty guys that are superstars now that we're probably nobody's when it first came out. You know, I'm looking at you, Hugh McGregor, so so many people in this film. It's it's it's based on a true story, and it's everything you want. It's tense, it's gripping, it's it's dramatic. So if some one came to me and said, hey, Ridley Scott, what do you got, I would I would say, go see Alien, go see Gladiator, go see Black Hawk Down. That's that's my three. So I like that. I like that your three my three.

1:12:12 You know now now they got six movies to watch, and uh, truly, truly, there's I don't think there's a bad you know, you could have said match Stickman and I would have said absolutely, Sam Rockwall's brilliant into that. So there's no wrong answers here. I think Honestly, man, I think it's safe to say I know the answer to this question. But uh, your final thoughts on Kingdom of Heaven and uh and your recommendation whether or not you would want to see this, Uh, keep in mind you teach it, you teach a class about it. Yeah, get to watch it at least once or twice every semester, so three or four times a year, just like Gandhi. And my daughter was wanting to see it, and so we've we've been watching it at home too this long obviously, so she'll lose interest and then come back.

1:12:56 But I got to tell you one other thing about it recommends it is that that keeps recommending it to people, is I have various because it has such great quotes. As we've talked about, there's so many great quotes from it, lines from it. You know, I do a college football podcast every Monday night, and on my soundboard, I have the I'm the one with a soundboard all the different sound effects recorded, and I have like seven Kingdom of Heaven lines on there. And it's so funny because our audience didn't really know about this movie and they hearing all these quotes and they're like where's that from? Where's that from? We get email from our for our show every week asking about the quotes, and my my football podcast co host has started to say, we don't have a football podcast. We have a Kingdom of Heaven podcast that occasionally talks about football. And I've had so many Auburn football fans come up to me at games and at book signings and stuff, and they come up and say, where can I see this movie? Y'all are always talking about that's going to take us into that other topic you have. I know so, but yes, I'm always recommending this movie.

1:13:55 Yes, fantastic. I got to tell you. You know. Red claims the director's cut road show version is the definitive version of the film, and I agree if you're not, if you're if you're not planning to see this cut of the film, you shouldn't plan to see it at all. Honestly, I wouldn't someone to do anyone's like, oh, I'm gonna it's on cable, I'm gonna watch a theatrical version. I got, I got two hours. I'd say, don't just don't do that to yourself. Check out this definitive version. Van you own a copy of it this special edition. It's out there, well worth the price of admission. You can find this on Prime actually you can. You can watch the You could watch the two hour version for free, or just just spend the four bucks if you just want to rent it and watch the definitive cut. That's what I tell you.

1:14:43 I've got the Blu Ray Director's cut. I've got the Blu Ray road Show Cut, and I've got it on Amazon, so I can easily show it in class just by clicking on the Amazon website and logging in. So, yeah, yeah, I got three copies of it. I'm already I'm gonna start my hunt. I'm gonna go on my crusade. I'm looking for the four K road show version. If that's out there, that's what That's what I'm going for. Listeners, what do you think of Kingdom of Heaven? Have you seen the director's cut, the roadshow cut as it were? Let us know on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for film and TV articles in our entire library streaming free.

1:15:23 You can write to us at a Film by a Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some a film by swag, And of course you can find us on Patreon where we'll definitely send you some swag when you join up Van. What's What's What's next? Is there a new book in the works? Any appearances? You got some things happen on White Rocket? What you know what? What's what's next for you? Yeah, we're at the end of the year. I'm kind of in the dead period. It'll you'll gear back up again when we got convention season. I do the Windy City Pulp Con in the spring, and I do Dragon Con in Atlanta in the fall, and cup of things here and there in between. But now I'm the thing I'm I put out. I put out two big sci fi novels at the beginning of this year, an eight hundred page Alpha Omega book and a three hundred page Union, both both sci fi novels, and kind of got needed to take a break, so I've been resting my brain for the last few months. But I think next up is Alan J. Porter and I are going to be finishing up or working on and finishing the Monaco Heist, which is the third of Our Heist, third of my Highest trilogy. But he's going to co write it with me because he knows Monaco better than me. So this is this is our This is my series about two humorous heisters that robbed things in the nineteen sixties. Vegas Heist and then Miami Heist are both out, and now we're doing Monaco Heist.

1:16:49 Excellent. Now where can I get my hands on one of these books? Is there? I? Can I get them in the store? Should I get them online? Okay? Is there a website any of that? Yeah? I mean Amazon has everything. The stores can get them, they probably don't stock them, and then you can always go to www dot plexico dot net, p L e x I c O dot net and that has links to like all my podcasts, all my books, every all my convention appearances, all that kind of stuff. Listeners, we will have that link in the show notes for you, so check that out for sure. Van, thank you for the education today. Peace be with you, Hey, thanks for having me board.

1:17:29 It's great a lot of fun. And to all of you out there listening to the show, following us on social media and subscribing to our Patreon, we thank you. As well, is long long. We not all hire your bird, but don Java were Humber