Sidney Lumet - Deathtrap

0:00 David, I'm curious about something. Yeah, when it comes to murder mysteries, do you have do you have a favorite? What's the go to for you in that genre? Actually have a couple go tos. One one of them is the Murder on the Orent Express. Both versions I really enjoy recently with the Kenneth Brana But we cannot forget about one of the most recent films, Knives Out. Oh I love Knives Out. But yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Murder on the Oran Express because I want to talk about a film by Sidney Lumett, his nineteen eighty two mystery thriller death Trap. Ye. Hello everybody, and welcome back to the A Film By podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson.

1:10 I'm David Burns, and today we are discussing We're discussing one of my favorite mystery thrillers, death Trap. So Dave, I'm just gonna let's let's jump into it real quick. Well, first thought, like, you know you saw this recently for the first time, right or have you? Did you see this a long time ago? I saw this a long time ago, in the the days of when Netflix actually mailed out movies. Do you remember those days? I do remember that. Yeah, I got on a kick of murder mysteries and stuff like that, So this wasn't one of those that was mailed to me in that little shipper, that little red. Little red envelope. Yes, yeah, that's when I saw this one, but I hadn't seen it since then, and I rewatched it again this week. Okay, cool. Cool. For those of us that haven't seen Death Trap, can you could you offer up a little a little synopsis?

1:59 I can't. So it's based off of Ira Levin's very popular Broadway play of the same name. Sydney Brall, played by Michael Kaine, is a famous playwright whose most recent work is a critically cleaned Disaster with four Bombs in a Row. Now, Brawl has sent a manuscript from a student, Clifford Anderson played by the wonderful Christopher Reed, which he had taught in a seminar. It is then Brawl decides to invite Clifford to his home and plans to murder him in order to claim the manuscript as his own. Or is that really his intention at all? Death Trap is a murder mystery that will keep you guessing until the very end. That is that is absolutely true because I remember the first time I saw this. There are so many good twists and turns in.

2:43 This there is loved it. I'm gonna ask you, this came out in nineteen eighty two. Do we need to be spoiler alert? Do we need to be Can we talk about it openly? Because I don't know, Let's. Talk about this openly. I mean, come on, you've had since nineteen eighty two to see this movie. You've put a little bit of time, right, you got a little bit of tib Now we'll go ahead and put the warning here Tho'll know if you want to see it, you've never seen it, stop right now, go watch it and then come back to the podcast. But from now on spoiler alert. Yeah, there we go. All right, let's get that out of the way. I'm glad we did. Yep. I love this movie. I really do. It's one of those weird things where I remember when I was a kid because I'm a huge Superman fan. Oh yeah, I love Christopher Reeves Superman. He is he is the Superman without a doubt, without a doubt, and I wanted more, you know, yeah, I wanted to see more from him, and you know, he was very you know, especially during this time, he was very selective about his his roles. Yep, you know so.

3:43 I think one of the big reasons why he picked this role because he wanted to get out of the shadow of Superman a little bit. He did. Yeah, and I think that's why he took on this role. And you know, his performance in this is probably my favorite of everybody that's in this. And that's not putting Michael Kane down at all, because Michael tween kids of theme in this, but Christopher Reeve, uh when he shows his anger in the film, yes, it's like whoa, whoa. Uh. Yeah, you're absolutely right about the typecasting. So Superman two is out. It's a massive success. They're they're already getting Superman three up and running. And he has a meeting with the studio execus of Warners and says, I want to do this one. This is my next role.

4:28 You know, I've got a you know this guy. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't he Juilliard that Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is. An He was an amazing actor and he did the smart thing he he he branched out. He tried some something that was that was very far away from from Clark Christopher Reeve, and I commend him for it absolutely, especially go ahead. No, it's it's gonna say that. Just it's nice to see him be able to broaden his horizons in his performance because you know, you see a little bit of that when he plays Superman, you know, but you don't get to see his really dramatic side more than you do when you see him in this movie death Trap, because I mean when he explodes on screen, you know, we can go ahead and I guess talk about Christopher Reeve, but in this film we talk about him. So when you get his first introduction, he you know, he gets invited to the house. You know, he he comes in and like he's like a little kid. I knew, like when he was like talking about brawls, like uh, you know, playwrights, and how he was like looking around the room and he went into the room to see like all the like weapons and stuff that were hanging on the wall, and how he was like a little kid in a candy store. Just his performance there and then when you see him later on in the film, how you just flip the page on him, completely different character altogether.

5:48 He If you haven't seen this. He he he walks into their their home, and he does have there's a there's a hint of Clark Kent to him, you know, like innocence. Yeah, absolutely there is. He's got that just infectious smile. And you're absolutely right. He's he's meeting his hero. You know, he's a he is an untested playwright. He went to one of the workshops, right, and this is his chance to to uh, to meet his hero. You know, this would be this would be like us being invited over to Steven Spielberg's house. That's exactly. It's like us meeting Stillbury, right.

6:30 But to your point, it's all in act because it's all an act for for Sydney's wife, uh Moria played by uh uh yeah uh and we'll get to her in a few minutes. But uh, just the the turn that he does where you find out that this is not the innocent childlike, uh guy, this is this guy is cold calculator. He is. Yeah, Michael Caine refers to him as a social in the movie. He is. He is so good in this movie. This is I'm gonna go ahead and say it right now. After Superman, this is my absolute favorite. Christopher performance without a doubt. I can't. I can't. I can't say I can't think of one better, you know, yeah, honestly can't.

7:19 There's there's some really cool shots in this movie. And I'll get to a little bit then later when we're talking about likes. But one of the shots I love is like when they open the door, he just comes bursting in after he was supposedly killed. Remember that, Oh man, I love that shot, just like how he was all muddy and just that look on his face. Covered in like mud and blood and the rage in his eyes. It's spectacular. Yes, it is spectacular. And that's the point, right he's he is. That's the point right there when you know the character has changed. I mean at first you kind of think that like, oh, they didn't killing, he's coming back in to get his revenge. But then you start learning the more of the story as it goes along. Here, Yeah, because because in that moment, and I know we're getting ahead of ourselves, but oh yeah, we are in that moment. You know, you're almost like it's like you're watching like a Tale from the Crypt episode, you know. So, uh, let's let's before we get too far into the movie. Though, let's let's jump back Sir Michael Kane playing playing Sydney Brule, which I think is kind of fun because the director is Sidney lmit So he again, Michael Kane has had such a storied career. I mean, decades of amazing performances, you know, the laundry List, Laundry List, and he's done some amazing stuff. And I love how off the rails he gets in this movie because he also gets to have those moments where he can express some some rage,

8:49 you know, some anger, and also like when he has his his meltdown, you know, yeah up to it's. Exactly one of the things that you know that I loved. There's just so much to love about this movie that's gonna come up a lot. I'm sorry everybody, because this is such a good movie. One of the scenes that I absolutely love is like when Clifford is there and they're having the conversation, but my Brol is having this side conversation that you know where it's going. He's talking about murdering Clifford and his wife without trying to say don't murder him, she's trying to convince him not to murder him. In the same conversation. I just thought that was brilliant. That is some of the like when you when you think about the writing in this movie. Because I know Ira eleven, you know, he did the stage play. I think he was involved with with Jay Preston Allen on the screenplay. Yep. And let's let's uh, you know, quick nod to her. This isn't her her first, her first, big big deal, you know, this is the one. This is the woman that wrote Cabaret. You know she she was uncredited on the seventy sixth version of A Star is Born. So we're talking about some amazing writers. And it shows, it really shows this and uh, I have to agree with your that double conversation happening between three people where you know, the veiled warnings, you know, Sydney, my heart won't take it.

10:13 And then to learn what the whole there was always just a performance just to get hurt, the whole thing. It's just like, are you kidding me? She's God bless her. She she's she's an innocent you know, she's she's the the uh. The pure character's wife. You know, she's there for her husband, you know, just you feel bad for her, you do. I I feel bad for her. But let's I'm gonna be fair. She is incredibly annoying in the film Scream. Oh my gosh, that's the thing. I can I'm not even talking about the Scream. I'm just talking about when I'm talking about when she has her her her big monologue, her big monologue, her big opening, you know, and she's just she's just loud, she is and obnoxious. I just I'm thinking, man, you gotta you gotta get her under control. Well, he does under control, he does, Oh, he certainly does. But you're right, you do.

11:25 You do feel bad for her. And if there's any any comfort in in her death scene, at least she wasn't murdered in the traditional sense. You know, she didn't suffer pain. You know, she went, she went in a natural way. I guess, yeah, you could say. So, because, uh, you know Mayra. Mayra has an incredibly weak heart. She's had minor heart attacks. That's what we know about her. She's incredibly wealthy. And and Michael Caine, his character Ciddy Brule, who kind of like a one trick pony. He had this amazing hit what went on and on on Broadway and then he's this is his fourth flop for you able to find out. Ye, and he's washed up and people are done with him. I love the the actual film critics that double as themselves.

12:14 That was brilliant. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. So I enjoyed seeing that. Uh, and they're just talking about how this guy he's done. He's washed up. So it's not like he needs the money, but he's so he's so full of himself that he wants his fame and fortune based off of his fame and fortune and not her family's money. So right, right, But. Just to get back to Michael Kaine a little bit, you know, he's just done so much stuff. I don't think he's been in If he's been in any bad movie, it's not because of him, because his performance and everything is always top notch. And again in this film, it's top notch. Yeah. I can't think of anything where he wasn't incredible.

12:55 Right, So there's a scene I thought was kind of funny. Well it's not really funny, but it's just the scene where Brawl and Clifford are discussing. Well, Bral finds out what Clifford is writing. Yeah, and they have this big long dialogue scene of like you know that they he shouldn't do it, where when he's fighting saying that he should do it because it's obviously about what took place of them murdering you know, his wife. But there's when you're listening to Michael Kane brawl talk Michael King I swear, I swear, and you can go back and watch the movie. I swear he's Emperor Palpatine at times because you hear his voice. You hear his voice at times you could hear the Emperor Palpatine saying the same damn things. It was like, oh, man, I don't know if it's the English accent or what it is, but I'm telling you it's there. It's there.

13:49 Yeah, this is a really tight cast. I mean it is, and not a big cast. No, we got these well, you're talking about five characters overall. Really, you know, you've got Sydney Sydney and Myra Brule. You got Clifford Anderson, You've got the the the nosy neighbor, the psychic Hellga Tendorp. And then you have his agent, or not his agent, his lawyer, the lawyer. Yeah, the lawyer. So one character though, because we're talking characters real quick, let's talk about this this house. Oh my gosh, the wind mill house. The windmill house. This is this is a gorgeous, gorgeous house. Uh it And you know when you watch it, I can see how this is such a fun stage play to see. Yeah, because of the the way the house is is built. But I love the fact that they take it, they take the time to to get some exterior shots because it is an actual place. Yeah, it's you know the windmill house in uh in Long Island.

14:51 So yep. I just love the look at that house. Man. You know, I would love to own that house, Jeff. At that open place, fire that fireplace, it's like in the center of the room. Yeah, it's like the kids all like like opened up in there, just like it's beautiful. And how you get like the bedroom is like underneath like where the windmill turns. Yeah, the windmill turn that's yeah. Such his office with all the all the weapons on the water from his his stage plays and his collections. Yeah. I absolutely love this house. It captivates you. I think it really really does. And it's such a great centerpiece for this film. You know, I mean there's only like what four sets. I think, like you have the playhouse, the train station, the cemetery, and the house itself, which I mean it's it's based off of a play, so of course you're gonna have very simple sets because you can't be all over the place on a play.

15:38 So and it worked perfect for this fear. Yeah, this is the what do they call this? This is the the one set, two act, five character play. Yep, that's the formula. Yep. It works because it's tight, it does. Yeah. No, And I like the fact you see like his his his performance, you know, like the you know, the the death Trap to play at the Music Box theater that was actually in production. It was, it was going on while they were filming this, So I think it's really cool that they were just like, hey, we're gonna use the stage settings, yeah, for the movie. Also that that's great. Yeah, absolutely, And not often you get the chances to do that. I'm telling you. I don't think anything has happened since then, has it. I think this is like one of the few movies that was able to do that.

16:25 It's gotta be the only if there, if there's it, if there's another one, I don't know it, but yeah, yeah, let's uh, you want to talk about some characters that you want to talk about some actors that that aren't in death Trap. Okay, so listen to this one. First off, the chemistry between the three of them is fantastic. Oh, it's spot on. Let me ask you, how would you feel about watching Death Trap if Jack Lemon and Anne Bancroft had played the Brules and Dustin Hoffman was Clifford Anderson. Oh, would take a different spin? I would feel on that. I can see it. Yeah, I think it definitely would work without a doubt. I mean, it's hardestcaptions. We're so used to Cane and Reeve and Cannon playing us roles.

17:13 But no, I can definitely could see that. That'd be interesting, it would. I think it makes it a more a more serious film. Yeah, because by far, I don't I don't see I don't see am bankrupt flying off the handle the way Diyan Cannon is able to. But I could see Jack Lemon having some some of these outburst scenes. Yea, I think. That would have been great. Now I'm not I'm not gonna trade it though, Like if you gave me my troubles to hey, trade the cast? What do you want to do I'm sticking with who we got. But that would that would have been a that would have been a bad way to go or is all I'm going to say? Right, Yep, I would agree. So, Dave, you gave us a quick synopsis about the movie.

17:53 Any any background about, you know, how the movie came to be though, like what you got on the film's production. Yeah, absolutely so. Variety back then, which was a magazine and I think they're still around, but they reported that Warner Brothers purchased this the rights to this stage play for one million dollars at this time. Yeah, at this time, that was apparently the most ever expensive purchase for a movie's rights that was non musical. So think about that. They knew the success of this already because as we all know, you know, we've already discussed this, it's based off of the play. But it ran for one seven and ninety three performances. Think about that, I think, and I could be wrong, but I think that holds the record.

18:35 It may not to this day, but I believe that holds a record for the long one of the longest running performances of a Broadway play. That's a long time, man, that's a lot of performances, so you can clearly see they saw value in it as well as the doin in Broadway that they wanted to make a movie off of it. But anyway, director Lumett once come in on the real stage play scenes in this movie, which I here's a quote from him, and I think it's kind of neat, especially the end of the quote. It says, we use the original set of death Track as our set for Sydney Brawl's flop play. The music Box theater is dark on Mondays, so we shot there on a Monday, along with six hundred dressed extras as first night ers. Thus, the opening scene is a movie of a play within a play, which takes place within the play on which the movie is based. If that's not completely clear, it's at least a first I love that quote. I love that quote because.

19:29 He starts to starts to lose you there for a quick second, Like, right, he's the mastermind of a twist and turns movie is giving a twist and turn answer exactly, yeah, so uh, because you I mean this this play is running as they're doing the production, So I was just wondering, like, when are they using the stage the stage. House on Mondays. It's like it's just said on Mondays is dark. Okay, Yeah, so they were able to use this then, yeah, but his other one, so, according to he says, a melodrama in this speaking of death Trap, A melodrama like death Trap requires a different set of movie muscles. You shoot right, act and edit for story. The object is to have fun, and if you take yourself seriously, you're dead.

20:12 The line between good mystery and good comedy is very thin, a knife edge. Both take delicate timing, and when an audience is really scared, their natural reaction is to laugh. I like that this. He he was such an amazing director. Yeah, I mean we get to his filmography. I know we're gonna have to just kind of skip around a little bit and just hit the hit the highlights. But right man, I love I love hearing I love hearing directors talk about their work. Me too. I love it, especially once they're on a round anymore. I love to hear what they had to say about their work, you know, because we don't have that opportunity to interview them or speak to them right now, you know. Yeah, so it's neat to get to be able to see that one other thing that I guess we should probably talk about is the controversial kiss. Yeah.

21:05 I mean, if this was shot today, no, it's the this is the biggest nope, you know, who cares thing, but right, but in nineteen eighty two, this is a big deal. It's it's huge, right Yeah. Yeah, So the play didn't have it, by the way, but they did it for the movie. Yeah, the movie. You know, sometimes you gotta you gotta tweak a story just so the movie's a little bit different or has some some you know, wow factor, and you know, like we talked about, so these guys, it's it's all a setup to to provoke the wife into having a coronary, which she does that you know, he he murders quote unquote Christopher Reeve to get his uh stage play. Reeves comes back to life, just intense rage monster that he is. He comes crashing through the window.

22:00 He's covered in blood and mud and just has that just murder look in his eyes, and she cannot handle it. I mean, for all she knows he has come back to life and just murdered her husband, and that's too much for her. So but then we find out, you know, these guys have been meeting in secret. They had been rehearsing it, and the whole plan was to get her money and then live a happy life together. Right. Yeah. I think in the original play it's intended that their partners were not in the romantic sense, right. So that's that's one thing that Lumit changed for the movie is he made them secretly.

22:42 They were a couplet. And I think it was a bold move for the director and for them to do this because, like you said, at this time, you know, nineteen eighty two, you didn't do this kind of stuff on Streen. It just wasn't seen. And when you had it, it was pretty controversial, especially for two big performers like this. You know, yeah, this is and well and you know, you got to think about you gotta be you gotta think about where we were in America at this point, the the the what was it, what was you know, what was deemed appropriate if you will. So the idea of seeing Superman kiss another man that was shocking for audiences. You know, I think it works for. The movie because if you if IF your buddy, if you're if your business partner, you know, tries to convince you to help him murder his wife.

23:32 Are you gonna You're not gonna do that? You know, I think that them being a romantic couple kind of creates it kind of creates the passion that that one would need to be talked into something as outlandish as this, as this plot is. You know, you'd have to you'd have to care about someone on a on a whole other level. And aside from I mean I'm talking aside from one split second kiss that they share, that's all you really see. That's it's you know, the rest of the movie. If you had missed that scene, you would have you wouldn't even know, you know, he would just assume that they're just business partners because exactly, you know, they don't play it. They don't play to us, They don't play a certain type. You know.

24:15 It's what I feel because even when his lawyer comes in, you know, in Cliffer's like typing and stuff like that, saying that he's his secretary and stuff like that, you don't even you wouldn't even think that you're right if you miss the kiss. Absolutely, yeah, you know, And even Sidney has that great, that great line with the with the lawyer where he's like, well, imagine if I had taken a female you know, secretary, what would people say after the death of my wife? And you know, his his lawyer's like, oh yeah, I think you're right, you know, yeah, I mean it makes sense, you're it does I commend him for it? Yeah? And that's going to show you the kind of pull that director has, because I'm telling you right now, I can almost guarantee that the studio was like throwing a fit about that. No, we can't do this, we can't do that. You know, that's going to destroy us.

24:56 It's going to destroy this film. And you know, the director must have had a lot of say we're going to do it. And could you imagine could you imagine the studio had seen dailies and go and just and like what did I just watch? You know? But you know the odd thing about this, Dave, is after this movie came out, the stage play adapted to that and took it a little bit further. You know, some of the stage plays that you know, and I'm sure we're talking about off off Broadway, but a lot of them, you know, embraced the kiss and then even went with nudity in some in some cases, so it definitely limits decision controversial at the time as it as it was, it changed how the play was was was carried out after that. So yeah, brave choice and I'm okay with it. I gotta listen.

25:49 We can't talk about this movie without addressing a couple of superhero references, right we can. We got Michael Kaine and christ Of Reef. Come on now, now we got Yeah, so let's look at the obvious ones. You've got Superman and Alfred Pennyworth you know, in this in this movie together. But there's two other superhero connections to death Trap, and I'm gonna challenge you. Do you think you know any of them? You know, I read this, but I don't remember who it was now. No, I can't think off the top of my head right now. Okay, I got I got two for you. So we talked about this house, actual estate in Long Island with a working windmill. It went up for auction in twenty seventeen and for twelve million dollars was purchased by none other than Tony Stark himself, Robert Downey Junior. For really.

26:46 That's awesome. So the house where Alfred and Superman are hanging out is actually owned by Ironman, iron Man, I got I got one more for you though, and this is a this is a much deeper cut. Are you ready for this one? Sure? All right, We've we've been talking about how this has been a very successful stage play for a long time, right, So I'll have you know that during the nineteen seventy nine tour of death Trap, Clifford Anderson, who has played brilliantly in the film by Christopher Reeve Superman in nineteen seventy nine, on stage he was played by Kevin Conroy. Really how about that? Yeah? Wow? Most notably the uh probably the best voice actor for Batman all the time he played Batman live action, you know, Bruce Wayne and live action. So yeah, so yeah, Superman, Batman, Alfred Ironman. I mean, this movie's got it all.

27:42 Give it up to death Trap for connections to the comic book world. Yeah right, yeah, Well, Dave, let's talk about you know, and we'll have to we'll have to watch ourselves for time here, but let's talk about some of the things that we really like. Do you have specific couple what specific scenes speak to you as like memorable or your favorite? So I need to talk about a couple things me being in a cinematographer a photographer. I love camera work. I love camera movements. So when a movie does something specific that just like, oh wow, that's cool. So this movie does two things that I absolutely love. So one of them is when Michael Caine brawl plays, you know, calls Clifford on the phone and he's speaking to him on the phone, the camera just does a three sixteen just follows him. I don't know if you notice that or not, but as he's walking around the room, the camera stays in one spot and just follows him as he's talking on the phone. I thought that was really cool.

28:38 Anytime a director does stuff like that, I'm like, yes, that just adds so much a dimension to a film. It does. But the other one was the shot which it really you know, Clifford knew what was going on, but it's still the shot was cool when Clifford got put into the chair for the first time, he had the handcuffs on, and that the camera was low and it slowly comes up with the camera movement you are realizing that Clifford's in trouble. As Clifford realizes he's in trouble, Yeah, it was perfect. Loved that so much. That is one of my favorite scenes in the movie because at that point, we don't know what's going on, right, we don't, and your your brain, you're I really feel like you're connected to Myra at that point because she's she's thinking is he really gonna do this? Is he really gonna go through with it? You're forced into that that feeling, that mindset, and just the feeling of helplessness.

29:34 That tight shot scrolling up up Christopher Reeve's body. You feel so helpless in that moment, you do. And it's the little things where he's trying to give himself some kind of security, like oh, my friend's gonna call and yeah, uh. And then Michael Kane's like you give him? And what He's yeah, that whole what number? Did you give them? Any Quickly his hand covers the telephone where the numbers and he's like three, two, four, But you know, it's just like, uh, the first one he said. You're like, oh, is it right? Is it right? And he's like, oh, that's good. You know, you get that that momentary relief, you know. And then even just with with Michael Caine being like, oh, I thought you too, said I was gonna do something crazy. You know, It's like everyone has like a haha moment and then he goes into it boom, you know, starts strangling with the chain. Wow. That is such a great scene.

30:36 I know. And I'm telling you, you know, you hear this all the time from actors that you're always so supposed to perform with your eyes. Your eye says so much without dialogue, use your eyes. That scene right there is a specific example of why, because when Christopher was just like looking at around that room, he looks to the why looks, you know, to brawl. It's just amazing performance. Man. Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole in the whole film, Oh yeah, I could see that. And the scene where Christopher Reeve kind of kind of gnashes his teeth a little bit, you know, and and yells at Michael Kane, you know, good to me. Uh. You've never heard chrisoph eeg yell, you know, I mean, beside aside from the the the afternoon that Lois Lane got killed in the earthquake, you know, this was this is a scary yell though. Uh. And you're terrified of him in that moment because at this point, you know, Christopher Reeve has been he hasn't been the the alpha in the room, right, right, he has very he's been very even once you you you see the turn and you know, you find out that he's he's in on it, and there he's a bad guy. He's kind of he's kind of deviant, you know, he's kind of but.

31:45 He feels like he's playing along with brawl. He's not like, you know, overpowering at any point. He's not the mastermind. No, until then it's like whoa. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you another thing. I like, uh and this goes to the uh, the mark of the movie. I just think it's fun seeing the you know, whether you're looking at the poster or the DVD cover, the blue red cover where they're kind of stuck inside the this giant Rubus cube. Yeah, that Rubi's Cube. Yeah, yeah, so they were they use that. I looked into this. They use that for two reasons. One, they wanted some kind of puzzle box, because it's the whole thing's a mystery, right, mystery. Also in nineteen eighty two, Rubu's Cube is like at the height of its popularity.

32:29 It's like one of those I is selling puzzle toys of all time. So yeah, yeah, let's just use it. So I think that's kind of cool about it. Actually too, I do want to throw out one other like then I laugh, I laugh about it. It's when Brawl comes in and his wife screams, and he says, every time I come into this bloody house, you scream. He's had such a rough he's had such a rotten night, you know, his you know, opening night, he bombs, you know, he misses, you know, he gets drunk on the on the shuttle home or whatever. And then it comes in and then she screams and he drops the thing he's got. Yeah, yeah, this I mean, I know in some in some circles, this is considered like a dark comedy, a murder mystery, a comedy. You know. I don't. I wouldn't consider it a comedy. But there's no it's got a lot of unintentional comedy.

33:20 It does, I think, you know. Uh, And it's it's really like these in the moments where you should be more you know, fearful for people like but like Michael Kane's breakdown, you know, he's fantastic. But speaking of breakdowns, I want to talk about something I did. I don't like Okay, Diane Cannon is a beautiful woman. She's a talented actress, and I don't understand the motivation of the character being so over the top annoying. I mean, she's she's just too loud. I don't get it. I'm with you on that. No, you're not wrong, that's that's actually the weakest part I think of this film is her character.

34:02 Did you know she got? She was not she lost, but she was nominated for Worst Actress at the Razzies. Yeah, I mean I should say something. It does. And I'll tell you I kind of mentioned earlier when I talked about her scream. Dude, I'm change. It's probably one of the worst screams I've heard in a film like it just it's needed on me, It's not at all, and it happened so many times. It just, oh my god, just stop screaming, please. I And you know her her debut, like her opening scene, you know where she's in bed, she's watching the news waiting for him to call I. I guess we should have saw what was in store for us just from that moment, because could you imagine calling home and your wife being like sity. You know, she's screaming at him.

34:49 One I'm like, t take a pill. I don't. I don't know. Yeah, I think I get that we need her to be a little annoying because you not that you should like Clifford and Sydney. But uh, there has to be some kind of motivation and not just you know, I mean, think about if she was supportive. You know. Look, if I'm married to Diane Cannon and she's a millionaire and she's still Diane Cannon and she's smart and supportive. Yeah, okay, I'll just keep trying. Yeah, you know, so she had to be she had to be a little a little grading, I guess. But I think I think Diane Cannon just went a little too hard.

35:33 As he did, Yeah, too hard on the performance there. And that's my only dislike of the film. That's my only dislike. That's the only thing I could say, Uh, you know, one more like if I can you know, because this thing is just you know, every every time you turn around, there's a new new twist hitting you. Yep, the ending, Oh yeah with so we got yeah, with Helga, So we got the the psychic who is a little bit of a celebrity herself. You know, she's she's the neighbor. Yeah, she's been on TV and she's got the ominous you know, watch out for the men in boots because Christopher Reeve inexplicably wears hiking boots around the house, around the house, like his pants are tucked into him. It's just it's kind of a strange thing. You know, Superman can do what he wants. But the whole thing where you know, this plays out because it's like a double cross and then another double cross because Michael Kaine's character does not want you know you you mentioned this earlier. Uh, he thinks, uh, Christopher Reeves Clifford is writing a stage play about a welfare office, and then come to find out he's writing death Trap. He's writing they did what they did, point by point, and and then he's trying to explain like, hey, the notoriety. You know, I can't believe these guys wrote something about something that happened. You know, he's he's eating it up up. Michael Kane doesn't want to do it. And then Michael Kane seconds, Yeah, Michael

37:03 Hanes decides I have to kill this guy and get it to him too, and when they're going back and forth, and that's a great cat and mouse throughout the Oh yeah, like the thunderstorm that has knocked out the power. Good old Helga shows up and then you're like, you know, there's a struggle, and you're like, what happened? And then we cut to opening night of death Trap and it turns out that Helga has written it. Yep, she basically now yeah, she's she's she's got a whole new celebrity because now she's a playwright. She has taken you know, she she kind of knew what was gonna happen, then she saw what happened, and then she wrote her own version of it. So I love I love the the triple twist indeed that this thing does. I think it's fun.

37:45 It is too. I loved it very much fun. You want to talk a little bit about uh about uh Sidney Lemon himself. Yeah, let's do it, so, Dave, I'm gonna start with just a few things about Sydney. So if you have if you didn't know this, the majority of his movies shot in New York, right, Yeah, a lot of his stuff is New York based. Got his starting off Broadway in TV, He made his film debut with Twelve Angry Men in nineteen fifty seven. Wow, what a way to think. We were just talking about Taiko Watiti starting off with an Oscar nominated project, you know, long before Taika Sydney's doing it. Yeah, you know, because Twelve Angry Men got three three Kademy Award nominations. That's a heck of a start in Hollywood, right it is?

38:33 Yeah, yeah, I mean this can go from there. Well, I can tell you. I don't know where you can go, but I can tell you who you can go with. Because he's worked with Brando Fonda, Catherine Hepburn, he did five movies with Sean Connery. I mean, he had a storied career. We're talking thirty Oscar nominations just in the decade of the nineteen seventies alone. Wow. So when we talk about Hollywood royalty, we talk about one of the greatest of all time. Here he is, this is this is one of the names that has been in the conversation. Right, absolutely no, And he even received an Honorary Academy Award in two thousand and five for Outstanding Contribution to Filmmaking. So just an amazing guy.

39:16 You know, and we'll I just want to talk about a couple of movies just because I don't want it's going too long. But you know, like I said, feature film debut is Twelve Anger Men Henry Fonda, nineteen fifty seven. This is in my top ten of all time to this day. I absolutely love Twelve Anger Men. You've seen it, Oh absolutely, I've seen that one. Yeah, fantastic film. Fantastic If you've not seen that, that definitely needs to be on your list to see. I don't care if it's nineteen fifty seven. It is very well put together film. They business schools use that movie, yeah, to teach conflict resolution and teamwork. Yep. That should tell you something. I mean.

39:59 And again and this is that that one one set piece, you know exactly. Yeah, It's That's what I was That's what I was gonna say. Is I mean, that just proves you right there, if you've got a well written script, you don't need a ridiculous amount of sets. One set. If that script is written as good as twelve Agreement is, you're going to have your audience on the edge of your feet the whole time just from that. Yeah, and this is one of those. I think they've remade it once or twice, right a TV maybe, but nothing compared to that one. Yeah, if you're not watching the original one, you're missing out. There are so many amazing performances in it. Absolutely, you know. Throughout the sixties, uh kind of kind of dips back into television a little bit here and there, uh, maybe one or two movies, but then comes back roaring in nineteen seventy three. Al Pacino is now a bona fide movie star thanks to the Godfather. And we're talking about Curpraco, the uh you know, true life story, you know, based off the true life uh you know, Frank Curpraco. It's this is just gritty police corruption crime movie. And limits known for doing these types of movies, but based on what he has done, this was the his first, was his best because Cerpraco is awesome. You've what about Circraco.

41:17 I have not seen Cervico unfortunately, I know it's on my list to watch. So okay, yes, okay, wow, okay. Well a year later, though, he jumps into the mystery game Murder on the Orient Express nineteen seventy four. Yes, based off Agatha Christie you mentioned at the beginning you you've seen both, right, correct, well, obviously you saw the new one. Do you have a preference? I mean I tough, right, It is very tough because I love Kenneth Brona. He has such a good performance, he directs well. But man, you got to give it up to the one of the originals too. It's tough to decide which one I like best. I have to put them both on par you know. Okay, that's fair, that's fair. Seventy five he re teams with Pacino one of the best bank heist movies of all time, Dog Day Afternoon. Talk about a pressure cooker of a film, you know, Pacino playing a bank robber who is trying to get money for his lover's sex change, which I know sounds off the wall, but the way he handles this material is is taken so seriously. It's it's an afterthought because the tension rising between Pachino's character and the police chief who's trying to get everybody out and get everybody safe. It's it's one of the best dynamics in a film, you know. But Pacino is just electrifying.

42:49 That's That's all I can say. What did you think I've not seen dog Day Afternoon. You haven't seen dog Day. I'm telling you, apparently, I need to have a finny Lumette day where I'm watching a bunch of these films that I've missed out on, because I know he's got quite a handful that are just absolutely spectacular that I've not seen yet. You at least, sir, sir, you at least owe yourself a Paccino limit double feature. I do two. Yep, all right? What about what about Network nineteen seventy six? I've not seen it? You haven't seen Network. I have not seen Network either, my lord. I know my listeners are like, are you kidding me? Has he not seen anything? The the the emails are gonna be just piling up.

43:32 Why is this guy talking about Sidney La He hasn't seen him his movies? I promise, though, I will. Okay, Well, Dave, let's jump ahead a couple of years. I have to believe you saw The Wiz eight tell us about your about your feelings about the Whiz, Dave, Yeah, you better give these people something. No, I mean, it's just what it's a different version of like The Wizard of Oz, like some Guys, an odd musical which I love you know, it's you know, I grew up with a Wizard of Oz. So seeing the Wiz and how it was something completely different but yet still similar was very interesting and a great take on it.

44:16 In nineteen seventy eight, whoever decided to take the Wizard of Oz and recast it with Michael Jackson. Oh yeah, that person just had the idea, hey, let's print money. It's a brilliant move because obviously with you know, where his career was going. So yeah, and this was so fun. Yeah it will be. It's nothing but fun. It's and the thing about the thing about these movies we're talking about, you know, you know, like I said twelve Angerman nineteen fifty seven, his Paccino stuff in the early seventies, you know, the Wiz in seventy eight, these movies do not lose their touch over time. No, they're still They're just as prominent, just as good now as they were then. I was, there's a.

44:57 Reason why they call them classics, because yeah, they earned that term. So nineteen eighty two, he does a double shot, He's got death Trap, and then he follows it up with the Academy Award nominated. The verdict with Paul Newman. Paul Newman just incredible performance. You know it plays the alcoholic lawyer from Boston. Probably one of the best courtroom movies. I'm gonna count twelve year minutes a courtroom drama. We're not in the courtroom per se, but I'd say that's probably the best, or my maybe my favorite. The Verdict's definitely up there in the top top two or three as far as I'm concerned. What do you think about the Verdict?

45:41 I've not seen that either. Oh my lord, we're gonna lose this audience question. If I know we are, They're all gonna hate me now. They don't ever have data back on here Again, he doesn't watch movies yet. Yeah, those of you, for those of you listening that are upset, please remember that in just a few short weeks, Brad Couza will return to the film by podcast. I'm kidding, Dave, I'm kidding. Listen. After We'll, We'll, we'll, we'll jump ahead because like I said, well, this will quickly spin out of our control, much like the plot of death Trap. But it's amazing because he has such an incredible body of work in the in the seventies and early eighties and then things kind of got quiet down. Over the next twenty years, he does some he does some movies that I felt were they're definitely worth seeing. I mean they're not They're not big movies though, Like you know, when you think about something like Guilty of Sin, I think that was like nineteen ninety two, ninety three maybe, But Don Johnson. This is a chance for people to see Don Johnson as a bad guy because you know, he had been Sunny Crockett for the longest time, of course, yeah, yeah, and to see him play a guy accused of murder.

46:54 You know, Rebecca deem again, lim it's back in the courtroom, because this is a you know, Rebecca de Mornay is a lawyer who's defending defending him but doesn't really want to. I mean, he's Don Johnson is about as charming as a Denio, as Max Katie and Kate fear, you know, but that tells you that he's a slime ball. So she's got to make the choice. But uh, you know, he he's got a couple, you know, he did. Ah. I want to say it was what was the James What was the James Spader Hospital movie? Critical Critical, care critical, think not bad, not bad. It was believe Yeah, that was a satire, way bad. Uh. His final film though, in two thousand and seven, Before the Devil Knows You're Dead.

47:39 I mean, if if a director is going to retire, you always hope that they're going to retire the last film they do is going to be a really good one. Right, maybe not the best movie, but you always want them to go out with a with a great one, retire with a great one. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it to him. I think he did, because Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. Fantastic movie. Uh, Phillip Seymour Hoffman in one of his better roles. Uh, you got Ethan Hawke just tearing it up on the screen and uh, you know she had been gone for a little bit. But h Marissa Tomey. M I'll tell you what if, if you're a fan of Maurissa Tomey, you need to see Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. I'll just that's all I'll say on that one. Yeah, just an incredible movie.

48:26 Definitely incredible. Now. Uh. You know here's the thing, though, Dave, he did pass away in twenty eleven, so I know we'd like to talk about what we'd like to see next we do. Yeah, So I'm gonna I'll change it up. I'll ask you know, you know, we just found out you there's a lot of great films by this man that you have not seen yet. Yep. So I'm gonna ask you, like, what what would you want to see? Uh? You know if I'm gonna say, hey, watch watch the Sitting Limit movie tonight. Which one you're gonna go with? What are you gonna Sart're gonna you're gonna do like the Pacino stuff you want to do like a network. I know I'm actually gonna do a double feature. Yeah, I'm actually gonna do a Curfait co and Dog Day Afternoon.

49:09 I need I need to see both of those films as soon as possible, especially as much as you have talked immensely on how good they are, and I know, you know, Oppatuno and stuff like that. What a great performer he has. Everything he's been in he has been phenomenal. So I know I'm in for a treat with those films, and especially with Sydney directing. As far as Death Trap goes, Dave, where did you see this. Did you watch this on Prime or do you have a copy of it? Was a Netflix? Well you mean this this recently? So I watched it on Amazon Prime. Okay, so years ago you got the red envelope. I didn't. I don't think people can get that anymore, but. Yeah, you know they can. Yep. Okay, uh yeah, I got the Blu ray transfer.

49:49 Looks really good. If you're wanting to pick up a copy of it, definitely spend the I think it was like nine or ten bucks on Amazon, not a whole lot. Well worth nine or ten well worth it. So you'd recommend seeing this film? Oh, absolutely see this film. Hopefully you took my vice at the beginning and stopped to go see it and then come back to the podcast. Anytime you watch a murder mystery, you never want to know the mystery before you want. You don't it ruins them for you, man. I mean, I would hate somebody to ruin that for me. I really would, especially as many twist as this film has. All Right, Well, if you like what you heard, please like, share, subscribe, follow, do all that good stuff. You can check us out on www dot a film by podcast dot com. You can reach out to us at a film by podcast, at gmail dot com, or on Facebook and Twitter. You can always drop us a line at a film by podcast.

50:45 If you have some recommendations for Dave on which city limit movies he should be watching, please let him know, because we gotta get this guy caught up, so we do. Until next time, The copp