Scott Cooper - Out of the Furnace

0:00 Brad, you and I go way back. I mean we pretty much are brothers, you would say, right, right, right, right, yeah, and we both are fortunate to have brothers. You know, I have a brother. You have a brother, right, You are an older brother. I have an older brother. There you go. I I love a good film where brothers are the main characters. Oh yeah, you know, they're they're always anytime I see one, I'm always thinking about my brother. You know, I'm thinking about you sometimes. Uh. I remember Warrior, you know, that's one of my favorite That's one of my go to films. When you're talking about brothers, you know, I always want to talk to my brother right after that. You got something like that that does that for you? Well, yeah, actually I do. I'd like to talk about one of my favorites, a film by Scott Cooper, his two thousand and thirteen dark revenge drama Out of the Furnace. Hello everybody, and welcome back to a Film by Podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson, I am Brad Kozo

1:30 Brad we are It's April, uh new month, and just days ago, on April Fool's Day, no less, we have finally launched the Patreon for a film by Podcast. Yeah, that's right, it's exciting. You know, it's an exclusive thing. I love it. Yes, exclusive content. Uh you can. You can join us there uh www dot patreon dot com backslash a film by podcast for as little as three dollars a month. You get access to all this exclusive content. And we didn't mess around. We've we've already loaded this up, right, Brad, that's right. It wasn't an April Fool's joke. But you finally get a full on audio commentary by me and Jeff for the nineteen eighty six film April fools Day. How much fun was that? I mean, I was so much fun, so much fun, very very riffish. So we're a little bit looser on that one, if you if when you get a chance to hear it. Aside from our first audio commentary track, we've got a couple other things on there.

2:37 Right, And you thought nineteen eighty six was over, didn't you? I did? H We got we got not one but three new nineteen eighty six episodes already available on that Patreon. Happy to say that. Jason Colvin of the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast came back and we covered out of Bounds Anthony Michael Hall. Oh yeah, I remember that movie. Yeah, remember that one one of my favorites. Uh, from the year. I can't believe we didn't do it in our regular release slate, but uh, Amber Lewis of Docking Base seventy seven fame joined us her and Andrew Blakeley. We did the Mosquito Coast Ryerson Ford, really cool jungle thriller. It's set Harrison Ford movie where he's in the jungle without a fedora in a bull whip.

3:28 Yeah, I'm gonna movie. We talked about definitely at It's it's a must watch one of his best performances. Uh. And you want you want to tell him about the other the other one that made it uh into this first batch. Oh yeah, the Chuck Norris and Lee Marvin classic, The Delta Force. It took us a while to finally get to the Delta Force, and man, it was a fun one. Again. I don't know how we didn't get that into uh the wide release. You know, somehow Firewalker got the nod. I think that was I think it was Lewis Gossa Junior's birthday. Maybe that's why we did. Yeah, I think that's why but yeah, a lot of good stuff there. Check it out. And now, Brad, let's get into Let's get into this film by Scott Cooper Out of the Furnace. Oh yeah, I mean, let's give a little synopsis of what this film is about. First, anyway, Please Do, Please Do. And Braddock, Pennsylvania are two brothers, Russell and Rodney Bays doing what is necessary to survive. Russell, played by Christian Bale, is a good citizen, works in the local stone mill, plays his taxes, stays out of trouble, and has a nice girl played by they always adorable Zoe Seldona. Rodney, on their other hand, is an army soldier forgotten by his country. Portrayed energetically by Casey Affleck. Rodney has no aspirations to work in the mill and wants a big payday for fighting for his country. It's only when he gets mixed up in a llegal fist fighting with the local criminal.

4:49 John Petty is play Belly, always great, willing the foe, Rodney begs John for a fight with a group of New Jersey hardcore criminals led by Woody Harrelson. He knows that if Rodney doesn't take a dive that the New Jersey Criminals will kill him. Everything goes wrong and Rodney disappears, and since Braddock Police don't have jurisdiction, then the New Jersey Mountains rustling his badass uncle Red played by the Great Sam Shepherd, heading to the underworld of the New Jersey Mountain crime world. That can we just you mentioned Woody Harrelson. There the opening scene of this film at the drive in with Woody Harrelson. Man, is he brutal? Okay? I got a theory for you. Oh okay, well yeah, let's jump into Okay, So Mickey and Mallory Knox escape at the end of Natural Born Killers. Okay, Mallory Knox die somehow Mickey is down on his luck. This is what ends up happening in Mickey Knox tell me he is not like Mickey Knox gone like a little too far.

6:00 I can't do that because, yeah, I look, Mickey Knox is a brutal serial killer and Natural Born Killers. But you still kind of you're behind him, you know, you're like he he he just has charisma, you know. Uh. Harlan de Grote has none of that. He's a he is a terrible he's a terrible person, and I just I hate that I have to you know, I hate that I have to defend Mickey Knox. But he's he's he's too cool, he's too nice For UH to become Harlan. I would, I would hope. But but on a serious note, though, Harrelson is terrifying in this movie. I just I'm nervous every every scene he's in, I'm nervous about what he's gonna do and who he's gonna do it too. On this opening scene is you know the reason why?

7:02 Right? Yeah? I mean the movie set you up immediately. UM, don't get comfortable. This is gonna hurt. You know. This is a rough movie, and this is a This is a rough movie. Absolutely, it's you know, it's sweaty, it's smelly, it's yeah, it's it's got it all. There's uh, it does have it all, including a very talented cast. But before we get to them, Brad, I just want to point out someone, uh because you know, we always talk about our director obviously, um, and we talk about our cast, but can we take a second to talk about the cinematographer for this movie. I'm talking about Massa Nobu Taka Yanagi. Okay, Yeah, who goes goes by the for sure, he goes by the nickname Masa. Okay, it's the film is shot beautifully. I mean we're like you, like you said, we're in the we're in a rough borough of Pennsylvania, but we also see some beautiful country mum. And this is the guy you know that that shot it for Scott Cooper. He also did you know this is this is his go to guy, right because he did he you know, you know, I know, we'll get into the filmography later, but this is the guy that shot Black mass He shot hostiles, and he shot the pale blue eyelash.

8:18 All great, all, all all look great too. Yeah, this guy, this guy has an extraordinary eye. I love the way he shoots his films because it doesn't matter if we're we're in the Pacific Northwest, you know, or if we're out on the planes, or if we're in Pittsburgh. I mean, you get a true sense of what it's like thaks to what how this guy shoots his movies. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, like you said, it could be you know, eighteen hundred or twenty thirteen, and he makes it. It makes you feel it. Yes, Uh, speaking of feeling it. Uh so we we we we we just so we talked about Woody Harrelson a little bit playing uh the the The Jersey, The New Jersey crime Lord Meth meth dealing crime Lord Harlan de Groat. Interestingly enough, uh not the first choice. Vigo Mortenson was initially um given the offer.

9:24 Yea, love him? Okay, how about Billy? Bob Thornton was also considered before Two on the Money. Two on the Money kind of already did that with you Turner, you know, kind of the creepy creepy Yeah, yeah, okay, I can tell you right now. I love both those guys. But there's no one I would have wanted to see do this other than Woody Harrelson. He owns the role. He's terrifying in it, and I believe him when when he's gonna hurt somebody, I believe that he can do it. Yeah. So absolutely, yeah, love love him, love him in this film. Um, let's talk about the brothers. Christian Bale playing Russell Bays, the older brother. See, I like Christian Bale sometimes. I know he likes to do things like, um, you know, losing a lot of weight for the fighter gaining a lot of weight for vice. But I like Christian Bale just kind of usually playing the plane guy.

10:24 I think he gets, you know, overlooked at some of those things that you know, being just a serious, straight dramatic actor. He's fantastic in this. He is absolutely fantastic in this. Uh. I know, again, we'll do I got a couple casting almost what it could is for you. Um. This role initially was Leonardo DiCaprio's um when he moved on. Now he's still a producer on the film him and at least you know, we'll get into that later, but DiCaprio is one of the producers for this movie. Jeremy Rinner was the first person offered the role and he passed on it. Okay, so I could definitely see him playing this role.

11:07 But I think you're right, it's this is absolutely Christian Bale's role. It's such a fine performance too. Yeah, and a breath of fresh air, right because he had just finished his his Batman trilogy with Christopher Nolan the yeah before, so you know, a chance to just kind of was like, all right, I'm done with my commitment to that kind of thing. Let's get into some some just basic dramatic type of work, and he did. He delved right into it right away. Yeah. I love him in this uh Casey Affleck playing his younger brother Rodney Bays. Also, he's electrifying. Yeah, very much like Wardy Harrelson's character. You don't know what's gonna take him off, you know, you don't know what's gonna make him explode.

11:54 Well, yeah, he's I mean, he's dealing with this whole uh PTSD from you know, he's when we catch up with the character, I think he's done four tours in Iraq at this point. Yeah, and he is. He has got some serious issues and the only way he can vent is in these uh these bare knuckle brawls. He's like illegal street fights that that are being set up for him. He's fantastic. Did you know I apparently he actually trained for several weeks to get that wiry Yeah, he's like tall, lean kind of look, you know, like even when he's like getting ready for the like the fight when he's up in New Jersey, he's doing that like fist pump with his just getting ready for the fights. It's like he looks like ready to go. It's like he's ready to step into a ring or just step into a fight. Yeah, and it's and I mean Casey affleck. He's always a small guy, right, Like anytime you see him in a movie, you're like, yeah, he's he's not trouble.

12:52 But in this movie, I again, I believe it when he when he starts fighting, it's like I would that it will tear you up. Right. Yeah. A couple of people considered for the role before Casey got it. And I'll say almost, see what you think about these names, Brad, because uh, a couple of them are pretty pretty good. They would have been great. Channing Tatum was considered, Okay, all right, Uh, Taylor Kitch are one of our heroes from Friday Night Lights, That's right, yeah, forty four and then this one definitely I think out of out of the wold would have could us. This is definitely that Mike gets my vote. Garrett Headland, uh, who has done some great, great work too. You know what, all those are great actors, but I think Casey is the only one that could have pulled this off, especially when we talked about one essential scene. Like I said, no, Uh, these other actors are fantastic, but I don't think they could have done what what casey affleck did? I agree? You know? I mean and the fact is, you know, there's there's other three guys we talked about. They they have some size to him. They they yeah, they had that that action figure look to him, you know. And again like the guy spent three months training just to just to look like a brawler. And I love that about him. Yeah. Funny thing, I almost forgot this. I

14:24 don't want to. I don't want I don't want to forget this, uh before we move on, because we talked about how nasty Whatdy Harrelson is. Yeah, I gotta I gotta a fun thing here for you, Brad. Apparently what the day they rapped filming Whatdy Harrelson walks up to Scott Scott Cooper, hugs him and says, quote, I have never wanted to shed a character so badly in my life. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I would stand in the shower for like three hours to wipe that all off of him. Absolutely, absolutely. U you mentioned Zoe Saldonna. Tell me you know, she's she plays the girlfriend, uh Lena, and she has one essential thing and that is to take Christian Bale's characters Russell's heart and then take it away, and I just she just has a look of if you lost that, I mean, if you lost that, you just it would be so tragic, you know, the fact that he was, like I said, paying his taxes, doing what he needs to do, and you know, ends up losing her. I mean, she's always good and of course a lot not the only person like Christian Bale that gets to act outside of a franchise covered by a lot of prosthetics makeup. So this is a chance for to be a person, a real person. And um, she does

15:56 a really good Um she does a really good teacher, a really good like the way she is with the kids. She's really good with the kids. There's a lot of believability in this movie. Yeah. Well she also what I love about her performance, you know when you know, I mean Bille goes away to prison for five years, she doesn't wait for him, She moves on and you can't even be mad at her, you know, because she's she's the X. She's the X that you are still friends with, that you still want good things that for you know. She Yeah, she does. She captures that performance so well. I love her in this Um talking you talked about Sam Shephard and you're uncle so badass in this movie.

16:45 Yeah, I know. It's the way she's like, we're just going get us a buck, and the way he does that and moves he's so he just seems like he belongs there, you know, when just someone just like they're that world. Hey, lista, I was gonna run by the cemetery and drop off some flowers. You got your rifle, We'll get a buck. Sure enough they do. Yeah. John Petty played by Willem Dafoe. I want to ask you, because I mean, Dafoe is awesome no matter what he does, but did you feel like he should have been a little more menacingn the type of character he was? No. Once again, that's something William Dafoe does great. But I like that he did feel bad for Roddy. He knows this guy went over and did his tours again and again.

17:33 Why is he needing to do this kind of work? He understands it for himself, you know, he's the criminals path he chosen, but he does want to see something good, So I like that. I like that he's sympathetic. It makes it more tragic when the outcome of the film. Okay, I get yeah, I see what you're saying there. I just I mean, he's still he's still a bad guy. He's still a criminal. Yeah, yeah, he's still a bad guy. But having him be kind of a hard ass, mean creepy that that William the Folk can do that in a second, you know, to see him kind of play a little bit of a criminal with a little bit of a heart of gold. I like that. Okay, all right, I'll tell you someone I felt was very reserved in this movie was Forced Whittaker playing the police chief Western Barnes.

18:21 Not your typical Force Whittaker performance, no, but you know, a chance to do something a little different. Once again, talked about how great you know, Zoe Sildona not only leaves Christian Bell's character, you know, while he's in prison, but ends up getting involved with Forcet Whittaker's character, who is a much older police officer. It's just really kicking the balls. But yet you cannot be mad at her so adorable you can't. I'll tell you who else I really love. I enjoyed this movie. Um uh. And this guy, he's he's he's popped up in a couple of Scott Cooper Movies talking about Tom Bauer who plays uh Dan Dugan the Bartender, which you know, I know who exactly who he is? Yeah? Yeah, and and what why do we know this this guy? Because yeah, we constantly talk about him and die Hard two of There's Your There's your New Terminal, there's your Skywalk. I believe we talked about him when we did The Negotiator, which talked a little bit about him. Yeah, he's a great character actor. He shows up, been a lot of things. Yeah, I like the movie has a huge cast. There's a lot of that guys, but a lot of people you know. Yeah, So let's you know, back to the movie. Um, here's one thing I think it is really cool about what Scott Cooper does in this This movie takes place over the course of five years, and we don't know that because we are just given a

19:52 title card. He just gives you clues, like the transitions he does to let you know where we're at in the story. I think he does so well. One of my favorites is uh, you know, at the beginning of the film, you know, Christian Bell, he has it. He has a drink with the Willem Dafoe. He's driving home, he gets in a car accident. It's not that he's drunk, he just gets in an accident. Someone pulls out in front of him. Someone dies. And the next scene you see he's back at the steel mill. Right, you think, you think, because he's he's doing some welding. And when he turns around and you see that his jacket says d OC, you know, Department of Corrections. Then you're like, wait, is he And then now we're in the yard and we we we know, okay, he got arrested.

20:48 So you know the woman died. He's in jail because of it, right, And we don't need to we don't need that that exposition forced on us. We just know it. Right, Yes, Scott Cooper does a great thing. Harry trusts the audience. He trusts the audience to know that. During the bar scene, when um Christian Bale is at the bar waiting for Rodney the night of the thing, it's Barack Obama becoming you know, the next president. So you're like, okay, well it's two thousand and eight. And then you know there are things like license plates that say like expire two thousand and thirty. You caught that. Yeah. Yeah, So it's little things like that, and you can kind of like, okay, now we're up five years, twenty thirteen, this when the film came out.

21:29 So he trusts the audience and I like that. You know, he's like, just we don't need to go through a trial. And ye, him coming home, anybody that sees us knows he's calling the cops. Yeah, they're going to get involved. They're gonna know he was drinking, and of course he's going to be something. And you're like, Okay, that's how it turned out. We don't need all that out of stuff. I love that. A fun fact about about Bail did you know that he actually learned how to work inside the st ill mill for those scenes, which I think is I think it's kind of funny because, uh, deer Hunter. You know, yeah, this this mos got a little bit of deer Hunter in it. Does it feel Deer Hunter to you? Okay? I didn't know if it was just yeah, okay. I thought it was ironic because, um, when Scott and Dave did the did the Deer Hunter not too long ago, you know, they talked to you know, I think was Scott mentioned DeNiro wanted to learn how to do the do the work, and they're you know, they're like, no, we're not we're not doing that.

22:33 We're not taking any chances. Meanwhile, you know, all these year, forty five years later, Christian Bell says I want to learn, They're like, yeah, come on in. You know we said no and the last one and it won Best Picture, so we'll go ahead. Yeah, I tell you you know Bales performance again. I love the genuine happiness he has when he's released. Yeah. Do you ever think about this? Every time you see a movie where a bad guy is released from prison, you know, like again DeNiro, Cape fear Right, or you've got a hero character who's getting out of prison, they always do the tough guy walk. Yeah, you know when they leave the bail. When he steps out the door, it's like he's he just walked into Disney World. I love how he's hoping, he's running, he's hopping around, he's he's laughing. Yeah, you know, he grabs his little brother and picks him up, and then he's like, oh well I'm running, I'm going to you. I want to drive. He still love what have you not got to do in five years? Drive? Yeah? I want to drive their gearheads, you know they want to drive. Yeah, oh that car that Casey Affleck has, who buddy, love that love that one? Absolutely love that one. Uh.

23:44 Let's talk a little bit. Uh, I got I got some fun stuff about the background of this movie. Brad. So, Initially this is a spec script called The Low Dweller. Okay, uh it was and actually made. It was one of the popular ones on the two thousand and eight Blacklist, which you know, you're in Hollywood, you know what that's all about. The Blacklist? Yeah, great script by Brad inglesby M Right. So you know, Never Never Never gets picked up. DiCaprio and Ridley Scott, they get it, they get an idea for it. M Cooper gets involved. Cooper rewrites it and kind of uses his own experiences growing up in Appalachia. And then here's what I think is cool. Original story didn't take place in Braddock, Pennsylvania, But after he reads an article about the declining steel industry there and how they're trying to revive the town, right, he decides, let's let's go there, let's shoot the movie there. There's no sound station in this movie at all. This is all on location, right, I love that about this movie too. And again, like I said, originally it had Ridley Scott and Leonardo DiCaprio attached, but they were they were so in love with the project they stayed on as producers. So yeah, it was kind of interesting to see their names at the end credits.

25:07 You're like, hey, this is some big guys there. Well yeah, even at the beginning when you see the Scott free logo. Yeah, and you're like, okay, because you know DiCaprio as a producer, Ridley's a producer. Um, I think Tony Scott was a producer. Yeah, like this there's like laundry. Look like I saw who's who of producers on this um to get it made, and I you know, and you can see like when you have talent kind of kind of guiding talent across the board, across the board, this is what happens, right. Yeah. Okay, So in a in a movie like this where you have got some powerhouse performances, some amazing moments, I gotta I gotta ask you, um, if if if there's a pivotal scene for you in this movie, what would it be? What's what's the what's something to where? Yeah, do you have something, Brad, where you were just like, this is this is it?

26:04 This is the moment that this movie really turns on. Yes, and it does two things. It is the one that turns it around and the reason I think Casey Affleck it was the right person for this job. And it is the scene where um Russell discovers that Rodney was doing some you know, street fighting and how how he's making his money. And he goes and he tells him that, you know, work at the mill, and Casey Affleck's car is like, I don't want to work at the mill, and he says to him, don't be ashamed to work for a living, and that just sets off a spark and he goes off on him about doing all this stuff in Iraq and pulling up his shirt and showing that scar. I'm like, and after his entire speel, I'm like, he's right, He's right. What what you know you seem he's trying to look for work and the film and it's it's so tragic, but he does this full on like you know, SmackDown scream to Russell. Ronnie does and it's not only you know, energetic and you know, rageful, but he's also correct, this is this is the most important scene in the movie. I'm glad you said, I'm glad you chose this one because it's it's exactly what I was.

27:25 Right, Yeah, it absolutely is. You know, we're we're into the movie, right, And again we talked about this being like kind of like a dark revenge you know, thriller. Yeah, this is it's a situation where our hero takes you know, something bad happens in the beginning of the movie, and then they spend the rest of the movie, you know, seeking out the revenge. We get some time to to to to bond with these two brothers. And I don't know about you, but like, up until this moment, I'm kind of like, damn, what is Casey flex problem? Why can't Rodney just get his get his act together? And you know, and again it's like you know, yeah, I get it.

28:07 You're the little brother, so you don't want to listen to the big brother. You don't want you know, because we know everything, right, But you're like, why can't he just show a little respect to what Christian Belle, you know, his character Russell. Why can't he show some respect to what he does and what his father does and and bail. You you feel kind of bad, like you're like, yeah, you're right, man, set him straight, like he needs to work at the mill. And when he has that, you know, he's like, f the mill, man, I don't I don't want to do that, and Christian Belle gets angry. You're angry with him until this incredible moment for Casey Affleck where he just gets unhinged and lets this rage out and he, you know, has a real I don't know about you, but I felt like like Stallone at the end of First Blood when he breaks down and he's talking about the horrible things that he had to see and do. Yeah, and Casey Affleck's kind of channeling a little bit of that that little John Rambo moment and he's talking about some of the horrible things that he did. And then you're like, oh, okay, okay, calm down, now, we get it. Yeah, you maybe you had, maybe you're right and how you're feeling, and you're just like, man, you know, it's a scene that shakes you.

29:26 It really as I think, and I remember saying it out loud as I was watching it going after he was done, I go, he's right, you know, Yeah, he's right. I looked at it. You know again, when you're watching a film when you have a brother and you're watching a film about brothers that are you know, that are in a fight, and you're always like, who am I siding with? I immediately felt bad, you know, and I thought, like I felt I felt bad for Christian Bale because I'm like, Okay, how do you fix this? Now? What do you what do you do to make make the peace? And you know, like, do you offer how are you gonna get your little brothers some help? How are you gonna you know now that you now that you know how he feels, what are you gonna do? So?

30:07 And I love the I love the fact that it's actually Casey Affleck who takes that step, you know, with the with the letter that he writes. Yeah. Yeah, such a great moment. I just man, such a great powerful momentum. Might be the best, might be the best performance I've ever seen Casey Affleck do in that's in that scene. Yeah, he's fantastic. Yeah, So I have a question for you before we uh, before we get to Scott Cooper and his his filmography and and it kind of we're talking about the ending here. Okay, okay, so again and you know, spoiler alert for anyone that hasn't seen this I know, Brad. We pick out the underrated films and we try to shine some light on them.

30:52 Uh. If you haven't seen this film and you don't want it to be spoiled, then please just just hit stop. Check the movie out, uh, and then come back to us. And oh, by the way, you can check it out on to Be or Amazon Prime. It's streaming free on both of those platforms. Uh, check it out and then come back and see us and uh and jump back in. Brad. I want to talk about this ending real quick, because we get we get the revenge, We get what we want. Woody Harrelson gets what's coming to him. Christian Bale very cold blooded in his in his uh his vengeance, you know, just take you know, he's gotta he's gotta was it a three h eight rifle and he's taking shots at him, you know, like wounding him, and Woody Harrelson's just like a wounded animal trying to get away. And then you're like, come on, do it, uh, you know, or your thinking is he gonna do it? Forrest Whittaker rolls up in the police you know, the black and white with the lights, you know, jumps out, don't do it? Put the gun down, and he doesn't put the gun down. My question to you, Brad, did Russell have to kill Harland de Groat? Yes? Everything that he did was well deserved.

32:05 I love that he took his time. I love it. Harlan deserved that kind of I love it. Do you know who I am? Do you know who I am? I love that. I think that's this is a This is a lot of people letting out their rage in this movie. So if you can't handle men just letting all their anger out, then this is not the movie for you. But if you feel because you feel a little bit of a release when that happens you, I'm sorry, I was cheering, I was happy when he was doing it. Yeah. Is it cruel? Yeah, but it's deserving. Okay, So are you aware of the altar the original ending? That's a little bit yeah, yeah, a little a little bit. We do we want to talk about that because it's it's it's very drastically different. So the original ending is very dark and test audience it is absolutely hated. So we're in this field Bales got the gun on him. And it's not just Forced Whittaker rolling up, it's a whole it's like several police cars. They all jump out and and now you got a standoff situation. Belle murders h Woody Harrelson and then they shoot him down.

33:24 And everyone hated it. And I gotta tell you, I absolutely would have hated an ending like that. Um. I love the I love the fact that it's just Forced Whittaker because they his character and Christian Bale's character, they've got their own, um, their own uh grudge with each other. And I love the fact, you know, we always it's almost like a seven and like, yeah, you we need to see Woody Harrelson get executed, right, And then you're like, okay, what's going to happen to Christian Baille now? And they could have Scott Cooper could have ended the film right there and just left it like, oh, I'm sure you know obviously he's going back to jail. But we get that scene Christian bail is sitting in his living room smoking a cigarette. It's dark, Pearl Jam's release starts playing and then we fade to black, and you could not get a better ending than that. Right. Yeah, here's what I've got a very interesting quote, uh from Scott Cooper about this ending though, and I think you'll, I think you'll definitely appreciate this, um, you know, because as I said, as he's sitting in you know, in his living room and we fade to black, it doesn't really paint the happy ending. Obviously. It's it's happy for us because we didn't want him to go to jail, but he doesn't look like he's doing anything much better. Right, So here's what's Here's what Scott Cooper says. He says, and I quote it's an homage

35:00 to The Godfather Part two. This is a man who is battling his soul and living with the consequences of violence. When he went to kill Harlan de Groat, he thought he could have gone to prison or be killed by the police. He never thought he would get off, and that the sheriff would ultimately say, let me make this right. And he does. And Cooper goes on to say, this is a man who, whether he's in prison or not, he's in prison for the rest of his life. Hopefully he will find peace and contentment at some point. I'm a very optimistic person. I hope that ultimately Russell Bays does find that great quote about the ending of the film. He offered that to the Huffting the Post when it came out.

35:45 But I just think the ending, it's got such a satisfying ending. Yeah, because you're you're happy for him, but you're still sad for him. Russell deserves a good life. He does. Well, we're gonna take a quick break, but when we get back, we're going to talk about director Scott Cooper. Welcome to the All Eighties Movies Podcast. I'm Bill and I'm Jason, and this is the podcast where we talk about the blockbusters, the flops, and everything in between from one of the freshest decades for movies, the nineteen eighties. So whether you're a brain, a jock, a valley girl, or a Jedi, we've got some Eighties classics for you to These movies stand the test of time. Are we discovering something new? Is there an Eighties movie we are finally watching for the first time. Join us each week as we dive into the cinematic nostalgia that inspired and influenced a generation, from the hits to the cult classics. We'll discuss our earliest memories, favorite scenes, fun facts, and are not so favorite movie moments too.

36:52 You can find the All Eighties Movies podcast wherever you listen to your podcast. Please subscribe and happy listening. Okay, Jason, test of our friendship, which is better Van Halen or Van hagar Man? Honestly, I think Van hagar has better music. Oh no, no, no, no, it's Van Hampy. You're wrong. What about Michael Jackson's bad album versus Michael Jackson's thriller out Thriller obviously best seller ever? No, no, see people tricked themselves and believe that it's actually bad. Okay, Trading Places versus Coming to America. Trade Places is the funnier movie out of this down No Coming to America. It is the funniest movie of all time. So if you find yourself backing one of us or the other of us, you need to be listening to the Shirley You can't be serious podcasts. That's right. We have a friendly discussion. D and I are best buddies, and we take a deep dive and look at the behind the scenes stuff, the history and the fun facts of all these wonderful movies. And music from our youth. It's really just an opportunity for us to geek out about the things that we really loved growing up. For example, do you know the actor that was in Star Wars, Batman eighty nine and Raiders of the Lost Art, Yeah, Chris Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford was in Batman? Oh yeah, Billy d Williams. Billy D Williams was not in Raiders of the Lost Stark. Who is it? Well, you've got to tune in to the Surely you Can't Be Serious podcast when we discussed Raiders of the Lost Stark Dresses back to the future to find out the answer, and we're back. Yeah, and um, we're gonna be talking about director Scott Cooper, who is making a quite of a name for its himself. I think there's this new list of directors

38:23 with him on it. There's that maybe don't have the Christopher Nolan satist getting there, ari Ast Andrew Dominic obviously, like Dennis Novelle nWave, Matt Reeves. These guys are starting to get there. They always seem to get big cast, just like Scott Cooper does and all of his films, but they're really starting to make a name for themselves. All right, Well, I got a couple of things to offer you about Scott Cooper. I think, I mean with his body of work. You know, we're talking about six films, so maybe we can maybe we could spend a little extra time on each movie, if you're cool with that. Yeah, and lucky enough, we've seen all of them. We have. Uh, yeah, we and we'll we'll we'll tell you, we'll tell you if you should as well.

39:09 Uh. Here's the cool thing about Scott Cooper. You know, because this guy, he's young, Brad, he's fifty three years old. Uh. He trained as an actor at the famous Lee Strasburg Theater and Film Institute in New York City. He spent a decade working as an actor and uh small film roles and TV. Uh. We're both X Files fans. I don't know if you if you caught h He's he was in an X Files episode, really he was. It was actually it was a season seven episode five called Rush played a character named Max Harden. You have to remind me that was that. Well, I know we've both seen it was that at that seven season seven. That's Molder was like had been kidnapped her at that point right, I think we I have to look at what Scully's hair is at the time. Okay, yeah, he's he's some some prominent TV work.

40:00 And then, as we said with the with film, he did have a small role in Austin Powers, the Spy Who Shagmy. It was his role though as Lieutenant Joseph Morrison in Gods in Generals, where he meets Robert Duval on set. They become very good friends, so much so that Duval becomes a mentor of sorts to him. Okay, so not a bet. If you're going to have anyone in your corner, Robert Duval is not a bad choice, right, Yeah, so he went to the Lee Strasburg Uh, you know, acting school connected to Godfather Too. He's Robert Duval is his mentor, you know. So, yeah, he's got a lot of Godfather Too connections. He's he surrounds himself with Godfather. He types types. Nothing wrong with that, Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's actually it's Duval who was a producer on his directorial debut. Talk about two thousand and nine Crazy Heart. Yeah, um, what an interesting film. You know, it almost like this could have what happened to the dude gets Jeff Bridges, is, you know, long overdue Oscar, but Crazy Hearts it's it's a great movie, great soundtrack, great performances. You know this is it did a lot you know too, I don't, I don't can't remember if it was nominated for Best Picture of that year as well, but well it did.

41:30 It won two Academy Awards. I know that, Um, because it hinged. And here's the way, here's what's funny. Bridges almost passed on Crazy Heart, which would have been terrible for that movie. But his whole his whole issue. He took issue with the fact that there was no one prominent attached to it when it came to music, and he and Bridges nos, like, look, if we don't have a good song, if we don't have good, good music for this, it's not gonna work. And then it's not It's right, you know. Shortly after that, t Bone Burnette gets involved, who is one of the most famous music producers, and you know, um, but yeah, I mean think about that. They Bridges does his own singing, as does Colin Farrell, and they both sound really damn good. Yeah. Yeah, love that movie. It netted uh well, it won, it won the Academy Award for Best Song, gets Bridges, his his his Oscar for Best Actor. So absolutely fantastic film. And the fact that this is Scott Cooper's directorial debut. Yeah, that that tells you right there. This guy is he's he's gonna, he's gonna do what he wants, and he's he's gonna get the talent that he wants, right yeah, and he keeps getting it and then we I mean this the second film is the film we're talking about today. Out of the Furnace, you know, twenty thirteen. Yeah again, Uh well, you know, we were just talking about music. Here's here's what I love about this movie.

43:00 You and I are both huge Pearl Jam fans. Right right, release off their their debut album ten is a fantastic song. It fits this movie so well. But the fact that the fact is, it wasn't supposed to be in this movie, right, it was supposed to be just Eddie Vetter was supposed to record some music for it. Right Here's yeah, so he this is what I found out. Apparently Eddie Vetter wrote and recorded like five songs for this movie. He and Scott Cooper agree like together, they're like, you know, what. It just doesn't feel right like the songs. Like Scott Cooper told Eddie Vedder, these songs are too good, they're too powerful, and they will overshadow the performances in this movie. It'll overshadow the movie.

43:49 And they decided, yeah, let's not do it, let's not use them, and they're never released. Why why is that? Like I'm wondering if they were reworked into other songs or on I would love to find that out. Be like we saw maybe later Pearl Jam or Eddie Better solo songs were kind of reworked. That's something we could well, Yeah, let's do a little homework on that, because I would love to know if if they're out there. Uh. Two years after this movie, though, Brad twenty fifteen, he teams up with Johnny Depp and does Black Mass which is the Whitey Bulger movie. Yeah, this was a good movie. This is good another Yeah, a lot another movie with a lot of great supporting stars as well. You know, good story, um, you know, really great acting. Very I like the way Cooper does a very realistic it almost feels like they're improvising a little bit. It seems very natural. It doesn't feel scripted. But yeah, I felt that with with a lot of his films, but yeah, especially with Black Mass. I mean, he got Joel Edgerton in that movie, Johnny Depp, you know, Benedict Cumberbatch. You know, it's just and you know, we love those, you know, gangster involved with some kind of Washington crooked you know, politician. You know, we love that stuff. Well, that's also that's where he first works with Jesse Plemons too, because oh yeah, yeah, you know, because

45:20 Cooper's he's one of these directors. We've talked about this on other episodes where a director gets several people and kind of they become like his go to or her go to ensemble, right like every every you know, maybe not always in the same movie at the same time, but it's like, hey, I got you in this one. I'll see you two movies from now right, Yeah, and all who are good though there's never, like like I said in our film, in Crazy Heart and all these films, there's never something in there like I don't like that guy. They're always really good actors. Oh yeah, it's yeah, I'll say this. I like Black Mass, but I think I would have liked it more if I had never seen The Departed because you know, you know, Jack's basically Jack's playing white.

46:04 We know that. Yeah, and if you get if you're if you're putting Jack against depth, it's like, well, you know, yeah, because Jack, you know, yeah, he's deplorable. But at the same time he was fun to watch, you know, whereas Johnny Depp's character, you know, he's he's almost like Harlan to grow where I don't. I don't like him in the movie at all. Right, Yeah, and uh, Scott Cooper loves his bad guys with bad teeth. Yeah, tethys, bad teeth, bad guys. I picked up on that. So Black Mass also want to point out it's the only movie that he's directed that he didn't write the script. So really, yeah, that's that's the only one. You know, he was He's five for six when it comes to writing. Um.

46:52 But but still great film. Another two years we get to one. Uh, I think is a fantastic film. I know it's uh, I know you're a big fan of it, that's right. Twenty seventeens Hostiles. Yes, man, this is a When I was rewatching this the other night, I almost called you about fifteen minutes into it. And ask you did we did we totally green light Out of the Furnace because this movie is just fantastic and it really is one of those again, a lot of rage, a lot of things that many people might find cruel, but man, nobody, I mean everybody gives in that movie. Everybody gives everything that they have in that movie. And that movie is Man. And that's another one like Out of the Furnace, it's rough Man, it is, it's so good.

47:47 Well, Bail, you know, this is this is where Cooper really starts to shine because now he's doing a period piece. You know, he he gets back together with Christian Bail. You know, now I think it takes place like eighteen nineties, early in eighteen nineties. He's, uh, you know, this legendary army captain who definitely has um a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Yeah, you know, he's gotta he's got this. He's got the assignment no one, no one wants. Right, He's got to score a chief, a shy in chief, through a through dangerous territory. Right. Yeah, and uh, man, talk about again surrounding yourself with just incredible performers. You know, Bail is back Rosamond Pike is in this um West studie. You know a lot of people don't remember.

48:37 Uh, Timothy Shalomay is in Hostiles. You remember, yeah, very briefly, you have, very briefly. Yeah, but he's there. Yeah, I mean Timothy Shalomay. Uh, Jimon Clemens again, Uh, Stephen Lange who yea Yeah. Just a fantastic film, it is. It is that opening scene. Yeah, definitely, definitely brutal, but man, what a great film. You know. It's funny you say, like you almost called up, called me up to say, let's let's switch gears and and talk about this and talk about Hostiles. The thing about his filmography, we're talking he's got six films, right, and all six of them are fantastic, and looking at him so far, all six of them, we could have we could have talked about any one of these. Yastly, you know, there's no blockbuster here. There's no with exception of Crazy Heart, which won some Academy Awards, it's still a bad movie. It's only attention. It was still a small film. Yeah. Yeah, you know what, maybe maybe we'll have to come back, well, maybe we'll have to talk about Hostiles. Maybe we can do that for a Patreon, you know, we could. We'll discuss that after the show. But twenty twenty one he dips into the horror genre with Antlers Okay, a film I was extremely excited about because it was a Sky Cooper film, and I just found it kind of forgettable, you know, really it didn't have that It didn't have that punch

50:07 that I feel that the rest of his films did. I I love it because it's it is small town. It is a small town horror film, and it's got the monster movie elements to it, and it also has the the the myth and legend aspect to it. Carry Russell, you know, she plays a she's like a teacher. Her brother Jesse Plemons back again playing the sheriff. I I'm watching the movie because the trailer really doesn't give you any indication of what what is it? A serial killer? Is it? Is it a creature? What is it? Um? So the big reveal at the end, which you know, if you if you haven't seen it, I'm sorry. The fact that they used the legend of the Windigo as the as the the creature as the monster. That's brilliant, you know.

51:05 And then it tied the whole for me. It tied the whole movie together because Kerry Russell. You know, she's playing a teacher and she's teaching her class about the difference between myth legend, fairy tale fable. Yeah. Uh and that poor little kid, um that's caught at the you know, the center of the story. I don't know who he is. I don't know where he's where he's at now, But how is he not gonna be like a major star if he if he, if he chooses to, Because that kid did some he did a hell of a job in that movie. Yeah, give it time time. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I uh so Antlers not not too much. Uh, you're not too much a fan of I mean I would give it a second chance Sunday watch. Um, but I just remember being like I think I had, my expectations were way too high. Okay, okay, well let's talk talk about expectations.

52:00 I had expectations for his most recent film because of you. You want to you want to tell us about that one? Yeah, it came out this past Christmas. Is a Netflix film. It's called The Pale Blue Eye. Starting out of the furnaces, Christian Bale. What a good movie, right? Yes, I remember. Look, we had we had written the schedule, like we we knew the episodes, we knew what we were doing. You call me up and you're like, have you seen the Pale Blue Eye? I said, I don't. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know the movie. And you're like, it's it's new Netflix movie, Christian Bale, we Gotta, we Gotta, we gotta, we gotta do Out of the Furnace. And I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? And wasn't it you you saw this, you saw the Pale Blue Eye, and that led you to out of the Furnace? Correct?

52:52 Do I have that? No? I think it just it was one of those things that happened like a week. Out of the Furnace. For one week around December was playing on like every streamer ever and it kept popping up and I was like, I feel like I should watch this and put it off and put off, and just one I was like, breakdown and watch it and kind of forgot that it was a Scott Cooper movie and I was like yeah, I was like he did this and he didn't like this guy's done more than I thought that. I enjoyed, you know because like I said, he's not a Christopher Nolan, huge type of name. And then you as, hey, I really like what this guy does, and I think The Pale Blue Eye when you talk about cinematography, Oh whoa, yeah again, Uh Masanabu taka Yanagi that guy. I'm telling you, if you have a four K television, you owe it to yourself to watch The Pale Blue Eye on Netflix because it is stunning what this movie looks like.

53:53 It's just stunning. I love it too, and it's it's cool. It's a it's a it's a it's a mystery like mystery. It's a horror movie. Uh blends a little fiction with little nonfiction because uh, we're again, we're you know, back in I don't know what it is, seventeen hundreds or something, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Edgar Allan Poe, a student at West Point, you know, gets teamed up with Christian Bales like detective who's uh you know, there's a murder, you know, and they're trying to figure out who. I'll tell you, I never saw the ending of that one coming. The twist at the end was a good twist at the end of the movie. Oh man, was it a good twist?

54:35 Uh, just a sensational story. Very much a slow burn too. Yeah, all of his films are Yeah, I loved it about that. Um, you know you got some you got some great people showing up in this. We we mentioned the X Files coincidentally just a minute ago. Yeah, she's she's got a small role in it. Uh. Robert Duval has a small role in it. Ye, so again you know he's he always surrounds himself with with incredible talent. Toby Jones is in it. Uh. And the guy, the guy that plays Edgar Allan Poe. I haven't seen him in anything. I think Harry Melling. Yeah, yes you have. I Okay, where are saying? A meaner older brother in the Harry Potter film franchise, The Dorseys Dorsleys, Dudley's He's not Dudley Dorset. I'm checking.

55:30 I'm checking you right now, do it. I'm I'm fact checking you. There's no way that, holy cow, that's Dudley Dursley. Yeah. The Harry Potter films. Man, he looks so different and i'minal performance completely. Um might have to show up on one of our snub by Oscar Specials. Yeah, well, not only does he do an amazing job, he looks like Edgar, Yeah, like a young Poe. He looks he looks like him. So yeah, absolutely fantastic film. It's currently streaming on Netflix. And yeah, uh you owe to yourself to watch that one, you know, Brad, let's do a quick rundown here. Uh, crazy Heart out of the Furnace, Black Masks, Hostiles, Antlers, and the Pale Blue Eye. These are all you want to see him, right I'd buy that box set absolutely absolutely, and they're all available right now too, Like you can. You can pretty much find all of these streaming on on Netflix or Hulu or Prime. I mean they're you're scattered, but they're they're available.

56:39 Um. Just a stunning filmography for Scott Cooper already. But now, now do we know what he is doing next? Because I would love to know. You know, here's the thing about Cooper. Uh, he does have a project in the works, but he's not directing it as far as what's next for him, so and you know, maybe that could change because this is like it's like a pre production thing, but I can't tell you. He's currently writing a film called A Head Full of Ghosts. So listen to this. This this is I know, here's what I can tell you about it. Um. Apparently twenty years I'm reading this, Uh, twenty years after her family was publicly destroyed by her teenage sister's mysterious affliction, a young woman tells the story in her own words, revealing a far more terrifying version of what really happened in her childhood home. So sounds like maybe he's sticking, like you know Antler's twenty twenty one, p. Twenty twenty two.

57:46 Maybe he's kind of staying in that that supernatural dark area. He might maybe have a horror trilogy in his Uh, that's what he's up to. Maybe one more and then something else. Okay, Well, I mean I'll ask you, like, what would you want to see this guy? Obviously he's got a he's got a career, a big career him after we're gonna do after looking at this filmography, he has covered a lot of ground. But one I think he would do stellar in his science fiction. I think he would do a great science fiction film, something in the future, outer space.

58:27 I think he would do great, especially as beautiful as his cinematography is um. His casting is always great. You're gonna get a great cast. His stuff always looks good, it always looks real. I think he'd be great science fiction director. Okay, so you want to you're going, I mean him doing anything with space would be fantastic. So you've got there. Yeah, do you want do you want something of thriller you know, Alien Prometheus esque? But I mean you look at his stuff. He's gonna he's gonna make it interesting, he's gonna make it dark. Okay, So but what would you want him to kind of go in the vein of you know, fiction where it's something more like Antlers where or do you want him to stay realistic, you know, more more of a nonfiction where it's well, he really both. Yeah, but I like when he kind of blends him, you know, by using like the kind of things that he does in Pale Blue Eyes. So, I mean, his choice, but things that have familiar ground always make it more interesting. So, yeah, surprise us with a science fiction film, Scott Cooper. I second that, absolutely, you can finish your horror trilogy. Though, all right, what else do we got coming up here? Pretty soon? I mean we were coming up in April. Now at the beginning, we got it's yeah, April just started. This is a big month for us. Uh. Actually, next week pretty busy week for the film by crew. H Scott and David are back on Tuesday. Uh, they're they're gonna be talking. But one of

1:00:00 our favorites and maybe one of the best zombie movies of all time A film at forty five is covering the forty fifth anniversary of Dawn of the Dead. Oh nice, nice, love the Invasion of the Body Snatchers episode two. Oh they did great on that one. And then Thursday the thirteenth, we got we got our first crossover event. Uh. We got together with the Surely You Can't Be Serious podcast, the thirty something podcast on Her Majesty's Secret Podcast. Because April thirteenth is the seventieth anniversary of Ian Fleming's first James Bond novel, and we thought what better way to celebrate than to get us several of us together. We're doing a Bond Girl draft in the vein of much in the vein of a fantasy football style draft. We're gonna we're gonna make our picks. And then lastly, we definitely want you to check out our friends Bill and Jason over at the All Eighties podcast, because I believe on Friday, uh we're over there talking about blood Sport with this. Is it finally blood Sport time? I mean itching to hear that bad boy. We are, we are, we are entering the kumata. I believe we'll have to double check them, but uh yeah, stay tuned, stay tuned for that. So, Brad, where did you said? Do you you watch this on Prime? Or did you watch it on TB Right now? It is on to B for free. Um but uh yeah, like I said,

1:01:34 Amazon three ninety nine, but you do a little search. I'm sure you can find it because it was on a lot of them for a while. Well, I think it's on Prime. I think it's streaming on probably now yeah it is, okay, sorry, Uh all right, Well I think that'll do it for us this time. We'll see you next Tuesday. Where you take me the pain please,