A Film at 45: Escape From Alcatraz

0:00 Hello everyone, and welcome back to nineteen seventy nine. In a Film Buys limited series A Film at forty five. I am David Burns and. I'm Scott Hoffman, and as usual, we're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems that we can't stop watching. This week, we're busting out an episode about doing hard time on the Rock way before Sean Connery even tried to do so, with Escape from Malclatraz. No one has ever escaped from Alcatraz, and no one ever will. I'm Alcatraz, who is not like any other prisoner in the United States. Inmates here have no saying what they do those they're told. We don't make good citizens, but we make good prisoners.

0:51 No one has ever escaped from Malcatraz, and no one ever will. It's January eighteenth, nineteen sixty and Scott, you're we are heading to the Rock, A film by recently covered Michael Bay's The Rock with Sean Conner and Nicholas Cage. So it is only fitting that we go back a bit further into nineteen seventy nine and do the same for Don Siegel's Escape from Alcatraz starring Clint Eastwood. Scott, I am. I'm a history buff, and so I knew the story before watching this film. But how would you describe this to someone? You're one up on me because I knew Bo Diddley about this. Now, sad me if you've heard this one before. But this is another nineteen seventies movie that takes place back in time, as you mentioned, nineteen sixty to be specific.

1:39 Convicted fellon Frank Morris moves to San Francisco as an inmate of Alcatraz, one of the most imposing and inescapable prisons ever built in the United States. Although he's escaped several prisons already, the Alcatraz warden tells him he'll never do it again. Ironically, that's exactly the moment when he starts plotting his escape. Morris witnesses the cruelty of the warden time after time, which inspires him to construct an elaborate plot that hopes to set Morris and three other inmates free. Did they ever make it out alive? We'll talk about that in today's episode. Yeah, this is a true story of the escape by Frank Morris. Clarence and John England from Alcatraz Scott. One of the things I really loved about this movie was the opening. We see that it's January eighteenth, nineteen sixty, Frank Morris is being taken across the bay transported to Alcatraz.

2:32 What I loved about it is the fact that there was hardly there's no dialogue until they took the cuffs off of him when he got into the prison, and we get that drum beat from the score and the slow arrival to the Rock. You know, this gives not only Frank's first look at it, but we see it through his eyes as he approaches. No words, give it a much more ominous vibe to the place. I think it added so much more depth to film, wouldn't you agree? I agree? Yeah. I mean personally, I'm watching this for the first time, so I'm seeing it through the lens of somebody who has seen nineteen ninety six Is the Rock several times. And what struck me was how similar the beginnings of both movies really are. Because you have that militaristic kind of marching drum beat, the darkness, the rain.

3:24 A lot of similarities there, but it also kind of gave that tone of even though it's not a military prison, that there's a very kind of regimented, kind of militaristic order to the operation of the prison. Oh yeah, absolutely, And basically he's being escorted to this place where he's going to spend the rest of his life. So I thought it was a very clever use of not only the sound but the imagery. I got kind of Halloween vibes from nineteen seventy eight when they were approaching and they saw that giant sign about turned back, you're approaching a federal It seemed like that scene in the opening of Halloween where they kind of right up to the the institution. But yeah, it was a great way to uh open up this this movie. You see him being stripped of any kind of remnants of civilian life, that it's over for Frank in this moment.

4:20 Yeah, I mean, and and once you get that little bit of dialogue with him getting the cuffs taken off, we go back to no dialogue. I mean, he gets stripped, examined, escort through the prison to his cell until you get the welcome to Alcatraz, followed that by that wonderful lightening crash. Yeah, Interestingly enough, he's inspected in that scene when he's taken down to the buff by the director Don Siegel in a in a cameo. He's the one that's basically striped searching Eastwood. Well, I mean all it has to you know, looking at his mouth and whatnot. But kind of an interesting, interesting choice there that. That is quite interesting. Actually, I think this is based off of the nineteen sixties book by Jay Campbell Bruce.

5:03 Is that correct? Yeah, I think it's Jay Bruce Campbell. No, he Didaddy with Bruce Campbell. It's Jay Campbell Bruce, which I think he wrote this just a few years after the incident took place at Alcatraz, so obviously fresh in the mind of America when that happened. Yeah, And it's also kind of an interesting circumstance that not long after this famous escape, Alcatraz was closed. And I don't think necessarily one had directly to do with the other, other than just you know, bringing to light a lot of the decay that was happening around the prison.

5:44 But I mean the timing of it is exquisite because it makes it that much more legendary to say this is the last escape that ever happened from Alcatraz and is basically the right on the heels of the death of Alcatraz itself. One of my favorite lines this movie comes pretty early into the film when Frank is taken to the warden and basically the warden is getting him the rundown of basically, you know your mine, you will only see what I want you to see, you know, basically those kind of things. But his line was, you know, Alcatraz was built to keep all the rotten eggs in one basket, and I was especially chosen to make sure that stink from the basket does not escape. I loved that line, I really did.

6:27 There's a man that's that's that's pretty powerful, right there, warden. Yeah, I mean, of all the I think it's also interesting that it's a nameless warden. Yeah, I mean throughout the movie he's never necessarily named. In the credits, it gives him a full name, but it's just the warden. Yeah. And in terms of the actors you that could have been chosen for this role Patrick McGowin. I immediately recognized him as the aging and villainous King Edward from Braveheart, of course, but I didn't know how well known. This actor was for so many other works before this. He's done a ton of stuff.

7:07 Yeah, he was the top actor in the fifties and sixties in the UK for things like The Prisoner, which is kind of an interesting parallel to this. He was originally chosen to play Gandolf in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the Modern Trilogy, and Dumbledore in the Higher Potter films, which interesting casting. Yeah, yeah, I would have. Apparently he's devoted to his wife. He often refused movies that would involve love scenes because he didn't want to kind of cheat on his wife in that way, and had an intense dislike for guns so much so that he wouldn't He insisted his characters in things like The Prisoner didn't use guns. So, although my first reaction is yeah, it's Lung Shanks, he has so much more to him.

7:55 He's a fascinating actor, he really does. I remember watching this again, I guess I kept watching the Man Where'd I know him from? And then at Don and he said, oh my goodness, he's from Brave Heart. He was. He was almost James Bond twice. Wow. Okay, he was considered for James Bond and Doctor now before Sean Connery got it and turned down Live and Let Die. Hmm, he had a chance to replace Roger Morris James Bond. Again, I don't know that I would have cast it that way, but. No, a lot of layers to this word there really is. I don't know if I would have seen it that way, but as Bond as him his Bond. But hey, whatever, we got what we deserve. Recippose so exactly. Moving further into this movie, what's the character named Wolf? That dude that was creeper man? First off, as soon as you see him with playing with the spaghetti and on how he was, you knew where that was going as soon as he introduced that character, right, and and.

8:53 He holds the batch and lets it burn down to his fingers. Yeah, very intimid character. But not to Clint Eastwood, right, No, not obviously stands up to him. But yeah, Bruce Bruce Fisher does a great job of having that kind of creepy presence to Wolf. Yeah in this Yeah, they could have cast it some way better for that, that's for sure. And then we get the introduction to Litmus, who is obviously has a pet mouse. I got a lot of reminded, was it the Green Mile that we had that in? Is it the Green Mile? Was that? Yes? It was in the Green Mile? Yea had the pet mouse and then the Shawshank. It was a pet bird, That's what it was.

9:37 Yeah. Yeah, but when when I saw that, it gave me a lot of vibes of the Green Mile I was watching. In this again, luckily the mouse had a much better ending. Yes, this one then the Green Mile. Well, we hope, so I'm hoping when Frank gets to the shore of Alcatraz he lets the mouse go, because otherwise that mouse is drowned for sure, like unless he had a little tiny life jacket that he kind of stitched together. But okay, now we got a whole new movie. What happened to the best? Actually? Yea, but new I thought that was a nice touched to the film. And it added another depth of a character, you know, to help see the prison life and have some way that, you know, to counterbalance what was going on within the prison.

10:26 Yeah, yeah, I mean it shows a lot of the personalities that we dive into. Litmus was a great example of somebody who had a sense of humor. He knew that he was there for life, and he was just taking it in stride, like, but he's you know, offering up to play a poker with the other guys and things like that. So it was an interesting introduction to prison life and kind of the spectrum of people you get when we're talking about those are kind of on the the friendly end of the spectrum. The next person that comes to mind for me is Doc Oh, yeah, played by Roberts Blossom. This actor I've known for a long time for things like Christine Home Alone. You remember him as the Marley character. Yep. Roberts has so much emotional range in this role. It's astonishing.

11:21 And what's gonna say is adding to that, what's crazy is the fact that these are guys that are in prison, but you they still make you feel for them. And Doc is a perfect example of that when they take his painting away, like his life is over, you know, and he knows it and you know, and that's why he has the reaction he does, you know, when he asks for the hatchet and what he does to his fingers, you your heart just breaks for this guy when he gets his paintings taken from him. Absolutely well, I mean, you see the the interactions that he has with Frank gives him a lot of range, like he's being helped, he's being you know, kind of joyful and showing like you can have you know, you can have things beyond these walls. These don't walls, don't define you, they just surround you. When he has the painting taken away in the cell, the the emotional breakdown that he has is very telegraphic, is very you feel for him absolutely in that absolutely in that moment, and it carries through to the wood shop scene where you see his face contort and you know, he does that kind of blinking thing, and you can see him going through this kind of process of taking this action. And I was I was wondering where the hatchet was going to go. Honestly, I didn't know if he was going to throw it into a guard, if he was going

12:52 to just eliminate himself Entirely. I was not expecting him to chop off his fingers. But that's one of the moments when you see Frank's character just snap and decide that's it. Yeah. I thought it was a powerful scene when he goes and grabs the fingers and puts them in the box and he takes it over and shoves it to the guard here. Put that in your report, you know. I just oh, I love that scene. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you have a lot of a lot of characters in here in Alcatraz, so it's the you know, most inescapable person ever, so you have to kind of wonder what each of these people have done to arrive here, but you never really find out. As far as I can remember. The only person where you get any kind of background is English, played by Paul Benjamin, who, again I recognize this actor from several other works, usually when he's older, so it's very interesting to see him in this younger role. And his story as well is heartbreaking that he has two back to back ninety nine year sentences for basically self defense. I mean, he killed people in self defense.

14:09 But just they were white and that's why you raise that. Yeah, that's just absolutely heartbreaking. Yeah, it really is. He's such an amazing supportive character for Frank and oh yeah, for I would say for the prison in general. He's just trying to keep the the madness of it at a baseline and make it a livable life. Yeah. I liked the introduction to these two characters. When Frank goes to the library, you know, to assist with like, you know, taking some books and magazines to d block, and you get that English basically calling him boy a few times, and then Frank gives it right back. You know. It's almost like that respect at that point to each other, you know, right right, Yeah, And of course you get that.

14:55 You get that follow up scene too, when they're outside. He goes up there, you know, to sit with English and then he doesn't, and then obviously you've got some you know, very racial dialogue rut there, which we're not going to talk about. Yeah, but then he comes back and sits down with him, and again more respect between the two characters. There, right, which in that scene I had kind of read, as you know, English had just explained to him kind of the hierarchy of the steps you have to earn this height. So I thought Frank was kind of stepping away from that to say like, I'm not gonna sit next to the throne, right because I have to respect that. And then English was like, no, I want you to sit here. Let's chat, right. Yeah, you mentioned the library scene.

15:38 I didn't realize watching this who was the first person on Frank's delivery route from the library. A very young individual. Go ahead, who is it? Yes, I had to watch this a couple of times to get it. It was Danny Glover yep, in his movie debut. We don't get the signature myrtaw voice, which is a shame. I'm not sure why I was dubbed over, but I'm getting over this shit exactly. But you can see the trademark Glover, you know, uh, movement of his head as he's delivering lines. Yeah. I think that was a great little easter egg in there. I just wish they had, you know, done more with with Danny's abilities.

16:20 But I do too. I wish there was a little bit more. But you really couldn't go that way because you you're telling a different story, you know, and if you were to dive into all that stuff, it'd be a whole lot longer for a movie, and I think it would detract from the pacing of the film. So I understand that you have to let some of that stuff go in order to make sure you're telling the story that you want to tell. Yeah, but you know, there's there's there's so much to this man. There's some stuff that I think they've cut out that I wish they would have added, you know, like I said, being a history buff, that dam I wish they had dived in a little bit more of them creating the left raft. And it really wasn't a life raft in this movie. In real life, it was a life draft that they made this one. It was just what that liked. Yeah, yeah, that's basically all they created. But that's not true. What they really created was a life about is what they made.

17:09 I would like to have seen them do more of that. You know, we really didn't dive into that portion of it. It was more of them just getting the tools to dig out. I mean, sure we see some of that, a little bit of that, but not as much as I really wanted to see. You know. If there's anything that I disliked about this film, it was that portion. Yeah, And I do wonder if they had to make if they had the intention or the ability to make kind of an extended cut. But then it's seen how long it was running and said, all right, to be efficient, let's cut to the chase. I do think it's also interesting how much we got kind of details of how they executed this escape. And I'm curious to know how much of it was accurate. So for example, the fan that they turned into a drill, yeah, actually.

17:59 Did much all accurate. Man, what they did. Wow, they were smart, man, They were really intelligent on how they were able to get planned their escape, do the escape and get out of there. See, everything you see is on par of what really happened, obviously, except what I talked about with the lifeboat kind of thing, but still right, very close. Yeah. Well, and you know, one of the best aspects of the escape, or one of the one of my favorite parts of it, was the punctuation of it with the chrysanthemum. Yea, that's sitting there on the rocks. This just perfectly intact, just sitting there waiting like they knew that he's going to come this way and look for us, and just have this kind of greeting card for him, which is a nod back to Doc. Right, he says, the flower symbolizes me, like it can't keep me contained, which they ultimately rebel against and you know, make that escape.

18:53 But the links that they had to go to, wow, oh yeah, there's a lot of details here. Like you said, it's that you know, I think they noted in Frank's Dacier. He has a superior IQ. It absolutely comes through everything from painting over a new grade to creating the fake heads. Oh yeah, I mean it was really in depth on this planet that they did, man, and actually they were able to pull it off as just a miracle in itself. But it just shows you the brilliance of those guys, it really does. I want to want to call out a couple of the actors who played the England brothers, Clarence and John. You got Jack Cibo who was in the Hitcher in nineteen eighty six as a trooper Preston, which I know we covered in the nineteen eighty six series.

19:38 But the only one I really want to call out is good old mister Fred Ward, who plays John England. A lot of you who love Trimmers is going to know are going to remember him who played Earl. But yeah, no, this I think this is Fred Ward. I think he had some television, but I think this is his first major role in a movie. Out that's considering, Like, you know, coming back to this from a modern perspective, it's fascinating to see where he gets his start. Oh yeah, it absolutely is one other actor that I want to call out who I thought my heart broke for this character is Larry Hinkn, who played Charlie Butts. Yeah. Yeah, this guy was just you know, trying to make his way through prison, you know, and just you know, gets in on the escape plan. But then as you see, he really breaks down when they're escaping. You know, he's scared, he's nervous, he doesn't know if he can do it, they can pull it off, and he's almost frozen in fear, right, I mean, that's what you're getting right there. And when he finally decides, hey, you know what, I'm going to go join them, he gets to the point where he can't jump up to grab the bars because there's no one there to assist him and it's too high up.

20:53 It was really heartbreaking, man. It was. I mean, Larry did an amazing job of showing that kind of that struggle and that turmoil. Right his face is trembling, and I wanted so badly for him to be able to find some clever way to jump up and reach those bars, but he never could get there. Again, this is somebody who I've grown up with. Seeing an older Larry hankin He's in one of my favorite movies of nineteen eighty six. He's in Running Scared. Is Ace the Mechanic the queue of Running Scared. But you know, he comes to this movie as kind of an everyman, right, probably somebody who's a bit down on his luck and just happened to get dealt kind of a bad hand. Ye. The fact that he can't make it, it really breaks your heart. At the same time that the bravery that it took when they were doing the headcount, when they were ultimately you know, discovered the escape had happened, He's just standing right there at the bars, like, Okay, yeah, let's talk. I mean, you probably can't catch them at this point because they're already gone or they drowned and they died, but I'm still here.

22:16 So yeah, there's It's just so much was going on in that scene that I mean, you know, I again, I knew how it was going to happen. I knew how it was going to end, but I'm telling me, it was filmed so well that I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. They're gonna get caught, They're gonna get caught, and I know, I'm like come on, you know this story, you know what happens. But still it was done so well. It really kept you on the edge of your seat. Well for a first time, or I'll tell you. Even the scene where Charlie can't whistle right right, it's like, I don't know if it's nerves or what he's supposed to, you know, you know, whistle a tune, uh to signal that the guards are coming, and he can't. It's like he's got a mouthful of crackers, right, he just can't get it out. It was very tense, like there was no point where I was thinking, Oh, they're going to get caught, they're going to get thrown in solitary whatever.

23:08 You knew they were going to actually get out. Whether or not they survive, it feels like the movie leaves that kind of ambiguous, which is very smartly punctuated by that end scene right over the credits of kind of an eerie music. I would say, yep, with that kind of frightening. Maybe it's because of the real hair, but that paper mache head yikes. So I'm air fuel. There is some documentaries about this escape and about the did survive, did they survive? Did they not? Survive. Apparently the FBI got a letter many many years later from South America from the England Brothers. Interesting that they did survive this. One of my fav favorite guys on the history excuse me, on the Discovery channel who does Expedition Unknown.

24:14 He did an episode about this escape and he also went down to South America and he actually interviewed people who knew of the England Brothers in South America after the escaped Alcatraz. The guy's name is Josh Kate. So if you ever want to watch the episode, look it up. Expedition Unknown Undiscovery. Really good episode and he actually covers this. So by the sounds of it, Scott, they did make it. Yeah, well, I mean speaking of you know, groof in the modern day. I think there was an episode of MythBusters where they had kind of recreated the elements of the escape and things like that. So yeah, I would definitely try that down and check that out.

24:58 Yeah, it's very interesting. Some other scenes in this episode that were kind of heartbreaking is too is Litmus, I guess having his heart attack. Yeah, when the warden came over to take the flower away, and you know that's obviously where the mouse kind of. Escapes, yeah, where he kind of crushes it in his hands. Yeah, yeah, Oh my god. Yeah. And I really didn't want that to happen to Litmus. I was so sad to see that happen and there's just nothing they can do. He drives to the floor and that's over. Yeah, it was. It was definitely heartbreaking. Obviously. I want to talk a little bit about Don Siegel too. He's the guy who directed this film. He worked a lot with Clint Easwood obviously over the years, and I think that's why the involvement between the two of them is in But I think this is the last time they would work together.

25:44 Was this film. I know he directed Funny Enough Between You and I Scott. He did the nineteen fifty six Invasion of the Body Stature. I saw that. I saw that. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, And I mean, like you said, it's not the first time they've teamed up. They've done Dirty Harry, Two Mules for Sister Sarah, among others. But uh yeah, apparently they had a fallout over how to kind of credit the production of it, as I understand it, Eastwood when it is uh mal Poso Company to be credited. Siegel kind of fought for making it a SEAgel film. They had a kind of a joint agreement, but they were finally able to agree how to move forward. But it established a bit of a rift between them, so they wouldn't work again after this.

26:33 Which is quite a shame because they were they were very talented individuals. But they were talented, really good when they were together. But you know, things happen, unfortunately, and that's what happened here. I find it also interesting that the movie that they were watching in here was Hell Is for Heroes, which is directed by Don Siegel and starring Steve McQueen. Right, so he got to choose choose like his favorite scenes for you know, wait here, I wanted a show. There of course? Why not? Right? All right, well tell you what, Scott. Let's take a little bit of a break and when we come back we will talk about through the lens. All right, Welcome back everybody where. Scott and I are discussing here at film at forty five Escape from Alcatraz starring Clint east Wood, drect by Don Siegel. So, Scott, looking through the lens, did you find anything interesting?

27:29 So I just want to kind of give credit where credits due in terms of how well this did in nineteen seventy nine. Obviously, it's not that long after the prison has closed, so it's still freshened people's minds and kind of an interesting story to follow up on. Consistently highly rated even among modern critics, which is good to see. It was highly successful at the time, earning five point three million in the US during its opening weekend, getting forty three million in the US and Canada, making it the fifteenth highest grossing picture of nineteen. Seven denied, which is funny in the fact that so many studios that want to touch this. It's like, yeah, nobody wants to see a movie about people in prison. Well you were wrong.

28:11 Right, Well, I mean, especially when you have this kind of you know, maybe their perception of what a prison movie was would be always going to have a lot of fights in the yard. It's going to have a lot of content that you know, might be kind of uncomfortable, you know, But it's not kind of a prison movie as much as it seems to be almost kind of like a heist movie, right, even though they're not not going over a bank. It's very much centering around even though they're in prison, even though they're convicted, kind of the injustices against them spiritually, If nothing else from this Warden.

28:59 As much as Warden was trying to keep order, he obviously went too far in a couple of occasions. So it's very much kind of a you know, the machinations of the plan watching that unfold, and the tense drama of seeing whether or not they'll actually be able to get out or not. Yeah. What I also found very interesting about this This was actually filmed while that place was still open for tourists right now, and apparently they, like they to a tour came through like what every half hour, they could only get like thirty minutes of footage and then any would have to stop and wait, and then I guess eventually they got tired of that and they moved to a lot of night shoots. But man, what a nightmare that would. Have been, absolutely thought. I think I read somewhere that Glynt Eastwood had even kind of agreed to people like, if you'll stop badgering the crew, I'll sign autographs afterward. Yeah, basically trying to kind of push people off. Yeah, and even though it was you know, open to tourists. There was a lot that they had to do to bring it back to filmable standards, right, Like, it's been a lot of money. It was already in a state of disrepair when they shut it down in the in sixty three, and at this point they had to do a lot of repainting, even though they had to have very carefully applied paint because there was there is I think it's graffiti and art that was put thereby some Native American groups and they didn't want to trial that are cover

30:32 right right, Yeah, so they had to use basically paint they could easily come off without damaging the art underneath. And no electricity, so they're fifteen miles of cables to to keep the lights on essentially, which is that's crazy, very interesting. That seems like it's a lot of power that we needed for that place. Yeah. Well, even even the rain scenes and stuff. They had a pipe in water because they couldn't use the ocean because of the salt water. Yeah, they had that's that is crazy all that had to do. But I tell you what it worked out for that prison though, for you know, for a historical site, because they were able to get a lot of that fixed because of the studio to bring it up the standards, to make it look you know, better than what it was because it was falling apart. So I mean it kind of it worked out for them to let them use this as a set, I think.

31:22 Yeah. And I mean, you know, the success of this movie I think would have some kind of influence on you know, investing and continuing upkeep of Alcatraz is a historical site, right, Yeah, and we see Acatraz use several times after this for a lot of movie locations. Yeah. Absolutely, again going back to those days with the usual sets, you know, I mean, they actually used the actual location. Uh. And it shows, you know, it really does. And I think that again added another dimension, uh to this film. It was actually using that location. Another thing is, uh, they didn't hire stunt something men. When Clinton's wood, Fred Ward and Jack Deviat was going down the side of the building, that was actually the actors doing that.

32:08 Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a bold move. Hopefully they had you know, some some pads at the bottom just in case they fell, but uh, that's kudos to the actors for being willing to go through that for this movie. Yeah. Absolutely, you won't have that nowadays. Man, they would throw a fit about using the real actors in situations like that, Tom Cruise. Good luck getting the insurance for the studio. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, all right in anything else, Scott. So one last note that I think is kind of interesting tying it back to the modern day ninety six movie we were just talking about. When Don Siegel read the j. Campbell Bruce book, he wrote a treatment in nineteen sixty six called The Rock based on this book, considering the movie that we got with Sean Connery and Nicholas Cage. Yeah, it's very interesting that that was the title he chose.

33:16 It isn't it and obviously was on purpose of course, right, but it comes full circle, right it does? Yeah, all right, well let's score it. Jerry Fielding obviously did the music for this. One of the things that I find very interesting about the music in this movie is the fact the lack of it at a lot of times. And typically I would throw a fit about that, because you know me, I love a good score. But in this movie there were so many times that didn't need it, and I'm glad they didn't use it. I mean, if you really think about it, we get the drums at the beginning of the movie, which help adds the tension as we're approaching Alcatraz, and then obviously you get the big build up score as there's gaping in the ending stuff.

34:02 As you said with the fake head that it's rolling, But in between that, you don't really get a lot and you don't need it. I totally agree. I think this is one where any kind of music would have taken away from that idea of isolation and the probably the deafening silence within the prison, because all of that is taken away right there. There are no records, there is no music, there's nothing that would kind of fill those halls, So to have it filled with music feels like it would be a bit artificial. I think the times when they did use music was very appropriate. We already talked about the drum beat in the beginning, but the creepy music that seems to kind of build throughout the escape punctuated at the end did it did a great job of making it feel like a very tense atmosphere. I appreciated that.

35:04 Joyce more Yeah, I know many of the authors who have seen some of these movies. Jerry Fielding has done. He did Dirty Harry, The Enforcer. He also did Outlaws, Josie Wales, The Outsiders, Beyond, the Poseidon Adventure, The Gauntlet, the Bad News Bears, just to name a few. But Scott, I think you said he has a connection to something else, does he not? Yeah? So I was. I was surprised to learn as I was going through this that there's a connection to something else that's near and dear to both of our hearts. As I understand that Jerry Fielding wrote the scores for season two and three of Star Trek the original series. Wow, yeah, I never knew that.

35:46 I didn't either. But interesting connection to what we usually talk about on Phaser set is done. Yeah, absolute. It's always nice when we connect phasers to set. This done to other movies. So no good call out there, Scott, yep, All right, well let's quote this. Find anything interesting. So I did see something interesting, not necessarily from you know, it was hard to look for interviews about Escape from Alcatraz because everything that came up in the search would go back to the actual escape itself, so I couldn't necessarily hear anything from the cast, the crew, from Don Siegel.

36:26 So instead of you know, fighting the wind. I just kind of leaned into it and found an interesting snippet from a BBC interview where prison warden Richard Willard was interviewed in nineteen sixty four. He was very much under the impression that this trio did not make it. He says, yes, we were short a few, but they are not bragging about it. In other words, that assumably all those that were that we are short drowned in the procedure. There is, to our knowledge, nobody walking the street today bragging about having escaped from Alcatraz. Why am I so sure? You hear the wind, don't you? And you see the water?

37:07 Do you think you could make it? I think that was I think it's kind of a egotistical presumption. You say that they did not make it, But for me, I definitely think it would have been a very difficult journey, to say the least. And I don't know if I could have made it. What about you, Dave, There's no way I could have made that. But yeah, for me, I actually dug off a quote from Roger Ebert in nineteen seventy nine, So he says, so the movie doesn't have the ending that its superb beginnings had us expecting with Escape from Alcatraz. Though I think that's acceptable. There's so much else that's so good in the film, in the performances, the characters, the minuently observed details of prison life, the timing events leading up to the escape, that we realize how rare such craftsmanship really is.

38:05 Yeah, it's true. I could agree more with Roger Ebert on that one. I say that's fair. Yeah, And you know, considering some of the movies that are feeling the pressure to do a lot of a lot more with special effects and things like that, I think the production of this movie very much fits the story. Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely, all right, any what ifs I. Did find it interesting Apparently before Patrick McGowan was signed on, Clint Eastwood considered Donald Sutherland where John Vernon as a board of the two, I think Donald Sutherland would have been a fascinating whole again, but I think he would have had a much different energy. I think it would have been similar to what we saw in the Hunger Games, right, but in this era, you know, fresh off of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, I'd always be looking for that signature done Southerland smile, right, and I think it's fitting that this Warden rarely, if ever did so. I think they got the right choice here.

39:15 Oh no, absolutely they did. This Warden just gave off those vibes that man, you are a jackass, and he's so full of himself, and it comes off in every scene that he's in. All right, well, let's move on to the rewind and he likes dislikes. There's a lot that we already talked about. There is one scene that I missed from Charlie Butts, and I think it's one of the standout performances here. When he's talking to his wife. Oh yes, I forgot about that scene. Good call, and he finally kind of breaks, you know, the the guard interrupts the call and says like, you can't talk about the you know, inner workings of the prison or whatever. Yeah, and his rage just pops from in place you really don't expect from this unassuming looking man.

40:06 Uh. He just explodes. And then on the other side of the glass. The performance by his wife matches that emotion, just saying like I love you as slowly as she can, you know, making sure that he understands how she feels that It was just again heartbreak. Yeah, that's that's something you weren't expecting coming in that film, and then you get it and it was You're right, they drove that home and it hit hard, that's for sure. Yeah. So, I mean one of the things that there's a lot of scenes in this that are really really well done, and it seems like the two that I choose are the ones around the Warden and Frank Morris. But the one line that he gives, and this is after Doc is gone and everything, he goes up to him and says, there's always the possibility of some asshole will be offended, isn't there talking about the painting, And I'd love that line.

41:04 I'm like, yeah, I get under that skin of that warden for what he did to Doc. Love that. I do have one dislike in this film, and that is the using of the fade out too much. Oh yeah, you know, you really need to limit using fade outs. I felt this movie did it way too much. I don't know if it was really a thing. I haven't paid attention to Don Siegel's work. What if he uses that a lot in his films. Maybe he doesn't. I just didn't really pay attention. But this one. It really stood out to me. I'm like, why do we keep fading out so much? Can we not use that dissolve here from time from time to time? But it just felt awkward a lot. Am I wrong in that?

41:55 No? I mean, now that you mentioned that, I guess there is a lot of that happening in the movie. It didn't it didn't stand out as much to me. But this was such a fresh watch that it's possible that on a rewatch that's something it's a little bit more pronounced. Yeah, if you do go rewatch it, pay attention to that. You two listeners, if you go to watch this again, what do you think about that? Is? Did they use fade outs too much? I think they did. Maybe I'm wrong, It could be it happens, But still great movie. I'm not going to detract it from that. No way, absolutely, And I mean I think it's easy to see the impact of this movie aside from what we've already talked about. Hopefully it went. You know, some of the money went back into restoration of the Falcon Traser.

42:38 At least the popularity fed that a little bit. Yeah, there's some obvious big film connections. You'll be able to see, especially with Shush Anchordemption, as you mentioned before, the Green Mile. While the source material for each of those is very distinct, they're very distinct stories. What they have in common is really the fact that they're set in prison. One is about an escape, the other one not so much. But you can definitely see the dna of how they kind of approach the drama in this movie with a lot of earnestness. They definitely wanted to not so much say that, you know, all these prisoners should be free, because again, we don't know what they did to get in here, but it does still recognize them as human beings yep, right from different walks of life with different interests and seeing what you know, as red says in josh Ank Redemption, what being institutionalized does to a man. So if you're a fan of any of those kind of movies, this definitely is worth a watch. There's so much more to it than beyond the escape itself, which I had always gotten the impression from the poster, from the title that it was mostly going to be you know, there's going to be a lot more fighting in this one, a lot more physicality. There really isn't. It's a lot of dramatic profiles of various people in prison and what that does to them and what they'd be the links they

44:10 would be willing to go to to get out of it. Yeah, I mean, it's a Clint Eastwood movie, So you think that he's going to be constantly this badass who kicks a bunch of butt. He kicks a wolf spot, which he deserved in the shower, So but who will overlook that? But I mean, you expect a Clint Eatwood movie that he's going to be playing this guy who's going to be constantly fighting and you know, showing how bad ass he is. He is badass, Yes, we would admit that, but it's a little bit different film for Cline's Wood, you know. Yeah, absolutely, And I think it's a good direction for him to go in because he's showing that he has the you know, dramatic ability beyond the so called action movies.

44:51 Not that he wasn't able to demonstrate that in other pictures before this one, but it's definitely one that shows his range. Yeah. Absolutely. In further of the impact of this film, too, is I love the fact that the writer of this really went out of his way to make sure this film got made because so we kind of mentioned a little bit earlier that so many studios passed up on us because they said, it's it's a movie about people in prison, nobody's gonna want to watch that. I'm glad that the writer kepped to his guns and kept pushing and got this made and got this pushed through and it became what it is, because it definitely is a classic to anyone who's into cinema, and it really has its place there, and then it deserves it because it is a really fantastic film.

45:36 Yeah, I'm glad that you covered this one. Yeah, me too. Where'd you watch this up? I saw it on Amazon Prime, which is a bit of a relief because usually when you're looking for kind of behind the scenes facts, there's always that great feature on the app at least that gives you a little bit more of a closer look. What about you, I don't own this one, so I did the same thing as you. I watched it on Prime is where I caught it at. Definitely worth the rent. If you've not seen this, go check it out. It's totally worth it. Yeah, and while you're at it, dig deeper into the destination Unknown episode on the MythBusters episode. Absolutely, after watching this movie, say don't spoil anything.

46:19 Yep, absolutely, highly highly recommend Josh Gates's Expedition Unknown. All of his work is incredible, but yes, the episode he does about Alcatraz is a lot of fun to watch. Yep. All right. As always, we want to thank our listeners for tuning in and listening to our excitement about films from nineteen seventy nine. If you want to reach us, you can find us at www dot film by podcast dot com. You can also write us at a film podcast at gmail dot com. You can find us on all the social media's until our film rules start rolling again. Go out watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you'll discover next. Thanks everyone.

47:00 Yeah, let's break down out here, Yes, break