A Film at 45: The Amityville Horror

0:00 Hello everyone, and welcome back to nineteen seventy nine. In a Film Buys limited series, A Film at forty five. I'm David Burns and. I'm Scott Hoffman, and as usual, we're dusting off the end of a decade the change Cinema Forever with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems that we can't stop watching. This week, we're moving into a lovely nightmare of a house in the original classic, the Amityville Horror. Fine, no, well. It is the passage guest that strength of mindy.

0:49 For God's Sake, get out, claim to be based on a true story by writer Jay Anson. Director Stuart Rosenberg takes us to the very famous House of Pure Evil, a house that does indeed have memories, a house that truly loves the Witching Hour, a house that was famously investigated by Ed and Lorraine Warren. And as Scott said, of course we are talking about the Amneyville Horror. But before we dive into the film, we have a guest with us, none other than our Phasers set the stunt co host Wayne Whitett, who I know deeply loves this film. Welcome Wayne to A Film at forty five.

1:30 Oh, thanks for having me here, I think get out. Well. You know I have quite a history with this film. You'll do it all about. It, ye Wayne. I know we've known each other for a very many, many years, long time, and I know this film has come up in conversations on our road trips, those kind of things from here and there. I find it very fitting that here you are sitting down join talking about this film on a podcast. I love it, I do. I can't wait to hear this story. I gotta hear about it. Yeah. I as a kid, as a young kid, I was fortunate enough to watch a lot of horror films, mainly because of my sister Sherry. She she didn't care if there was an age limit. She took me to see them all, and I looked forward to seeing the Ambityville Horror. I remember seeing the original trailer and getting really excited. I'll keep in mind this is seven year old me and I was really excited. Now, I didn't see this in theaters. I actually saw this on HBO HBO debut, but for months, that's all I talked about was the Ambityville Horror. That's I couldn't wait to see it.

2:51 I just couldn't wait to see it, and then I saw it, and I have been traumatized since then. I am so sorry and so happy to hear that. I was hoping that would be the story. I don't know why this film traumatized me, really though. It scared the crap out of me, because I mean, I saw Halloween, I saw Orca, I saw The Hills Have Eyes Friday the thirteenth, Nap didn't do anything to me. And then there's the Amityville Horror, which I refused to watch until yesterday. I haven't this. I've seen it twice in my life, and yesterday was the second time. I just couldn't bring myself to even think about it. It'd come on TV channel instantly changed. I couldn't even I couldn't even listen to the music.

3:44 So when you watched it this latest time, did you ever feel your blood run cold. At the beginning? Yes? Yes I did. I was scared to watch this film, you know. I known that I'm gonna been on this this podcast for a long long time, and every I keep saying I'm going to watch this, I'm going to watch this today, and I kept putting it off until I absolutely had to and even then I was afraid to push play. Wow. I mean, that's that's a great experience to have. Honestly, even though it sounds horrible and traumatizing, when something hits a chord with you that deeply, I can relate. There are a few movies like that with me. But as soon as you see the opening credits, as soon as you hear some of those chords and you just get that, all the temperature in your blood just drops and you're like, wait a second, what's going on? And you can't shake it.

4:36 Yeah, you can't. You get those goosebumps and you know what's coming. So yeah, well, I'm glad you did it. Wayne, I'm glad you're here to discuss. It with this really absolutely, and we have new opinions on the film too. Excellent, right, I'm looking forward to hearing those. Well, Scott, I know this is a pretty famous film, but I'm sure there are a few out there who haven't laid eyes on it. So how would you describe this to them? Some people believe that houses don't have memories, but some people really should, especially George and Kathy Lots. They've just bought a beautiful house in New York with a horrific history of mass murder. They move in with their dogs and three kids and what seems like the start of a simple life, but they soon start to see the evil in the house seet through. No one from the church can approach the house without tortuous consequences. Their daughter connects with a deadly friend who's either invisible or imaginary, but malevolent all the same. As some strange occurrences happen, George starts to lose his grip on his temper and his sanity, and the family continues to unravel with morbid and earthshaking consequences. This independent film is a classic in the genre where a haunted house soon becomes a haunted family.

5:42 Good good, good summary. It's very fitting too that we're talking about this movie because it's October. Guys, you know, this is the best time to watch horror movies. And what better way to get it going is obviously with the Amityville Horror. This was only like a five million dollar budget film and ended up making like eighty seven million dollars, So it definitely took cinema by storm very very successfully. And I know there's a lot of reviews out there people mixed reviews on this film, and I'm sure we'll discuss a little bit on that later. But you know, as you said, you know, we've got George Lutz and Kathy Lutz who move into this house. George obviously played by James Brolin, who already has a very successful career up to this point and after that, up to a present day of us doing this podcast, a huge list of movies that James Brolin has done. I know he actually met the Lutz family and apparently and his children, and apparently he was very doubtful about the story apparently what he came up with anyway, But the one movie, did you guys ever see the movie The Car in nineteen seventy seven? Did you either want of them who've seen that movie? Nope?

6:54 Years ago on TV. That's the one movie that besides the Mivial Horror, that's the one movie that I relate to with James Brolin immediately because I saw The Car when I was a little kid and I loved it, still love it to this day. But I know, I remember when I saw him in Namyville whore, I'm like, oh, that's the dude from the Car. But yeah, really really good job is George Lutts. And of course Marget Kidder. Come on, guys, Marget Kidder who played Lois Lane. She plays Kathy Lts in this and as we all know, Scott and I talked about Superman last year. Yeah, yeah, Bargo Kidder is iconic for a lot of different roles, and this is something that she's coming, you know, fresh off the heels of the original Superman yep. And I think it's very interesting to see her in this role that's a lot different from Lois Lane. Like there's a lot it's not you know, seeking adventure in the next story, it's very much wanting to kind of settle down, had a simpler life, raise the kids, enjoy a house.

8:05 That's a beautiful house. I mean it's got that boat house outside that I think would be a lot of money today to say the little Absolutely, what did they get this for like eighty grand. Eighty thousand And I was like, really, it's probably like eight million to day. Yeah, I mean we have a very bloody evil. Yeah, it probably fine, right, it's definitely a fixer upper. But yeah, Margo Kidder shines in this one, even though she apparently wasn't too much of a fan of the movie. Now it wasn't. Did a great job. But you know what really surprised me about her role in this is she shows some skin in this thing. Yeah, you know, I'm like, WHOA, what's going on here? I was so used to seeing her as Lowest Lane and I see this, I like, what is happening now?

8:48 Right, that's my first time seeing this movie. So that took me off guard or caught me off guard, and I was like, all right, Margo, ahead for it, showing off. Whatever works. Whatever. The other one in the cast who I really appreciated is Rod Steigert, who plays Father Delaney in this. To me, he was my favorite character of the whole film. And it's really sad what he goes through because he is sickened by this house, loses his vision and still isn't able to do what he wants the most, and that has helped the Lutz family, you know, to me, he was more of a victim than the Lutz family. Would you guys agree with that?

9:31 Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that. I feel his you know, he's so under used in this film in my opinion, because he's such a great actor. I mean, heck, he's an Academy Award winner. Yep. But he's great in every scene, and you're absolutely right, he's he's really the biggest victim out of them all. Yeah, it's it's quite a shame, but what he goes through. But it just shows you the power that he had. You know, even when he went blind and he knew something was going to happen, when he started, you know, doing his thing of praising God and stuff like that, he knew it was coming and he just kept it going. He didn't care because of his faith, and that just you know, instituted how much of a stronger character he was and made me appreciate him that much more.

10:15 Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely a strong trifacta going on here with the three key protagonists, and I know that there are other people that are, you know, at odds with it. Obviously there are the kids, but you know, I think the father Delaney character does a great job of exploring kind of the religious roots of it. Yep. To say, it's not just kind of the unnamed poltergeist, then it would be a ghost kind of haunting. It's something that feels like it's rooted in a deeper kind of evil. Yeah, you've got Margot Kidder Kathy Lutz playing someone who doesn't seem to necessarily believe that there's any kind of history or any background, Like she's aligned with George in that way. I was shocked that they were willing to buy the place with the history that I had that was still fresh history. But that shows how much they weren't necessarily scared by it or buying into like malevolence or anything else like that. Knowing how much of this happens through George and to Kathy, I think having that third character of Father Delaney really helps to sell the experience, to sell what is actually happening within it.

11:29 Yep. Because you've got the two people who are kind of wondering what it is. There's a third person that is pretty convinced he knows what it is, but he can't even get the rest of his clergy to agree to it. Yeah, and that was a really good scene too, there when he was trying to get to convince them. You know, he has a family he's trying to help and just he was just getting ignored by them. You know, he was very passionate in that scene. Yeah, trying to convince him you know, another very powerful scene right there with a father Delaney. For sure, well and genius casting of Murray Hamilton. His father Ryan there too, Yes, right, So as soon as I saw his face, I was like, all right, well here's the member of the clergy that's not gonna buy anything.

12:09 And you know, George will you know or father Delaney will basically say that he's being obtuse and that will be the one thing that he fixates on and doesn't hear anything else. Yeah. Yeah, So did Murray Hamilton come from amity to come to Amityville? Consistency is the thing there, apparently. Sure a good job Murray Hamilton. No, you're right. Anytime he shows up, you know where it's going. And sure enough it does it again. Here a couple of the kids. I want to call out the cast here, Greg Casey, Martel, Jeff and I discussed a movie with him, Whitewater Summer. He also played Greg and e t so funny that he plays two characters with this one.

12:52 I didn't I didn't realize that didn't make that connection. And then the other boy, Mino put loose. I don't know if you guys recognize that name, but he played Jeffrey Jones in the nineteen eighty two eighty three series Voyagers, where he travels through time with Penis Bog. Yes, yeah, there you go. Yep, soon as I saw him, like, hey, I know that kid exactly yep. And then one N one to call out for because this is for our special friend Dayton at Docking Base seventy seven. And that's Val Avery, who plays the sergeant because he also played Chief Hallowell in Cobra, which we know is Dayton's favorite film. He's going to kill me after that, but somewhere he's head.

13:36 That's that's right, that's right. All right. Let's talk about this film, guys. How about that creepy opening shot of the house and you've got that red sky with that's the incredible score. Scarius part of the film. To me, it early is because it's the start of the film. But that that that is very a very effective shot. I mean it's it's a still shot, but ooh, you know the whole thing idea of the house, you know, being haunted, possessed, and it's got eyes. Right. I remember as a kid before I saw the film, like I said, I was obsessed and I would I did a lot of drawing, and I always draw houses. All my houses had eyes on it. And my sister she she wouldn't go anywhere near it because it had eyes.

14:20 But it's creepy. It is so wayne. In your history of haunted house movies, do you remember seeing many before this and do you remember this being a change in how you saw haunted house movies. I think this might have been my first. I can't think of any before that I that I saw. It's just very interesting to think of. Like, you know, obviously I'm going way back with these kind of references, but like the Vincent Price kind of days, when you think about a haunted house and it's covered in cobwebs, it looks like the monsters just moved out. There's probably skeletons and bats and spiders and all these kind of cliche things. But this one, I think it's fascinating that you had that experience, that you were so excited to see the movie because you had been sitting with it.

15:07 You had been wondering what the expectation would be of this movie. And the way that they construct it, beginning with the opening scene takes you into this sense of familiar security, but a sense of impending dread right like you said, Like the windows are shaped like eyes that have you know, these lights that make it look like it's, you know, grimacing at you. And the lullaby kind of score. In the beginning, I remember having a CD with a bunch of horror soundtracks on it that I had listened to in the car, and I wouldn't necessarily know what theme was, changing one from another. And as soon as I heard this one, I thought it was Nightmare and Elm Street with that same kind of you know, lullaby kind of chant. But it's this one. It definitely creeps you out.

15:56 It does, and it sticks with you up till yesterday. For years, I've had this theme in my head that keeps going over and over and now and then i'd actually sing it out loud. I had no idea where it came from until yesterday. Wow, it has stuck in my head. I did not know it was from Amityville Horror, but I remember it clearly until and when those first opening shots with that and with that theme, I knew, oh my god, I've been singing this for years and didn't know that I've been, you know, remembering the Ammitville horror. This movie has been haunting you for a year. It is. That's creepy, man. But when speaking of the creepy kids, Natasha Ryan as Amy m is probably the creepiest kid in this cast, even though she's the imaginary friend.

16:43 But yeah, no figure, yeah oh yeah, especially the whole bedroom scene with the babysitter gets locked in the closet and just banging on the door to get out and our hands are like bloody and just she won't open it, dude, no, thank you. Well it pans over to her and she has this you know, it's like they describe Michael Myers from Your First Sea him in Halloween Things got you know, dead eyes, and she's just kind of looking at the hat at the closet with a little bit of curiosity. It doesn't seem like she's scared. She's just like, oh, this is the game that Jodie wants to play. And you see that babysitter banging on the door with like bloody handprints. Yep, I know, it's it's scary. The one scene that I always remember from this movie is when the kid puts his hand down and the window comes down and starts crushing his fingers. Yea, that is as soon as they think about Amityville horror, that's the first place of my mind goes as that scene, because dude, that is that's rough. The screaming that he's giving and people are trying to get the window up, and George's outside, He's running in to try to help, and just that kid just constantly screaming as you just see you. I've had my hands, my fingers smashing a window, so I know what that feels like. But when you can't get it up and your fingers are still getting crushed, I just can't imagine that. It just no, thank you.

17:58 What I thought was a little curious about that was that Kathy was getting so freaked out of the fact that he didn't have any broken bones, right. I was like, but why is that the scary aspect? Like it should be scarier to say, like, I can't believe we couldn't get that window up. That seemed to slip and fall and then get. Jammed, right, But I don't know. It seemed weird that she was fixed on that doesn't it right? Right? But it seemed for a lot of the film that she seemed to be in denial that there was anything going on wrong at the house in the first place until she saw the eyes, right yeah. Which is pretty deep into the movie, like. It is, yeah, yeah, because that you know, they they kind of set that up with when George are looking at the window and that cat scares the crap out of him, and it scares the crap out of me. Still, you've seen this several times. It still makes me jump.

18:46 And when she you know, she goes in the room to see her daughter and you know, daughter felt much you'd seen Jody, and then she goes over to the window, you're right, and then she sees those eyes at first like is that the cat, but then no, it's not the cat, it's the demon, And yeah, that was scary. Yeah. I think one of the really effective scare tactics in this one is the use of kind of a sinister silence, right yes, specifically, like you're talking about windows. It makes me think of the flies. And when I first started kind of plaguing literally plaguing father father Delaney, there's that drop in sound when he kind of you know, before he starts to hear the get out kind of yelling, before you hear that noise. The audio seems to drop entirely m hm. So I feel like if I'm sitting in the theater or even watching it at home, you know, on HBO, in a in a dark room or whatever, it's gonna make and Dave, you and I have talked about this before, make you want to kind of sit closer in your chair to say, like, should I listen closely because I'm not hearing anything to the sound just go out and then it hits you like a hammer.

19:54 And it's just very very effective throughout the entire movie. It was and when something was going on weird too that maybe you might not heard, you get that that low rumbling too. You know I'm talking about I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, And because I mean and you're right, it goes to that silence and you're like looking around. The characters are like look slowly looking around, like something's going on in the house, and it just, yeah, pushes you on edge. And this is another movie that's a perfect example of building atmosphere. I feel like a lot of movies have lost that today, horror movies, and you get a few here and there that pop up that build that atmosphere, but this movie is very good about that. Yeah, and this film really effectively uses sound. That's one thing I noticed. That's how I noticed the rumbling is all throughout the film. Sound efficts is a very very important part of this film, and it helps, you know, build that atmosphere just like you said.

20:45 Right, yeah, just it makes it really intense, that's for sure. And they obviously make the jumps that they usually do in a horror movie, and they did it so well in this film throughout the entire thing in my opinion, But I. Was very subtle, like having that little again sitting in the chair, innocent enough, but you know that here's some evil, evil stuff going on. Even just the simple things of the rocking chair just slowly, you know, rocking back and forth was creepy in itself. That's always creepy in my opinion. So yeah, absolutely. All right, Well, guys, let's take a little bit of a break and then when we come back we will continue our discussion of the Amityville Horror. All right, everybody, welcome back. Wayne Scott and I will continue our discussion about the Amityville Horror from nineteen seventy nine, which again we all know is Wayne's one of Wayne's favorite horror films of all time.

21:43 As he's already discussed this with us, what do you guys think about the ending of this film? My opinion, it's it's decent enough, but I feel like it's missing something. It doesn't feel like a lot happens. I mean, I know, we get the steps are bleeding, the walls or you're bleeding, and you know, you things that are happening in the house. But do you guys feel like it's still missing something or is it just me? No, it's it's not you. You know, you talked about the scene that was the most memorable in your head, and the one scene I remember from way back then when I first saw it was went bursting through the wall, bursting, you know, in the basement, And for years I was terrified every time I went down into any basement because of that. But you're you're not wrong about the ending.

22:31 It's it's it happens quickly, it happens all at once, and we're left with with you know, none of the characters other than other than the father, really have any anything happened to them other than the fact that you know, they lost their house, and that's unusual for a horror film, you know, So it does feel because of that, in my opinion, that it is lacking. Yeah, Scott, what do you think? Yeah, I mean it quickly kind of goes to that super imposed copy that talks about the fact that they just got out of dodge and didn't come back for their stuff. I feel like maybe we could have benefited from a reaction shot of the kids seeing their dad come back into the car covered in blood, because I feel like the kids were scared well enough, but maybe they didn't quite understand what was happening because there wasn't time Amy was convinced that this is an imaginary friend.

23:35 The boys were just feeling like there was maybe some weird stuff going on. Maybe Dad's caved under the pressure, But I don't know that they really understood what was happening. So maybe if that had been some kind of a shot that was inserted and see what kind of ongoing damage was happening to this family as a result. You're right too, Yeah, I felt the same way. Yeah, That's what I was kind of wondering about afterwards, was you know, when he comes back to the band covered in blood, I would say, all right, well, we're stopping someplace as soon as possible for you to hose off because I want none of this with me, right right, right? And does it follow? Yeah, that's what I'd be wondering about.

24:16 I think my biggest problem is I'm spoiled by Poultergeist, because let's let's admit it, they both both these films have a very similar ending. Okay, I'm glad you brought that out. Yeah. Yeah, and Poltergeist did it much better in my opinion on them. Everything's happening in the house. They're struggling to get out of that house, and you know they're doing you know, they're helping each other, and then they finally get out of there. You get the reactions from the family and they just bust hail out of there. I feel that's missing from the Amityville Horror. And I don't want to put this movie down because I love this movie and I think it's a classic from nineteen seventy nine. But I think I'm just boiled by Pultrogeist. Yeah, and you know, I'm it's funny you mentioned that because I was just going to mention Poldergeist too, because, like you said, Scott, it feels like something's missing at the end, and it feels like it's missing an epilogue.

25:05 And if you remember Polar guys had that epilogue at the end with the uh that the hotel. When the TV that it's missing that final scene, it's like it cuts too abruptly. Yeah, yeah, I feel. No. I was just gonna say, if this was if this was made after Poultry Ice, I feel like it probably would have had And it doesn't have to be like reverse photography or any kind of special effects or anything else. But I wonder if it would have been interesting to see the house patch itself up, yeah, and say like there's no you know, the stonework is back the way it was, the the stairs are back the way it was, and the house is just ready to devour another family right in this again?

25:52 Is that what happened in the sequels? Of course I didn't see any of the sequels, but why not once was enough? He has a VHS copy of this in his freezer, and that's where it shall stay. That's where it shall stay. Yeah, very similar that that not of how family takes it. So yeah, all right, guys, Well let's move on and look to the lens. Any interesting behind the scenes that you guys might have found Scott. There are a couple of interesting ones. I feel bad for a cinematographer, Fred J. Conan Camp, who apparently had a very hard time filling the scenes with the flies because of a deep seated fear of insects. So whenever he had to do one of those close up facial shots of a fly right at the camera, he had to either look away or close his eyes and hope for the best.

26:43 It's hard to do as a cinematographer. Yes, it is. Apparently he also lost about thirty pounds because he refused to eat because the flies were making him lose his appetite. Oh my gosh. Now even that makes like I hadn't been thinking about the flies all that much, other than you know, there's got to be like a fly wrangler that they have to hire to get that many. To do those things, someone has to collect them exactly and then get them ready for the next shot. But apparently these things were very bothersome Rod Steiger. I never saw a straight answer about whether he was covered in honey or.

27:25 I think they rubbed. Yeah, But oh my god, can you imagine having to not only shoot but reshoot any kind of takes where you've got all these flies all over you, like. No, it'd be like spiders with Wayne, right, Oh, don't. Scare them off the podcast, David, So you got to keep. Going, Yeah, we ain't gonna talk about spiders. No, no, but no, Yeah, that's that's quite interesting. And you know, let me also say that you're on that subject. You know, he is a really really good cinematographer. And and you know, while I have new adult opinions of this film, one thing I have to say is it is beautifully shot. I mean, the guy you know did he did Paton and he did a towering inferno, and you can see that that expertise in this film.

28:19 Every shot is just beautiful. Yeah, I would completely agree with that. Did you guys catch I think it's about twenty minutes into the film when Margaret hit hers washing the dishes that she's humming the love theme from Superman. Oh no, I didn't catch that. I didn't catch it. I saw that bacdoid, but I didn't want to go back and watch this movie. For it right way too much. I can't believe I missed that. Wow. Yeah, I think that's pretty coold that she did that. Yeah, and they let her do it. So interesting. I'd like to talk about Stuart Rosenberg, the director. You know he I think he did a good job on this film. I don't think it's his best work, but he did a pretty pretty decent job. I'm more familiar with him of one of his TV work rather than his films, but because he directed a few episodes of The Twilight Zone, which is a show I absolutely love.

29:15 But there're one specific episode that he directed was called I Shot an Arrow into the Air, which is about a group of astronauts that crash on an asteroid and because they're very lonely and they you know, no hope, they start fighting against each other and killing one another, and then one of them realizes that they are actually in the desert just outside of Reno. I love that episode. It's very early episode, and he directed it and just did an incredible job. But I got to give him marks for this, I just you know he did. He did a good job with a script that I'm going to honestly say wasn't the best script that. Wouldn't have been written for this I would agree with you online for sure.

29:56 Well, I think I think he does an amazing job again with atmosphere. Nothing like you were saying before, like yep, knowing you know Rod Steiger, I think bought into this quite a bit. Yeah, seemed to shake him. Josh Berlin apparently when he read the novel was reading at two am. And this seems fairly innocuous. So when I heard it, I was like, oh, really, that's the thing that scared you. But he had pants hanging up in his room and he got to kind of an intense part of the book and the pants dropped off of the hangar, and it scared him enough to say, like, all right, this is making me tense enough that I think this is going to be a good movie. And this is exactly what it does. Like it gets you into these scenes where, especially with Josh Berlin's character, where you see him go through things like a lost batch of money while he's having the flu, getting frustrated at some everyday occurrences, and you know, it feels like is this just a kind of a dad that's overloaded and reaching a breaking point or is he truly being possessed or haunted by something?

31:07 And it takes you through so many moments that seem like if there wasn't that creepy soundtrack behind it, it'd be like, all right, he's upset because he lost a lot of money. He's not. You know, there's nothing inherently scary about a lot of that, and it gets you so deeply ingrained into that kind of idea before anything truly supernatural seems to be starting to happen to George. I think that that gets a lot of that relatable nature to it, that authenticity that draws people in to say like, well, damn, Like if this is pushing him that far to the edge, it's not some kind of demon that's going to get you. It's not Michael Myers jumping out of the shadows. It's somebody you know and love and trust that does this horrible thing. So it's very easy to see why this became so impactful for a lot of people.

32:06 I agree. I've been always curious about this, this book that it's based on too. I would love to read it if I had the courage to do it, just you know, wonder what the difference is between the two. I mean, I've I've seen the documentaries on on the film, and I've seen and read about the the original, the True life murders and stuff. But you know the book. We had the book in our house. Mom had it and kept it in her bedroom, and for nearly two years, I wouldn't go in the bedroom. She knocked she knocked it back behind the bed one time I was laying on the floor. I couldn't. She wanted me to crawl out and get it for and I wouldn't do it.

32:46 So I stayed there for quite a few years. But it was Yeah, it was a good way of getting me to stay out of her bedroom. But I would like to know the differences between the book, you know, what had been changed for the film, and because you know, there there's a lot of controversy with that book. I know, I know from what I've read, there is you know, it is curious. I'm curious about it. Yeah, I would be interesting to read that for sure. What was specific? There were some specific scenes that shook you up. When uh as a kid, the the whole breaking through. The wall into the you know, the the red room. Yeah, the Red room, and you know, the passage to Hell, the you know that that really really is the thing that scared me the most. And the idea that you know, this is based on true events, very fatally, very but I think you know, as a young, impressionable kid, that really freaked me out the fact that that you know, things this could this kind of happened in real life, and I think that's what bothered me more than anything specific.

33:49 And as an adult, I have a completely different opinion. No, okay, we'll talk about that here in a little bit. But I know one thing that really creeping me out, and I'm sure both of you will agree with me. So let's score the film music by Leilo Chiffron, Wayne, What did you think about this score? Oh, it's completely effective. Of the entire film, This is probably the creepiest bit of it, especially that that opening theme. Like I said that before, it stuck in my head. You know, Schiffrin is a great composer. He's best known for writing the theme and scores for Mission Impossible, but he did a lot of films, you know, Dirty Harry, Rush Hour, and he did one a CD that I have, and I love of his score THHX one one three Ah, George Lucas's first film. He scored that and if you didn't know that, he also scored the paramount logo he used during the eighties and the nineties. It was rarely ever used in theaters, but it was at the beginning of every videotape that we ever bought from Paramount, all the Star Trek films and everything. That's what we heard, you know, it's you know ingrained in our eighties memories.

35:04 That all comes back to Star Trek. It. Yeah, it does. But it's it's an incredible score. Now my opinions now today, you know, are listening to it when I watched the film, and then listening to it separate. It works better separately. It's an incredible score. I don't think it's quite effective as part of the film. Uh, I'm not talking about the theme. The main theme is perfect, but I feel that, like a lot of parts of this film, the theme or suit me, the music, the incidentals were a little overblown at times. I'm not I'm not sure it was the right choice for this type of film.

35:47 Interesting, I've never listened to the score just by itself, and I would be I would like to do that, to be honest with you. It's a great listen. So I'll have to have to do that. I mean, there are a lot of scenes where I thought so thinking back to the the two fathers in the car when they were swerving all over the road, Like, if there is no music behind that, it would just be there's a shot of a fly and a shot of two people losing control of their car. But it always had that kind of sinister undertone. So I feel like the score kind of took a place as a character in the movie to help add some atmosphere and kind of clue the audience into you know, there's sinister things happening behind this. It might seem like an everyday thing, it might seem innocent enough, but there's actually something else going on.

36:39 Right. Apparently, when he started his composition of the main theme, he was given just the static image of that home, and that's what he started working from. And you can really see that because once you see that static shot of the home, when you start getting the opening credits, that music is just incredible. Yeah, it's one of his best themes. I it's a really good and really scary theme. Yeah, perfect for the film. Absolutely it was. And I don't know of anyone else who could have done a better job. At the time. I mean, there was a lot of composers who were doing really good work, but I think it was a good choice. But Lailo has had worked with the director before and a few occasions I believe. I think they worked together on a cool hand. Luke for one, Yeah, that they had done. So, yeah, he had done a ton of stuff. I was looking at his IMDb and you're right. He did a lot of television. Oh yeah, he did like Chips and Sanford and Son and Stars, Skiing, Hutters, a lot of stuff. Even did the original Planet of the Apes, which I did not know.

37:36 Yes, that's right, I forgot about that. That's out on CD two. Yeah, So definitely you got a great composer who worked on this film. And it's surprising that you know, this score has only been released twice in its history since the release of the film. It had an original release in seventy nine, an LP and an eight track tape, but it had very little music on it, only about twenty and it's of his score, and then it had a lot of the source cues and the disco versions and stuff like that. So it wasn't until twenty fifteen that Quartec Records finally released a two CD set of this and that's what I listened to. The two CD. You know it was well, they thought the tapes were lost for so many years and nobody could find them anywhere, and they managed to find most of it. They yes, so you know the two discs contains well, the first disc contains the entire score but in mono, and just two contains about seventy percent of the score that they were able to find in stereo, plus all the source tracks. It's like I said, it's a great listen to in my opinion, separate from the film. It's worth seeking out. It's still available.

38:45 Well, they always do a fantastic job with that stuff. Yes, it would it be a good Halloween soundtrack for Halloween. Night, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're always kind of looking for like some kind of music to be playing while the kids are, you know, toning up and getting the candy and all this other kind of stuff. It seems like this would probably creep the kids the hell out. Use use that theme, and if anybody picks it out, then they are definitely a movie buff. I don't think a lot of people would pick that out. I don't no way. Yeah, all right, well let's move on to quote this. Uh, Scott, did you find any interesting quotes.

39:28 Yeah, there was kind of a an interesting a little bit more of a story that kind of peppered with quotes. But apparently Brolin and Kinder were both skeptical of the claims that were going on here. She said, I didn't really buy that this had really happened. They were asked to, you know, go on press junkets and you know, the usual tour, and asked if they believed in it. She's we'll never tell. It wasn't until two thousand and five that she says, the producers told us we should all say these terrible things happened on the set, but it was all bs, nothing happened, but it was funny. I was kind of disappointed to hear her perspective on that, because I don't know, I mean, you hear something that like this, you expect, like Wayne's reactions, somebody be kind of shook up afterwards. Apparently she wasn't buying it.

40:26 No, she's just not a fan of this film. So no, which is a shame. It really is for me. Is Charles Champlain, who is worked for the Los Angeles Times. He's one of the critics who gave a favorable review to it. He says, what it does scarily well is make a very attractive three story colonial, which would go for three hundred thousand easily if only had different case history. The villain of the piece, the horror is all the more effective because it arises not in some Cobwebby and Baddeley castle. We're on an unlifted planet in an unnumbered millennium, but order, but around the corner and up our street, which, if you think about that, that really does make it scary because it could be any anyhouse on your street too, that something like this could happen. Yeah, so pretty creepy. Way, did you find anything? Oh?

41:21 My favorite quote actually comes from the film itself. You know. It's when the the babysitter is putting the little girl Amy to bed because they thought she was sick, and she goes, I'm not sick. I just didn't want meat loaf. I can relate. Yeah, yeah, I though, So what if you do? I do? Now? All right, well, let's let's take one more break. We come back, we will do a couple of what ifs and rewinds and we'll wrap it up. All right, everybody, welcome back in joining us with our conversation about the Amityville Whore with Wayne and Scott. So what ifs very interesting things I found. Again, I'm not surprised by this one.

42:08 It seems like everybody wanted Harrison Ford in the late seventies because of what he had been doing with Star Wars and just you know, but he was just too busy and wasn't able to do this. I could see him as George left, but I don't think he could pull off the the sick that look like he's getting possessed kind of look that Brolin pulled off. Would you guys agree with that? Yeah? I agree. I think you know, love Harrison Ford and a lot of his work. I don't think it would have had the same impact because I think James Berlin did such a great job of kind of setting up that idea of this loving father who seems to take a lot of stuff in stride. He doesn't get shook very easily, right, and then as it goes on further and further, he gets to seem terrified and even more outside of his own head. I think we would have probably gotten frustrated from Harrison Ford, but I don't know if the terrified reaction would have been quite the same you.

43:11 Got the pointy finger at market. Yeah, sure you patch up that wall. Yeah, I could see him doing the part. I just don't think he'd it would have come across as well as James Browlan. Yeah, I agree. There's another one that I had heard about, another George Letts that I'm glad we didn't see Christopher Reeve. Oh, because I don't know if i'd want my Superman in that situation, not with Lois him Lowis. That wouldn't have worked. That would have been a good idea. You've been seeing Superman and Lowess all over again in just a very weird place. No way. Well, I mean you terrified seven year old Wayne from seeing Superman two and you'd miss out on it.

43:56 This is true. Yeah, And if some year old Wayne was terrified or not, he didn't need that too. So yeah, I definitely not know, not at all. No, there was like I think Burt Reynolds and James con too were somewhere in there that could do George Letson Nah, No things great, great great actors, don't get me wrong, But after George Lutts, no way. I feel like Burt Reynolds would have been misplaced. Charisma yea, at the time, you know, smoking the Bandit kind of Burt Reynolds and James Cohn strikes me as the kind of not necessarily because of who he is, but the roles he had played to date, that seems like it would be more believable to see him more quickly go to his breaking point than James Brolin would have been.

44:43 Yeah, I agree, I agree. Do you put anything Wing was anyway. Just such when it was first conceived, when when they first purchased the rights to do it, that it was originally intended as a TV movie. And I can see this because as I was watching it, it does have that feel of the TV movies at the time, which you know, at the time, Network Television was big into TV movies and they spent pretty decent money on them because they were big ratings getters, and so I could easily see this. I don't even think they would have had to tone it down. Maybe a little bit, you know, but very little. I mean, honestly, other than the language, I didn't see anything that could have, you know, been a problem with the sensors. But it would have been an interesting and and an interesting take as a TV Yeah, I think so.

45:36 That probably would have garnered a lot of phone calls to the studio from parents upset, Like I didn't think it was going to be that scary, but then they fell a pit of blood at the end. The dog looked like it was. Ready to eat him to my kids, Yeah, you definitely would have had that complaints for sure. Yeah, all right, let's move on to the rewind Wayne likes dislikes. I know you said your opinions changed, but what we got, well. You know, I was terrified as a kid, but now as an adult watching this. You know, of course, now when I watch any film, I tear it apart, you know, looking at the way the directors or the actors or anything like this. But I laughed all the way through this film.

46:16 Oh all right, I did. I found this film absolutely hilarious because it's it's absurd, it's it's it's kind of ridiculous. I just I'm as a as a horror film. And okay, first of all, let me mention you know, and I know you both know this, but I'm not a huge horror movie fan. I do like horror movies. I like them as movies, but I don't they don't really frighten me or are I'm not just just not into it like like a lap especially like like you, David. But I do enjoy watching them, and I enjoyed watching this, but it did not at all at this time. Other than my past memories, the film did not frighten me. And it just it made me laugh because I just it just to me right now, it just wasn't that great of a film.

47:09 I'm gonna say it right now. The actors were fantastic, the director is fantastic. The film looks good, but the script could have used quite a few passes. It for a horror film, it's kind of cliche. You know, the whole blood draining down the walls, and you know, the scary dog, the rocking chair, the you know, the kid thinking, the imaginary friend, and I just I don't know. I I saw nothing original in it that, you know, I found to be spectacular, and it just seems like an ordinary and cheesy horror, haunted house horror movie. That's I mean, that's why. That's my adult opinion. But now I still have those fears from as a kid, you know, watching this, but you know, looking at it with new eyes, it's it.

48:04 I just wasn't that impressed with the film? All right, fair enough change? So I get it, they do, ye. Do you kind of feel like, why was I scared of it in the first place. I'm wondering that, you know, I have a weird memory, and I don't understand where this came from. But I and this just made me more even more disappointed in the end, And I swear that when he falls down into the black pit, you know whatever, that stuff was tar, and just before he gets out of there, he looks back and sees the face of the devil. I don't know where that came from, but I swear that was in the film until I saw it and it's not. And I'm like, oh, well, where's it at? You know?

48:46 So you know, memory cheats, memory chants. That's a big one. But I hate you know, I'm not trashing the film. Don't don't get me wrong. I'm not trashing the film. It's still it's still an enjoyable film. I enjoyed the heck out of it. I laughed the whole thing I thought it was. There was quite a few hilarious moments in it, and I think a lot of my laughter came from the fact is Oh my gosh, you know I was scared of that when I was a kid. Oh that's so funny that I was scared of that. I think that's where that came from. Scott, What about you. I think it's interesting to think about, you know, the things that we accept as tropes now that really kind of started with it. So when you look at it with limited effects and you know, not a lot of basis to say, let's do that and improve on it, that's totally fair. I think there there are sometimes I'll admit, you know, I watched this on Max, and my subscription has commercials that I don't always pop up at the greatest times, But there were times when it would come back from commercial and it's in a completely different scene and I'm like, wait a second, do I need to rewind?

49:49 Did the commercial just play over the rest of that scene? Because it did seem like there were some kind of abrupt edits in there. There were some places where it seemed like a flash of an image was oddly placed, And when I think I remember one of those instances where I saw, you know, some kind of floating face in there, not just the odd kind of. Face when they first break through and he sees himself for he Yeah, he sees himself, and I think that's where that memory of mind was coming from. Yeah, there's another image in there, I remember, and. Then we're making this up. This is like, this is like a shopping mall. Wains always told me exist. That doesn't exist. It does, but it's a different story. Listeners, I don't want to confuse you.

50:36 But I mean, you know, in a similar fashion, it wasn't something that you know, there were certain things that were creeping me out, but it didn't necessarily scare me as much as some of the similar movies had done. You know, obviously you mentioned Poltergeist that had a lot more put into it and retched this up you know, times ten, right, But I think there were a lot of effective scenes in this, and I can see why it would have scared you when you were younger. One of the things that really surprised me was the use of the family dog. I think it was very smart to have the dog kind of digging at the basement wall. And you know, growing up in that period, you have a lot of kids that are scared of the basement because it's molded, because there's spiderwebs, because of whatever, and then to have the dog trying to tell you there's something wrong with it that's gonna ratchet it up. But after he's he seems to be attacking George and also trying to save George from the pit. And I don't know if that was just my read on it, but it seemed like at first he was like, what the hell is this, you know, blood covered, demony thing coming up out of that pit, and he started like growling and biting, and then he was like, yeah, good, yeah, dragged me out of the pit. And I was like, are you sure that that's what the dog is trying to do? He's trying to bite your nuts off?

51:58 But yeah, yeah. And I think the standout performance to me was James Brolin. He definitely sells that idea that it's a dad on the edge, to say the least. Another kind of interesting flash of a moment was when he had the axe in his hand and he was bearing down on Kathy about to apparently swinging on her. It seems like they were adding some prosthesis or something to Mario Kidder. Something didn't yes. I was like, I wasn't quite sure why they had done that, and I almost kind of hes hes date to say that, because she's like, no, there weren't any prosthesis, jerk.

52:47 I was just no idea. But I wonder if they were trying to do something where she was meaning to seem like somebody entirely other than his wife. Yeah, kind of spooky like thing he was reacting to. But yeah, those are kind of the keep mos free. So, I mean, I've already talked about the father dealiney stuff. That's my favorite of the whole movie. One. There's a couple of things here that I don't like, which I don't usually talk about those for a lot of these movies. I still consider it's the classic from the seventies. I still like this movie, So my opinion's kind of changed. Like Wayne has about this movie. One of the things I always talk about that I dislike, and Scott you've heard me say this numerous times. I hate freeze frame shots. I hate them, and this movie has them. When they're going up the steps, the realtor are showing them around, they're reaching to the attic, and then they freeze frame. You're like, uh, what's going on?

53:40 And then obviously you know you're seeing the murders and stuff like that. I hated that shot. I hate those kind of shots, and it just it felt awkward there. It really did. I understand what they were trying to do as they're moving around the house. You're seeing the murders happening as they're moving around the house, but that one just felt very disjointed and it didn't work for me at all. The other thing that I don't like now that I've seen it and I haven't seen it in years, it just felt like there's a lot of stuff missing. Like I talked about that ending, it felt like there's just more should have happened in this house, creepier things or you know, something should have happened. I'm not saying kill the kids, but something more should have happened, something more should have happened with Jody to really bring out the terror of this house. And when I saw this years ago, I loved it. I still do like it.

54:38 Don't get me wrong, I'm like you, Wayne, I still consider it's a good film, and I just feel that it's missing pieces to make this a true haunted house that has a lot going on within it and instead of what we got in this film. Does that make sense, Yes, it does to me. I feel the same way with throughout the film. It's it's vague and its horror aspects more. It relies more on what you have in your head and once you think about them than what you actually see on screen. It's missing a lot, and. I don't mind being thinking about things sometimes that makes it creepier. But it didn't work in this film. It just didn't and I thought that was missing. Again. I still like this, so please, listeners, don't come at me.

55:26 I still like this movie, do not get me wrong. I just felt like it was missing those pieces. Well, what's interesting is that it's had so many like this almost started at I don't know if it's quite a series, because it seems like there was a sequel and then there were a couple of remakes, and there's definitely a lot of movies that draw an influence from this. Yeah, but it seems like it was almost there. People keep trying to recapture it, and they almost get there. Sometimes it's a fantastic results, sometimes not so much. But I think it's very easy to fall into that trap where not a lot happens, because it's trying to make you question, is it really happening. Is it the mental instability of the father that's really going on here? Yeah? I feel like something I would have liked to have seen a little bit more was kind of the descent of father Delaney.

56:20 Oh yeah, because after he went in mind and then he was not speaking sitting there on the bench, maybe there could have been at least one more scene where it seems like maybe he's then losing his power of speech. Great almost to say whatever it is that is terrorizing him, is trying to stop him because it sees him as a threat. Yeah, that would be a really good addition to the film for sure. But yeah, I mean you' already talking about the impact, so let's let's talk about it. It did give us some more sequels, which I really didn't look in to see how successful they were. I know they've done quite a few of them, some of them later on went direct video, so obviously were very low budget sequels, and.

57:02 Later two dozen of them. Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot. But I mean, let's think about the impact of the house itself. Almost everybody knows this house right, very few out there would not know who what the Amityville Horror or the Amityville House is, you know, so, I mean it's got that impact in itself. I don't know if either one of you saw the remake in two thousand and five with Ryan Reynolds and Melissa George. No, no, another thing you didn't. It was. It was pretty decent. I still like the original better. It felt like they're a little bit more happened this time around, like I was complaining about the original didn't have. But it was still a decent film. And you know, during this time period, you're getting a lot of horror films that are really starting to come out. You know, we had Halloween in seventy eight. You're getting ready to get Fright of the Thirteenth, you know, it comes out in nineteen eighty. It's being made actually right now when this one came out. You know, so we're getting into those horror movies that are starting to have that huge impact on the film industry. And this did too.

57:58 You wouldn't have got these sequels if it. And it was successful because it made over eighty million dollars. Come on, that's a lot of money in nineteen seventy nine. So it was obviously very successful, and I can see why the critics were mixed, because you listen to us talking right now, we're kind of mixed with reviews on our reactions now that we've grown up and gotten mature. So I get those, I really do. But I still feel this movie had a huge impact on the film industry. It did. It did. The seventies was a great time for horror films. I mean it all started I think, I would say probably with The Exorcists, and you know, accumulating up to this film and Friday the Thirteenth and really the horror films we get today all you know, can be traced back to the origins right there at these films, So it's its impact is huge. There's no something that.

58:45 Absolutely well, especially thinking about like you know, The Exorcist is a great movie, kind of in a similar plane with this one, because the the evil that has kind of the the roots in kind of intermissed with Christian belief things like paranormal activity and related movies or Annabel like we were talking about before, having something that's kind of the predecessor to those right before we were getting into the satanic panic of the time. I'm sure was a big driver of why this was so successful at the time and why so many people have been trying to kind of recreate that formula. I think in a similar way where Halloween kind of kicked off the slasher genre, this one helped to kind of set the structure of, not the tone for these kind of movies, to say, we're going to take you into a place where you feel like it's familiar and it's secure, and completely turn that on its head. Then you're not just caring about the protagonist. You're trying to figure out how can they get not only through this, but how can they get back to where they were? How can they get back to normal?

59:57 Yeah? And both the Geist I'm sure was king birth out of this kind of film. Oh yeah, and we all we all know on this podcast that we all love Poltergeist. It's my favorite, yes, fantastic film, So you know we got this to think for that too. So yeah, all right, where'd you guys watch this up? I saw it on Max, which is hard to say, HBO, me too. Yeah, I saw it on Max, Wayne, wayn where'd you catch it at? I got it off? I had to rent it off of Amazon Prime. Okay, got mine. Medi don't own a physical copy. I'm kidding. No, it's not in your freezer anyway. Oh what a shame. All right, well, listeners, thank you so much for joining us. Wayne, thank you so much for coming over from phasers at That's Down to join us on a film of forty five.

1:00:42 It's been an honor having you guys frightened the heck out of me again and Nick to laugh. Good good. I'm glad you can laugh about it now. It's still gonna be a great memory for you. I'm sure thinking about the Amityville horror so but no, thanks again for joining us. We really do appreciate that. So if you want to reach us, you can find us at a film by podcast dot com. Write to us at a film by Podcast dot gmail dot com. You can also find us at a film by podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and all other social medias. Until our film reill start rolling again, go out, watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you will discover next.