Ron Shelton - Cobb

0:00 Brad. It is springtime at last, which can only mean one thing. Baseball is back. That's right, baseball and baseball movies. Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, our Cincinnati Reds can only get better this season, I think, hope. Sorry, well, let's keep the discussion on baseball. Let's talk about a film by Ron Shelton, his nineteen ninety four underrated biopic Cobb.

1:00 Hello everybody, and welcome back to a FUMBI podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson. I am Brad Kozo. Brad, you mentioned now is the time to start watching baseball movies. Yeah. And if you're gonna watch baseball movies, I mean the man responsible for the best baseball movies you know, you could say, or best sports movies in general. What about you think? Yeah? And I gotta I gotta, I gotta say before we get into this one, we got to talk about the Patreon for second. Let's let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do a seventh inning stretch for the Patreon, because this episode is uh, this is happening because of our very first patron, and that is none other than Jason Colvin. Dear friend. He's been on the show before. From the surely you Can't Be Serious podcast where he co hosts with our other good friend d Graves. You know, Jason said, I would love to hear what you guys do for Cobb. You know, he loves loves Ron Shelton movies. We love Ron Shelton movies, and he put Cobb on the radar. Correct. Yeah, A good interesting watch for us, Yeah, definitely. Well, Jason, I know you're listening, so I hope you enjoy your episode that we are dedicating to you that you have made possible. Brad. For those that have not seen Cobb, let us know what it's all about. Okay, quick synopsis. Four

2:30 thousand, one ninety one is the number of base hits that the legendary Tie Cobb carried as the self proclaiming greatest baseball player ever. Cobb, feeling that the sports legend is nearing the end of his life, decides to write his memoirs and hire sports writer Al Stump to write the biography. Stump, thinking this could be the best opportunity ever, realizes there's a darker side to Cobb he may regret. Ever, knowing, I would say, that's a that's very, very very telling of what this movie is. I'll just say this, you know, first time, my first time seeing Cob too. I don't know about you. You'res two. Okay, So I'm expecting a baseball movie, and I really don't feel like this is a baseball movie. I feel like this is more of like a road movie between two guys. Yes, but the language is very baseball. I do feel that you do need to know some kind of baseball background to understand the language, especially when you know there's certain kind of shots towards someone's playing ability or you know, things like that. So it does help. So, I mean, I still see it as a baseball film. Yeah, I mean I see it as a baseball film. Definitely. The opening, you get that like that nineteen forties propaganda style film, you know, with the guy with the very upbeat voice, and here's Tie Cobb, you know, and telling his stats and kind of kind of build it up, you know. Yeah, great for shattering moment. Is it's a little boring, and it's meant to be boring

4:04 because I watch at the beginning of this movie and I'm like, this is very cliche and boring, this kind of this. You get this quick synopsis of the life of Ty Cobb as a baseball player, and I'm like, it's kind of lame, but then it fits in later into the film. It's supposed to be that way. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. I love the beginning to the fast talking writers debate in the bar where we're introduced to Al Stump played by Robert Wall, you know, and they're all the best fighter, the best singer, the best king. Everyone has their own opinion that they're fighting back and forth with until we get the best ball player, and then it's pretty much unanimous like that. Everyone says it's Thy Cobb, you know. Movie opens in nineteen sixty Santa Barbara and Wow, Tommy Lee Jones as Ty Cobb. Let's let's let's let's talk about him for a minute.

5:00 Um. I feel like I've seen a lot of Tommy Lee Jones lately. He's in so many good films, And I recently watched the film of his because I'm reading this Quentin Tarantino book and one of his favorite movies this movie, Rolling Thunder, and Tommy Lee Jones is very young in the film, but plays a very disturbed soldier. He has had it since the beginning. He just his line delivery just doesn't seem rehearsed. It doesn't seem push. It just feels like he's personality all the way he takes it. He takes it to eleven in this performance. I mean, it's an incredible performance. I'll be honest with you, just because I've seen this for the first time recently, his portrayal of Cobb, I'm seeing I'm seeing hints of his role in Natural Born Killers, as you know, I'm I'm definitely seeing hints of his performance of Two Face and Batman Forever, and he's when those films around the same time. Yeah, when Tommy Lee, when Tommy Lee goes off the rails, he is and he's incredible. He's in he's he plays, he plays I would say crazy, but you know, like you get what I'm saying. He plays that that elevation well, I feel like and in Cobb Man does he does he go all out? How about how about Robert wall playing Al Stump who was in to write the biography is Robert wall

6:31 Is he just meant to play like reporters. It's a good role for him, you know, he does really well with it. And Batman, um, he plays a good assistant coach already working with Shelton before in um Bull Durham obviously, but you know he does it well. You know, I know he did really well with the show I think was called, uh, I can't remember the name of it, Tommy Artless Arless. Yeah, that did really wear well. And I believe that catered to his kind of comedy and and Forte as a writer type of Yeah, but I thought he was well for it this character, like he's meant for this character. I feel like he plays he plays this type well. Another great performance in this is Lolita Davidovich Ramona, who they meet in a in a reno. I mean again, I know she's she's she's known for playing like the bubbly show girl, but she gets a she gets an opportunity to play play that, but but take it a little bit deeper, a little bit, a little bit darker in this movie. I feel like, well, she's Shelton's wife.

7:36 You know, that definitely helps. And um I always thought that she was going to have a bigger career. I don't know if that was uh self choice or anything, but I always thought she was really great. I am, but she started to make a name for herself. I remember that movie intersection coming out with her Sharon Stone and um Richard Gear and I always expected her because she's adorable, fantastic. Yeah, she's in a lot of Shelton stuff, but um, you know she plays uh kur Russell's Rife and dark Blue. We'll talk about it later, Yeah, well we'll definitely. I mean, she's when you think about it, she's in I think she's in five of the nine feature films that that Shelton does. Yeah, so we're obviously gonna be talking about her. I did see her, and I won't tell her. She's great in Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I don't want to say what she does in Kurby. Okay, yeah, let's but her.

8:33 I always liked her, Yeah I do too. Moving on, this is another guy I really like. I especially liked him in ten Cup. But I'm talking about Lou Myers, who has a small role in this movie playing Willie, who we get the idea we meet him like, you know, uck uh Stump's first meeting with Cobb is amid Willie quitting you know on Cob, Like they don't really specially by what his what his job was. But wow, I mean gunfire and some very colorful language, you know. Yeah, they don't hold back on this on this movie as far as language and behavior at all. Yeah, But I love I love lu Myers in this movie because you you know, when he quits it at the be end of the film, when he when he when he's quitting, you just saim, Okay, well's the last we're gonna see of him. Exactly. I thought the same thing. But we get one more scene with him, and it's one of my it's one of the funniest scenes. I think, one of the better scenes. And and I say that, and I should preface it by saying, Brad, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta just right from the gate, right out of the gate, we gotta say. The depiction of Cobb in this film, he is he is a narcissistic, violent, racist, deplorable person. Right, oh yeah, yeah. Um.

9:54 And even though it's a it's very dark, it's a very film. I feel like there are there are there's one moment of levity, especially with Lou Myers and his role when they're in the car and you know the scene I'm talking about, Yeah, and he basically explains to you know, Robert Woll's character Al what he should do, whether you should stay with this job, you know, of writing this man's biography or not. He just does him. The best advice he can give him is to leave this sorry, old, decrepid racist son of a motherfucker, you know, just god. And it is the best line of the movie. I'll tell you what, one of the one of his other great lines. Before he gets out of the car, he's got the gun on Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah. Now Tommy Lee can't really you know, now he can he can kind of speak his mind and and it's such It's one of my favorite scenes because Robert Wohl is kind of egging it on, like who was the best at this? And he knows because he knows know Lou Myers is not gonna say Ty Cobb and I love I love their debate, like when he when he talks about when Willie says, uh cool, Papa Bell and Ty you know, Tommy Lee Jones is like, are you you know he's he's so upset, And Willie has that line about man, he is so fast he hit a line drive up the middle and hit himself in the head slide. That's a great line, man, That's the baseball linguo. You need to get that joke.

11:28 You do, you do? You absolutely do not. We need to play the best game. I like that game. It keeps going off in the different things. We need to play the best game. I like it. I would listen the senior talking about with the sports writers at the beginning. Yeah, yeah, the the way they and again it's so rapid fire, how one person says a certain word or a certain person's name and then that leads to like, okay, like I said, they go from like fighters to singers to you know that that at least Elvis Presley, he's the king, well best king, and there they're like, yeah, you know, yeah, we need to play this game. James, he had a Bible written after him, you know, like, oh, it's a fantastic scene. Definitely a fantastic scene. I want to talk a little bit about some some cameos. I don't know there was two. There's two cameos. I caught one, uh no pun intended. But the other one I was surprised to see, now you know I'm talking about. I caught Roger Clements.

12:26 You can't you cannot mistake the Yeah, he's he's in a lot um and I can't remember if I saw another one I missed. I must have missed it. Okay, So I'll blow your mind here for a second, because, uh, the scene that we're talking about actually has both of them in. So we only get one baseball scene in this in the in the entire man, Brad, we get one baseball scene. And it's a great scene because Cobb is like kind of making a bet, like, hey, I'm gonna steal second and third and home, you know, and they're like, no, there ain't no way. He's he's going up against Roger Clemmens, you know, who obviously is playing a historical pitcher. But when the fan, remember the fan that heckles him, and uh, Tommy Lee Jones like dives into the audience and then he feels then he realizes he just assaulted a disabled guy. You know, yeah, can't he punches the guy. The guy can't punch him back because he doesn't have an arm. Yeah that's right, and he felt bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was surprised to see that guy was Jimmy Buffett, parrot Head, the parrot head himself, all right, yes, Uh so apparently they needed to fill the stands, so Jimmy Buffett. I don't know how he gets involved, but Jimmy Buffett puts on a free concert to pack the audience, and that's how you get That's how you get the you know, this isn't a CGI crowd.

13:48 Yeah, this is you get all the crowd in because it's like, hey, we're gonna shoot some some baseball scenes and then Jimmy Buffet will play for you. So how about that? I thought that was that? That was wild? Right? I love that again. This film it's dark, yeah right, I don't I don't know how did you? It teeters on almost like Paul Schrader dark darkness a little bit. You know, it's, um, don't get too comfortable when something, um, I want to say heartwarming happens, because it does. There's some heartwarming moments. Yeah, but actually, don't get too comfortable. But it's also a movie, you know, so there's a lot of dramatic license taken. But um, it was.

14:37 It was a dark watch. But it was also interesting because, like you, I am interested in baseball, and you know, it is interesting to hear stories of our baseball heroes and stuff. So I still found it interesting. Well, here's something I found interesting because I'm watching it, and the more I watched the film, the more I not only despised Cobb, but I start to start to lose respect, all respect for him because of the you know, because we're told, you know, this is this is a biography. You know, it's based off the book Cobb, a biography by Al Stump, Right, so you know, and you know, and and Al Stump he co writes this with Ron Shelton, So you just assume, yeah, this is the real deal. Years later we find out it is widely discredited. A lot of the stuff, a lot of a lot of the terrible things that Cobb does in the film never happened, you know.

15:33 Um, like the sexual assault with Lolita Davidovitch's character Ramona. Yeah, never, it never happened. You know. Did Tai Cobb sharpen his spikes. He's on the record as saying, yeah, I did it. You know. So I kind of like watching it, you know, After I watched it and I found out a lot of it wasn't accurate historically accurate, I had a different feeling about the film, Like I felt like I get in joy it more knowing that some of the darker stuff was just put in just for the sake of drama. Well, that's that's kind of tough because you do want to go with what maybe really happen. But the premise of the story is talking about the greatness you know, and you know, but the fact that it didn't happen. We all know from shuelas Joe Jackson and Field of Dreams. He could have played at the Field of Dreams, but none of them can stand the poor son of a bitch wasn't alive, so they told him to stick it. Yeah, so there's some truth to it, a lot of it. Yes, dramatic license does it? Does people discrediting the Jim Morrison's story make you not like The Doors by Oliver Stone anymore?

16:45 You know? Or there's it still can be a fun movie, And you can say because a lot of this stuff is in there to give him empathy, so it makes the story more interesting as opposed to just talk talking about baseball the entire movie. I'll tell you what you can't discredit is Tommy Lee Jones physicality in it. This is something that blew my mind. He breaks his leg right before filming and he's on a broken leg for most of the filming, which is okay because Cobb the old Yeah, yeah for the old persons scenes. But that shot of Cobb when he's running the bases, and you got that tight shot on Tommy Lee's face and the grimace on his face, Like I'm thinking, man, he's really running hard. It's not that he's really running hard, it's that he's running at all on a on a leg that is is just over being dunking like he's yeah, he's so the pain he must have felt, and like even the diving slide that he does, putting his putting his his foot into that that that catcher again injured him.

17:52 You know, they had to they had to. They had to slow things down and stop things for a little bit because he got it. He got hurt there too. I can't believe that he's out there running bases after breaking his leg like that. Yeah, no chance. Man. Would we have gotten more baseball scenes if he didn't? That is an interesting question because I kind of wonder like was there was there more that that that was written? Because I would have loved to see more of his interaction because like, they really play up the whole thing where he hates Babe Ruth and they don't get along. Yeah, we know from like the the file footage at the beginning that they were, you know, they're like and here's here he is with his his rival Babe Ruth. And I almost wonder like, could there have been some more some more baseball scenes and some more of him on the field that would have been cool. Yeah. I think that's the one of the week things about the film is not enough baseball scenes. Because I saw I thought at the beginning of the film, this is going to be a film that's going to be constantly going through the years. It's going to be a telling. But we don't really talk too much about kind of stories.

18:57 I think people would want to hear. I get you. Well, let's talk about Well, if I asked you, like you said, we know that there's not enough baseball in it, and that's fine, but there are there are you know, there's scenes that make a movie great, right, Yeah, if I asked you, do you do you have a pivotal scene that it's it's the most important scene in the movie for you, not your favorite scene, but the most important scene, the important scene where he's describing his reasoning for basically having final edit over the over the book of people. Yeah, basically Robert Woll's intention. Al Stump's intention is to have two manuscripts.

19:40 One that he shows Cobb every morning about baseball and what it was like and how great he was and the people that involved with and the other manuscript he was keeping secret is about Cobb's personal life, his marriage, is his uh, you know, problems, things like that. So Cobb is explaining to him what people need to hear, what they want to hear, That they need a hero that they want to be able to believe in something like greatness, and things like the personal tragedies that happen to that person shouldn't be included in that, you know, and it's not maybe the right of somebody to put that in there, to discredit the things that they did achieve.

20:23 Yeah, that was the pivotal scene. It is a great it's a great scene, you know, because Cobb is just saying what he expects, his expectations. Al Stump is saying. He's basically trying to explain to him, you know, people want to know the real you. They don't care about how to steal second base and how to how to hit a line drive. Is that the book you want? And Cobb's like, yes, it's a book about baseball. It's a book about me playing baseball. Yeah. So, And I want to say the reason that that is so pivotal to me is it is saying we should look at our professionals achievements and see if their faults affected those achievements, which is why we're wearing our Cincinnati Reds hats today.

21:11 That's why that film spoke so good to me to say that somebody that ends up breaking Thy Cobbs record of base hits, like Pete Rose, who is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame, should be looked at for his achievements, not his faults that do not concern his achievements. For the non Cincinnati Reds fans, Brad, you are, of course, are talking about the night of September eleventh, nineteen eighty five, at Riverfront, Pete Rose, one of our heroes, officially broke the all time record for hits in Major League Baseball four thousand, ninety two. He beat Ty Cobb's record.

21:52 Yes, and it knows that there's it's particular to somebody like Ron Shelton because one of the first stills that you see at the beginning of Bull Durham is the Pete Rose shot. And if you watch that movie with commentary with Tim Robbins and Kevin Costner, they talk about Pete Rose for a few minutes. Yeah, well you again, back to the scene that you're talking about, the your pivotal scene. You said something and it's a question that I had for you, so and maybe you already answered it, because my question was gonna be does knowing the great things the great things a terrible person does make them less terrible or make them more tolerable? You know, because and I'm not talking just about ty COB's stats. I'm talking about you know, when when when Mickey Cochrane shows up and then we find out all Tie has been helping him, you know, financially. You know, he never wanted press and he don't put that in the book. Every time, every time we see something that makes us like ty Cob, he's quick to say, don't put that, that doesn't go in the book, that's off the record, don't put that the book. And it's it's kind of sad because it's like, Okay, well now I don't know how to feel like, yeah, he's he's the meanest man in baseball. He's a jerk, but maybe maybe he's not as bad. He's balancing it out. No, he's balancing it out. He's not saying you can't print these bad things about me, of showing what a personal jerk I am. But you but he can't also put there, Oh what a nice thing I did. Go ahead and put it

23:25 in and make it sound like I'm a saint. He doesn't do that. He wants it to be just about baseball. Yeah. I have a different scene that I think is the most pitvol scene. Okay, So the end of the film that they reach Cooper's town because they're gonna honor Taie Cob right, he's going to the Hall of Fame. I love the moment where they're like, and we've got a a little presentation here, a little film for you, and you start to watch the same reel, that propaganda reel that we see from the beginning of the film, and my brain's like, oh, okay, nice, nice way to book in the movie. But as Cobb watches it, he starts to see terrible things that he did in his past. And the way that you've got the upbeat narrator going, you know, talking about the abuse he gives his wife and you know how he neglects his children and and and Cobb is like getting embarrassed and he's like kind of panicked, and he's looking around because he's looking around and everyone's like laughing and ooing and on, and he's like, what did you And meanwhile they're just seeing the real that we saw in the beginning of film. So narration in his head is the exact same as the narration to the film. Yeah, but now he's in his he's coming to terms with the fact that he maybe he isn't the best person, maybe he isn't a nice guy. Yeah.

24:51 I love that moment because it kind of and it lets you the audience now like, okay, well is it what is he full of? Is he full of it the whole time? Or did he do the bad things he did or did he not do the bad things he did? So it's it's in my opinion, it's a it's a it's an individual who's coming to terms with the bad things that he has done because he's guilty. He feels guilty over it. Yeah, And it's and it's a turning point for cod because after that, that's when he wants to go reconnect with his daughter, right yeah, and he wants to do nice things, you know, he wants to you know, bring the family back together in the in the same burial plot and you know, and all that, all the all the good stuff. Right. So yeah, but once again, don't print it, he said, yeah, exactly. But I love the fact that that that moment in the film where he comes to terms with who he is, his reflection.

25:40 I think that's I think that's one of the best moments in the movie. Well, let's take a quick break and then when we come back, we're going to dive into the filmography of Ron Shelton. Hey, this is Jason Colvin and the Truly Can't Be Serious Podcast. On our podcast, James D. Graves and I we break down movies of the eighties, nineties, even the seventies, and also music. We go track by track through albums. If you were an MTV watcher in the early eighties, you will definitely love our podcast. And if you enjoyed what I've said on this podcast, you definitely want to go over to be a Film by Patreon page, because I'm coming back and we're gonna do some great episodes over there and we're back.

26:26 You want to talk about Ron Shelton. Yeah, well, it's actually not the first time we talked about Ron Shelton. If you remember a little episode on nineteen eighty six called Best of Times, we talked a little bit about him. We did. But before we get to that, let's talk a little bit about the man himself, Ronald Wayne Shelton. Now, Brad, typically this is the point where I like to give you a little bit of background on the director. Tell you where they came from and where they went to school. Right, We're gonna do something a little bit different. Okay, I'm gonna give you Ron Shelton stats. Oh guy. And the reason why I'm gonna give you his stats, Brad. Ron Shelton played minor league baseball from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy one. That makes sense, it doesn't it make sense sense? He Yeah, So he played for the Bluefield Orioles, the Stockton Ports, the Florida Instructional League Orioles, the Dallas Fort Worth Spurs, and the Rochester Red Wings. So yeah, I mean, he he went all around. He knew that exact story. Wow, he knew he knew the life, right I will I will point out he did not play for the California Penal League like wild thing. But yeah, he was drafted by the Baltimore Orioles in the thirty ninth round of the nineteen sixty six MLB draft and over five seasons, Brad, here's what Ron Shelton did. Four hundred and seventy nine games. He batted two fifty one with four hundred twenty five hits, one hundred twenty seven RBIs, ten home runs,

28:00 and drove in two hundred and fifty seven runs. Not a bad career. That's not a bad stat at all. No better stat nineteen ninety seven, as you alluded to earlier. He marries actress Lolita Davidovich. Yeah, so if you're really going to end your career on a highlight, there, there you go. Right. Uh, let's talk a little bit about his work though. Now before we get into his filmography, I want to talk about because he's he's written a lot of his films, right, Yeah, he wrote he wrote eight. Yeah, he wrote eight of his nine feature length films. But there's four movies he wrote he wrote that that he didn't direct. I want to I want to quickly talk about them and get your get your opinion on him obviously, Yeah, you already said it nineteen eighty six the best of times. What more can we not say? Because you and I did a great yeah episode for eighty six we had Dayton Johnson of the Documents seventy seven podcast with us. That was a fun episode. Yeah, that was great. And of course or said, definitely fits into the the Ron Shelton language. It does, done it? What did you think?

29:07 I'm curious to know. What did you think of Blue Chips? He wrote that came out in ninety four when we graduated. I forgot to see it. Um, I remember seeing a little bit about it. Uh, definitely needs to maybe need another watch. It's directed by William Friedkin. I mean it's gotta be somewhat good. We talked about Nick Nolty on You Turn and but yeah, I would definitely give it another shot now knowing I didn't know he wrote that screenplay. I'll tell you this. I saw it in ninety four in theaters. Okay, I remember thinking it was good. Wasn't great, guy, But it's one of those movies I have watched probably a dozen more times when I when I've caught it on cable. It gets better every time I watch it. Okay, And like you said, you've got it's you've got to, you've got to you got a billy freaking script or you got a billy freaking movie written by Ron Shelton starring Nick Nolty. Yeah, about about basketball. It's good. I'm gonna just tell you give it, you know, give it a second chance Sunday. Okay, I give it. I think you're definitely gonna like it. Uh, speaking of shots, let's talk about The Great White Hype. He wrote that in nineteen ninety six. Did you ever see that? One? Never saw that. It was just one of those movies that I just don't think there was appeal enough of what it was about, whether it really was any good, It just

30:38 it just kind of fell flat. I remember seeing it on shelves when we worked on the video store, but like one copy and never selling. Well, i'll tell you what I'll tell you. Who agrees with you is the writer Ron Shelton. Yeah. I never saw it either, and I doubt I'm going to now because here's what Ron Shelton said about the Great White Hype, and I quote I tried to get my name taken off it because the film they made was not the script I wrote. I find it a horrible movie. Okay, So I don't think we're gonna be covering the Great White Hype in any future episode. So yeah, that's definitely gonna be a skip one. You one, we definitely did not skip because I know we saw this together in the theaters. He write, he writes a screenplay for Bad Boys too. Remember being extremely shocked when I believe I read that he was the screenwriter for that, and being very intrigued of what he was going to do with that. But that's when he kind of delves. We get a little different side of Ron Shelton. You get the buddy action comedy. You do, you do a little bit. Well, I just wanted to take a quick moment to talk about the four films that he did write that he did not direct, But let's talk about what he did direct. I think it's to say we have taken our time getting to his actual films that he directed. You know, we Loally gagged at the beginning of the episode.

32:08 We Lola gagged before the break? What's that make us? Brad? Lolygaggers, lolygaggers all right nineteen eighty eight, he brings us Bull Durham. I'd say the greatest baseball movie ever. I would say that. I did say that on the Top seven Best Baseball Films episode for the Docking Base seventy seven podcast, and I wanted to say anything else because if you want to know how great Bull Durham is, check out our friends Jason and d because they covered Bull Durham and they did a fantastic episode. So if you want to deep dive on Bull Durham, that's where you go, right. Yeah, And it makes you appreciate the movie more knowing that he spent all that time in the minor leagues. It really eat Yeah, it makes it so much better that it can him of a feeling itself that was great. It gives me a whole new appreciation for Bull Durham because I watched him recently and knowing like, okay, a lot of this is a lot of it's autobiographical.

33:12 For Ron Shelton's sad as hell, absolutely but still great, but still great. Let's talk about his his first time working with his future wife, Lolita Davidovitch nineteen eighty nine, he does his first biopic with Blaze. Did you see this one? No, And I didn't know it was a biopic and it's a Paul Newman, right, Paul Newman, I'll watch it. I would like to watch it. You gotta see it, Brad, because it's again it's Ron Shelton directing Paul Newman. It's all about the Louisiana governor who falls in love with a stripper. And you know, he was already like highly controversial because of his the policies that he had, and it's all about the people trying to tear him down because like, okay, well now he's now he's hooked up with the stripper, you know, and they're thinking, you know, scandal, but he, you know, the guys in love with her. So you know, it's it's it's it's got comedic value to it too, So I think you would like it. Check it out.

34:12 Paul Newman definitely having a fun time in that episode in that in that movie. Speaking of fun times, let's jump into the nineties. Nineteen ninety two, he directs White Men Can't Jump. You didn't expect a movie called this to be as good as it was. You definitely did not. This is one of the greatest. I mean, yeah, it's it's definitely a basketball movie. I get it. They're they're like they're they're street hustlers, but it's a basketball movie. Yeah, it's the Hustler for basketball. Yea. I love it and very much in the same vein of like Bull Durham, of not going the way that you thought it would all go. Hmm.

34:54 First time direct, first time working with a Woody Harrelson on this one, and uh, I didn't expect Harrelson to come up with this because he this was right after Cheers, right or was this during Cheers? It was around yeah, right after Cheers. You know, he wasn't or I mean yeah, he hadn't done like natural Born Killers and stuff like that. I think Cheers ended around ninety two. Yeah, okay, this is this is the beginning of Woody Harrelson, the movie film right, yeah, the film actor. Yeah, I like that, the film actor. Uh yeah. Him and Snipes though amazing, and it's it's one of those movies like it doesn't matter. It's yeah, it's been like thirty something years, but we're still watching it, we're still talking about it never felt dated. It still doesn't feel dated, and it's clothing maybe yeah, but it's fun. It's give give us another snipes Harrelson film one more. I would take that in a second. Uh. We've been talking about Cobb, which came out in nineteen ninety four, but two years later he does, he does what I think might be aside from Bull Durham, this might be his set, his next, his second best effort ever. Talking about his he gets back together with Kevin Costner, Brad, we're talking about tin Cup. Yeah. I mean, if you don't play golf, you will after this movie. Like Bull Durham. It explains why people play this silly sport that they do. That

36:25 there's always a love for something, but a film that I don't think you have to be a big golf person to really really enjoy. It's about those characters. You're right, I mean this is the film. I think this movie comes out and there is a a bigger interest in golf. And I'm not talking about watching it. You know, maybe there was that too, but I'm talking like people. People wanted to go out on the course, right, They wanted to play golf. You know, you're seeing Kevin Costner's Roy McAvoy's is washed up pro who's got one last shot to go up against, you know, the pro the headliner on the tour, right, Don Johnson. Yeah, yeah, David Simms, I think David. Yeah, we we simply sim Sims. We quote uh, we quote tin Cup quite a lot. It's got some quotable films. That is a highly quotable movie.

37:22 Uh. Lou Myers he you know, this is his second time working with him. He he played Clint, which again love Clinton. You know, I love that character. I love I love tin Cup. You know, his whole, his old gang, his his buddies that you know, Yeah, his whole, his whole group of there's a lot of great character actors in that group. And then of course you have and and Kevin Costner together or just just hilarious. That's yeah, such a great film. So you know, I want to watch I want to watch golf. I'll watch the US Open. After watching that, just because of how good it is, you'll get a little interested in it. You might think it's silly, but you'll get interested in it. Yeah, And you're right, man, so quotable. Like I can't tell you how many times you and I have been on road trips or whatever. You're you'll just I've been dreaming about waffles first damn near miles. You know, I love uh. I always I'll use a lot of the the Don Johnson quote a lot of times if if I do something and I'd make a point to like just really crush something, and I'll be like still going. You know. Yeah, the seven iron on the on the highway trick. That was. That was fantastic. Uh.

38:35 Let's talk about nineteen ninety nine. He teams up with and this is the great thing, Shelton. He finds a great actor and then he he he revisits them every couple of movies, right, So you know his second time teaming up with Woody Harrelson in nineteen ninety nine when he did play It to the Bone. Yeah, Harrelson and Antonio Badaris playing uh past their prime fighters for one big pay Day. I never got to see it. I would like to see it just because it's a run shout and film and both those actors are great. But that movie, like he said, it was nineteen ninety nine. That was a packed year, you know, and that was it to see a boxing comedy with all that stuff going on in nineteen ninety nine, I can see while myself you know, missed it. Yeah, I'll be honest, I didn't watch it in nineteen ninety nine. It's one of those I found, you know later on cam. Yeah, but again again, do your homework check it out, because I think this is gonna be one that you you like. I mean, anytime Antonio Bandaris is doing something in like an an action type of role. And I'm not saying that this is an action movie. It's you know, but it's a they're fighters. Yeah, but he also brings the comedy. Yeah, you know, like like like he does. I think you're gonna like it. I liked it again, like to quote your famous second Chance Sunday, going back and watching it again, I was like, yeah, this movie, it

40:07 should have done better. It should have been bigger everything it is. I mean, you know, this is I think, what the third time he's worked with his uh his wife, Davidovich. You know you also got Lucy lew in that. Um, you know there's time sizemoores in it. I know we did. But there's some great you know you were talking character actors in tin Cup. There's some great ones in a play it to the bone. So you definitely need to check that one out. One I think everyone should check out because I know, Brad, this was this was underrated. We could have easily talked about this film that I'm about to mention instead of of Cobb if we're gonna do a Ron Shelton movie, But let's talk about two thousand and two's Dark Blue. Yeah, this is where Shelton shifts from sports movies to police movies or crime action dark thrillers. You know, he just he does. We just mentioned he writes Bad Boys too. So after success of David Air's script of a Training Day, his next police drama based on a James Elroy story, is this Dark Blue movie that Shelton does.

41:22 And this is I understand there's a certain kind of hard to watch with Cobb. There's a certain kind of hard to watch with this movie too, But god, Kurt Russell is so awesome in it. Okay, So we love Kurt Russell in everything, damn everything he does. We love it. Right, This is the rare moment where you know, because he obviously he can play a good anti hero. You know he We've seen Snake Place. He is the best anti hero. He is the best anti hero. Okay, I you know what I will concede. I will concede because I can't. I can't argue that point with you. But we don't typically get to see Kurt Russell as a villain, as someone you don't like, and his role in Dark Blue, we're not meant to like him. No, he is, you know the great thing about this? Okay, So it's all about a homicide investigation that's taking place what like three four days before the verdict of the Rodney King trial is heard in Los Angeles, and stuff is already not doing well. Yeah, already we're having bad, bad, bad times.

42:35 But Kurt Russell playing Eldon Perry is his name. He's on this special squad who you know, they're kind of like they get to do what they want, you know, But we also we quickly learned like they're doing a lot of shady activities. Right. This is the plant the evidence, This has put the gun in the guy's hand. This is the Hey, we need someone for this crime. Let's just pin it on this guy because he's a scumbag. He really you're not supposed to like Kurt Russell, but Brad, I gotta tell you I do. Daddy built this city with bullets yeah, I mean the whole time, Scott Speedman is playing like his his rookie partner, who is like the moral compass of the movie. I'm Gonna do This.

43:17 He didn't like the first time I saw it, but because he seems kind of dopey and almost kind of dumb in it. But I almost feel that is his character now now watching it. It was like this only works of him being so manipulated by these guys if he's kind of you know, you know, kind of dumb, kind of not sure of himself at all. Yeah, because because uh, like the the guy running the whole thing played by Brendan Gleeson, he's the puppet master, right, and we get we we find out like he he has a scumback because he's doing all these illegal activities he's playing, you know, he's he's having these uh, these guys, these crooks, these use the criminals, knock off you know, liquor stores and stuff like that, and he's pocketing the money. And to your point, Steebens, it's not that his performance is bad, because he does a good job, you know, playing like that naive, dopey guy.

44:15 I just I don't like his character. Like when his character is weak, but I think it's supposed to be. It's you're right, it's supposed to be. But if we're supposed to be like falling on his side of things, like you know what, I hope this guy, you know, you know, this guy's the White Knight, and I want him to to win. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not in that camp. You know. I'd be more in being Rom's camp because he is sensational as the assistant police chief. I love being in this movie. Yeah, this is before Arby's. We have the meats? Is that is that being Rom? Right? No way, he's he's the Arby's guy. Yeah, that's him. I'm fact checking you on that. Okay, I'm gonna tell you one.

45:00 A year later, Shelton does Hollywood Homicide buddy cop comedy with Josh Hartnett and Harrison Ford. Yeah, I'm not a fan, are you? Okay? Release this movie in nineteen ninety five and it would have done fantastic. This kind of film was done with. Unfortunately it's in the vein of the lethal weapons, you know, forty eight hours, you know, whatever, you type of buddy cop movie that you want. They weren't really doing them anymore. You know, So this type of film just I didn't think it was a bad film. I think it's even It's got some good elements in it at all. The fact that it takes place in Hollywood and there's some things in Los Angeles that they talk about and making fun of Josh Hartnet's acting, I think is kind of good. It's just wrong time for that movie.

45:55 But it's still I think it's a decent movie. Is it. Okay, maybe it's Harrison Ford. Okay, I wasn't. I wasn't sure. I'm I'm still not sure that I that I like his performance in it, you know, because I know we're going Harrison Ford comedy. So is it just me being wrong because like I want the Harrison Ford action heroic guy. Possibly because yeah, he's he's not he's kind of bubbly in this movie. He's you know, he's funny. He's not he's not got all the answers. He doesn't, you know, he can miss sometimes he's he gets this car repode. You know. Well, Lolita Davidovitch back again. I think this is her fourth time. And at this point, yeah, they've they've been married because they got like like we said they got married a couple of years after Cobbs. So she was in Dark Blue. Obviously great. You know yeah, I feel like we kind of missed talking about her in Dark Blue because she is you know, it's again, it's not the role that we typically see her do, and they're both The second one is pretty big, very big scene, very good moment for her. Um. All right, well, maybe I'll give Hollywood homicide another chance, Brad, because you might have won me over there. Okay, I know we're not. We don't typically talk about television episodes that people direct, but I do want to point out because I feel like this is this this counts because it's a documentary film. Ron Shelton in twenty and ten does the He's one of the directors

47:29 involved in the ESPN's thirty for thirty series, which have been some phenomenal documentary short documentary subjects. Um, but it's uh, it's in twenty ten. I believe he does the episode. Uh, Jordan rides the bus. This about his baseball career. This is about Michael Jordan. Um. You know, Bulls win their third championship, his father is tragically murdered, Michael retires and decides he wants to play baseball, and you know, and everyone because everyone I remember Brad when we were kids, like we we we freaked out, like what do you mean he's quit in basketball? He's the greatest basketball player of all time? And then you find out that he's gonna play for the White Sox and we hadn't, I mean, I will. I was like, okay, well Bo Jackson plays two sports and he's he's amazing.

48:22 So Michael Jordan, Yeah, Michael Jordan can do it, right, I had his baseball card. Yeah, well I'll tell you something if you haven't seen it, you know, and again we're talking fifty one fifty two minutes. You know, it's a it's a short documentary subject, but Shelton really captures the essence of who Michael Jordan the person is and explains and helps show you why this was so important for him to do, because the bottom line is his father always wanted him to be a baseball player. Yeah, he chose basketball. His dad always thought baseball. You know, it's not like Michael Jordan's just a sided. Hey I'm not gonna play basketball and I think I'll try baseball. He was a baseball player yeah, you know early on, so uh and just seeing like, uh, just the the struggle that he has because you know, you think this is the greatest, one of the greatest athletes of all time. Look what he does on the on the court. So yeah, he'll just walk in and hit home runs and and make amazing plays and he doesn't. Yeah, it didn't, but you know, at the same time, it didn't go it didn't go horrible, you know. So it's very interesting if you're if you're a fan, I know it's on Disney Plus right now. I would strongly recommend if you're a fan of Ron Shelton, if you're a fan of Michael Jordan, if you're a fan of baseball, you gotta check out Jordan Rides the Bush. Excellent episode for thirty for thirty. Moving on, Brad, the last thing he directed in the twenty seventeen uh come another comedy. He's back to comedy. He's

49:57 back with Tommy Lee Jones, back with Rene Russo, he is uh now with Morgan Freeman, Joey Pantaliano. Okay, we who we love talking about a film. I don't know if you've seen this one, Brad, I have not just getting started, so you gets let me, let me, let me play. Let me break this down for you. Uh. Tommy Lee Jones is an x FBI agent you know, so thank thank Sam Girard Yeah, and an ex mob lawyer and who's in the Witness Protection program played by Morgan Freeman. They got to put aside their petty petty rivalry on the golf course to fend off a mob hit. Okay, I'm giving you.

50:42 I'm giving you a fugitive ten cup in a Ron Shelton comedy. What what do you think? I don't know. It's PG thirteen Russo. Yeah, I'd watch it because she's just so gorgeous she is she is. I'd give it. I'd give it. I'd give it a look. I want, I want you to give it a give it a look. See. Because I thought it was funny. I like, oh, you saw it, Okay, I didn't. Okay, no, no, no. I wanted to see what you thought about it. So I could say, yes, you're right, it is awesome and it's funny, or I could say no, Brad, I thought it was hilarious. No. Jane Seymour is in it. You know you're talking about how beautiful Rene Russo is, let's not forget. Let's not forget. Uh, Jane Seymour's in it, Doctor Quinn, Doctor Quinn, I'd i'd say Solitaire from you know, Bond Girl.

51:31 Yeah time, so yeah, fantastic film. Kind of surprising that he hasn't done something since then, though, Okay, that's okay, but I think I might I might have his next project. Okay, well you got it. I've got it all right. So then I'm going to ask you, because since he doesn't have anything currently in development, Brad, if you're gonna pitch Ron Shelton pun intended, what movie do you want to see him do? Well, I would say to him, Ron, you are to sports movies and baseball movies the way that Scorsese is with The Mafia, and I think you should finalize since you have done Cobb, it is now time to get together with Pete Rose and make the Pete Rose the biopic with him writing, not from another writer, but you two get together, you write the film. It's a big success, does really well, and because of that, Pete Rose is inducted into the Hall of Fame. That's his next project.

52:38 So you're pitching a movie where Pete is seen in a good light. We'll talk about the game his faults too, you know his faults too. Don't go, oh cob ask on me though, Yeah I don't. I'm not watching a Cobb styled but about the baseball so much of it too. But yeah, give me the Pete Rose biopic called Charlie Hustle or four one nine two. Well you can't call four one nine two because the Tom Sizemore movie that they did. No, but I'm talking about big budget movie. Ah, call it Charlie Hustle and you got me? Or no, wait, who was at forty one ninety two was called hustle? Pete Rose with Tom Sizemore College called Charlie Hustle because that sounds that's got, that's got, that's got pep, that's got snap there you go. All right, Look, I again, you have best to me because I can't. I can't.

53:31 I'm not gonna argue against watching a Pete Rose movie because I want to see it. I'll ask you this though, do you any any thoughts on who you want to be playing the role of Pete Rose? Yes, Kurt Russell, Kurt Russell, Yeah, but I mean I with all respect he is he's he's kind of I would have to do some thinking about that, all right. I feel like you need a good a good actor that's maybe in his is mid to late thirties who could effectively play the young Pete but also play the older Pete. Sorry, yeah, I got into the habit of thinking Kurt Russell can do anything. I just well, yeah, Kurt Russell can always do anything, but he might not be able to do Pete Rose. So yeah, all right, well, Brad, let's you know, closing closing it up on Cobb. Do you recommend seeing it? I recommend seeing it. Know that you are seeing a film, you know, you're not seeing an accurate depiction of a man's life. So if you want to see something in that kind of vein, and yes, if you like the really really historical and accurate information, then no, this isn't the movie for you. I say, yeah, you should see it, but I'm gonna tell you don't put it in your your lineup, so to speak, of baseball movies that you watch every spring, because I know I'm every spring when when baseball season starts, I'm watching Bull Durham, I'm watching Major League,

55:01 I'm watching the sand lot, you know some of these great baseball movies. Yeah, I'm not putting Cobb in that rotation. Yeah, it just does it wouldn't fit. It doesn't feel right right. Yeah, where did you see cob I did have to run it on Amazon Prime. Yeah that's too. Yeah, definitely worth the three bucks to see it. I think you can. You can even buy it on Amazon Prime for like nine bucks maybe bucks. Yeah, it's out there. It's uh. I think there's also um not that they want you to do this, but I think you can find some full copies on YouTube as well. I don't know how long they stay up, you know how long those links are available. But yeah, I would personally go to Amazon, you know, get the get the high def version, watch it that way, is what I would say.

55:49 Yeah, all right, well, Brad, I think that's gonna do it for us. But I am excited to say we are just a few days away from a bonus episode. Scott and Dave are back in the studio this Friday with a composer and horror model Chad Cochrane, and they're talking about maybe the best horror film of all time. They're celebrating the forty fifth anniversary of John Carpenter's Halloween. That should be okay. They finally get to do it. They finally get to do Halloween. All right, all right, Well until next time. Take care. Life feels a ball game being played each day. Life is a ball game. Everybody can play. Yes, Jesus stand got the home plate. He's a waiting for you. The he you know. Life. He is a bad game, but you've got to play it. Fam