A Film at 45 - Force 10 From Navarone

0:00 Hello everyone, and welcome back to nineteen seventy eight. In a Film Buys limited series, A Film at forty five. I am David Burns and I'm Scott Hoffman, and we're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems that we can't stop watching even forty five years after their debut. Today's episode takes us at a mission back to World War Two with Force ten from Navaram. We're enough commandos where dessessus are experts have been studying that rich for weeks and they say a little blow. I don't know where you learned your job, but I'm talking about the best construction engineers in the business. Yes, well, they're probably expensive building things, whereas I'm an expertive playing them up. The odds against them were ten thousand to one. But what the hell, It's time to join the fight with Fourth ten and go on one last adventure for nineteen seventy eight, the sequel to Guns of navarone loosely based on Alistair McLean's nineteen sixty eight novel, And I will say loosely. This impressively casted film brings Mallorie and Miller back together in another secret mission, this time played by Robert Shaw and Edward Fox, set in nineteen forty three, two years after the events in the original film, Scott, was this film seen by you years ago?

1:29 Or was this a recent viewing for you? So when we spoke with Jason, I was under the impression that I knew this movie more than I did. I recognized parts of it, but I'm pretty sure I just recognized parts of it from my dad seeing it on like a Saturday afternoon matinee, because when I rewatched it for this podcast, it was almost like watching it with the fresh eyes. So I'm really glad that we discovered this one, and I'm really glad we're talking about it because I think it's one that a lot of the people need to catch up on, especially with the new Indiana Jones movie coming out What About You. Yeah. So I'm kind of glad that we edited this one to talk because I know this wasn't on our original list when we were talking about doing the films from seventy eight. I'm glad we brought this one in because I had seen this. I want to say I cut it on like T and T or something like that long long time ago. I remember them blowing up the damn and that was about all that I remembered. So watching it again to get ready for the podcast, a lot of it was new again for me, you know, remembering Harrison Ford in that role with Barnesby, you know, and those kind of things that it felt fresh again. So I guess it was good that han't seen it a long time because it was like watching a new movie. Yeah, And I think it's absolutely one that deserves a rewatch now because I think even if it's one that you had seen early in the eighties, there are a lot more kind of pop culture connections that you're going to make now if you had

3:01 seen this before Last Crusade, for example, and a lot of other kind of like the Jack Ryan movies with Harrison Ford. There's a lot to revisit here that probably wouldn't have clicked in the same way in the early eighties when it was when it was going to be played the most right. Yeah, No, absolutely. The film hit theaters December eighth, nineteen seventy eight, had a budget of five million. I'll only end up making seven point two, I guess still a success since it made its money back and made a little extra but clearly not the success that I know Guns of Navarone had when it first came out. But before we joined Fourth ten on their secret mission, Scott tell our listeners who have never seen this, is this all about?

3:46 So before we started talking about this one, I'm going to get back into the movie that started at the Guns of Navaron. So in nineteen forty three, an elite commando squad stormed an access stronghold on the navarone to save the lives of two thousand British soldiers and countless Allied naval ships. The story of these commandos continues in this sequel, where two surviving members of the squad played by Robert Shaw and Edward Fox, joined Force ten, a specialized American unit led by US Ranger Harrison Ford that are focused on taking down another key strategic target in Yugoslavia. Their mission is to protect Yugoslavian partisan forces from a dual threat, the Access Army gearing up on the other side of a seemingly indestructable bridge, and a trader that also survived the Guns of Navarone, who focuses on destabilizing partisan forces from within. Joined by Carl Weathers as an accidental yet essential member of this squad, forced Ten races to their target in an intense adventure that sees sees them facing countless betrayals and in almost impossible odds.

4:48 Although this movie isn't discussed much, it's a hidden gem that's definitely worth uncovering. And I'll tell you it as far as the kind of the fresh watch of this and kind of getting familiar with guns Have Never Owned and film like maybe I'm a little behind if I haven't seen that one. It jumps right into the action with footage from Guns Have Never Owned that. I think cleverly of voids showing footage of Gregory Peck and the original actors and inserts Edward Fox and Robert Shaw into some of those scenes subtly, so the sequel helps somebody to pick up right where I left off right, So I think it's very cleverly well done. I think it's very well done, and I think it helps to kind of set the stage and gives you exactly the kind of background that I think you need to be able to get into this. Absolutely, I'm always a sucker for like historical films. I know Hollywood struggles with giving us that that accuracy, but you know, I really enjoy them for their settings. You know, you get to look at a different time period that you normally wouldn't get to see. You know. It's at escapism, you know, where you get to go back and see what it was like when you weren't around, you know, in different time periods. Yeah. Um, And for this one, I really like the story because you have two different missions going on here. You've got uh, Mallorie and Miller, you know, who have their own mission. Uh. You know, they're trying to kill the guy that escaped with le Leskovar was that his name? Yeah,

6:23 Yeah, they were trying to get him, while Barnesby has his own mission because he's got to you know, secretly take out that bridge, you know. And I really appreciate that because you know, that gives friction for these characters. You know, our first introduction to Barnesby when he runs into them as they're you know, heading to the office, uh you know, and they go into the office and they're giving their missions, and then Barnesby learns that Mallorie Miller are going is going with them. He's like, you know, these guys are two old men. You know they're going to slow us down basically, you know, they can keep us, you know, like trying to force fit them into his squad. Even though those two men are absolutely essential to getting the mission completed. If if Mallory wasn't there, less Oar, I'll put in a spoiler alert. Even though we've already talked about the damn exploding, We've had three five years. It's okay. Less k Oar would have completely, you know, ruined the entire mission from within, as he did it in several instances. And without Miller, they would have been throwing a bag of TNT against a steel wall essentially, like this bridge could not have been taken down by anybody else, no matter how many explosives they were going to throw at it, right, And since that was Barnesby's focus, that was his mission, it would have been absolutely impossible without

7:53 the two of them. So even though they were kind of I think he felt like they were being forced into that, I think it was absolutely important for them to be there. Yeah, and what I like, and it's jumping a little bit of head to the story of the story, but I love the fact that Barnsby is the one that kills us, you know, And it was like it was that one of the things like, look, I just did I just did your job. Now help me finish mine. I love that in the story when that happened, I did, yeah, And I think what's interesting in that scene, I'm glad you brought that up. There was a bit of emotion, Like it seemed like Harrison'sward was getting emotional in that scene. Ye, Like he seemed to almost be kind of welling up and saying like, so I did this for you to help me do mine. And I think it's, you know, um, that sense of desperation, like we're on a train that makes no stops. It's going to go near this, but I'm I'm at the point where it seems like my mission is hopeless and I'm about to fail my mission. So let's get this done exactly. Yeah, Well, before we really moving on to that, what I find unique about this movie too, is the fact that you have all of these actors who have just recently had these iconic blockbuster movies.

9:09 You know, that they're combining to do this one. Harrison Ford is just coming off of a new Hope, Star Wars, Robert Shaw had Jaws and seventy five, Carl weathers Rocky in seventy six, and then you've got Richard Q and Barbara Bach who in the previous year just had the SPA Who Loved Me. Right, you have like all of these major stars, you know, combining to make this movie, and you know it works having all of them in this movie, you know it was a very good combination in great chemistry among everybody. In my opinion, Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think that's a that's a really important thing to note, Like we were saying before, like this shares DNA with the Rocky franchise, the Jaws franchise, the Star Wars franchise, Indiana Jones, even the the Jack Ryan Yep franchise. I think there's a a lot of there's a lot of that that you can see beginning in here. And if you're a fan of any of those, um serious, this is definitely one to watch because you can see so many familiar faces, but you're also going to see actors that are um I guess arguably pretty early in there, early in the career that we know the most for I think that's arguable for Robert Shaw since he had such a career before Jaws. So I don't want to belittle his career and make him think it was just Jaws. Right, it's a pretty iconic one, so it is. Um, yeah, it's it's definitely going back back for for that if nothing else. Yeah, well let's break down this cast a little

10:41 bit. Um of of course, we'd have Harrison Ford, you know, as Barnesby. What else can you say about this guy? You know, he's had such an amazing career. Everyone knows him as he as Han Solo and Indiana Jones and just you know, Jack Ryan, and the list goes on and on for this guy. Very talented guy. And one of the things that I learned about him is, you know, he took on this role because he wanted to get away. It was basically he thought this was a guest star role, you know in this movie, you know, to kind of get away from that, you know, typecast kind of thing. Yeah, But to me, I felt Barnesby was integral to this story. I felt he it was the driving force behind all of this. I mean, I know this was about Mallory and Miller, but Barnesby was always there, was the one that kept pushing the story forward in my opinion, So I think his character was a lot bigger than he thought it was. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think he made the right choice in doing this when he did it, you know, soon after American Graffiti, soon after Star Wars, and I kind of wonder if this might have been playing in theaters while they were still running Star Wars, like in the same movie house. Should be able to like choose between the two. And it's also in the same year that he had another unfortunate production, the Star Wars Holiday Special about that, so soon after that, if this comes to theaters, it's very much like Okay, let's let's forget about you know, dancing with the Hookies. You see so much of what you would come to see from him in the future, you know, as a leader, Like you're saying,

12:16 there are so many movies where he has that. You know, we see a lot of the trademark authoritative pointing hand from him where he's kind of like get off my plane, kind of like m but you see a lot of that start here, and it's things that we saw a little bit in Star Wars. But he steps into the spotlight so much more with this, and I love the fact that it is you know, it's it's very much kind of a duality between Barnesby and Mallory from two different sides of this this mission and two different kind of attitudes. Like how um, there's so much seriousness in Harrison Ford's portrayal, Like there are a couple of times he you know, cracks a trademark smile and allso other kind of stuff, but he's kind of taken down a peg by Robert Shaw, who is just you know every single time that that half smile that he does just kind of diffuses the situation but helps both of them to drive it further. So, yeah, it's that it's that quartet of Robert Shaw, Harrison Forward, Edward Fox, and Carl Weathers yea that makes this such an engaging team to watch. I think of all the characters who had the best character arc in this, it was it had to be Harrison Force Barnsby because you know, you just touch based on it where you know, he was like this strick by the book.

13:39 You know, he didn't care about having these two new guys joining them. You know, he just wanted to get his mission go on. He wanted to take care of his mission, and he had the guys that he wanted. He didn't want anybody being thrown in there because it would throw them off, which it makes sense. I agree with that, right. But then you know, Malory and Millner started growing on him as the story grows along and by the end and you know, he just accepts them as part of the group, you know, because he realizes, you know, how important they were to make sure these missions that were accomplished the way they were. So I think his character had the best story arc in my opinion, from beginning to end. Yep, yep, absolutely, And I like how you're making me think about how how much he was focused on things have to go this way or it won't go right, like all the way to when they were talking about blowing up the bridge and he's like, well, what are you talking about. We've got all these explosives, We've got this plan.

14:33 And he was like, well that's nice. The people who were telling you how to blow out how to blow up that bridge are experts in building these things, not in taking them down, right, I am, And you have to be able to adapt thinking about when they were first captured by Draziic and brought in front of the you know, the German soldiers brought in front of Michael Burns Schroeder and Robert Shaw is the one who's always able to adapt in the moment because he knows that this plan has to be flexible because anything cannon will happen. So as soon as he's captured, he's like, oh, thank god you got us. Yeah, because we're deserters, were we're here for you. We have this penicillin. He's able to pivot like that, you know, thinking back to the scene with the plane when he's got this you know, this Force ten um ready to get into action and most of them were killed before they even land. You know, you have to be able to adapt to those kind of things, and I think that's what Robert Shaw helped him to kind of see, to be adaptable to that kind of thing. Yep, yep. And then the end introduction of Weaver Carl Weathers, you know, being pulled right into that mission, you know, getting pissed off because you're leaving me behind. I just helped you guys, right, no, right, yeah, And then I think he's on the plane I love that. Yeah. I think he was a great addition

16:04 the character of Weaver because it gets that that soldier's perspective, like Mallory has a plan, Barnesby has a plan, Miller has a plan, and everybody enforced ten is supposed to follow that. So Weaver being that voice that's like, tell me what is happening, Tell me what we're supposed to do. I know that there's you know, classified this and that and you know whatever, but we're in the thick of it, and if you want me to be a part of it, you need to let me know what's going on. Um. I think he had kind of a poorly timed um moment to express that when they were being chased by the you know, they're making their great escape and he's like, wait a second, I need to stop and talk about this. They're like, no, you need to get the truck started. Yeah, well, let's let's talk a little bit about Robert Shaw as a Mallory. UM. I believe this was here his last completed film.

17:02 He would pass away August of seventy eight, so he wouldn't even get to see this movie being released, which is quite a shame because I think he died in the middle of filming Avalanche Express, which came out in nineteen seventy nine, but this would put this as his last completed film. But quite quite a shame behind that because he was such a very talented actor. That was taken a little bit too soon for him, that's for sure. Yeah, absolutely, And considering that he didn't seem like he had much of an opinion of this movie, right. It seemed like he's been quoted as nut enjoying the filmmaking process at this point in his career and predicted that this might be his last one. Not that he knew that he was willing to pass away, obviously, but maybe he was getting tired of the industry and on this set it seemed like he went through quite a lot. I saw that he was attacked by a group of robbers during filming this movie, UM, and to just you know, to show how much of a you know, a tough guy he is, how impressive he is, he fought them off and chased them away with a machete. That sounds like wow, So you know, it's unfortunately he had to go through that, but I think this is essential viewing in his career. UM. You know, it is a war movie, it is an action movie, it's an adventure movie.

18:30 So um, it might not have as much depth as some of his other roles, but the way that he captures scenes, his his stare, specifically, especially when he's looking at Leskovar, he's staring a heat vision hole through that guy every time he's staring at him, because he's told like, no, this isn't the guy you're supposed to take out. He's already gone, and he's like, yeah, we'll see I know. So just that that laser focused stare at him, that's almost hypnotic. It's kind of like it feels like if you're looking at you know, into the face of a lion. That was just kind of like, you know, rolling its shoulders and getting ready to pounce. Yep, you know you're in trouble. It's it's that thing where actors are told to, you know, act with your eyes.

19:19 How important that is. And Robert Shaw does such an amazing job with that. Just the looks that he gives, you know, his eyes and how he's looking at somebody just like you said, just shows how good he is at performing in front of the camera. Yeah, and I believe he heard his knee before this film, which is why they gave him the cane and the limp, so they kind of wrote it into the script so it made sense. Yeah. Um. But what I found very interesting is, I don't know if you noticed this or not, but at the beginning when it was introducing those characters, right before when they ran into Barnsby, they found out that they were going to the same meeting when he was using that cane, So before he went to the meeting, do you know if he threw the cane, stay here, take the back to my office, right, he didn't want to be seen with the king going into that office, right. Yeah, Well that's an interesting touch. Yeah yeah, I thought that was so gorgeous, added to his character and thinking, oh, okay, this guy's a badass man. Yeah, absolutely, god yep. Then of course we have Edward Fox who played Miller. He was in Gandhi You Never Say Never Again, which, by the way, there's a lot of Bond connections to this movie, including Gott Hamilton obviously who directs this, right, but clearly that's probably why we have a lot of Bond connection. But still I think it's going I thought everar Fox did really good. I know David Niven was Miller in the original, and by the way, Gregory Pack was the original Mallory. But I thought that you guys that we got Everard Fox and Robert Shaw did a great job building it for Gregory Pack and David Niven, don't you think. Yeah? Absolutely, Edward Fox's Miller was so

20:52 calm, cool and collected and for somebody who you know, manages the toy store. As they said at once point, the guy who's in charge of explosives, UM keeps a level head through the entire picture, even when they're like, so we're staring at a at a at a damn that we can't blow up, UM to even think about doing so, we have to get right in the you know, right behind enemy lines for eight hours at least to get it done. And he's like, yeah, you know, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure we'll figure it out. UM. I loved his approach. Uh. There was the one scene where we had the um kind of the pass when there when their truck broke down and they had to kind of like get ready to attack. The guy's on horseback and he blows up the whole ravine um to trap them and then just comes kind of like trotting down the hill the big deal. Yeah, such a level head.

21:48 Even has that like theme song and that pipe they keeps smoking. Yeah, yeah, he did. He did a great job in this one. He was like a little kid with his with his explosions, right. He was so excited about, you know, showing off what was in his briefcase and and using it like the whole distraction he did at the end when they were you know, to sneak into the damn he had to like pull a lot of those German soldiers away. So they were just running around having fun with his explosions, in his fireworks, just having a good old time, right exactly. Yeah, even even the case that he was carrying around. It was like a chemistry set, yeah, right, like a kid with the chemistry set. It was crazy. It was really good, really good character. I really enjoyed watching him u um. Then we have Franco Nero who played leskovar Um. I thought he did a fantastic job in this role because at one point I believed him when he said, you know, I'm not a German part what are you talking about? Where they kind of like laughed that off, and then you know, you you get that a little bit later obviously when um uh what's her name, um, Barbara back Marizza where she catches him, you know, talking to the Germans to let him know what's going on. You know, I believed him, so they you know, they they had me for sure on his character, on his twist.

23:08 And I love the whole part where they sneak in to steal the land mines or whatever that was, you know, to help them blow up the damn that whole sequence and I'm gonna, you know, give away what one of my favorite scenes is is that whole sequence because you know, you're on your edge of the seat right there, because you know he's telling the Germans, hey, i've got these guys here. Go get your men, you know, and let's get them all, capture them all together. And then you have the good guys who don't really know that he's still he is a spy, and so they're kind of like watching what he's saying. But then they catch him later on. I was like, why why did you salute him? And I love that because I didn't catch it at first, and then they did, Oh my god, he did salute. Was it a sergeant, I believe it was. I said, why why were you saluting him? And then you started seeing their minds basically working like this guy is indeed a German spy. I just love that whole sequence, man. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's a really cleverly orchestrated sequence. Like you said, it's so many different kinds of things that he has to do.

24:19 He has to be on the train, on the ground, running back and forth and trying to fool so many people, and you can see all his you know, charismatic machinations kind of breaking down right up until that point. He's got everybody right where that he wants them. He's kind of playing them like puppets, and he's losing his grip again as they get closer to their objective. I do think it's interesting in that scene where they confront him on the train, it's not an immediate confrontation. They want to slowly break it down and they want to show him like we're seeing this, we're seeing this, we're seeing this, we know who you are, and kind of building to a confession before Barnesby ultimately shoots him and just says, let's just end this. He does have a very captivating look, as you know, you can see him being a very you know, charismatic kind of actor.

25:18 But he's got those blue eyes that just kind of stare through you, which is interesting when you know, gestaposed that with Robert Shaw right, that it's like a staring contest, right, like which one of them is going to stab? But yeah, I thought it was. It was interesting to watch him. The whole time. I was trying to figure out where do I know this guy from? And I know that he was the original Django way back in the day. In Camelot he played Lance a lot, which probably means more to my parents than it does to me. But then it finally clicked when I was looking into his his career. He was Esperanza from die Hard Too, which of all the things he's done and currently doing, he's probably like, really, that's what I'm being remembered for, but that one stood out to me. Was like, yeah, it's Esperanza so and they die Hard two fans, Yeah, that's gonna click with you too. And when I caught two and I looked at his uh, you know what he was. In his most recent movie, he plays the Pope in The Pope's Exorcist that just came out a couple of months ago. Oh crazy, I know, I gotta gonna check that out now, I know, right, same here? Well of course, okay, sorry, oh no, just let's get into Carl Weathers. Yeah, yeah, let's let's talk about Carlo Carl Weathers as a weaver. Obviously we all know him from Rocky Predator and you know recently The Mandalorian. But Scott, what have you got? Uh?

26:41 Yeah? So Carl Weathers, I think is a is a standout performance into this because he is not He's not trying to distance distance himself from sci fi like Harrison Ford was, but he still has um an iconic role that he started to filed with Apollo Creed, which is one of my favorite roles. I think he's he's an amazing actor, and I think what this helps to do, similar to Harrison Ford, is it helps to demonstrate his range. He has a lot of great emotional range that he's able to explore with this, but he's still got that commanding presence I think as a leader in his own right for this squad, he's keeping them focused on the mission.

27:30 He's making sure that they're able to do what they need to do. He essentially is force ten that they're leading and he's getting the job done. I think it absolutely sets him up as not just an action star, but a leading man in things you mentioned like Predator, like Action Jackson even to present day. I've got to say one of my favorite characters in the toy story of franchise Combat Carl. His voice, his um, his presence on the screen absolutely commands your attention, and I think he steals every scene where he's featured. UM. I think he keeps his cool. I think he's a balance between Um, the rest of the team, Mallory, Barnsby, and Miller Um. I think he shares part of what each of them bring to it. He's focused on getting the mission done, but he knows when it's necessary to kind of diffuse that tension. He knows when it's necessary to keep your cool. I think this is an amazing role to see him in.

28:45 I think it's a demonstration of his range, and I think it's absolutely one that's essential for somebody to see that's a fan of him today. If your only exposure to him, for whatever reason is Cargo from Mandalorian, you need to see this movie because seeing him at that age doing what he's able to do. Um, you can definitely see how this had a big role in the rest of his career. I know that Jeff saw him at Motor City Cone and asked him specifically about Forced ten. Didn't get much time to talk to him, but said, you know, what did you think about, um, what was one of your favorite experiences about working on Forced ten?

29:32 And he was like, I loved everything about working on Forrest ten. It seemed like he had a great time, and you can see it on screen. Yeah, his his character, you know, as you said, you know how calm he was. One of the scenes that I thought was really impressive. Of course he would eventually punch him. Was the first scene when he met Drasic. You know clearly what he was, you know, saying to us jerk, yeah, yeah, and you know, and and eventually I like how you know those two faced off one another later on in that final fight that had went out with the knives and stuff like that. I just love those whole sequences. And I'm glad we ever had his showdown with Drazik because he needed that. He earned that, uh, you know, and I respect of that, and I really enjoyed that. But yeah, I couldn't speak more highly of, you know, of him. Carl Weathers was fantastic in this movie, from his introduction of being arrested by the MP to sneaking on the plane, you know, to being thrown into this mission that he hasn't no clue what he's doing, you know, and even going back to the scene that you talked about where you know that they're they're in a rush and they're like, hey, get back in the truck. No, I need to know what's going on? What are we doing? You know? You know, all of his scenes were just fantastic and were really important to the movie and really just showed what a strong character he was and how much he was needed in that cast. Absolutely Scotty, but couldn't agree more. Well, the next man got of course, let's talk about dras good Old Richard Keel himself. Um, you know, we we talked about one person who was in the movie Jaws, but we're gonna talk about a

31:03 person who was Jaws and Moon Raker, uh the spot who Loved Me. He was also in Pale Writer. But this Richard kill has got a long list of movies that he was in. And everybody who knows who Richard Kill is really tall guy, um, you know, and just always plays this what mammoth guy character and yeah, big guy. I think his wife was only like five foot something and like it's like that's wow, how did that work? But okay, never mind, Ye, but yeah, fantastic actor. Did a lot of work, uh you know, throughout the years and very recognizable. And I thought I thought he did great in this role. I even though I hated his character, especially the way he treated Weaver um, but you know, it was his character. Uh you know, like you said, a racist jerk, but um, that's just who that character was. And I thought it was well placed in this movie who he played.

31:57 So I liked it. Yeah. And as somebody who's, like I said, seven foot to this towering presence, he really represents the force that he was kind of leading right that side of the story. He um kind of stood for them, So it gave you kind of a focal point. I think the rest of the soldiers were were there to you know, to serve a certain role, but it gave you kind of a focal point to them, like if we're able to beat him, we're able to beat the whole thing. I think he did a great job. I know that a lot of his lines were dubbed, yeah, for various reasons, but his presence is one that you absolutely can't miss, and he commands attention. He is at the same time, you know, like that scene where the little boy runs up and tells him about you know, they're sneaking in their impostors, and he's walking with him saying like, hey, a little guy, you're gonna be all right, and kind of encouraging like maybe I'll make you part of my army, you know. Um. Yeah, he did a great job of making you, you know, hate him and see him as this you know, enemy to be taken down. But also just um, there's there's no looking away from Richard Keel right, No, yeah, none.

33:23 Um. A couple other characters or actors I should say that you know we're in this movie that I just I want to mention is obviously Michael Byrne and a Wolf Collar, because both of those guys were would go on to be in Indiana Jones with Harrison Ford. But Michael Byrne, who who played Schroeder in this I have I love his character because when I watched this again, I'm like, oh my god, that's Vogel right from the Last Crusade. I always remember that's one of my favorite scenes of all the Ennan Jones and there's very many, but but when he fights Vogel on that tank in the Last Crusade, just love, love that scene. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is in the earlier days of Michael Byrne. It was really neat to see him and again playing a German again. I'm like, Okay, apparently he does this really really well. Right, Well, that's what I mean. Like, you see the DNA of Indiana Jones in this so clearly, Like when you mentioned Wolf Caller, you know, um, the guy who's one of the people who has his face melted by the Lost arc, right, you can't see his face without seeing his face melting at least, So it's very interesting to see that here. And it's almost like, you know, I when I see a lot of these scenes, it makes me wonder, you know, how much of this footage may be used to help with dial of Destiny when it comes out. You know, there's there's so much early Indian in this it's incredible it is. Yeah, I just wonder if some of this was an inspiration to that, you know, Yeah, um, and it could be. I mean, because there's just so many connections to Lucas film. But we'll get into a little

34:54 bit later. Um. Let's talk a little bit about the director, Guy Hamilton. This guy was quite known for the Bond films. He did Live and Let Die in seventy three, gold Finger sixty four, Diamonds Are Forever in seventy one, The Man with the Golden Gun in seventy four. He would also do the Battle of Britain, which I believe he used some Battle of Britain footage in this movie. Yeah. And what I did not know, did you know he directed Remo Williams in nineteen eighty five? Because I did not know that. Really, I did not know that. I know, I found that quite interesting. But Scott, we didn't talk about this in our Superman episode, but he was originally hired to direct Superman. I didn't know that either. Yeah, I didn't know that. I did see that in looking into this movie, but I didn't know. Yeah, because it was scheduled the film in Italy, and I guess good old Marlon Brando who always had to have his way, didn't want it to be filmed there, so it got moved to England, and of course Hamilton had dropped out because of that, and that's when Richard donnerd dotted. But you know, I found that quite interest. I didn't know that it would be a much much different movie. Yeah, I'm kind of glad it happened the way it did. But yeah, no offense, Guy Hamilton, No, no, no offense, no offense. Yeah, um, but no, I mean I thought Guy Hamilton did a really good job with this movie. And anyone who knows Bond knows the name Guy Hamilton, and I think getting him to direct this film was it was a good touch because you know, and that's why there's probably a lot of Bond connection to this of a lot of actors who were in this movie, because he probably pulled him in with him.

36:27 Um, you know, but it was very fitting. And you know there's some sequence in here that had a little bit of that Bond touch to it, you know, with the villains and stuff like that. You know, it really had that vibe at time. So, um, I think having Guy Hamilton do that I thought was a nice touch. Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree. All right, so let's look through the limbs. Scott, um any any interesting behind the scenes that you might have found while digging information for this movie? Um, well as already mentioned, Um, you know, it's a it's a sequel to a movie that was made a decade before it comes out, So again, I haven't necessarily seen the original, but the original was such a success that they wanted to kind of build on that success and continue this. Unfortunately, they had a hard time getting that done.

37:21 Following the success, the author Alistair McClean was asked to write a sequel novel as a follow up to the film, but I guess there was some reluctancy to do so, felt like it was more appropriate to do a screen treatment, so that ended up getting stuck in a lot of developmental complications. Came out as a book soon after, but it would be another decade before they could get it made. So obviously you have a sequel that doesn't use the original cast to a movie that people may have forgotten or not thought about in quite a while. So there was weaker interest in seeing that sequel come through, which probably led to that less than stellar box office. After all that, you said, seven million as opposed to twenty nine, which is unfortunate because you know, when you think about how much kind of came out of this movie, how many connections there are to this movie, and how much it's a really quality movie that doesn't get seen too much. I think the poor performance makes it seem like it was a bad movie. Even hearing quotes from the other actors make it seem like a movie. They're almost kind of like, yeah, I did that, it was just for the money, or I'm kind of embarrassed about it. But I don't think they necessarily have to be. I think it stands up. I've watched it a few times, and each time I think it has the same impact. It also

38:55 came out in a year where there was a lot of controversy surrounding Vietnam, So we've already discussed The Deer Hunter this year, and there are a lot of movies coming out, which made war probably a difficult subject to discuss and probably made it very difficult for a movie focused on war to come out and succeed. So I think it's unfortunate timing. I think it's fortunate timing and that we got performances from Robert Shaw when we did performances from Harrison Ford and Carl Weathers at this point in their careers, and we had so many connections that obviously led to other things. It's just unfortunate that that happened to undermine the success of what this could have done. Yeah, I know, Um, this is, like you said, this was based off of Alison McLean's book, you know, very loosely. You know, it doesn't even it has very little resemblance of what was in that novel. Apparently I've not read it, but my understanding is such little resemblance to it. Basically name, you know, is what they used, and little other things. Um, but I know mcclaim would go on later to adapt I believe, a screenplay into his like a nineteen eighty two book of Partisans because of so much, you little, was used in this movie that he was able to go on and do that. Um, you know, digging for information for the movie, it wasn't a lot out there for me that I could find. But you know, just just the movie in general was was you know, really

40:30 entertaining to watch from beginning to end, especially for a movie, you know, a movie in nineteen seventy eight. I feel it still holds up in my opinion. Uh. You know, we talk about a lot of things that we love, scenes that we like to watch and stuff like that. But we'll get into that a little bit later. Um. You know when we talked about our favorite scenes with the rewind and stuff like that. Um, but let's talk a little bit about the score itself by Ron Goodwin. Um. This man has an undry list of movies and music that he's done. He's done Frenzy The Day of the Triffids in sixty three, which I think is funny where eagles there, and he even uses some of where eagles there's music in this movie. Yeah, Um, the Battle of Britain.

41:17 He also did a movie called Candleshoe, which was a very young Jodie Foster Disney movie, Yeah, which I found quite interesting. But one of the things I liked about Goodwin's score was the opening when they did the main title sequence where he had like those sketches and stuff like that you were seeing the map, you know, and stuff like that. I really enjoyed that score. You know, at first, when I first heard it, I'm like, this is it seems very whimsical. It seems uh, you know, lighthearted, and fun, you know, for a movie that I thought was going to be very very serious, because, like I said, it's been a long time since I've seen this movie, so it was, you know, almost like seeing it new again. And I didn't remember the score that much. So when I'm seeing this opening music, I kind of felt like, this seems kind of different from the move, but I really enjoyed it.

42:07 Um, you could this movie really has a resemblance too, would you say, like Dirty Dozens and stuff like that too. Would you feel it's got a little bit of resemblance to that? I think so. Yeah. And when I when I think about that kind of theme song or the you know, the one that you keep hearing over and over again, it almost seems like it's, um, um, it's Mallory and Miller's theme. Yeah, you're right. It very much seems to fit with their approach, like, um, yeah, we'll get this done, and the odds are against us, but we'll keep pushing through, won't we, you know, And oh yes, it shouldn't be a problem. We'll be home by we'll be home by sundown. Yeah. Um, you know, they're they're not dismissing the seriousness of the mission. But they're very much seeing like you know, you've you've got to be um adaptable. You've got to be loose with this kind of thing because there's so much that could change and you just have to be willing to to flow with it. I think that was very helpful with this kind of thing, and it helps to set the tone for what kind of movie this is going to be. It's done, you know, dis missing the seriousness like I said, but it's it's acknowledging that you have to be willing to to flow with it and we're gonna go with what happens in the mission. Yeah. What I what I find interesting about Goodwin too, just a little bit of his background. He scored approximately seventy films in his career. Wow. He went on to do about eighty albums released of his music, and he recorded and helped with two hundred and fifty to three hundred and fifty singles over his years. So he was busy. He was a

43:43 busy man. He was a busy man. What I find also interesting about him too is his father was a London policeman and his mother felt that to help her son that he would need piano lessons, you know, to help him pass the time. So when I when I he was like five years old, I believe it was she started having him learn the piano, so which obviously was his introduction to music, and he would later go on when he was eleven, he wanted to be a trumpet player, which was kind of odd because you know, when he went to his teacher, you know, it was kind of like, well, we don't have any trumpet players.

44:28 And so he started playing that and learning that and used that as a tool to really break further into music and become that composer and that conductor that created everything that we know. I think that was fascinating, of all things to pick up on, you know, the trumpet. You know, the piano I get because I think that's what a lot of people learned from, right, you know, I mean guitar too, of course, but piano, I think we know when you're getting into those big orchestral pieces of conducting and composing and stuff like that. I would think the piano would probab would believe, the one that you start on to get your introduction into music. But for him to just branch off into that trumpet area, I just think that was interesting. Yeah, well, I mean it shows another UM, you know, representing that that brass section and seeing it from a different perspective and being able to to make that such a focus of what he would compose.

45:22 M. Yeah. I love hearing the different avenues that musicians take to get into that that role and how it really does take somebody from every section to bring it together. It does. Scott, let's let's rewind. Let's talk about some of our favorite scenes in this movie. What are some of yours? Man, there's a lot. I love the firewooden penicillin plan. I think that was really clever. That's one that it kind of represents the different twists and turns that this makes. It's it's not a direct path to this bridge they have to blow up. There's a lot of different things that they have to go through, a lot of surprises, UM, a lot of double crosses, UM, and triple crosses they have to figure out.

46:04 I think Barbara Bach does a great job as Meritza UM never quite knowing UM what to believe or which side she's on, UM, and then knowing the role that she had in helping them escape that way UM. I think was was brilliant UM and it was. It's definitely one that has you kind of guessing what they're going to do. Um. I feel like, um, it's unfortunate that Petrovitch her father didn't listen more times. This has been a shorter movie. Um, but you know that kind of yeah, you have to get it. Take it for what ha happened. Um. One of my one of my favorite things that just made me giggle was the weekend at Bernie's escape. Oh god, yeah, I got that. That is one of my favorite right Schroder Like seeing Harrison Ford kind of hold up his hand, you know, this salute, right, and then later on when they get to the ravine and they're kind of I guess staging the accident or whatever for whatever that's worth. Pushing him down the ravine brought me back to Last Crusade when he's in that tank and kind of diving off the cliff. Right.

47:19 It was almost the same thing, and I was like, oh man, this guy can't to see it from cliffs. I thought. The Flamethrower twins we're an interesting touch. Obviously they're used as a different kind of, um, you know, in different kind of ways throughout See there's that bond thing again. Yeah, exactly. I'm telling you that could have been in a Bond movie exactly. And the last one for me is the damn with the fireworks. There's a lot of impressive set pieces and that one is just incredible. Yeah, so I'm glad we we thought about that. What about you? So there's quite a few scene in this movie they really I talked about one of mine when they found out that Leskovar was indeed the spy and you know, Barnesby ends up, you know, shooting him and you know, basically saying that I've helped you. You know, now you need to help me, you know, basically finish my mission. Um. But one of the lines that I really liked, and it's gonna go back. We've talked about this scene several times. It's a scene with Weaver and it's when they're you know, they're at the truck again and you know, they're in a hurry to get out of there, and would you just get in the truck. We gotta go, we gotta go. But then they had this long dialogue scene. But it's when Barnesby was completely openly and honest with Weaver.

48:36 And that's that's what one Weaver over at that moment, you know, he say, you guys didn't come back for me, and and you know, and Barnsley, look it is no, we didn't come back for you, you know, And and then you just get that smile on Weaver's face like all right, you know, finally some honesty here, you know, all right, let's go right. I've loved that scene so much between those two characters because it was just, you know, right, there was their connect, that was their growth, you know, to say, all right, let's let's do this now, let's get our mission completed right well, and yeah, because in that moment, and that's a great moment to bring up, I'm glad you did, because he's saying like, you guys, don't you have a mother hunch about me? Like he's almost saying like, you guys are doing this on purpose to spite me. And he's like, no, we really didn't think about you. We were thinking about the mission.

49:22 And that kind of brings him back to focus to be like, yeah, let's got a good point. All right. You guys aren't doing it specifically to hurt me. It's because you know that we have to get this done, so let's get moving yep. If he could do that faster, that would happend to good, right, can we got to that limit faster? But hey whatever. Yeah. The other thing that I found humorous is this goes back to Harrison Ford being Harrison Ford, who we get to know and love is Hansel Ninia Jones. It's when Mallory and Barnesby are in the dam and it blows up, but it doesn't work. Well, it doesn't work at that moment, and you get that what it didn't work? I know it didn't work right, and they're yelling at each other because you know, but you're right, they couldn't hear. But they're also furious because they're like, this was supposed to be the thing. And again, you know, outside of that, when you're watching Weaver have the same reaction to Miller and he's like, what is wrong with you? And he's like, patience, let it happen. Yeah, yeah, just laid back. It's okay, We've got this, I promise exactly. Loved it, loved it all right. Well, let's quote this Scott Um. I don't know if you found anything, but I found one thing from Robert Shaw. It really wasn't about the movie itself. It was really about acting. Um. He says acting is instant, enjoyment and childlike. As an actor, Lord God, I can take an audience in a theater and throw them in any direction.

50:46 I can't do that as a writer. Writing is painful. It's lonely and you suffer and there's no immediate feedback. I couldn't agree more with Robert Shaw. You know, in writing a lot of projects that I have done over the years, it is indeed lonely, and yeah, you do suffer because there's no one really to share it with except for yourself. So I completely understand that quote from Robert Shawn. Yeah. Absolutely. And again, you know, I'm glad that we got the performances that we did from him. I think it's unfortunately we didn't get more. Um. I think the ending of this movie makes me want a sequel. Yeah. Um. I would have liked to have seen a bit more success for this so that maybe we could get one more performance from Robert Shaw with this cast to show how they get home. Yeah. I think there's gonna be a long walk. Yeah.

51:40 And it just things like that when you hear about the the enthusiasm he had for for acting. Um, and for this, you know, for his performances. Um, I'm glad that we got what we did, but it is unfortunately we didn't get more from him. That's why I go back to saying again, for anybody who's a fan of Robert Shaw, for whatever production, for whatever way, this is absolutely one that you should watch, if nothing else then to see what his final performances. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more with that, Scott, what about any what is I I found it interesting because, like you mentioned earlier, you know, they were planning this as being a sequel a little bit sooner than it did, because you know, they obviously wanted to bring back Gregory Pack and Anthony Quinn and David Niven, but since it was so much later in years than it didn't come out until seventy eight, obviously all those men were too old. I think, And as you said earlier, I think it would have been a lot more successful of a film if they had done this sequel back in the sixties, a little after they did Guns of Navarone. You know, I think it would we would probably clearly got a different film then we got in seventy eight, because Guy Hamilton probably wouldn't have directed it at that point. But I like the movie we got is basically what I want to say. I think we would be good too if we had gotten Gregery pecking on them back, because Guns of Navaron was a good film. But I like the film that we got, I really do. Yeah, And I think it it

53:13 could have worked with that original cast when they originally planned to do it, and I'm sure it would have been successful. Like you said, it would have been a much different film. But I don't think the two movies are dependent of one another, right. I think it's almost better too, or it would have been better to just package this as its own movie. I kind of wonder if it would have been better to almost severath connection between the two, if you wanted to make it a I think it could have stood alone without having the backstory of Navarone, without knowing that, so that people could maybe see this for what it was and not necessarily or you know, oh it's a sequel, Oh it was ten years ago. That I don't really care about it. Yeah, there's that dismissing. That dismissal that probably hurt it um and as much as it kind of helped to say, you know, you've got this backstory and you know, from Navone and Leskovar being the trader and all this other kind of stuff. I got that pretty easily.

54:19 Like I don't feel like I need to go see Guns of Navone for all this stuff to click U. So yeah, I kind of feel like it's one of those that should have just stood alone on its own. Yeah. I know Charlton hestonably was up for a major Mallory wasn't he h Yeah, and that it would have worked, but it would have been a much different movieum, And to be honest, I'd rather see more of Robert charlotan I would have Charlton Heston. Yeah, I can't imagine Charlton Heston being in this role having the same kind of presence and work in the same kind of way with Edward Fox. You and not to put Charlton Heston, because Charlton Heston an amazing, amazing actor, had an incredible career, but Robert Shaw with with those glances, again, I don't think we would have got that same tension from Charlton that we got from Robert Shaw. So yeah, I think again, we had the right person in the right role in that situation without a doubt. Yeah, And I think that's something that could help with people seeing it now in this generation. You know a lot of people who have different experiences with all these actors. I think it could be more successful if it's brought back, especially considering, you know, we have the last Indiana Jones movie coming out with Harrison Ford. Um. I know there are a lot of there's a lot of talk about this movie that's sparkling back up again. I think it's a great time to introduce it, and so I

55:51 don't feel obligated to have to see anything else. I'd say, just dive right into this, give it a fresh look. Well, let's talk about the impact of the film, Scott. You know, that's one thing that we that's why we talk about these nineteen seventy eight movies because they have such an impact on the film industry. But just look at the people that were in this movie. You know, we've already mentioned the people who are already having a great career at this point in blockbusters that they have already seen with Rocky and Star Wars and Jaws and all those kind of things. But all the people in this movie that would go on to be in other things, especially Lucas film stuff. I mean, my gosh, you know, you've got so many connections to Star Wars and Indiana Jones in this movie. It's almost like George Lucas watched Fourth ten from Navarone and in Spielberg did to say, hey, you know what, let's let's let's let's make a guy who's going to go on adventures being an archaeologist, and let's use people from this movie. Is what it felt like, right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

56:45 I mean we've already mentioned, like you know, Michael Byrne and Wolf Kayler are being you know, people that are that are brought back and you can see why. You know, they're scenes with Harrison Ford. It's crazy when you watch this and you kind of like this could be another indie movie, but you see so much of what would be in this movie that you know, without seeing this, you kind of assumed that he just jumps right into these other roles. But I mean, it's it's a lot more than that. But I don't know. I think seeing especially Harrison Ford in this role, I think in his first scene, like I mentioned in that office, there's so much Jack Ryan Yep coming out there. There's so much Indiana Jones coming out when he's in those battle scenes when they're on the run and he's trying to say, like, no, we need to get moving.

57:45 There's a lot of Indiana Jones beats in there, yea. And I think it's it's it's a mistake to assume that this didn't have some kind of influence on that. Even though it didn't have as much of the success, it's still a demonstrate should of what they could be. Yeah, it was funny when he was first introduced to the Germans when they got captured. I kept thinking, Nazis hate these gays, right right, you know, And then seeing him and Michael Byrne just performing against one another, you know, you just go ahead and see when they're going to be him, Indiana Jones and Vogel against each other later on in the Last Crusade. You know, you already see that connection between the two of them right there. Just it was so incredible, man, to see the early years of those two guys performing in a different movie. Just so fascinating. Man. Yeah, but no, this movie, you know, I mean, I know there was already a lot of movies before that were very similar to this, you know, Gun to Navrone, Dirty Dozen and those kind of things. But you know this would just go on to you know, make other movies that had this about a group of people who go on missions, secret missions for the military and stuff like that, you know, through the eighties and the nineties and movies that we get today too. You know, this is just another movie in that line of genre that just continued that formula that we all love.

59:04 And you know, definitely if you've not seen this movie, go go watch it. You really will enjoy it. And like like Scott said, you don't have to see Guns in Navaroon to see Fourth Ten from Avon because you know, they are completely two different movies. Even though it has some characters that are saying you don't need to see it. Definitely check this movie out. You really are going to do it. And you're going to see the birth of a lot of things that you're going to see him later year. Yeah, and just just keep in mind that just because you haven't heard about a movie as much since it has come out doesn't mean that it's not a quality movie. I mean, we're still hearing a lot about Howard the Duck, so but you know, I think when this came out, it wasn't successful, so likely the studios didn't want to promote it as much or you know, keep it going as much. But it's very timely to pick this up on its forty fifth anniversary. Um. Like you said, don't be don't be fooled by the fact that it hasn't been discussed very much or that it didn't seem like it was very successful, because it doesn't mean it's not a quality movie, which it absolutely is. Yeah. Absolutely, Scott, Where did you watch this then? So? I saw this on to be UM. I was also able to pick up a copy at my local library, UM, which there's a Criterion collection UM version of this that has a lot of extras. I wasn't able to pick that up. Um. But you know, if you're if you're a fan of these actors and you feel like adding to yourself, absolutely go and seek that out and and give it

1:00:38 give it a watch. Yeah. Absolutely, I watched it on t B as well. I'm definitely gonna go pick up a copy. This is a movie I don't own in my library, and you know, after watching it again to get ready for the podcast, I'm like, man, this is a good film. Why is this not in my collection, so I'm definitely gonna go pick up a copy because great cast, you know, a fun time to watch, and it's definitely a movie that I want to visit. There's there's no doubt about that for sure. Yeah, I'm glad we had a chance to cover it. Yeah, me too. So what do we have next on the Marquis Dave will Um You know, first, you know, let's I'm gonna thank all of our listeners, you know, thank you for joining us in our adventure through nineteen seventy eight. I had such a good time. I know we're gonna come back and do a little bit of a breakdown and talk about our seventy eight journey. But coming up next Jeff and Brad at a film buy, they're gonna be talking about James Mangold and Copland. And then Scott coming up for us along with Wayne Whitett, who is going to be joining us. We have our new limited series Strange New Wednesdays, where we're going to be discussing episodes of Strange New Worlds. I'm looking forward to that, Scott. I love that show. I can't wait to see it again. Yeah, I can't either. Man, it's gonna be a good time. The season one of Strange New World was in readable.

1:02:00 I cannot wait to dive into season two. Yep. And just taking a minute to thank everybody who's been with us for this ride. Um, this has been a great series tom to get into. I'm very glad that we did it because there's a lot of movies that I'm glad we had a chance to put back in the spotlight and someone that I've never discovered before. Um, it's always a lot of fun to talk with you, and I appreciate everybody that's that's along for this. We're certainly going to get into m recapping that and we're looking at what's in the works for some future series. If you join us first for a little bit more yep, all right.

1:02:40 If you want to leave a comment, discuss what's next, or even half suggestions, you can find us at www dot film by podcast dot com, a film by podcast at gmail dot com, a film by podcast on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Until our film real start rolling again, go out watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what we'll discover next. Thanks for joining us for our film at forty five all right, Thanks for you next time,