A Film at 45 - Halloween

0:00 Hello everyone, and welcome back to the year nineteen seventy eight and a Film buys limited series A film at forty five. I am David Burns and I'm Scott Hoffman, and we're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems we can't stop watching, even after forty five years after their debut. In this episode, we're honoring one of the greatest horror films of all time, John Carpenter's Halloween. Guys, you Gonna Get You. A Boogeyman is coming. Michael Meyers is the most dangerous patient I have ever Aisod was scared him. He can't kill the Boogeyman. Well, we aren't definitely celebrating another classic today in my personal favorite horror film of all times. But before we get into that, we have a special guest with us today. We have musician and horror model Chad Cochrane. Chad, welcome, Thank you, thank you. I appreciate this.

1:11 I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be a lot of fun. It is, and I'm really excited to have you. Um. I'm Chad has joined me in a few photo films that we have shot over the last few years. He's had the pleasure of portraying the shape and Jason Vorhees for me. Yep, and he's done. He's done some of the music for me, which is quite spectacular. I might da thank you. You're seeing each of those and you guys do an amazing job with that. Those are thank you fantastic. It's Chad. He brings that presence. Man, It's it's easy to photo somebody who knows what they're doing. Yep, Channel in two. My sick mind. Hey, whatever works, it's what I want to say. All right, Well, Scott and Chad, let's talk about the night he came home. At one time it was going to be called The Babysitter Murders, but it would quickly be changed into the name that would start the slasher genre that we know today. Scott, I'm sure everybody in this road has probably seen this movie or knows about this movie. But just in case they are, Chuck Nolan on the Island and Castaway, how would you describe this movie to somebody? Well, it's really interesting because when I was coming up with how to kind of talk about it, it was very tempting to mention Michael Myers, to mention the characters so iconic to this kind of stuff, So trying to step back and talk about the movie in general for somebody who's never heard of that, we don't want to kind of have that association. I would say death has come back to the little town of

2:46 Haddonfield, Illinois on Halloween Night. It's been several years since a brittle murder shook up their quiet streets when a boy with a vacant expression killed his sister in cold blood after spending his life institutionalized. The escapes and finds his way home him to continue his rampage, the other one standing his way, or the doctor who tried to keep him contained, and a babysitter left to defend herself and the kids in her care. All of this takes place on one fateful night that gives a new face to horror and a new name to dread, and a tiny independent movie that becomes that became the godfather of all slasher movies. It's time to go back where it all began with the original Halloween. Good good job, ched. Do you remember seeing this for the first time? Gosh, when I was younger, I remember seeing bits and pieces of it on TV, and I was kind of a late bloomer. I was all about Jason Borhi's growing up and was watching all those and didn't know that much about Halloween other than it existed. And then I got to late high school in early college and I sat down and finally paid attention to it as I was getting into film school stuff. And then I was like, oh, yeah, this is this is why. This was done amazingly and it was the first one and it set the tone and many could not follow it what it did. Yeah, they tried, but they didn't. No.

4:06 No, yeah, Scott, what about you do you remember seeing this for the first time. I'm right there with Chad. I was a late bloomer. I was introduced to this in my Sun Coast days. Believe that, um, it really wasn't in my radar. I was a nightmare in Elm Street Guy and I knew of it, but didn't really have any kind of reason to watch it until there was some kind of because we couldn't watch it in store obviously, um, some kind of party something that where you know, everybody's sitting down to watch Halloween, and I could automatically see why it was a classic. It's it was a lot of fun to watch, especially with a crowd that's already seen it for a long time. But to be the new guy that had never seen a bore it was a great experience.

4:54 Yeah, absolutely for me. It was a little bit later too, Um Friday the thirteenth. The original was always my first raided horror movie that I had seen, which was my introduction to horror movies. But I saw Halloween I would probably say late eighties, maybe early nineties, and as soon as I saw it, I knew that was gonna be my favorite horror film of all times, and sure enough, it still holds to this day as my favorite. I mean, as soon as the movie starts, you get the incredible music by John Carpenter, and we'll talk about that a little bit later when we talk about the score. But as soon as you hear that music, you know what you're in for. I mean, it just sets the mood immediately, right, Yeah. And I mean, so you open on a completely black screen with the credits that start slowly and then the Jack Lanard kind of like flickering in the side. Obviously we'll talk about the score later, Yeah, but I bring that up because you know, for me and Chat, I would be interested to hear. You know, I had already grown up with Nightmare on Ums and a lot of the slasher genre was kind of own at that point, so it was a lot of in your face kind of thing about like ratching it up to the bigger kill. But then with Halloween, it was atmosphere absolutely darkness. It was silence. It was long shots of the shape, not something that in your face or kind of wearing an iconic mask of you already kind of used to so it was very different, oppressive fresh air. Yeah, yeah, definitely that once I

6:26 finally turned back because I think the movie I grew up on was Friday the Thirteenth, part six. They got me into all the slasher genre and stuff, And then I went back and watched Halloween, and I was like, where when did they lose that? Like the atmosphere of the brooding that everything was focused on gore. It seemed like in the later eighties, how nasty can we make this and get shock value from that instead of focusing more on like the filmmaking aspects of the dark foreboding, Like when they did that shot of him, that face just appearing in the darkness, perfect, just stunning. Yeah, it was just just a masterpiece of filmmaking and then using the steadicams to hurry up because they only had twenty days and things like that.

7:10 Yeah, it's great. I think this this was this the first movie that used a steadicam. Was this the introduction? I not sure if it was the first, but it had to be pretty early. It was pretty close if it wasn't, because as if for anybody who's seen it, you know, it opens up on that POV of a six year old Michael. You know, you don't see six year old Michael, you just see the POV until it later on. But um, you just follow his POV all the way through the house, you know, until he kills his sister, you know, and then when he comes out of the house, you get that really cool what I call a posing shot where you know, the father rips off the mask and then the camera just slowly pulls back and like nobody's moving.

7:50 It's just a complete pose. I love that shot, I really really do. And they recaptured it with Halloween Kills. When they recaptured Michael in that flashback scene, you remember that. I loved how they recapture that because it was such a good throwback to the original. Yeah, definitely. So well, before we really get moved on to talk about the movie more in depth, because I know we all have a lot to talk about, let's talk a little bit about the cast itself. Let's talk about the scream queen herself, the one who started it all, the one that everybody has to live up to when they're making a horror film, And of course that's Jamie Lee Curtis, who plays Laurie Strode. Incredible actress. Very early in her career. I know, she did some television work right before this, so this was like her introduction into motion pictures. And we all know she had a very famous mother, right exactly. Yeah, so you know, she herself had a little bit to live up to because of what her mother had done on the big screen. And I think she pulled her off easily.

8:54 Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, I'm not really familiar with a lot of them the horror genre that kind of preceded this, but her character was very refreshing because it was somebody who was kind of standing up and fighting back, not necessarily you know, yeah, just throwing their hands up and taking yeah, fighting back. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and she had a mission. She had a mission of protecting those kids and kind of offending herself. And she was a very smart character, so to have her kind of kick that off as you know, terms like scream queen and final Girl, things like that. Um, I think she really set a stage for a lot of those it came to follow without a doubt.

9:39 Yeah, yeah, definitely, And she pulled off that mouseie awkward and social situations but still tough. Yeah, tough leading lady when it mattered. Yeah, you didn't get that kind of character development later after this one. You cared about who he was after in the first movie. Later on a lot of the Friday the thirteenth, here's the fodder for this exact place. That's kind of yeah, and these these mattered. Yeah, I was interested in every one of these characters, even the boyfriends that showed up. Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with that, you know. And even we have to talk about mister Donald Pleasance, who played doctor Loomis in this.

10:20 I don't see anybody else in the role except for Donald Pleasance. This was my introduction to this actor was Halloween. I didn't know much about him. I know he had a gigantic body of work before Halloween. Because a matter of fact, I don't think he really even wanted this part at first, because I know after I saw this, I saw him as Blowfield and you only live twice, So this is kind of my introduction to him. But when I look at it now, and we'll get to it and what ifs too, because I know they consider some other actors for doctor Loomis, no one else would have done a job, good enough job as he did. No way. I think he did a great job of having kind of that exactly the kind of presence that he needed to have, being the doctor, the only person that was really aware of what was going on. Obviously, he had been so close to Michael since six years old and had worked with every day since to try to figure and keep him from getting out because he's possible, right, It's kind of surprising that nobody else in his practice or anything else like that also knew and might kind of sound some alarms or something.

11:35 But having him be that kind of very focused, he had exactly the presence that he need. Yeah, he pulled off that. I tried to help this child I realized I couldn't. Now I got to keep him away from everybody in the terminal seriousness that went with that. And I remember one scene where he just commanded presence too, was when he was talking to the sheriff and he said, well, well, we're going to do that, and he basically he said, no, you're not. You're gonna do what I tell you to do. Yeah, and that's how it is. And the sheriff was taken aback by it, but then was like okay and just followed suit like he was that commanding presence in that role. Yeah, just like Scott said, I mean, Loomis knew the evil this guy was.

12:16 Nobody else was prepared to for this guy except for Loomis. I mean he I think he even mentioned when they're on the way to get him there at the beginning um, that they were going to take him to, you know, in front of the judge because basically they don't want him to get out, and they he told the nurse to how much was it? What was the medicine that he was going to get that they were going to give him Laura Zen or something like that, But like she said that that's going to put him like almost in a column. He's like, that's exactly what I want. He knew what was what was necessary and what they were kind of dealing with. Ye that it wasn't somebody who could with it was kind of interesting how many kind of how that path kind of meandered a little bit um with going to like the cemetery and things like that. Right, there were some moments where I was like, why are you doing this? You know that he's in that stolen car. At least quiet apb for that stolen car, because he's seen most of the movie by just like touring the town with it next to a school to stalk Tommy on his way out of school.

13:18 It's kind of like it's right there. Yeah, but I think that answered the creepiness of all of it. Yeah, you know, you get this guy who just is a master murderer wandering around here. Yeah, he totally oblivious. He's just got a one track mission, one track mind, and that's all that matters exactly. He's very much a machine. Yeah, when you think about it like that is Yeah. Well, let's talk about the couple of friends that where with Laurie Strode. Nancy Loomis, who played Annie. She had already worked with Carpenter in seventy six and Asault on Precinct thirteen. She would go on later do The Fall two with him, So she was already what I like about directors. If you get someone who worked really well with you, you're gonna keep pulling and project a project because that's just the way it works. You love working with them. You know they're talented, and you're gonna keep bringing them on, you know. Um. PJ Souls as Linda Um. She had worked with Branda Palma in Carrie in nineteen seventy six, and Carpenter wrote the role of Linda for PJ. Souls totally so Um and these two ladies and even even whole short, all three ladies, like you believed they were going to school together. Their chemistry was so good, like they're they're they're joking with one another, they're playing around.

14:33 You know, it was perfect. You felt they were in high school together and grew up together, giving each other a hard time. Especially they'd pick on Laurie. You could tell that they loved her, but they knew she was kind of a recluse and they everyone give her a tough way to go about it, and I thought they delivered that almost perfectly. Absolutely some scenes, yeah, I agree. And and all of their deaths I thought were fantastic, really really well done. And we'll get into those a little bit later once we get done with asking and stuff like that, because I know we're all like probably to talk about yeah, but yeah, I mean like talking about the friends. Like. It's also a way of kind of um pulling the strands that connect to this kind of a web of a neighborhood, right, yeah, so and so is it this house working? They live down the street, they have to drive each other around, but you get those kind of connections which really comes back together when you start seeing them looking at a window across the street to see like what's going seeing Michael carry any into the house and things like that. That was that was a very smart thing to do to kind of establish the neighborhood first, have little moments of men in different places, but still make it like, um, it's almost kind of like mapping the path that kids are going to take when they're drinking.

15:50 Yep. And you know, we know this takes place in Haddonfield, but the way this was made, the way this is directed, this could happen any small town. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things, like it doesn't. I mean, there's a lot of seventies things about it, but um, when I first saw it, it didn't scream seventies. No, I it seemed like it. You know, it's it's dated because it's late seventies, early eighties, But it doesn't. It doesn't take it back to that time, and it takes you brings it into moments that you can relate to in your own heard. Yeah, absolutely, I agree. Um, well, we have Charles Feiffer's who plays Sheriff Brackett. Um, he was in assault Precinct thirteen two with Carpenter and would follow him along in the fog and escape from New York. Um. I thought he did a pretty good job. I still don't understand why he didn't smell the pot when the window rolled down. I mean, come on, why they pull up to Dad, Why do you have to visit that scene of the crime of that hardware store? You driven on take a hard left? Now? Exactly why did that not? I don't know. I just play it off with, oh, sorry, we didn't want to bother you. Dad. You were working like right, you had so many options throughout straight there. Hello, there's my dad. Get rid of the joint. Wait a second, I'm gonna talk to him from the driver's seat, so he has to come closer to the window. Yeah. Um. And then of course we have the Shape himself. Um. I know. It was played by several people,

17:25 mainly by Nick Castle Um who was walking around as Michael Myers but also known as the Shape. Tony Moran played unmasked Michael when Laurie ripped it off of him, got the brief glimpse of his face. Um. I believe even Deborah Hill played the Shape in one shot. Oh really, Yeah, it's the It's the shot when Tommy looks out the window for the first time it looks across the street and you see Michael just standing there next to the house. That is Debor Hill. I'll be daring. Just they had, hey, we need this one more shot. Yeah, Nix gone, could you just put this on quick? Exactly? Yeah. I think it was something like that. I don't know all the details, but yeah, it was similar to that. Nick wasn't around and they needed somebody to don in the outfit, and it was such a distant shot that you really put the counter exactly, which I thought that was kind of cool. So it's cool.

18:19 I mean, Debort even used her hand as the six year old Michael when she was stabbing oh, his sister. That was that was Deborath's hand because they didn't have the the the young actor for that for those scenes. Yeah, so I thought that was really neat. Ye. Well, it's interesting how that's kind of consistent, Like I never would have picked up on that, Yeah, by looking at the scenes, right, you wouldn't. If you wouldn't, this kind of that consistent kind of thing. And it's it's more than just kind of stand there and look metting. Yeah, and see this is this is one of the things that I think is left Hollywood the independent market still has. It is the fact that like so many people and and and Scott you and I talked about this with Tom Savini, with George Romero. You have so many people who were filling in for two, three, four, five different roles because the budget so small that you just have people just wanting to chip in to do other parts, right, you know, and I you know, big Hollywood movies just don't do that because you know, they just pay one hundreds and thousands of people to be there to do it. But these small independent films like Halloween, you know, I think that's what makes them even more special. Yeah, because they're doing a lot with very little. Yeah, and they have to be engineers about it, right and and but they're also more passionate at that level. I would think. I think sometimes when you get to these oh any more billion dollars stuff, it's like there's so much money tied up into it. I don't know, I think it's lost some of the like the passion about it.

19:42 I completely at their point. It's too much a studio wanting to turn a profit at that level. Yep. Ye, well, it adds more to the appreciate it afterward, second or third viewing, No, when went into it, and it's you know, I've said it before, it's not about hiding the wires. It's making people exactly Scott Yea and things like this. When you see the links that they had to go to to get that done, it's not like it's like, oh, yeah, now I can see that, I can see you know, the part sticking out of the wire that's kind of pulling this thing or whatever. It still stays with you that but it just gives you another a print. Yeah, and it's just great because that inspires other, especially independent ones, to follow a suit with that. Right, it's not just kind of like picking up on those gags that they've done before, but also I want to be in that kind of where I'm able to come up with things, lead on the fly, engineer things from the beginning. But all say, right, yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, it's at that level. I remember when I was going to school for this stuff. These were the movies that inspired me, the early Star Wars because he was seating his pants, getting a lot of that done, things like that, and especially this movie where he probably overpromised I think I'll do it in twenty days and I'll give you a soundtrack three like yourself, right as wow, And and he pulled it off, but I know he had to be just under tremendous pressure the whole Oh there's no doubt, no doubt. Yeah, somebody handing you that might suppose it three hundred

21:15 and thirty thousand dollars. I think it was the budget. Yeah, I think pleasant right yeah, um, but yeah, let's go ahead and talk about the director. Um, you know, we have to talk about him because of what the legend that man is. And of course it's John Carpenter that we're talking about, you know, Scott, you and I talked about George Romero last time being the father of zombies. Can we say Carpenters the father of flasher films? I think we can. I think it's fascinating that he's so much. He is absolutely what he's what he's done is to explore the use of atmosphere, the use of tests of silence, the use of establishing a character from before getting into the scary. But I think we see again in the Thing, right yeah, and in a lot of his other I think he absolutely kickstarted what somebody can do with the slasher movie. I think he kicked off by giving that kind of depth to it, Yeah, because it sets it apart from things that may have come before. Oh there's the maniac that's coming after somebody the first time. So when we I think the slasher as a character, right yeah, when we had you know, in the eighties, the three names that you would assume slashers, it's Freddy Kruer's and before that it was kind of like, oh have you seen but not a Caroline and has its own kind of outside of that. Yeah, I think it was a masterful creation of this kind of genre and what it is. Yeah, he kind of took some documentary I was watching just last

22:48 night about it. He kind of took that it was always castles and Dracula and werewolves and Transylvania a lot of the time. Throughout the Fifth Arm, you still had invasion of bodies atchers and stuff. But the way they were describing it, and I'm not totally sure, but it sounds like a lot of the things were your typical castles and vampires things at the time, And he took scary stories, put them in your front yard and put them right in your living room. Yeah, like he made your own house scary. And yeah, and and that I don't think that had been really tried before. I guess Psycho was in a hotel. But it's just like, this is your neighborhood, this is happening in This is a Midwest town where a majority of the country is. And yeah, um there was an interesting thing that I saw about uh Ciskel and Ebert. How um So when Jean first saw it at the local theater, was so scared that he took a cab home. It was just a couple of blocks away from the movie theater.

23:51 Wow. When he got home, he went to the shower and pulled the curtain back to see if you was there. It's kind of like up in the next door. Yeah right, Yeah, So much of the movie is that just kind of like looking out the window, looking across the street, looking behind the bush, looking at the guy's shoulder, like, yeah, they made a shoulder scary. It goes back to what you said Scott earlier about you know, Carpenter is this minimalist when it comes to his cinematography and his lighting. You know, I know they didn't have a big budget, so they didn't have a big budget for the lighting, but that worked in their favor in Halloween, you know, you get these really dark shadows, and what I loved about that too, and a lot of the newer horror movies, I think they're they're lighting is just sometimes too bright or it's too dark. I like that that bluish tent that we always got in like the seventies, you know what I'm talking about, And Halloween had that, but you had those dark shadows where you just barely get that light. In what Chad talked about where I think it was Chad with the shot where Michael's face just comes out of the shadows. Oh, it's perfect. You know they did that with a dimmer switch. You know, he just comes out of the shadow and they just dimmed. I mean they brightened the light a little bit just so his face would appear. That was a brilliant shot. Yeah, yeah, and just by using lighting and darkness they made something that much earier. A white face appearing in the middle of a dark doorway. Yeah, that was great. That's crazy. But what I like about Carpenter too

25:22 is did you guys know he grew up in Bowling Green, Kentucky. No? Yeah, I didn't know. There's so many from California and a lot of that time that you just assume always probably from Hollywood. No, he's he's one of us from this area, you know, Kentucky. Wow, that kind of area, and one of us. His father was a professor at Western Kentucky University. He's ahead of the music department, so we can see where Carpenter got his talent for the music. He would go on to USC Film School, which is I did not know he had won an Academy Award for Best Short Subject in nineteen seventy for the Resurrection of Bronco. Billy did not know that, so enjoying my research, it's like, oh, congratulations, Carper, you deserve more than one, but hey, I'm glad you got one. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, how he speaking of the Kentucky connection, the fact that the film credits the Bowling Green Philharmonic Orchestra, even though I saw that's right last night, and I was wondering about that, okay, and just like it's another level of death, knowing that he composed the theme and so much of this is music, Like the opening credits are scary. Oh yeah, it's just a blinking pumpkin of words. I know, that ticking. It's almost like a stopwatch kind of thing, or a metronome on acid like it for it forces you. It forces you to come to the edge of your feet because it gets your heart pumping. Just that music. You know, let's go ahead and talk a little bit about it. You know. Um, this movie was shown to some of the

26:52 executives without that music, and they were weird, like, oh man, we've got we've got a disaster on our hands. You know this, this is not good at all. And then he added that music, which we know today and love today. Anybody who hears it knows exactly where it's from. Um, turn that movie completely around. It's just like Jaws. Yeah, I remember, I remember when Richard Dreyfus showed a scene of Jaws one time. It's some kind of ceremony, and they did it without the music, and you're like, wow, this is boring. But as soon as they added John Williams score, it was a completely different film. And this is exactly the same way. You know, without Carpenter's score, this would probably not be nearly as scary as it is. But with that score, it's like, wow, it's the pacing of the C two. Right, yeah, oh, absolutely, What you're mentioning with Jaws is interesting. An interview where they were talking to Steven Spielberg, John william John invited Stephen to his home to hear the theme that he'd put together. H Spielberg thought he was joking because he was like, I don't get this of the context film, right, Yeah. Yeah. With this with Halloween, it's it's its own character and it very much kind of like makes you afraid of the muse, makes you afraid of the sound. Yeah, and uh, they're kind of an interesting parallel with the opening credits where you get a distant shut of the pumpkin that eventually zumes way in the same kind of thing happens with it

28:22 in complexity. UM welds in volume the same way that the movie itself does, and it's trying to kind of being and it makes you want kind of scoop closer to the screen or kind of like squint a little bit and look at a little bit closer as you're watching those to make the jump scares a lot more effective. Absolutely, definitely. UM. I realized when I was going to school for some of these things that largely I loved movies and making them, and I always had a camcorder going my kid and stuff and using my Godzilla toys in a fake city. I loved all that stuff. But I realized when I was taking film classes that more important to me than even the shot composition. And I realized how into the music I was, and that actually was eighty percent of my interest in movies at the time, and I didn't realize it, and I would hold in high regard all the composers from the movies. Like I realized I knew more about them than I did directors. And then I just thought, wow, I may have stepped into the wrong room. I don't know. I still finished it out, and I know I loved it. But something I learned last night digging around before we talked today was he learned from his dad on these two Tom drums that were given to him a beat that was in five four time. Oh okay, which when I was working on stuff that ended up an immense pain in the rear instead of four or four time. But I learned He said that

29:55 he learned that on like these Tom Tom drums, you play with your hands, and his dad was teaching him a beat and teaching named time signatures and gave him a weird one of five four a time. He translated that to piano and five four a time, and now we have the Halloween themes. Yeah, thanks dad, he said. He translated that, and he was very nonchalant about what he completed. I think he made a masterpiece. And oh he did. Yeah, but yeah, that's something he said and something I was watching last night and I just thought I had no idea. Yeah, that's that's something came from drums. Yeah, and translated to piano. Yeah, that's crazy, crazy, Hello, it started with Bungos really well.

30:40 Put the new spin on it. When you look at it now, it doesn't it does now it's like all of the now Sullers. I was kidding, but yeah, I was. I was very surprised to learn that. But I could see when you experiment with stuff why he would try. So He's like, there's sometimes when you're getting writer's block. I was like, I will take anything that sounds like it's got a hook at this point, and it took and it was great. I think that's one of the things that really impresses me so much is when a director stars in his movie but also does the music. I know he didn't start in this, but I'm just saying it's it's you've got to be a very talented individual for one to be a director to pull off a really well directed film, But when a director puts himself in front of the camera as he's directing, is even harder. But to also do the music on which it kind of goes hand in hand, I guess because you know the pacing of the film, you know what you want, Because sometimes it might be hard to explain that to somebody. But for a director to be able to pull off other jobs that are just as complicated as directing is really shows the impressiveness that John Carpenter has.

31:47 Yeah. When I first learned not only did he write and direct it, that he composed of music, I was like, that is one talented man, yeah, out there that can pull all this off and a short amount of time. Too crazy. Yeah, yeah, I know. And you're going back to what Scott was talking about, you know, the pacing of the film, and you know, the editing of the film and stuff like that. And I'll go ahead and say it. One of my favorite scenes in this movie is when Jamie has fallen down the steps. She's running out of the house. Michael is getting out, is coming after her. She races across the street, starts pounding on the door to get in. She's trying to get the keys, She's trying to yell at the kids to wake them up to unlock the door, all the meanwhile Michael slowly making his way towards her. And then music is just top notch. Right there, If you are not on the edge of your feet, there is something wrong with you right there. Yeah, that that whole moment that's captured musically and visually where she's pounding on that door and it's getting closer and closer and nothing is changing in front of her. Yeah, and it's it's it is the nerve wracking. It is. I don't care acting, the music, the directing, the lighting. It was just brilliant. I don't care how many times I see that scene. I'm still like, oh my god, go open the door. I feel like, isn't that one of the first times that we start to get that kind of um, that kind of heartbeat m hm and liked oh the low the low base Yeah, yeah, yeah, which I mean it feels like that's kind of like that's Ryan a level.

33:22 Yeah, getting it is that sense of urgency, like go go go go go Ye there's yeah. All right, so let's take a break. When we get back, let's get into some of our favorites, the best kills, the best Loomis moments, and the favorite use of this thing when we come back. All Right, I'm dating the host of the docu Base seventy seven podcast. We talk about everything from Anthrax to the Muppets to West Side Story. All Right, boys, buckle up, because we have hit the bottom of the barrel because he slaughters all the Tuscan raiders. The fact that she stays by his side, that tells me everything I need to know about these women that write letters to serial killers in prison. You know it makes it made sense? You know Moby Young Sad always dumped Tim. That was the song. You know when you listen, Tim, did you have the volume on? The witches are definitely much more nightmare fuel. But the fact that they look like the Texas Chainsaw centerfolds um um. If jancof Thatt is so awesome and he's hired to be cloned, why the hell isn't he doing the job? He like, my client's getting impatient. What you slack ass mother? Whyon't you do it? You know you're just check us out on Apple podcast, good Pods, pod Bean or wherever you get your podcasts.

34:46 Now, Jeff, you know I love my extras and my bonus features. Now, are you ready to offer some to our listeners? Absolutely, Brad. That's why we've launched the film by Patreon. Starting for as little as three dollars, you can become a production assistant to receive a film by merchandise and gain access to our exclusive content. That's right. Each month we'll be offering up everything from episodes about our favorite actors to audio commentaries of our favorite and not so favorite movies. And for you fans of the familiar, we've got a nice surprise, right Jeff, that's right, brad Our Patreon is the only place you'll get access to the lost nineteen eighty six episodes. We're covering twenty more movies from nineteen eighty six, and we've got some of our favorite guests joining in. Now you mentioned merchandise stickers, t shirts, our new color changing stadium cups exclusive to the Patreon. So join today and get in on all the great bonus content. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about some of our favorite kills in this movie. Chet, Well your favorite killing this one? I actually have two tied. I think one might surprise you a little bit. And I think the most shocking one that he did was that scene where you see from him holding that dog and choking it out, Because how many movies ever showed a doll getting he In fact,

36:20 I learned watching it again he killed two dogs. Yeah he did. Movie he did, and I just thought, Wow, you don't see that anymore sense before. He was one of the few to just Michael does not discriminate. I don't care who you are if you're in my way. If you die, you die. And I just thought him taking out a dog like that was eerie. And then, of course the other one I thought was right up there with it was hitting somebody so hard with a butcher knife that it pens them to the door and stand back and look at him. That's just that was brutality. The iconic shot. Yeah, that's where you get the first nod of my first slowly moving his head to look at his masterpiece.

37:05 You know that he pinned to the law. I couldn't agree more than that one is my favorite. Kid even nailed that one. But going back to the dog, you know, I wouldn't have thought about that one. So that's a good Callum. Killing an animal is a no no in movies, especially then big no no, because that pulls your audience out there. Oh man, I hate you for killing an animal. But it added so much more to the depth of Michael. The fact you're right, you're getting his way. I'm sorry you're done. And the way they filmed that seemed too Did you know that they had to like slow the camera down a little bit because basically they couldn't get it to look right, to make it look like the dog is like going limp because he's dead. They actually film that emotion like they were lowering the animal, like just dropping him, so you get that that where his leg looks like it's just going limp because he just got killed. I just think that was brilliant and how they filmed. Yeah, so the dog probably wasn't cooperating the way they wanted to see it because the dogs just trying to be put down or exactly yeah, he's freaking out.

38:05 Yeah yeah. And then they so like I guess what they call it overcranking or something to slow down the film so they could make it look like even though he's slowly lowering on, the dog's good. That's that's see that right, There is that inventive filmmaking at that level that you just don't get at the brain because you can just be like, oh, we'll do it in post put it in computer. Yeah. Yeah, it is, Well, it's very difficult, like a lot of people have stated that it's really hard to work with animals. Yeah, in that way, and it's a relief to hear that the dog wasn't hurt because it looked like it really was. He did yeah on that scene and then do a good job, Chad. You've got some great polls there, like the first mention of him hurting a dog and they don't even show it, they're just kind of liking and they have that dialogue where he says, oh, he must have been hungry.

38:51 I know, Yeah, you've had all day to drive around in this car and the dog like probably got frustrated at the drive through window because he's not saying anything and never mind drive through. But no, that one was a great one. And yeah, I mean the my I think the best killers bob Um. Yeah, not only that, you know, it says a lot about his strength, right, not only is he able to hold up another grown man, but you know, like you said, with the force to pin him to a wall and then for him to step back and kind of look at him side to side like the RCA dog. Yeah, like with that kind of like huh what is this? How about that?

39:35 Or almost kind of like evaluating work at an art gallery or something. Yeah, it goes back to like this is somebody that has like that that simple curiosity and is kind of looking through that not really even vicious murder. That's crazy. The whole Bob sequence, even when Bob's dead and Michael shows up with the sheet on him as a ghost. You know, that wh sequence was just not so well. As an audience, You're like, oh my god, that's not Bob. You know, Yeah, I love that, love it. Yeah, you have to really step back and appreciate the writing and the way they film things there because, like like we talked later on, in the later eighties, movies just got more and more gory, and that's where they spent the money on the blood and guts instead of this eerie setting that they pulled off. And yeah, and there's hard leading blood in this movie. There's a little bit. And Carpenter did that on purpose because he wanted this to be not a gory film. He wanted it to be you know, more you're thinking about it as an audience, because that pulls you into it more. You know a lot of more off screen stuff, and you know, and I appreciate that. You're right, Chad, there's nothing wrong with a good gory movie from time to time. I'm good with it. But when you pull off a movie like Halloween where you don't have that gore. I think it makes it even more, It makes it scarier, It makes it more important to me as a fan. Yeah, Scott, what was you said Bob was your favorite? Yeah? Okay, um, poor Annie? Um what I love about that scene when she gets killed

41:09 in the car? You know, Um, she goes she's singing, humming to herself because he's all excited. She goes to the garage, you getting the car on. The doors locked, so she goes back into the house to get the car key. Then she comes back and doesn't even pay attention. She doesn't even use the key to open the door. She just opens the door, doesn't realize oh wait a minute, I just something's wrong here. Yeah. Yeah, And then she gets into the car and then the windows are all steamed up, and then she's like, okay, something's weird now, and then she gets killed. I thought that scene was pretty neat. Yeah. Well, that's always that fear of the back seat. Yeah right, Yeah. Was that the first movie to do that in the car or is there something before that? You always heard the old horse story from the fifties, the hook arm that was hanging on the door when they left or something because they pulled away just some time. I know that story around cars, but it's as far as that kind of fear of the car.

42:04 I can't think of anything prior to this that something now, nothing that realizes it in that way, right, Yeah, and it doesn't in a different moment because that that is kind of like, well, when my car is in public, I gotta check. Yeah, when my car hasn't been someplace where I you know, I know everything's fine with it. It's not something I check. But then when it's in the garage, it should be pretty safe. You're you're right, can't you? By surprise? And there you go exactly. I thought it was kind of funny how she kind of goes cross eyed when she looks at the camera. She kind of crosses her eyes a little bit, then closes them, then opens them again, and then kind of falls slump. Yeah, not that seeing a dead body is interesting.

42:45 That that's what happened. Yeah, that whole sequence made me kind of wonder, like, how much butter did she spill on herself? So you're you're babysitting a kid, you spill something on yourself and oh lord, all right, well here's my reaction, strip down to my underpants right right, and a walk around half naked to go outside to the laundry room in the dark. I put it in a bag, say nope, get a big robe, and that's it for the rest of the night. Yeah, I agree, And that leads into the the what I like to call the Frankenstein moment when he's carrying her body out from the garage into the house and Tommy looks out and sees that I love that shot too. So I and now that you've mentioned that, I have to chime in with some things that you find out. What a piece of crap. I've been scaring friends and stuff growing up with Michael Myers stuff, because I became a big fan in college once I saw it, and it was a summertime, and I have a lot of younger cousins that were probably second, third, fourth grade at the time, and I was late high school, early college, and I of course had the blue coveralls and a mask and all that stuff in the basement from Halloween's and having fun, and that movie was on one ran of night in the summer, and I have a cousin who is a little terrified of Michael Myers with the white face. My whole family was in on it, like we were such awful people. And I literally across our front yard, carried my mother across the front yard so we could we were so bad he

44:20 was. He buried his face in his dead chest and stud with all like we were terrible, but we Horror movies have always been a big part of my life. I guess when I think about it, because that who does that? Right now? I know why you're so good in the photo films. I've been practiced scaring my cousins, which is terrible. They ever hear this, they'll hate on me even more for it. Yeah, But knowing that you've done both, knowing that you've been Jason, you've ben Michael, and both of them have that kind of like silent juggernaut kind of aspect. What's unique about trying to portray the shape trying to be a Michael? Hmmm?

45:01 I think you had to cap I worried more about his mannerisms than I did. I guess Jason's Jason, this kind of this hulking revenge beast. I've kind of always thought of him, whereas Michael was calm, cool and collected and and he's got he's got a target and that's what he's going to and he's he's very matter of fact. And one of the things I noticed you'll see some not as much maybe with Nick Castle in the early but maybe a little more in the laters, the way he walks around like a low robot almost, And I thought and Kills they captured that very well in those early scenes. He looked like a robot going down the street almost, and Nick Castle of course started that right. He didn't I don't think he did it all the time, but he did do it in the scenes where it mattered the most, like, hey, you've got to walk across two front yards for the scene, and so he I don't think he just walked.

45:52 I think he thought about what would Michael do here a little bit. They maybe early on he didn't know a whole lot. But I thought, after getting to play the part and stuff too, as soon as I pull the mask down and you're like, all right, we need you in the scene, I would try and snap into that moment and quit talking to people and just stare at him, and then I would, you know, walk with my arms straight up and down and not move holding that knife instead just those things I learned. I tried to mimic when when you would call to say, come on in here, it's your turn. Yeah, but I just tried to snap into into mode. It was fun. Yeah, there's there's absolutely that kind of menacing pace that he has, right, I know that, Like there's been some fairly recent percials where it shows that that monster that's kind of following the girl that's running through the end, she's just gonna like, oh, I have to just keep running because he walking, right, But there's that meaning behind the pace that's kind of like I don't have to hurry because eventually I'm going to get there. Right, eventually, I'm going to get this person. Why isn't this person running? It makes a lot more menacing, That's true. He that established that too, where he's not he wasn't chasing people running after them. He just okay, I'm going to follow him there, just determined they'll make a mistake. I'll catch him, don't worry. It's all good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's true. And yeah, I can attest for Chad on that when he donned the hockey mask for Jason, you know, he was this hawking beast and he pulled it off so well. And then when I asked him to play the shape in our next project, it was like he was a completely different person. You know, he did it so well of the mannerisms and a

47:24 like even Jeff said, it's like it can Chad pull off Michael because he did so well with Jason. I'm like, I trust Chad. He's really good with it. And that's so. And when when Jeff, oh, you did great. When Jeff saw the Halloween stuff, He's like, holy crap, Chad did pull it off. I'm like, yeah, he knows the mannerisms of both killers. So it's kind watched them too long. Yeah, it's way too young to be watching him when I started watching him. Yeah. Yeah, Well, there's another element to Michael and his presence. And if I'm using the term right, it's the sting right in. And I don't know if that's technically part of the composition, part of the score, or of or of a soundtrack sound effect, right. Yeah, So with that element in mind, Chad, what's your favorite sting moment? And when you say sting, this is like where the movie or the music just bang right in with something at that moment. Yeah right. It can be like a sudden twinge of music or a sudden sound effect or something like that that kind of punctuates Michael's appearance or is it. Gosh, there was a few of them in the movie. There's some good ones in it. Yeah, I gotta The only one that's coming to mind at this point is Carpenter put in one of those sting moments, the moment Annie died. Yeah, and that's eerie. I thought watching it again last night, I just thought, yeah, he waited for that moment, not when Michael like showed up, when she passed, is when that hit, And I just thought,

48:57 man, that's that's brutal. Yeah before what a choice there? Yeah, yeah, So I guess that's the first one that pops in my head, just the use of it there, not the typical always there kind of thing. It was she just died. Yeah, yeah, crazy Dave, what about you? So mine is probably one? Doesn't It doesn't follow a kill. It is when Tommy has fallen with the pumpkin and broke it. So he gets up and is walking away and just Michael just comes out of nowhere and grabs him with that sting music. Oh yeah, yeah. Yes, you know, you're like, whoa, because you weren't expecting that right there. No one would expect that moment right there, Michael is just out in the middle of the daylight and just grabs somebody. You don't expect that, so it gets me. It still gets me. I can't believe. Yeah, that is a fantastic when you're right, because then we don't have He's not hiding away at night, right he's out in the schoolyard and yeah at two pm. Yeah, and then he just follows Tommy like a creeper.

49:55 Yeah, true, Yeah, yeah, Well it's it's that's a that's a great moment. It's a lot of things. It's at balance of the every day because when you see Tommy at school, you're expecting like, oh, okay, we're getting backstory of Tommy and how he's bullied. Yeah, and as much as he loves Halloween nerd um. And then all of a sudden it turns into that moment like just in case you forgot, this is this neighborhood being stalked by this guy, and it's the first time that Tommy sees stops and looks up at him. Yep, and they have this moment to just get her. So now this is going to be the boogeyman that he's watching for outside his window and creepily, you know, following him in the station wagon. Apparently, Tommy, I'd be looking around a little bit more and yeah, I was like, there's a car right there following you.

50:43 Can you know see it? How do you not feel that old seventy eight station wagon, giant steel thing right there? Right? That was only one scene. I was like, all right, they didn't know what to do. Yeah, yeah, he didn't put it into park, so he didn't get that uncle buck bang at the end of it. Right. For me, the one that I always appreciate the most and it kind of gets me from time to time when I'm first watching it is that opening sequence is spider crawl across the trunk the top. Oh, that's right, that's in fact, that's the first one where they hit it. Right. A stinging moment, isn't ye Right now. That's one of the reasons I wonder if it's part of score or a sound effect, because it sounds like it could be both. It sounds like it could the synthesizer that he's right in the rest in qui. But even in that moment, like it's it's total darkness, it's in the rain. You have to kind of like squint or you have to turn the brightness up a little bit to see all the people that you old that was erie in itself, just wandering around in the rain erie, right. Yeah, And it does a great slow job of kind of like setting that atmosphere. But then you know, you're not expecting anything. It's a great idea to have him running up the trunk because you've got that use of the red lights, you've got that use of you know, you've established there's a lot of people that are walking up wearing their you know, their gowns. Yep. And here's one of them that crawled up the top of a car. Um a really tense sequence because she gets grabbed on the one side to the open window, scurries to the other, loses all of her

52:16 you know, nurse dressing, and then that moment with the wrench that hits the window. Yeah, it's a brilliant scene. It is. Yeah, it's fantastic, And I love the fact that they revisited that with the same actress and Halloween kills. They did the exact same thing that sets respect for the classic loved it, loved it to the same effect. Yeah it still hits. Yeah it does absolutely. So what about best Loomis moments in this movie? Chad, you have one? Yeah, let's see. Oh for me was at the very end and when Laura asked him in her franticness at that point, was that the Boogeyman? And he says yes, as a matter of fact, it was, and he agrees when they're that was my favorite. I wrote that down. Yeah, I was like, I think that's my winner. And and speaking of this, is this the first time that we get the killer gets killed and then he disappears at the end like he's alive again? Is this the first movie that does that? This movie seems they have a lot of first, doesn't it? At least that we know of that we know of other than maybe the old Dracula stuff. Sorry, I didn't mean you cut it off here, No go, just the old Dracula stuff. He was always coming back. That's the only thing I could think of. Yeah, my class similar, Yeah, could be because I know we had leather Face one was at early seventies, but they didn't kill him. No, he was swinging around. He was swinging the chainstall around, right. So this one was you feel like the killer is dead and then you go to overlook the balcony. Oh never mind, he's gone.

53:47 He's alive. Yeah, which, you know the sequel coming right, Well, that's that's interesting. So did John Carpenter know there was going to be a sequel when he did this? I don't think so. In the documentary I was watching yesterday that I happen to find on YouTube is a pretty good one. I'll have to share it with you, guys. I was really interested in it. He said he didn't plan on anything coming afterwards because he didn't know it was going to be, of course, the success that it was. He thought it was a one and done and he'd get paid and move on and hoping for a few theaters to show it at that and he had no idea that it would become this ultimate classic. But yeah, yeah, yeah, and it did. And because he didn't direct this second one obviously, but he helped put it together, you know. So.

54:30 But you know, Scott, what about you any favorite Loomis moments? Well, kind of building on that a little bit, you know, the killer coming back or being gone, filling with a horror movie nowadays, and I'm kind of started with Fright the third, you're doing that kind of thing with the sequel in month to kind of maybe say to the studio, like, you know, we could bring him back and continue the whole thing and turn this mirror on Friday became But I think for something like this, it's a little bit of bringing the audience back, right because by not having that you're still a little afraid of it, when you'll be more inclined to go back and see see them get scared and then there's kind of a moment of comfort but all scared, sharing the excitement of kind of right. I think it's very smart and I'm glad that that's kind of a that's a trope we kind of fell into. It became kind of expected. I think with a lot of the slasher movies at the end it has yeah, but but to a really good effect. And the ones that last of the one all yeah.

55:25 And again we've talked about this before, Scott talking about when we talk about Jaws too. You know, this is a time period when sequels weren't really a thing. You know, Hollywood really just wasn't looking at sequels and stuff like that. You know. So this is just another one of those examples that started to change Hollywood as they hey, there's more money to be had, we let's do a sequel. Yeah, you know. So also to their detriment and some of it, yeah, some of it. Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree. Yeah. I'd say my favorite, one of my favorite Loomis moments is one that's a little out of character. M Here we have somebody who theoretically is like kind of like a child psychologist. Um, and he scares the kids off the porch, Get your ass out of there. I loved the voice that he uses, but then afterward that kind of smug grin that he has, and then get scared by the sheriff.

56:24 We got your back, let's watch out. Just remember there's a killer out there. So maybe you know, wonderful scene. Yes, good pick, good pick. So for me, I'm gonna go ahead and say the line. I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left, no reason, no a conscience, no understanding, and even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this six year old child with this blank, pale, emotionless face. And the blackest eyes, the Devil's eyes. I love that scene. Just that line in itself just sumped up whom Michael Myers and in that beginning scene that he delivers like that minded me of Jaws when Quent was talking about the USS Indianapolis. You remember that scene. Yeah, I kind of felt that similar performance where everybody just quieted down and heard this awful story, like, yeah, yeah, I got that vibe from it. I just wonder if I wonder if he was thinking, Quint, yeah, that's a good call. I didn't think about that, you know. Yeah, I like that. Even if he didn't, it worked out perfect because you're right, it does resemble that scene for sure. Yeah, just a little bit cool, all right, Scott, you got some more questions for us?

57:37 I like, yeah, so obviously, you know, Michael's presence changed the face of horror literally because it had that kind of the mask that we'd be coming back, Chad, what are your top three killer movie mess beyond Michael? Which is tricky because the case pace came first, correct, you know what? And that's true. And I was struggling to think about the masks and stuff, and I finally got some vorhees of course you got the iconic, right, and I've even debated tattoos of the hockey mask, so I'm a little obsessed. Um, I think we get a decent one later on that sticks and ghost Face and the screen Scream series, and then just one more. I was kind of struggling. I was thinking about maybe the Valentine or Pinhead, but that's not like a mask, I thought. The only other one that came to mind was Predator Um from eighty seven, because those they were wearing masks that looked eery. Even though it was an alien already, it still had a mask on. Yeah, so that that was That was the Jason and I think ghost Face were the two biggest ones that came came to mind for me. And those are probably fairly obvious and I'm not being very difficult here, but yeah, those those were the two that I thought. Those kept coming back. In fact, we just had a screen in the theaters screaming the theaters not long ago, right we didn't? Yeah?

58:58 Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, is that so there's another one coming into or did that already happen? It just came out, okay about a month ago, I think somewhere neighborhood. Yeah, Stream six. Yeah, it just came out theaters. Okay, right, I mean, don't worry about not pushing the envelope with an answers two of yours or two of mine? Right, Okay, Jason, you know, Jason changed the perception of hockey masks, Like, it'd be interesting to look at a time when that before that, when that wasn't associated with the horror movie, but it has actually used in sports. Yeah, let's see how much that's changed. Um. I think the ghost face mask is another one that's a great pull, but it owes so much too Halloween, and it does a lot of homage to Halloween with the you know, the rest of the outfit, the cloak and the work boots and all, but also having that kind of um, that stark expression like it's a face that has one fixed emotion in it.

59:54 UM that's completely silent and very iconic, like when you see that emerge out of the shadows. Um. It definitely owes UM. I really had a time with the third two, um, which is why did you ask this question? But there are so many that work in so many fantastic ways. There was one that I saw just kind of scanning through the hidcome before this, Um, that was using one of those translucent masks. If you're really to the Batman sixty six series, the false face kind of masks those things. I thought, Yeah, ridiculously cree it is disturbing. Yeah, just a little bit of clown paint on it, but otherwise it's translucent and you see your skin color through it and it creates this warp. Yeah.

1:00:35 Yeah, that's like, yeah, that's a kind of thing. But my third official one will probably be Doctor Decker's mask, which is kind of Ah, I didn't think about that one. That's kind of a deep cut, but um, the really small eyes, the really narrow eyes. Um, and I think it had like a basically a burlap sack with all the nuances too. But um, when I when I looked back at that, it made me think of the Scarecrow and the Animated Animated where they eventually Scarecrow a little. Yeah. With each of these, what I think they have in common is that it completely obscures the face. And we got kind of the flip side of that with Freddie, where you know, very expressive and all you can see how his face was acting things out. But that kind of um silent juggernaut um kind of thing and hiding the person's expression that is that is coming after you and you're desperate to stop them, but has like no emotion you can see or penetrate. Yeah, we're all going to be on top of one another when it comes to our top three, because we know Jason's going to be the one. I want to actually give Jason two of them because he had the sack over his head in the second one and I'm sorry, I thought that was creepy with a single eyehole, with a single eyehole, that was scary in itself. And then you get the hockey mask which came along in the third one. So I'm giving Jason two of those, which is I know, not really fair cheating, it's two different masks.

1:02:02 And yeah, and then of course I'm gonna agree with both of you on ghost Face. Uh, Scream revitalized the slasher genre, you know, because at that point it was dead and gone almost no pun intended. But um, you know, Wes Craven with h and Williamson brought back that that franchise, that that genre with Scream, So in ghost Face is fantastic. Scott, Yeah, you spoke a lot about there. You know how many nods it gives to Halloween. Uh and in itself. So absolutely ghost face for sure. So um, let's go. That's one more question here. I believe we've got uh, Scott, you came up with us, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Uh, Laurie is the godmother of scream queens, as we all know, Chad, what are the top three who followed in Jamie Lee's footsteps? Okay, yeah, I got some this so I thought, Um, of course Adrian King right, I'm still obsessed on the camp Killers things, right, so I know she was the first one. There's also Janet Lee that maybe can be maybe included in that since she was the first screamer in the Shower. I don't know, she didn't really do much. Yeah, yeah, and then um, I got two more that might be different since it's not the typical horror movie. But I've got Sigourney Weaver written down for the Aliens movies. That's a good call.

1:03:24 I was thinking about her. I will give that absolutely. Okay, Okay, I was thinking to her, and I just think it wasn't she didn't do multiple movies like this, But I thought Kate Capshaw and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom putting on like all these screaming scenes where she's got her hands in the bugs and they're falling all the time, and her scream throughout the movie. Thinking of it in that contact, it wasn't annoying, like it worked like she was always screaming throughout that And my wife mentioned that one. She's like, what about the Blonde Lady and Temple would do she was always screaming. I was like, you know what, You're right, and she nailed it, I thought. But for me, the two I guess would be Adrian King and Scourney Weaver. All right, fair enough, Scott, what about you? Um? It was it was tough, and I kind of feel the, you know, the spectral hand of Jeff Johnson being like, I'm waiting to hear and he's judging us, mister aunt may yea.

1:04:25 The three that I'm going to to mention um one is Heather langen Camp. Yes, from the Nightmare movies. Never going to cause some debate, no, but the the three that I think of for her in the series is the first, the third, Dream Warriors, and New Nightmare. Absolutely Nightmare Yep. Absolutely, she's she. She really, I think carried on that tradition that Jamie started of saying, this is somebody who is not inherently like um, you know, uh, John Conner's mom. She's not Sarah Connor. She's not somebody who you know, can stand up to this because she's built like a badass, somebody who's just in that situation and stands up to it and fights back against it. And I think one of my earliest horror movies that I saw was Dream Warriors, and that's what I appreciated so much about it is that you had her kind of inspiring and leaving these other kids to stand up to it, to this kind of evil that she couldn't fight. So I gotta give credit to her. My next is going to be the world's greatest eighties mom. D Wallace. Yes, I had that one. Thank you, Scott. I'm just going to go back to, you know, things like the Hills Have Eyes, the Howling Critters. But what the reason I wanted to pick her specifically was that mom role with Kujoe.

1:05:45 Yeah, and thinking about, you know, the situation that she's in, trapped in the car with her son and nowhere to go and you know, not screaming just for the effect of screaming, but like in different ways, the desperation for you know, yourself, protecting your son and being that horrible situation. But still like, you know, there's that moment where the screen the scream turns into a snarl and it's like, no, you're not going to get that kid, and I'm gonna scream through the fact that I'm gonna kick your little doggie butt and get out of this situation. Yep, that's a real good one. I always think et with her, and I consider all that he's done a lot of horror, and I thought I was the only one to go and pick her, so well down, Scott, you'll beat me to it. My third I had a hard time with because there are so many, but I wanted to go with Anya Taylor Joy last night and soho. I haven't seen the menu, but I'm thinking specifically of her in Split and that role specifically, even though I don't know that qualifies as horror as much as a thriller. Yeah, she clearly has the potential to carry on that tradition and to do these kind of things with a lot of range, you know, her and Split being kind of the defensive angle, but then in Last Night and Soho being that kind of a different angle.

1:07:09 I don't say it in that way so that I don't spoil it for somebody anyway, those are the three, Dave, What about you? So? My first one was Heather land camp because as Nancy from at Maynom Street. My second one is actually Nev Campbell from Scream playing Sydney. You know, she had quite a few screen movies that she did, and I thought she did fantast's job, but you know, almost filling in the shoes for Laurie Start for Jamie Lee Curtis, so you know, Jamie still had is the best. But you know, I thought Nev did a very good job at Sydney, and then you beat me to d Wallace. I thought she was fantastic and all the ones she did. She even followed up with if you guys remember the movie The Frighten Nurse. Oh yeah, she played the daughter in that, remember, and then she turned out to be something else, which I don't want to ruin it in case you've not seen the movie.

1:08:00 Um, I know a film by did a Jeff and I did a podcast on the frighteners for Peter Jackson. So if you haven't seen that chat, check that one definitely. But yeah, d Wallace is in that one and she did a great job. So yeah those are my three. Scott me get anything else? I got one more. And this is a little bit going, you know, all up to my Star Trek nerd friends. So if they weren't able to use Shatner's face, what other Trek crew member's face should have been used? Because I know at some point they had played around with using the Spock counterpart to it. M Chad, what do you think? I don't think it would have had the same scare to it.

1:08:40 I think because because that Shatner mask was, in fact in that documentary I was watching yesterday, Carpenter even said it looked nothing like total failure of her mask. And then when they painted it whiteen and did the orange hair on it, it was this basic, not unique at all face like I I just white expressionless. I don't know. I think if you put the spot shape and point ears on it or something, it wouldn't have worked. And I can't think of can't think of any of the old Star Trek masks that would have worked beyond that, I don't know, I really don't. I think if you put Spock there, we'd have been joking and making fun of Michael Mine. Yeah, I think so looking up to him as wow, look what they did. Yeah, right, Well, even even without the point of ears, you were so used to seeing his face and kind of that you know, the Lennar Animoy, very very stoic kind of face, it would have looked like Spock. Oh, and I think it raised a great point that this looks nothing like William Chatterer. It surprised me a lot to learn that that was him, especially when you think back to this kind of time period. Every mask had to look like somebody or something, so being a don Post mask, you're almost kind of drown into it a little bit like who is this supposed to be? Because he got off a shelf and it's you know, everything, and then had to be some kind of icon or character that was recognizable obviously, so that when you're going to treating

1:10:11 somebody can say, oh, you're Frankenstein, your calcula or whatever. So what is this thing that has no place in the natural world. It even has some kind of interesting contours to the face itself. Like kind of a Fred Flintstone kind of contour that comes down from the nose. That's kind of like that's not supposed to be there, but it makes it so unique. And just to know that, I think it's kind of funny that's it's William Shatner. I think if it was going to be anybody else, my pick would probably be doctor McCoy to Forrest Kelly, quit stealing my answer, Scott, Sorry, I got the second network plugged in. I guess I've said him in your notes before him. Yeah, I just I think it would be interesting to see that face with the same treatment leached out. I don't know what kind of expression it would because you wouldn't want to do that smarmie like well, I know, because I'm the doctor kind of phase. It would have to be something that's very stoic and very stern. Yeah, yep, I agree, that's what you had. Yeah, exactly what I had.

1:11:08 Steal stealing my answers left and right, Scott quit it. No love for the heavy set, Scottie from the movies, big right? Yeah? No, all right, Well, let's let's talk a little bit about the score, guys. I know we've mentioned it quite a bit uh here because it's very important to this movie. It's very important any movie. You know, we always talk about music can really make or break a movie in itself, and in this one, it definitely makes the movie. John Carpenter composed the music and chat, I believe you said it was three days, correct. Yeah, I don't know I did that. Just crazy to think about that he came up with that in three days. But just you know, the music throughout just put you on the edge of your seat, get your heart pumping. Um. You know, it does what the movie needs, it needs in usic to do. Absolutely agree. Yeah, and it's it's a simpler soundtrack, but it works perfectly. You can tell he didn't have a whole lot of time because there's there's not a whole lot of layers of instruments and things. In certain parts there's two or three a lot of the time maybe four, But it simplicity sells it. I think it works so well. The piano is the focus and when that theme comes on, you know we're about to go yeah and that, yeah, it was. I thought it was brilliant overall. Less is more. Yeah, it goes along with what Carpenter does. He does the simple cinematography, you know, and

1:12:41 I'm not saying simple, but you know what I mean. It's a simplistic, minimalist cinematography. You know. He does it with the lighting. He did it with the music too, and it all worked so brilliantly in this movie, all of it. Yeah, you know, um, but yeah, I mean, and he carried on. I believe his son helped compose. Him and his son teamed up for the last the newest free Halloween movies and it's fans fantastic. Yeah, you can. You can tell he had more time with it, oh eight twenty twenty one, and the bigger budget too, I'm sure. So Yeah, they were throwing a little more money at him and more time, and you can tell. And I just how awesome is it to him and his son worked on it together. It looks like him and his son are pretty close. H Cody is his name in it? Is it? Cody Carpenter? Yeah, that's that's so something, so absolutely, But you can't. You can't speak enough about the music of this movie. You can't. And anybody it's like it's like the Jaws and music. Anybody who hears this knows exactly where it's from Yep. The melody that he developed for it is timeless. Yeah, absolutely sure. All right, So, um any any what if Scott um? No? The only one I can think of is um. I read somewhere that um who was it? Christopher Lee? Yeah, and Peter Cushing? Yeah. Um that Lee apparently regretted the decision to turn it down. I wonder why. But

1:14:15 I think it would have been a much different kind of role because it is so well known. For not that Donald Pleasant wasn't well known, Yeah, but Christopher Lee had already been in the genre so much, so many different kinds of things like that, that hammer kind of decade. Yeah, it would have just taken that different tone it would have seen, I think, maybe a little less independent because it wouldn't have been so many, um, somewhat fresh faces. Yeah. And I think to a lot of us, you know, aside from us all thirteen, this would have been the first exposure to Donald Pleasants. M Yeah, I agree with that completely. I don't see Peter Cushing or Christopher Lee at all in the role of Donald Pleasants.

1:15:00 You know, I mentioned it earlier. I don't see anybody else but Donald Pleasance because he just did it so well, but I didn't think about it would make it seem like a bigger budget film. You are absolutely correct about that. If they had gotten Thelm. This made it still feel like that small independent film, which it would have been anyway, but it still gives it that vibe that Donald pleasant springs to the film. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think if you would have ended up with Lee or Cushing in it, which they're both brilliant and they're oh yeah, of course, I think that would have been more of the oh, look, Christopher Lee's doing this movie, and it would have taken away from the actual story and at that point you might as well put Vincent Price in there or something.

1:15:40 They're just gonna command the screen and you're not going to think about the movie like you would have. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's funny. And we'll just go on to go to quote some of the actors that were in this. But Donald pleasance. He stated that he didn't understand or like the script about Halloween. He said, I don't know why I'm in this movie, and I don't know who my character is. The only reason I'm doing this movie is because I am I have alimony to pay, and my daughter in England is in a rock and roll group and she said the music that you just did for Thought and Present theme is cool, which he was talking to Carpenter. So I thought that was pretty deep. Yeah, that's not a bad reason to get into it. And I've a lot of actors site that kind of thing, like, well, my kids are into it, so it's interesting that they kind of went that angle. I know that was Bigo Mortenson for Lord of the Rings. He didn't know truly what it was and what was being offered to him. His kids basically told him, if you don't do this, don't come home. It was kind of yeah, I saw something for that years ago, but he wasn't totally sure what was on the plate, and then when his kids told him what it was, he's like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this. That's funny. The only instant second thing of where I would ask an actor to just look a little bit more would have been tummy Lee Jones's tooth face and which one was that Batman forever? Yeah, I think so. I know he hadn't said something about like, well, my kids are really into it, so so I did it if they could have just given him a few episodes of Richard mull as two faced Harvey in the animated series. I think

1:17:16 that would have gotten a lot a lot more attraction for me. But yeah, anyway, it's it's funny how some of these big actors who fall into these small roles turn out to be the most iconic and epic roles that they ever did. I mean, look at Alec Ginnis with obi Wan Kenobe. You know the same thing. You know, he had this big body of work and didn't really want to do this obi Wan Kenobi, didn't know anything about it and just seem, you know, a science fiction movie, small budget. But look what it's done for him. If he only could see today what it's done, you know what how iconic he is known for Obi Wan Kenobi, Sat McDonald Pleantz's Doctor Loomis. It's just it's funny how some of these big actors has fall into these roles and they're huge full and clearly Donald liked it because he came back a few more times to play the role.

1:18:06 Um, you know, and it's so iconic for us that you know, they even had some might be him and Halloween Hills in that flashback scene so you know, we all love Loomis and we all love Donald plus there's no doubt about that. Yeah. So yeah, I mean you talk about what is. I can't imagine anybody other than Academy Award winner Jimmy the Curtis being Laurie. And I found a quote where she was talking to Collider in twenty eighteen about her return and who she saw Laurie being. In nineteen seventy eight, she said, Laurie isn't a badass. She's smart and she's survived, and in that she's badass. Her poking Michael with the hangar was just an instinct. Laurie was strong because she was smart. Education, I think gives you strength. It's not muscles, it's brains. It's tricky because we've turned to women, We've turned strong women into superhero women, and that isn't what makes women strong. We're about We're not talking about physical strength. We're talking about intel and while and all the beautiful things smart that makes smart women so dynamic. So I'm hoping to fight against becoming too much badass and keeping the integrity of her intelligence, intelligence that I've brought to this piece. I fought for that That's one of the things that I really appreciated in the twenty eighteen version that carried through. It was like she kind of did have a little bit of a Sarah Connor vibe. Yeah, and that she had like all these defenses and was training with weapons and whatnot, but not or she's just trying to be smart about it and protect her family. And I think that's one of the really cool things about her character Laurie in the nineteen seventy

1:19:38 eight version is that she's she's fighting back, and I think she's showing people that they can fight back in these kind of situations and defend themselves without knowing like karate or having telekinesis or anything else like that. So I think I think it's really well done. Yeah, absolutely really well, all right, let's go do the rewind. I know we've already mentioned some of our favorite scenes. Chad favorite scene from the movie, favorite scene. Gosh, um, there's of course, there's so many, it's it's hard to pick one. I am a big fan of um. We talked about it earlier. Laurie's trying to open the door, realizes she doesn't have the keys, and Michael is just slowly sauntering across the street, giving her a lot of time to think about it. And I think that's the first one that comes to mind that really stands out. And then there's one other scene and it probably didn't get talked too much about, and in seventy eight, I'm not sure how this affected audience is now it's kind of the norm, But I think back then when when Loomas pulls up and finds that mechanics truck on the side of the road, and then the hospital gowns hanging in the door and on the tree and stuff, and he realized Michael did this, and then that the camera pans out and see the guy dead land in the weeds, ye off the side, and I just thought that was a powerful We didn't show you what happened, but here's the aftermath kind of thing, And those those two scenes are probably what's stuck with me. Great choices, Great choices.

1:21:08 Scott m Annie in the kitchen, passing the door three times. So there's a moment when she's standing in front of an open door. She walks to the left and then you see him standing in that space. She walks to the right, and then he's gone, yeah, yeah, things like that were just great effect. And it's just kind of like is he or isn't he there? And where is he? There was always kind of where is the effect that they had in this one. Yeah, and here here's another example of Scott stealing my notes. Um see, I do it first though, that's my that's my method. But but yeah, I mean, just to go back to that, it just throughout the movie on how we're paying attention to a main character, We're paying attention to somebody and in the background, Michael appears and disappears unknown to the main character. You know. Another perfect example of that is when Loomis was talking to Sheriff Brackett and and you know, Louis is just looking around and Michael was in the station wagon right behind him and just goes and you know, as as as Louis turns to look in another direction, Michael goes the other direction, just right behind him.

1:22:11 Yea. You know, I love those kind of shots in this movie, and they did it so much. Even when Michael was behind the bush, he came out in front of the bush, you know, and Laurie saw him and then he went behind the bush. Even when he was in the car and they said, hey, speed kills, you know, and he slams on the brakes. You know. I just love all those kind of shots. That just adds to the atmosphere of this movie. That Speeds Killed moment sticks out, I think a lot, because if you're in that situation, because I think we've all done this when you're yelling at somebody in their car or something because they cut you off or something, and we're like, oh, nothing will happen if I scream at him, and then they slam the brakes. Yeah, sudden, those three girls standing on the sidewalk went silent, yep yep, like when he did that, And I thought that was a strong moment. Yeah, that's a good one. It was, especially since he kind of sits there in hovers Yeah, kind of like waiting for what's he going to do next? Right, do you have no idea? Then he shows up again? Yeah? Crazy, and you mentioning that, um that idea of where Louis is looking the wrong way on the car drives past him. I'm kind of surprised that Michael Myers Hide and Seek Champion of nineteen seventy eight sooner, like, if if Louis is this oblivious, and he's this good at like, you know, sneaking around. I don't know what kind of like invisitive invisibility powers that he has, but he must have been just waiting for the right moment. He was the master of that. There's no doubt about it. All right, Well, let's talk

1:23:42 about the impact of this movie. Um, we've already mentioned it. You know, this movie is the created the slasher genre. Um. You know, we get Fright of the thirteenth because of Halloween, you know, and they've even said that because of the success of Halloween, that's why, you know they did Friday the thirteen. So we have so much to think for John Carpenter and his group who created this movie. Because just like you, Chaid, I'm a big Jason Vorhees fan. Um, we wouldn't have got that, that saga, that franchise if we didn't have this, I agree. Yeah, And even Cunningham came right out and said I saw the success of Halloween and I wanted to jump in. Yeah. Yeah, he straight up says it. That's can't It's good. You can't blame him for that, that's for sure, you know. And then just what all that has done throughout the years. I mean, you've got Friday the thirteenth, You've got a Nightmare, Elm Street, You've got Scream. You know, so many things came from Halloween, huge impact and John Carpenter himself for crying out loud. You know, we didn't even mention it, but in this movie they're watching. Um, the original of the Thing was The Thing from the Other World. Yeah. Yeah, which he goes and directs the Thing, uh, you know in the eighties, which turned out to be a phenomenon moving itself. You know, he would go on to do a big Trouble in Little China, which we talked about in the limited series of nineteen eighty six, you know, Escape from New York Vampires. Um. You know, the list goes on and on with what John Carpenter in the impact he

1:25:15 had with Hollywood. Yeah, but he was legend for sure. Thinking about the other movie they show, Um, I wonder if there's another universe where we have John Carpenter's Ripping Planet. Oh yeah, i'd be interesting musae that would be very interesting to study. Kurt Wressell, that would have been awesome cool. Yeah, but in the music. You know, again, let's talk about the impact that has had on horror music, because you know, you get a lot of generic stuff and not to put it down the music that came before this for horror movies, you don't put a lot of thought into that kind of stuff. When you're making a horror movie, you're making a low budget. But John Carpenter put so much into that that it turned that movie into completely something else that will never be forgotten. It has never been forgotten. Yeah, yeah, awesome. The music he put in there made its stand out more than I think it gets credit for. Absolutely.

1:26:16 Yeah, I sure did a right to say. It's true that he had like a not only we're getting like a title character for a franchise of a horror franchise. Let just be repetitive there, but it gives a character a theme song too, right. We saw that with you know, Jason had his own with the kind of uh, I'm not going to try to replicate it, but you know what I'm talking about, Yeah, yeah, right right, and the Nightmare on the Street having its own kind of theme. Yeah, it does to hear those notes and you know what's coming. Yeah, absolutely, And it's just again, thanks John Carpenter and thanks Halloween. Forgiving. Is this the stuff that we had in the eighties and on?

1:26:58 Yeah, you know, because they wouldn't have it with out, you know for sure? Chad, where do you watch this movie yet? With the original Halloween? Well? Yeah, last night my living room? Nice? But where where do I watch it? For? What? Services and things? So, unbeknownst to me, my DVD copy of Halloween that I bought in twenty eighteen to have my now wife watch it before we went to the new one got lost in the move and I didn't have it. So I looked for it all over the house last night to pop it in and had to go to Prime to rent and watch it. But I was very shocked. I looked on Netflix and some other services, it wasn't there. The newer ones, four or five, whatever you want from the eighties it's there, but not the original. So I only found it on Prime outside of having a physical copy of it? All right, Scott, what about you?

1:27:48 Yeah, I just I'm in a similar kind of boat. I think I'd say, you know, if you have the means and the opportunity, definitely get on a physical media because this is probably when you're going to be real watching at some point absolutely if you're going digital obviously, you know, paying for it on Prime is a good idea so that you then have it. I had to similarly resort to red Box where it was playing for free with ads, which I it's a different experience, So maybe just buy it on physical media or buy it on private. Yeah. I've had so many versions of Halloween on DVD because I kept buying it when I kept bringing out anniversaries. So I could probably give you both one and I'll still be okay to be honest with you, But this is one of those movies that I watched every Halloween. You know, it's it's you know, it just goes hand in hand with the October season because I cannot get through without watching it, you know. So I own own a few physical copies of this movie.

1:28:46 All right, Well, um, Chad, thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. It has been exactly what I thought it would be a blast. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, thank you guys for having me. This was absolutely fun. I grew up well later in life discovered this movie and I've loved it sense and in the same way, every October it finds its way onto my screen. Absolutely, so I know you do a lot of music jetor is there anywhere anybody can find your music or anything like that? Well, right now on your movie. Oh yeah, for the soundtrack for sure, I will probably shock you. Other than the soundtrack kind of stuff I like to do on keyboards, Eye Front a death metal band, oh tell us more also I do so. I sing for a group called Dysomnia and still based in Ohio, so I play up there when I come back and visit. We're actually playing on April fifteenth, Yeah, and in Middletown. But yeah, I've still I've been in metal bands since around the year two thousand. It's been something hard for me to walk away. I just like the harder, aggressive, fun, headbanger music, and that led me into movie soundtracks, and I took piano lessons as a kid, and just music has always been a big part of my life.

1:29:59 So the soundtrack thing came more so when I got into going to school for learning the cameras and those kind of things, and then I realized how important music was. And then the digital age was on us, and my keyboard could be almost anything at this point. Yeah, so then yeah, so I'm either headbanging or writing soundtracks. That's awesome. My love it when you do a really good job, you know, because I was blown away when you gave me the score. I was like, wow, that was very impressive. So I'm glad you're happy with it. I hated that it took so long. I had so many things going on and hurricane and shows right before the date. That's like, of course it does. Yeah, yeah, you did, good man. I can't wait to hear your next one because we've got another project we're doing with mister Vorhees this summer, so we'll be looking forward to that in the fall. Yes, all right, Well, I want to thank all of our listeners. If you want to answer some of the questions we ask in the podcast, go leave a comment.

1:31:00 You know, what is your favorite horror series or what is your favorite scene in Halloween. We'd love to hear from you. So coming up next for a film by is James Gunn super Scott. What's up next for us? Next thing we're gonna do is step into the animated world with Ralph Backshee's Lord of the Rings. Awesome. Can't wait to talk to that. So if you want to leave a comment, discuss what's next or even half suggestions. You can find us at www dot a film by podcast dot com, a film by podcast at gmail dot com, a film by podcast on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Until our film real start rolling again, go out, watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you will discover next. Thanks everyone, Thanks